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View Full Version : Floating the Caney from HH to Betty's Island


Worrgamesguy
08-20-2008, 08:59 PM
My dad and I are putting in at dawn Sunday morning and making that section of the float for about our 3rd time. I don't remember much of the water, I thought it was all deep like the section a few hundred yards from the newly built stairs below the dam, but my dad told me it gets shallow, too. What should I be fishing mainly, a midge under an EHC or a wooly bugger? I tied on a tapered leader and LOVED it until I started getting knots in it. I took that off, put on a few feet of tippet, then an EHC, another foot or so and then a midge. It casted alright, awkwardly, but it worked. What should I do about that? Be more careful with the tapered, or go as is?

billyspey
08-20-2008, 09:45 PM
most of that section is shallow with out generation .midge ,midge, midge, and somemore midges and maybe some scuds ,under orange bobbber no ehc in that section

BlueRaiderFan
08-20-2008, 10:04 PM
Watch your cast tempo and don't go too far back on your backcast. I personally don't like to have more than 8 ft of leader and tippit total, but that's just me.

Grumpy
08-20-2008, 10:57 PM
With the current schedule, you'll have high water, it will never drop out all the way.
I have a casting class coming up the 20th of Sept;)

Grumpy

Worrgamesguy
08-21-2008, 02:41 PM
most of that section is shallow with out generation .midge ,midge, midge, and somemore midges and maybe some scuds ,under orange bobbber no ehc in that section

EHC as an indicator, not a fly. I quickly saw how much splash the pinch-ons created.

Watch your cast tempo and don't go too far back on your backcast. I personally don't like to have more than 8 ft of leader and tippit total, but that's just me.

I've learned to stop a little past straight up, and when I go too slow the line has a huge loop that doesn't like to roll out onto the water. When I go too fast, the line shoots out straight, stops in the air, and then bends and
twists as it falls to the water.

With the current schedule, you'll have high water, it will never drop out all the way.
I have a casting class coming up the 20th of Sept;)

Grumpy

Email me at jato_jr@yahoo.com for details, I'd be interested.

BlueRaiderFan
08-21-2008, 06:54 PM
EHC as an indicator, not a fly. I quickly saw how much splash the pinch-ons created.



I've learned to stop a little past straight up, and when I go too slow the line has a huge loop that doesn't like to roll out onto the water. When I go too fast, the line shoots out straight, stops in the air, and then bends and
twists as it falls to the water.



Email me at jato_jr@yahoo.com for details, I'd be interested.

Yeah, you better stick with Grumpy. Most of my info is just guess work:biggrin:

Worrgamesguy
08-21-2008, 08:02 PM
Yeah, you better stick with Grumpy. Most of my info is just guess work:biggrin:

No offense, but I know your fly fishing history :rolleyes: Granted you've done far better than me, but I want a veteran. Once the weather cools off I'm gonna take a trip with DonWinn to the Caney.

Worrgamesguy
08-23-2008, 01:36 PM
So should I even bother with a wooly bugger?

BlueRaiderFan
08-23-2008, 03:21 PM
No offense, but I know your fly fishing history :rolleyes: Granted you've done far better than me, but I want a veteran. Once the weather cools off I'm gonna take a trip with DonWinn to the Caney.


Yeah, I've struggled a bit!

Worrgamesguy
08-23-2008, 07:50 PM
Yeah, I've struggled a bit!

I'd be more than happy to fish with anyone on this board though. We could chill, and you knowing more about flies themselves could help me and maybe my ignorance of the sport will teach you something that you didn't already know. We need to get a date for everyone to show up and go fish the Caney.

