PDA

View Full Version : Books


BlueRaiderFan
06-29-2008, 06:52 PM
Any good books on what is hatching and when on the various rivers and in the Smokies?

waterwolf
06-29-2008, 07:28 PM
No need for a book with regards to the tailwaters.

Few sulfurs left on the Clinch, then midges for the rest of the summer.

Holston, caddis are done and midges are all that are to remain.

South Holston, sulfurs will trickle on for a few more weeks then midges.

It would be the shortest book in the world for hatches on the taliwaters.

In the Mtns everything is just about done, maybe a few cahills but fish attractor dries and you will be fine.

TroutAssassin
06-29-2008, 09:55 PM
Heres some helpful links that have hatch charts for the smokies and some tailwaters. This one has hatch charts along with insect pictures http://www.flyfishingsmokymountains.com/hatch.html Heres another one for the Smokies http://www.smokymountainflyguide.com/smoky%20mountain%20hatch%20charts.htm (http://www.smokymountainflyguide.com/smoky%20mountain%20hatch%20charts.htm) Heres some for tailwaters http://www.smokymountainflyguide.com/East%20Tennessee%20tailwaters%20hatch%20charts.htm .

BlueRaiderFan
06-29-2008, 10:41 PM
Heres some helpful links that have hatch charts for the smokies and some tailwaters. This one has hatch charts along with insect pictures http://www.flyfishingsmokymountains.com/hatch.html Heres another one for the Smokies http://www.smokymountainflyguide.com/smoky%20mountain%20hatch%20charts.htm Heres some for tailwaters http://www.smokymountainflyguide.com/East%20Tennessee%20tailwaters%20hatch%20charts.htm .


Wow, excellent links! THnaks for the info guys!

waterwolf
06-29-2008, 11:15 PM
Seriously, forget the books and hatch charts. You will spend more time chasing your tail then focusing on serious fish catching.

Clinch from now until next April fish a size 18 Copper Bead Head PT, a size 18 midge pupa of some description and forget about everything else. It is not needed and NOTHING will work better then the two above day in and day out.

Holston fish nothing but either a size 16 Copper Bead PT or an 18 Copper Bead PT for the entire year except in April or May when you can fish a few dry caddis. Every now and then those fish are real suckers for a #18 Griffiths Gnat.

On the park I always kept it simple. In the winter a #16 CBPT or a #14 CBPT if the water was a little high. Spring and Summer, Parachute Adams or a Thunderhead will work all the time no matter what.

Keep it simple and forget the hatch charts except during Sulfurs on the Clinch and South Holston.

Take the above for what it is worth, but eons of traipsing this area has taught me one thing, Keep it simple stupid. No reason for all the frills, and yes fly selection is that easy no matter what people try to tell you.

BlueRaiderFan
06-30-2008, 07:51 AM
Wolf,

Thanks for the pearls of wisdom :smile: I'm going to print that off and use it to fish with. However, I love to tie, so I will probably end up tying every fly on those charts! :biggrin:

Dwayne

tennswede
06-30-2008, 08:44 AM
The only thing I would add that Sulfurs are a major possibility on South Holston all the way up to late October. I fished it last week of October last year and it was a thick Sulfur hatch.

waterwolf
06-30-2008, 12:06 PM
Wolf,

Thanks for the pearls of wisdom :smile: I'm going to print that off and use it to fish with. However, I love to tie, so I will probably end up tying every fly on those charts! :biggrin:

Dwayne

No harm in having a full fly box.

If you want to tie something that can be deadly on the Clinch:

#18 TMC2457
3/32 Black Tungsten Bead
Chartreuse Spanflex wrapped up the body over olive thread
A sparse amber z-lon tail.

It imitates a black caddis puppa, and sometimes works like a charm in August. The black caddis hatch on the Clinch is unbelievable but they don't get on the water until dark which poses a problem because of generation schedules in the summer which 99.999999999999% of the time are full bore by 2:00 PM. So there is no need for a dry to represent the adults.

BlueRaiderFan
06-30-2008, 08:09 PM
Good stuff guys. Thanks. This stuff is like gold! It would have taken me years to figure this out on my own. I wish I had more time to go to some of these places.

