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View Full Version : Skunked on the Caney...Again.


BlueRaiderFan
09-28-2008, 09:41 PM
O.k. so I took my nephew to the Caney down by Lancaster (The Steps?) and started out fishing the middle of the river with a dry stimulator with a black bead head zebra midge dropped down about 4ft (I usually go 2ft, but Grumpy said he likes to fish deeper, so I thought I would give it a shot). I tried the middle, closer to the bank and nothing. I was mending my line well, I think. I couldn't get the last two feet of tippet to mend just right, but it was o.k. I did get one bite. Saw some guys in a drift boat catch one a couple hundred feet to the left of us (looked like a huge brown), so we moved down and tried there when they left (this place is on the bank directly across from the steps from the road). Still nothing. I finally tried a Light Elk Hair Caddis alone on top and still nothing. I saw a really small white fly hatching, but I don't know what it was. I think I'll try a blue winged olive with a midge dropper...Any suggestions?

David Knapp
09-28-2008, 10:39 PM
I think when Grumpy is talking about fishing deeper he is referring to using an indicator rig. It will take some split shot to get the fly down. A zebra midge is great as a dropper as long as you keep the dropper length short. In flowing water, it isn't able to sink fast enough on its own to get particularly deep quickly enough. I would suggest keeping your droppers shorter (at least that is what has worked well for me). When fishing out at Lees Ferry in Arizona (where the zebra midge originated I believe), I was told that a fish will come up in the water column to take this pattern and not to let your dropper get too long. If they aren't taking midge pupa then it will be a long day even with this normally amazing pattern. There are always a few fish that can be caught on this rig but you need to learn where they are apt to be feeding if most of the fish aren't keyed on pupa. Let the fish tell you what they want. Some days you can fish a dry/dropper all day and other days it will be very slow on that rig...

If you want to fish a deep nymph rig, stick to using an indicator and split shot...

Worrgamesguy
09-28-2008, 11:37 PM
I don't know how you could get skunked on the Caney...

David- Isn't Lancaster where we parked and we all almost fell? The place with the shack across the pull off? If it is, then Lancaster hasn't "shock and awed" me by all means. It seems like fantastic water but when we were there we saw at least a dozen fishermen and only one 17" brown was caught, along with a few that David pulled in. Gerry and I didn't catch any at Lancaster.

BRF, I'll tell you my favorite- a tan sz. 14 EHC with a black and silver zebra midge under it. I've had multiple strikes on the indicator, but I haven't been able to bring one in on the indicator just yet. But I PROMISE that if you go up to Happy Hollow right around daybreak it is IMPOSSIBLE not to catch a fish, it's unreal how many fish are in that shallow water not even 10 feet out.

To your question about length of tippet, here's a method I made up that has worked great for me- make your elbows touch your side, and hold the spool of tippet with both hands in the middle of your chest. Grab the end of the tippet on the spool, still keeping elbows on your sides, pull your hands apart until your arms go straight out from your body. Grab the place where the tippet meets the spool with your left hand, keeping your right hand straight out, and pull one more length until your left hand becomes straight out from your body. Make sense? Sorry it might be a little confusing :redface:

Flat Fly n
09-29-2008, 07:55 AM
Yesterday was supposed to be a bad day to fish........

I know a couple who plan everything around the almanac, maybe their right!! LOL

It's a good excuse for you.

I agree with Plat. Ditch all that Stimulator mess and say if you are fishing in 3-4 ft. of slight current or more tie on your terminal tippet of about a foot. Add to the surgeons knot or blood knot area some Loon Soft lead(trick i use is leave the ends of the excess mono a little longer than usual, about 2mm and it helps hold the lead on). I then use Lefty's Indicator yarn in white. IF there is current add about 4-6 in more than the actual depth to compensate for the bend in the leader/tippet from the current. IF no current, make it the same as the depth.

Rule of thumb. If you have a great fly and no strikes. Make the indicator 4 inches longer to get the fly deeper. Do this about every 10 drifts until you either start picking up fish or you start hitting the bottom. If you pick up the bottom then back up 2-3 inches and you should be putting it on their nose!

Grumpy
09-29-2008, 08:15 AM
Good advice guys.

Grumpy

BlueRaiderFan
09-29-2008, 12:29 PM
Guys thanks for all of the advice. I will try all of it on my next trip. Lancaster does seem to be tough, but I want to keep trying until I catch on there. I figure if you can catch one there, you can catch them anywhere. Also, is an indicator easier to move that a dry? Because if I'm constantly moving my dry, I'll be adding and taking off tippet like crazy. So far, I've just used a dry as an indicator.