Worrgamesguy
08-24-2008, 04:29 PM
Well guys, we had an extra man in the boat so I couldn't fly fish. We did catch over 20 trout apiece, and kept 5 mortally wounded fish. Today I had my license checked for the first time in my 16 years of trout fishing, and I didn't have it with me! :eek: But they have this nifty contraption called a cell phone, so they asked me for my SSN and called it in to verify that I had one :redface: *whew*

BlueRaiderFan
08-24-2008, 05:40 PM
Sounds good.:smile:

Gerry Romer
08-24-2008, 11:40 PM
Floated the Caney today and got checked by TWRA, but not for licenses! They were only interested in seeing whether or not we had enough life jackets! By the way, the Caney fished it's usual fantastic self today...

Gerry

Worrgamesguy
08-25-2008, 03:00 PM
Floated the Caney today and got checked by TWRA, but not for licenses! They were only interested in seeing whether or not we had enough life jackets! By the way, the Caney fished it's usual fantastic self today...

Gerry

I think you might have been the guys that were following us. We had two guys in a boat fly fishign behind us almost the entire way. You?

Fishermansfly
08-25-2008, 03:39 PM
I think you might have been the guys that were following us. We had two guys in a boat fly fishign behind us almost the entire way. You?

See the thread I just posted on the Caney, I've posted picture of everyone in the boat!

~Brett

Worrgamesguy
08-25-2008, 08:12 PM
See the thread I just posted on the Caney, I've posted picture of everyone in the boat!

~Brett

So Gerry was with you? I couldn't see that far :frown:

Gerry Romer
08-25-2008, 09:25 PM
So Gerry was with you? I couldn't see that far :frown:

You'd have had to have supreme vision if you were floating from HH to Betty's Island...

We floated from the dam to HH.

A couple things Brett forgot to mention in his report

The really big fish were all caught on white streamers (including one delusional but fat and sassy brookie). The 10" to 16" fish were all caught on #14 pheasant tails.

Doug and I both tried grey thread midges and a few other secret weapons but couldn't buy a sniff.

I mean, pheasant tails on the Caney??

I just heard from billyspey. He floated the Caney today and absolutely killed them!! He said they were pulling in 20"+ fish all on pheasant tails !!

I mean... The Caney?? Pheasant Tails??

What's that all about??

Gerry

monktrout
08-25-2008, 09:59 PM
Gerry, I heard the same news about pheasent tails, even big sizes, on the Caney. Isn't the Caney a 'mayfly free zone'. PT's can also imitate caddis, jumbo scud? I've caught a few fish, mainly brookies on an orange tail bugger. It doesn't resemble trout chow either. What goes on underneath is always a bewilderment to me. Monk

Fishermansfly
08-25-2008, 10:13 PM
I'm sorry I feel like a complete moron now! I missed the HH to Betty's Island part....My life is always such a rush anymore! When used to log on here I had time to run through every post! Now I'm lucky enough to read through the main forum page! Sorry Worrgamesguy!

Monk, I would love some inside knowledge on why they are eating a mayfly immitation so well? It just really doesnt make anysense to me how the fish get as big as they do! Doug said yesterday that the next state record Brookie will come from the Caney! It's hard not to believe if they do well this year, and I can't see them not doing well! They were to fat, fiesty, and pretty not to thrive! What are these fish eating?????? It just can't be midges? There also has to be a good scud/sowbug population with all the grass....I've been there twice and haven't thrown the first immitation! There is always a next time...And there will be plenty more time to figure that water out when I return from Yellowstone! I plan on making that my tailwater of choice!

~Brett

Grumpy
08-26-2008, 07:41 AM
There are sporadic mayfly hatches on the Caney along with Craneflies, scuds out the yazoo, some stones & caddis, then there is the midges & blackflies & some stuff i'm not even sure what they are:redface:
Whoever heard of using a PT on the Caney:confused: btw, we wore them out on a grey midge Sunday.

Grumpy

Worrgamesguy
08-26-2008, 03:38 PM
You'd have had to have supreme vision if you were floating from HH to Betty's Island...

We floated from the dam to HH.

A couple things Brett forgot to mention in his report

The really big fish were all caught on white streamers (including one delusional but fat and sassy brookie). The 10" to 16" fish were all caught on #14 pheasant tails.