Waterborn
07-01-2008, 08:17 AM
I like to subscribe to the KISS method and I'd agree that a small BHPT will pretty much take fish in all our waters year round in a #16-14, but everytime I go out with my set up, I usually find a situation or two that causes me to make a few adjusments...

The good ol' Clinch River Combo in my opinion was the PT and #18 beadhead olive V-rib combo, still works well enough and for most of the years thats all I fished, my biggest Clinch fish,a 25" brown fell to that combo(at the midge) - but I bet today you will catch more with a #22 bh zebra - this goes for the SOHO as well - everyone forgets or doesn't know about the blackfiles which I think there are more of in these waters - plus a zebra would double as a pattern for the smaller midges too...in the winter (which is when I like to fish the tailwaters, there is the a great midge and blackfly hatch which using the v-rib and zebra combo is great till a hatch comes off and then you you would want a little expansion in you box to have fun with the risers - small olive parachutes and tiny EHC or griffiths if you prefer...would be no fun to sit (well it would be, but frustrating) to sit an watch a pod of risers on midges and blackflies only not to have something to throw out at them, sure you could grease up a midge nymph and float the film and what not, but athat big ol snout slowly poking through on a deliberate surface take on teensy bug I think is one of the coolest opprutunites a tailwater presents that we get to try our hand at, pays to have a little diversity in the box...
The Holston, pretty much a caddis game in the spring - though there are two distinct sizes and colors you'd want to keep on hand - in the morning a small olive about a #20 and afternoon a much larger almost #14 tan...midges like a simple brassie the rest of the time.
Don't forget the winter BWO's on the SOHO - just as important as the Sulphurs ...though I would keep the sulphurs on hand becuause I've fished in on a "warmer" winter sunny day and low and behold, not a blanket hatch, but a few sporatic sulphurs did come of and I managed a couple of fish off a parachute sulpher just to see if it work..
In the park, bare bones can be the ticket - adams, ehc (yellow in the summer time - small and black in the winter) and pt....the only addition is the venerable green weenie for the summer time and SMBBSH for just about any time of the year highsticked...
Start off with the basics and if you choose to expand, go for it - and if you like to tie, have fun with it...tie up that pattern that no one has, cause as pressured as sometimes as these waters get, the fish might want something new you might have for them to look at.

waterwolf
07-01-2008, 12:55 PM
I strongly disagree with the #22 theory. There is no reason to ever go that small on the clinch. Most of the Blackfly larvae are #18 and the same goes for the midges. So why scrimp down to a ridiculously small fly which has a hard time staying connected with a fish of any size.

I can say with 100% certainty that I wore them out this morning just as I have for as long as I care to remember on a #18 CBPT.

If dries are your game then have at it, I rarely if ever fish dries as it just isn't my style and I like the mystery of who is on the other end when the yarn goes under.

Troutman
07-01-2008, 03:06 PM
BRF, Here is a good little book by Roger Lowe that details what is hatching for each month of the year and a good fly imitation for each for the Smokies. Good info., but I don't think you need to carry many flies for mtn. stream fishing. Adams,EHC PT, and maybe a few tellicos will generally suffice. Good presentations are much more important.
Figuring out what the fish are eating is part of the experience though, so don't rely on forums and books to teach you what is better learned by time on the water.
http://littleriveroutfitters.com/store/product.php?productid=17455&cat=995&page=1

BlueRaiderFan
07-01-2008, 03:16 PM
Great, thanks guys.

