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Worrgamesguy
08-18-2008, 05:47 PM
I guess this is the place to put this, but I learned that brown trout and striped bass are not native to Tennessee today. The brown trout part shocked me, because I could have sworn they were, but I guess not. Cool :cool:

Also, what do you guys think of the Elk and Duck rivers? I've heard mixed things, and want to try them soon.

waterwolf
08-18-2008, 06:21 PM
Terrible rivers the Elk and Duck are, the Elk is in the process of being destroyed by TVA generation regimes.

On the Brown Trout stuff......oh my......

Grumpy
08-18-2008, 07:03 PM
Brownies aren't even American, imported from over the pond, striper are native to the USA & introduced here as well.

The Elk would be the place to be, the Duck won't pick up til late Nov/Dec.

Grumpy

Worrgamesguy
08-18-2008, 09:30 PM
Terrible rivers the Elk and Duck are, the Elk is in the process of being destroyed by TVA generation regimes.

On the Brown Trout stuff......oh my......

Ok Yoda :p Any Star Wars nerds here? *raises hand*

Brownies aren't even American, imported from over the pond, striper are native to the USA & introduced here as well.

The Elk would be the place to be, the Duck won't pick up til late Nov/Dec.

Grumpy

Oh really, that's news to me. Learn more than one something new every day.

BlueRaiderFan
08-18-2008, 10:12 PM
Brown trout were brought here from England and Germany. I think the brown trout is actually a Char, but I may be mistaken. We sent rainbows to Germany and England in return. Brookies are the only trout native to Tennessee, I think. I'm just not certain am I? :eek:

waterwolf
08-18-2008, 10:31 PM
[quote=Worrgamesguy;56855]Ok Yoda :p Any Star Wars nerds here? *raises hand*


:rolleyes:

Yes brookies are native, but the only remaining native brookies in this immediate area are in the Tellico and Citico watersheds. The others are imports from up north.

The Browns and Rainbows, now brookies I guess, filled the void which Smallmouth and other native warmwater fish occupied prior to the damming of our river systems.

Sorry and no offense but I find it odd that a fisherman in this state and poster on a fly-fishing forum didn't know that brown trout were not native. BTW the rainbows aren't either. West Coast is where they come from.

On a side note, do some research on how all of the stocking started it is pretty fascinating how the stocked trout originally. No kidding it is, and especially the lengths at which they went to get the slimy things in this area.

milligan trout degree
08-18-2008, 10:39 PM
[quote=Worrgamesguy;56855]Ok Yoda :p Any Star Wars nerds here? *raises hand*


:rolleyes:

Yes brookies are native, but the only remaining native brookies in this immediate area are in the Tellico and Citico watersheds. The others are imports from up north.

The Browns and Rainbows, now brookies I guess, filled the void which Smallmouth and other native warmwater fish occupied prior to the damming of our river systems.

Sorry and no offense but I find it odd that a fisherman in this state and poster on a fly-fishing forum didn't know that brown trout were not native. BTW the rainbows aren't either. West Coast is where they come from.

On a side note, do some research on how all of the stocking started it is pretty fascinating how the stocked trout originally. No kidding it is, and especially the lengths at which they went to get the slimy things in this area.



It's understandable someone wouldn't know some of that information. I'm sure that when most people pick up a fly rod for the first time are unaware of the origins of the fish they're after. Gotta learn somewhere and I couldn't think of a better place to learn than from a fly fishing forum.

BTW....I'm pretty certain that browns are in the trout family (salmonious or whatever the scientific name is). Brook trout are of the char family and not true trout. I also believe that there are native brookies in east tn. other than in the tellico and citigo watersheds. I'm willing to bet that the northeast tennessee mountain hold a few of these wild/native specs as well as a few streams in the smokies though the smokies may have been hit harder than mountains around unicoi with logging operations.


I'm no expert, this is just information I've read or heard from other people, I'm just spreading gossip on a casual gossip forum.

Ben

waterwolf
08-18-2008, 10:48 PM
Citico, not citigo, the latter sounds like a gas station:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

In all seriousness,

I never said that a "Brook Trout is a true trout". Those are words which you are trying to put into my mouth. Salmonid is the name of the brown trout family, and more specifically salmo trutta. I am no fisheries biologist and never claimed to be, the genetics of most trout in our rivers are so twisted it is like an Appalachin family tree.

To the best of my knowledge the only true remaining Southern App. brook trout in East TN reside in Tellico and Citico Tribs. When Ian and I fished for them all the time I am pretty dang sure that nowhere else in this state do they exist in their pure form.

I am also fairly sure that most of NE TN is void of any Brook Trout exclusive waters. Everything has been tainted by non-native exotics.

The waters in the park were decimated by much of the logging and the original strains were lost and restocked with Northern Strains. At least this is what Steve Moore with the GSMNPS told me while doing Acid Deposition stuff 15 years ago. Different info may have been found since then, however.

If someone is new to trout fishing it is completely understandable that they would not know these things. Heck there are people on the Clinch who have fished it for 30 years who think those fish are native. Also native and wild are confused all the time.

Worrgamesguy
08-18-2008, 11:10 PM
Brown trout were brought here from England and Germany. I think the brown trout is actually a Char, but I may be mistaken. We sent rainbows to Germany and England in return. Brookies are the only trout native to Tennessee, I think. I'm just not certain am I? :eek:

Brookies are char, browns are actually trout. I know that much.

[quote=Worrgamesguy;56855]Ok Yoda :p Any Star Wars nerds here? *raises hand*


:rolleyes:

Yes brookies are native, but the only remaining native brookies in this immediate area are in the Tellico and Citico watersheds. The others are imports from up north.