Doug and I both tried grey thread midges and a few other secret weapons but couldn't buy a sniff.

I mean, pheasant tails on the Caney??

I just heard from billyspey. He floated the Caney today and absolutely killed them!! He said they were pulling in 20"+ fish all on pheasant tails !!

I mean... The Caney?? Pheasant Tails??

What's that all about??

Gerry

I'm gonna cry now... You have NO clue how badly I wanted to use my fly rod. How do you fish BHPTs? Do you strip them like buggers or do you let the current take them like midges? I need to stock my fly box for the next time, I've got a few midges, a few scuds, 3 BHPTs, and a variety of buggers. Now I just need more colors and sizes of each.

I'm sorry I feel like a complete moron now! I missed the HH to Betty's Island part....My life is always such a rush anymore! When used to log on here I had time to run through every post! Now I'm lucky enough to read through the main forum page! Sorry Worrgamesguy!

Monk, I would love some inside knowledge on why they are eating a mayfly immitation so well? It just really doesnt make anysense to me how the fish get as big as they do! Doug said yesterday that the next state record Brookie will come from the Caney! It's hard not to believe if they do well this year, and I can't see them not doing well! They were to fat, fiesty, and pretty not to thrive! What are these fish eating?????? It just can't be midges? There also has to be a good scud/sowbug population with all the grass....I've been there twice and haven't thrown the first immitation! There is always a next time...And there will be plenty more time to figure that water out when I return from Yellowstone! I plan on making that my tailwater of choice!

~Brett

Don't worry about it man. Of all the 50+ fish we caught between 3 of us, a few of them burped and spat out their stomach contents. One was an extremely tiny black bug that looked like a shrimp that I assumed to be a midge or scud since they look so similar. It squirmed and used its tail to spin itself around in circles in a tiny pool of water in the boat.

Gerry Romer
08-26-2008, 04:39 PM
I was just dropping a #14 BHPT about 24" - 30" below a yarn indicator and letting it drift with the current. I also tried a grey midge this way with no luck. I even tried dropping the grey midge about 18" off the BHPT below the yarn with no luck on either. However, apparently Grumpy was throwing only grey midges through the same stretch and killing 'em! Ya just never know...

Gerry

billyspey
08-26-2008, 09:32 PM
just fish what you have the most confidence in and learn to fish it well. . most important put it in front of the fish with no drag, equals success

Worrgamesguy
08-26-2008, 10:59 PM
just fish what you have the most confidence in and learn to fish it well. . most important put it in front of the fish with no drag, equals success

That's easier said than done. I have NO confidence in any of my flies, except for maybe a wooly bugger that is so simple to fish that a chimp could produce fish off it. My rod and reel are terrible, as well as my line :frown:

I need a "Help the fly fishing newbie donation fund" so I can afford a decent rod and reel setup.

Gerry Romer
08-27-2008, 12:25 PM
One day, a great many years ago in college, we were doing a group critique of a particular art project. One of my classmates criticized my work as seeming cheap and unfinished. I explained that, as a young and starving art student, I just didn't have the funds to buy the right materials. His reply to my comment was very effective and cut me off at the knees. He simply replied, "It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools." He was right.:redface:

Seriously, long before there were "decent setups" guys were doing this quite successfully with cane poles and a few feet of mono. :smile:

I don't understand why a BHPT works like it does on the Caney - by all rights it shouldn't. When I say it shouldn't, I mean that a BHPT is an acceptable imitation of a variety of mayfly nymphs, but the Caney isn't known for its huge mayfly populations. However, a couple people told me to try it anyway, and so I did. The first time I tried it, I couldn't buy a strike. But after altering the depth and experimenting with different casts (upstream, downstream, across-and-down) I was able to find what worked.

The first person to tell me to try it was billyspey. He and I had floated the Caney earlier this year and had tremendous success with grey thread midges... and we hadn't tried a single BHPT that day.