BRF

Waterborn
07-01-2008, 05:38 PM
Well, tis your right to disagree - and we can agree to disagree, but after much side by hook hook matching from several years of random stomach pumps, the black fly larvae on average are that small - some midges as well. The larger olive midges that most have settled on immitating that come off and that most see are a good #18...and there are some honest to goodeness #32 out there too- NOW that would be ridiculous to fool around with...
BTW, I am speaking mostly of subsurface fishing - afterall, most of the time they do eat underwater, but every now and again, you'll see the risers and its another element of fun to chase them with a dry when they are eating topwater.
Whether top or under though, I suppose for some it would be difficult to handle #22 hooks - it requires a little finesse in the playing of fish - but one would be surprised what the "wider" gap of a T2488 hook can hold and daiichi scud hooks are a new favorite...once you get the hang of it and have some confidence in the ablilites, fish stay on just fine...a good trick though if one can't keep a hookset is to "short shank" a larger hook...take a size larger hook and tie a size smaller proportion body on it - for example a #20 hook, then a #22 body and so on...gives a little extra hook power...
Speaking of scuds - that's another one to have on hand for the Clinch, something in grey/olive - though since the rock snot, they've been less of an issue in certain areas- but with rising or falling water, a PT / scud-licious combo is a fun one to tie on...
AAAANND then there's the streamer fishing on a one generator two if your daring - but thats a whole 'nuther kettle of fish...

But as Gary points out, one shouldn't rely on second hand - go out and learn for yourself - thats half the fun and you'll find your own formula/path and what works for you...

waterwolf
07-01-2008, 07:56 PM
You are right I know nothing about the Clinch, can you please teach me :rolleyes:

Scuds, abound in the clinch as well as sowbugs, even with the didymo. In fact , it has been years since I have seen the benthic load in the clinch as healthy as it was this year. Best sulfur hatches since the mid 90's.

Listen to micro man if you would like but please take it from an old hand on the CLinch that you do not need to go to flies that small to have tremendous success.

BTW are you suggesting I do not know how to fight fish waterborn?

ChemEAngler
07-01-2008, 08:14 PM
You are right I know nothing about the Clinch, can you please teach me :rolleyes:

Scuds, abound in the clinch as well as sowbugs, even with the didymo. In fact , it has been years since I have seen the benthic load in the clinch as healthy as it was this year. Best sulfur hatches since the mid 90's.

Listen to micro man if you would like but please take it from an old hand on the CLinch that you do not need to go to flies that small to have tremendous success.

BTW are you suggesting I do not know how to fight fish waterborn?

Wolf,
From my interpretation, Waterborn said nothing about your skill level, nor anything about your abilities on the clinch. I have to agree about this years sulphur hatch and the abundance of mayfly nymphs in the 16 to 18 range. However, I as well consider the clinch my home water, and I have also had very good success in the past using size 20 and smaller midges. Not dries, but pupae and larvae. There is nothing wrong with having some of these midges with you in case you encounter finicky trout.

Travis

waterwolf
07-01-2008, 08:29 PM
To each their own and if it works for you then by all means have at it. At the end of the day it is you casting and fishing it, and not me. If it works and you enjoy it, then it is not my place to care what you use on a daily basis.

Waterborn
07-01-2008, 10:54 PM
I absolutely agree - and has been my point all along: to each thier own - something we all can agree on. Everyone finds what route they like,take, or what works for them in the enjoyment of flyfishing...that is what makes this sport so great. Just becasuse we all have our own formula for a particular water, doesn't mean its better suited than someone else's....your way, my way - who cares - it ain't better, and it ain't worse - if it works for ya, then thats just fine...
Micro Man? Resorted to name calling have we? Ouch!...Well, In my defense, I'm pretty sure I never did say you only had to have the small stuff to be successful, but again, it doesn't hurt to have something on hand..but for me, the zebra has replaced the vrib midge....the larger PT or Scud is still there.
I've had great times on the Clinch with flies from sizes #28 midge to 3/0 Puglisi - don't know to many micro guys who are just as comfortable to bang the banks with an 8wt and 250 grain sinktip and a 4" streamer when a buddy with a drifter says "Ihey're generating, I needed a shuttle and someone to row, so get in the boat!" :biggrin: ...

WaterWolf, you're obviously as just as passionate about flyfishing as I am and as much as anyone else on this board I'm sure - that's a good thing, maybe someday we'll be able to share some water together and compare notes sometime...

waterwolf
07-02-2008, 06:48 AM
Probably shared the water more times together now then we know. And just a tip on the streamers, no need for a sink tip. In fact you will do 10X better without the sink tip, and one other thing of the 15 or so 25"+ browns I have netted or caught 1 came from the bank. Just something to keep in mind.