The Browns and Rainbows, now brookies I guess, filled the void which Smallmouth and other native warmwater fish occupied prior to the damming of our river systems.

Sorry and no offense but I find it odd that a fisherman in this state and poster on a fly-fishing forum didn't know that brown trout were not native. BTW the rainbows aren't either. West Coast is where they come from.

On a side note, do some research on how all of the stocking started it is pretty fascinating how the stocked trout originally. No kidding it is, and especially the lengths at which they went to get the slimy things in this area.

I've been trout fishing since I was two, so that makes me a trout fisherman of 16 years and I didn't know half of the stuff I know know because of this forum. You guys are awesome :biggrin:

[quote=waterwolf;56863]



It's understandable someone wouldn't know some of that information. I'm sure that when most people pick up a fly rod for the first time are unaware of the origins of the fish they're after. Gotta learn somewhere and I couldn't think of a better place to learn than from a fly fishing forum.

BTW....I'm pretty certain that browns are in the trout family (salmonious or whatever the scientific name is). Brook trout are of the char family and not true trout. I also believe that there are native brookies in east tn. other than in the tellico and citigo watersheds. I'm willing to bet that the northeast tennessee mountain hold a few of these wild/native specs as well as a few streams in the smokies though the smokies may have been hit harder than mountains around unicoi with logging operations.


I'm no expert, this is just information I've read or heard from other people, I'm just spreading gossip on a casual gossip forum.

Ben

Yeah, I started fly fishing about 2 months ago and have only caught 3 trout that I was able to get to hand. I had dozens of hook-sets and much more misses, enough to make me sick when thinking of it. Trout are beautiful, I've caught some pretty browns, that I thought were native until today. Kinda makes me sad, but I'm glad I know now that way I don't get laughed at when I talk about fishing.

waterwolf
08-19-2008, 06:49 AM
No one will laugh at you, but they might be quick to correct you depending on the audience.

Grumpy
08-19-2008, 08:28 AM
Yep the brookie is the only true strain of trout(char) in the state, if a brown/bow is the result from a spawn on a TN river, i'm calling it a native, after all, i was born here & my birth certificate says i be one;)

Grumpy

BlueRaiderFan
08-19-2008, 02:07 PM
Brookies are char, browns are actually trout. I know that much.

[quote=waterwolf;56863]

I've been trout fishing since I was two, so that makes me a trout fisherman of 16 years and I didn't know half of the stuff I know know because of this forum. You guys are awesome :biggrin:

[quote=milligan trout degree;56864]

Yeah, I started fly fishing about 2 months ago and have only caught 3 trout that I was able to get to hand. I had dozens of hook-sets and much more misses, enough to make me sick when thinking of it. Trout are beautiful, I've caught some pretty browns, that I thought were native until today. Kinda makes me sad, but I'm glad I know now that way I don't get laughed at when I talk about fishing.

Hey, you know a lot for an 18 year old! Keep up the good work:smile:

BlueRaiderFan
08-19-2008, 03:32 PM
Citico, not citigo, the latter sounds like a gas station:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

In all seriousness,

I never said that a "Brook Trout is a true trout". Those are words which you are trying to put into my mouth. Salmonid is the name of the brown trout family, and more specifically salmo trutta. I am no fisheries biologist and never claimed to be, the genetics of most trout in our rivers are so twisted it is like an Appalachin family tree.

To the best of my knowledge the only true remaining Southern App. brook trout in East TN reside in Tellico and Citico Tribs. When Ian and I fished for them all the time I am pretty dang sure that nowhere else in this state do they exist in their pure form.

I am also fairly sure that most of NE TN is void of any Brook Trout exclusive waters. Everything has been tainted by non-native exotics.

The waters in the park were decimated by much of the logging and the original strains were lost and restocked with Northern Strains. At least this is what Steve Moore with the GSMNPS told me while doing Acid Deposition stuff 15 years ago. Different info may have been found since then, however.

If someone is new to trout fishing it is completely understandable that they would not know these things. Heck there are people on the Clinch who have fished it for 30 years who think those fish are native. Also native and wild are confused all the time.

I th ink he may have been responding to my post about what is and isn't a true trout. I had mentioned that I thought a brown may be a char in an earlier post. Just a thought.:smile:

milligan trout degree
08-19-2008, 03:38 PM
I th ink he may have been responding to my post about what is and isn't a true trout. I had mentioned that I thought a brown may be a char in an earlier post. Just a thought.:smile:


BlueRaiderFan, you're right on about what I meant. I wasn't going to bother correcting waterwolf though, he seems to be pretty confident in his own judgement and I'm not out to burst anyone's bubbles.

BlueRaiderFan
08-19-2008, 03:45 PM
Yeah, it's hard to tell exactly what people mean on these boards. I joked around for a few threads the other week about not catching trout above Elkmont (I wasn't really that upset about it after the first post or two) and some guy is calling me a "whiner" now. I think I may have to just stay off of these boards.

waterwolf
08-19-2008, 05:59 PM
BlueRaiderFan, you're right on about what I meant. I wasn't going to bother correcting waterwolf though, he seems to be pretty confident in his own judgement and I'm not out to burst anyone's bubbles.

Burst it, you won't be the first and certainly won't be the last. I am man enough to admit if I was wrong, which is more then can be said for most.

milligan trout degree
08-19-2008, 06:08 PM
Burst it, you won't be the first and certainly won't be the last. I am man enough to admit if I was wrong, which is more then can be said for most.


I hear ya man.

tight lines,

Ben