The next person to tell me about the BHPT was a guy who lives on the Caney and says he fishes it four or five days a week (must be nice!). He came out of the woods alongside the river and waded in to fish below me one day last week. He was pulling fish in on almost every single cast while I was having considerably less success. We got to talking and he told me he was fishing a BHPT about 24" below a yarn indicator -- exact same setup I was using. Then I noticed that he was presenting his fly across and down (more down than across) and getting hits just about at the end of the swing. I started casting a bit more downstream and giving the line the slightest tug as the nymph started to rise. That's when my fish count started to go up.:biggrin:

That's a really long way of saying what billyspey just said. I had confidence in the BHPT (even though I shouldn't have) because I was willing to trust two people who know more about this sport and that river than I do. Then I was willing to find a technique I could be comfortable with - and stick with.

It could just have easily been with a cane pole and a few yards of mono.

In fact, on that particular day I was using a setup that I had never fished before and I was not comfortable with. I had a custom Sage RPL 9' 4wt. and I had it overlined with a brand new 5wt. SA Sharkskin Magnum taper... big mistake. That Sage will throw a lot of line as long as it's 4wt. line! The 5wt. line kept collapsing on me. I couldn't get the distance I wanted and had very little accuracy. I've since tried that Sage with a 4wt. line and it is killer!

But see, it didn't have anything to do with the rod, reel, or line. I had about 4 feet of 6x Seaguar tied to the end of a furled leader. I dropped the BHPT about 2' below a cheap little piece of yarn. The custom Sage rod, Orvis Battenkill Mid-Arbor reel and Sharkskin Magnum Taper line didn't impress the fish one bit... but that size 14 BHPT made out of some old ratty pheasant tail fibers, some copper wire and a copper bead sure got their attention :cool:

Gerry

Worrgamesguy
08-27-2008, 08:57 PM
Will you be my father, Gerry? :p

Good gollee I have much to learn, but just because I'm not using a cane pole and a few feet of mono doesn't mean I have it easy. I'm gonna try out Grumpy's class, and if that doesn't help me then it MUST be my setup. I'm really liking the color and feel of the TFO rods, both the NXT outfit and the Pro series. I need stuff to make my casting easier, tapered leaders and I didn't get along very well and using straight tippet material made a very arc-shaped cast that was wobbly.

Gerry Romer
08-27-2008, 11:36 PM
Be nice to him, Grumpy! He really is trying... :biggrin:

Gerry

Grumpy
08-28-2008, 08:08 AM
Be nice to him, Grumpy! He really is trying... :biggrin:

Gerry

I have anger management classes before each one i do;)

Grumpy

fishingman62
08-28-2008, 09:10 AM
worrgames i have a very inexpensive fly rod.... an 8ft flugler i got at wallmart several years ago.... i fish with the store bought tappered leader and add about 2ft of 5 or 6x tippet to it.... i am a self taught flyfisherman so im far from an excpert... but through practice and trial and error i can make a decent presentation and catch fish .... just keep at it and if you cant get to the river find a pond and put on a pooper and cast to bluegills..... just try varying your arm speed and your wrist movements....watch your loop behind you so you can see if its coalapsing behind you at all.... start with shorter cast then work up to longer ones ...like i said im far from an excpert but am willing to help as best i can ....hope this helps you a little bit ... if i was closer i would take crumpys class to..... he seems to be a very knowledgable guy

golfballs03
08-28-2008, 01:42 PM
put on a pooper?

Gerry Romer
08-28-2008, 02:58 PM
put on a pooper?


I hear crumpy's running a special on 'em... one free pooper with every successful single haul!;)

Worrgamesguy
08-28-2008, 03:01 PM
Be nice to him, Grumpy! He really is trying... :biggrin:

Gerry

I am really interested, I just need the patience of learning. I wanted to learn everything immediately and cast like you see everyone casting on the river, but my loops look deformed and don't look as pretty as theirs. My rod tip bounces creating bends in the line as it goes out, and it doesn't work at all.