BlueRaiderFan
09-29-2008, 02:11 PM
Never mind...Googled it and I see that an o ring indicator can indeed be moved up and down the line without tying it off. Thanks again for all of the help.

JimmyC
09-29-2008, 04:14 PM
Dwayne,
I'm sending you a box of dynomite. Check your certified Homeland Security messages.

BlueRaiderFan
09-29-2008, 05:37 PM
Dwayne,
I'm sending you a box of dynomite. Check your certified Homeland Security messages.


Ha! The sad part is: I probably still wouldn't get a fish.:frown:

Flat Fly n
09-29-2008, 09:06 PM
I can change the depth of a yarn indicator in 10 seconds or less.. but then again I have been using them forever, and I work with my hands.

Buy some of the Lefty's little secret indicator. It is good for big water and especially skinny water where you can use like a micro indicator in 8-10" of water. Seriously, it's great. Take along a pair of scissors. I use the scissors/pliers combo from Dr. Slick. The secret to loosen or remove the indicator is to pull both tips/wings of the indicator at the same time and it loosens the knot. I little practice and you will never use another indicator again. Also. it comes with a double twist of yarn together. Use only one twist and sometimes only a part of it. If you go out west buy some ahead of time, because I once search 4 flyshops in W. Yellowstone before finding some. Seems they like those huge ones and put them back about 6 feet from the fly. I can't figure that out for the life of me. Think VERTICAL!

PS.. What is a Blue Raider anyway?
https://securewsch02.websitecomplete.com/rmdstore/images/Img14.jpg (https://securewsch02.websitecomplete.com/rmdstore/shop/showDept.asp?dept=2#)

Gerry Romer
09-29-2008, 09:22 PM
I don't know how you could get skunked on the Caney...

David- Isn't Lancaster where we parked and we all almost fell? The place with the shack across the pull off? If it is, then Lancaster hasn't "shock and awed" me by all means. It seems like fantastic water but when we were there we saw at least a dozen fishermen and only one 17" brown was caught, along with a few that David pulled in. Gerry and I didn't catch any at Lancaster.

BRF, I'll tell you my favorite- a tan sz. 14 EHC with a black and silver zebra midge under it. I've had multiple strikes on the indicator, but I haven't been able to bring one in on the indicator just yet. But I PROMISE that if you go up to Happy Hollow right around daybreak it is IMPOSSIBLE not to catch a fish, it's unreal how many fish are in that shallow water not even 10 feet out.

To your question about length of tippet, here's a method I made up that has worked great for me- make your elbows touch your side, and hold the spool of tippet with both hands in the middle of your chest. Grab the end of the tippet on the spool, still keeping elbows on your sides, pull your hands apart until your arms go straight out from your body. Grab the place where the tippet meets the spool with your left hand, keeping your right hand straight out, and pull one more length until your left hand becomes straight out from your body. Make sense? Sorry it might be a little confusing :redface:

Listen to you!!

A few posts ago you were whining just like BRF :biggrin: "I can't catch anything on the Caney... where are all the fish?? ... what am I doing wrong??" and now you're offering sound advice!? Where did this come from??

congrats! You're not only addicted, you know what's going on and how to explain it. Very gratifying...

Now for some specifics.

The 12' that Grumpy was referring to was for some specific areas along the Caney's course. Lancaster is not one of them. Most of the Lancaster area is way too shallow (when it's wade-able) to use anything over 3' on your dropper - even up against the bank. So 24" to 36" in the Lancaster area should work just fine. And, yes, yarn indicators are move able so start at 24" and adjust from there.

The area below the bluffs (and just before the bluffs if you're drifting) is full of some very deep, slow pools where you can extend your dropper to some incredible depths. There are a few killer browns in there, but there's also a lot of deep hidden structure there so you've got to be pretty careful.

Congrats, Trey! You're now suddenly giving back and I think that's great :smile:

Gerry

Worrgamesguy
09-29-2008, 09:38 PM
PS.. What is a Blue Raider anyway?

Middle Tennessee State. I'll be a student there next fall. MTSU has pulled off some upsets lately, so I'm kinda psyched about going there if the football team gets better like it has been doing. But I'm going to be a pilot, and they have one of the top 5 flight teams in the nation.

Listen to you!!