I have anger management classes before each one i do;)

Grumpy

I need your email address, sir. How much is this class gonna set me back?

worrgames i have a very inexpensive fly rod.... an 8ft flugler i got at wallmart several years ago.... i fish with the store bought tappered leader and add about 2ft of 5 or 6x tippet to it.... i am a self taught flyfisherman so im far from an excpert... but through practice and trial and error i can make a decent presentation and catch fish .... just keep at it and if you cant get to the river find a pond and put on a pooper and cast to bluegills..... just try varying your arm speed and your wrist movements....watch your loop behind you so you can see if its coalapsing behind you at all.... start with shorter cast then work up to longer ones ...like i said im far from an excpert but am willing to help as best i can ....hope this helps you a little bit ... if i was closer i would take crumpys class to..... he seems to be a very knowledgable guy

Well, if it was several years ago it was probably before they started carrying poorly made Chinese rods. It's undescribable how terrible my rod and reel are, I am partially tempted to let one of you fly fishing gods try it out for a day and tell me if it is really me or the rod. I'd like to think it was the rod :biggrin: I'm heavily considering going up to the Stones River today and practicing with a popper (haha at your "pooper"). We need to meet up at the Caney soon, Dan.

put on a pooper?

Bahahaha :cool:

Grumpy
08-28-2008, 03:13 PM
I need your email address, sir. How much is this class gonna set me back?







I sent an e-mail from the store.

Grumpy

Worrgamesguy
08-28-2008, 07:33 PM
Gosh Grumpy is SO MEAN!!! I went up to Cumberland Transit to pay $10 for my casting lessons, and he is SO MEAN that he let me cast the rod I was considering buying AND we talked for almost 3 hours. GOSH! :p I'm DEFINITELY buying a TFO Pro series rod, without a doubt. I'm psyched for the class on the 20th.

Grumpy
08-29-2008, 07:57 AM
Gosh Grumpy is SO MEAN!!! I went up to Cumberland Transit to pay $10 for my casting lessons, and he is SO MEAN that he let me cast the rod I was considering buying AND we talked for almost 3 hours. GOSH! :p I'm DEFINITELY buying a TFO Pro series rod, without a doubt. I'm psyched for the class on the 20th.

well, i was trying to eat lunch dadgummit, i enjoyed the questions & enthusiasm, you'll be fine, all we gotta do is tackle one thig at a time;)

Grumpy

fishingman62
08-29-2008, 02:46 PM
popper that is lol lol typo typo typo lol lol

Worrgamesguy
08-29-2008, 06:06 PM
well, i was trying to eat lunch dadgummit, i enjoyed the questions & enthusiasm, you'll be fine, all we gotta do is tackle one thig at a time;)

Grumpy

:redface: I told you I would come back if you weren't finished. I am getting ready to go up to Stones River here in a bit, I didn't get a chance to yesterday. I had NO clue that traffic was gonna be that bad. I didn't get off 440 for nearly an hour. But I cast my rod for about 15 minutes today, and still hate it.

popper that is lol lol typo typo typo lol lol

Haha SUUURE it is.

Grumpy
08-29-2008, 07:12 PM
It's a lot easier if you can find a rod that you "click" with, once you learn to cast, they're all fun but different.

Grumpy

Worrgamesguy
08-29-2008, 08:53 PM
Well, it was the same scenario I told you, Ron. Popper was just too big for the bluegill. So I switched over to this extremely cheap bee imitation that my dad bought off eBay along with about 45 other flies for next to nothing. I wasn't getting any bites, so I cast it off to the side so I could select my next fly when I went to pull in my fly and it pulled back. I had a FAT pumpkinseed on (I think that is the name they're called, the really bright blue and orange ones). I caught about 4 or 5 more after that in the same spot all in different sizes, so it was pretty fun.