A few posts ago you were whining just like BRF :biggrin: "I can't catch anything on the Caney... where are all the fish?? ... what am I doing wrong??" and now you're offering sound advice!? Where did this come from??

congrats! You're not only addicted, you know what's going on and how to explain it. Very gratifying...

Now for some specifics.

The 12' that Grumpy was referring to was for some specific areas along the Caney's course. Lancaster is not one of them. Most of the Lancaster area is way too shallow (when it's wade-able) to use anything over 3' on your dropper - even up against the bank. So 24" to 36" in the Lancaster area should work just fine. And, yes, yarn indicators are move able so start at 24" and adjust from there.

The area below the bluffs (and just before the bluffs if you're drifting) is full of some very deep, slow pools where you can extend your dropper to some incredible depths. There are a few killer browns in there, but there's also a lot of deep hidden structure there so you've got to be pretty careful.

Congrats, Trey! You're now suddenly giving back and I think that's great :smile:

Gerry

:biggrin:

You've been my mentor for god knows how long now, 5 months? And you've NEVER gotten angry with my questions that I'm sure you've answered a dozen more times than you cared to. Why WOULDN'T I want to give back? Fly fishing has changed my life, it's sad to admit but I LOVE IT!

You want to know what I'm doing next, buddy? Buying 2 kayaks to put in the back of my dad's truck so a friend and I can go float the Caney whenever we want, and not have to wait on my dad so we can cram into the jon boat. I saw a lot of people fly fishing from kayaks, and it seemed like it was a lot of fun.

I swear one day I will find a way to pay you back for all that you've done for me.

fishingman62
09-29-2008, 10:21 PM
hey brf.... i'll add my two cents...this is what works the best for me..... a size 14-16 parchute adams as an indicator....3-4ft of 5x tippet tied to the bend in the hook and a midge which ever color is working or a bhpt tied on as the dropper... this catches fish for me every time i go to the caney... i also always manage a few fish on the adams which is why i use it for my indicator...some of my larger fish have come off the adams...like i said just my two cents but it works ......

BlueRaiderFan
09-29-2008, 11:01 PM
hey brf.... i'll add my two cents...this is what works the best for me..... a size 14-16 parchute adams as an indicator....3-4ft of 5x tippet tied to the bend in the hook and a midge which ever color is working or a bhpt tied on as the dropper... this catches fish for me every time i go to the caney... i also always manage a few fish on the adams which is why i use it for my indicator...some of my larger fish have come off the adams...like i said just my two cents but it works ......


Yeah, I was doing about the same thing except I used a stimulator dry size 18. I think my problem was depth, but it's hard to be certain. One thing is for certain; I wasn't at work. If it were legal, I would spend the night on the bank and wake up and do it again. You have to love a sport where you can tie your own bait and feel like an artist for having done it. I'm still learning, but that's the best part about it. If it came to me easy, I wouldn't appreciate it. It may take me 3 more years, but I'm going to Lancaster every trip until I catch a fish. That's not stubborness, I just know that if I learn to catch on there, I will have learned something. Now if I can just learn to pull money from the mutual funds in my 401K and get them into cash before the bottom drops out like it did today...but that's another story.;)

BlueRaiderFan
09-29-2008, 11:05 PM
Gerry,

Please don't think of it as whining. I'm just trying to gather information and to be honest, yes I am frustrated, but that's o.k. I love to learn new things. I think people have to remember; I'm not in a boat. In my opinion, it is much easier to get a good drift on a fly in a boat with a slack down stream cast close to the bank, than it is while wading. I also don't cover NEARLY as much ground as a person in a boat. Having said that, it's clear I have a lot to learn. For some reason I can see a couple hundred bucks of my money in Grumpy's pocket come next Spring.:rolleyes:

Dwayne

BlueRaiderFan
09-29-2008, 11:09 PM
Trey,

Glad to hear you chose the premier state university in Tennesee to further your education. We also have a nationally ranked Recording Idustry Management program. Don't become close friends with any one that parties a lot. They'll just drag you down. I could have gone to medical school, but I wanted to party too much and now I work in a lab. It's a good job and pays o.k, but it doesn't pay what a doctor makes, that is for certain. Just think; When all the heavy partiers are sleeping it off, you'll be on the river living the good life!;)

Dwayne

Gerry Romer
09-29-2008, 11:11 PM
Grumpy says thank you... but why wait til spring??

Hang in there.. it'll all make sense shortly. Just ask Trey :biggrin: :biggrin:

BlueRaiderFan
09-29-2008, 11:12 PM
Ha! If I'm paying good money, I'm waiting until the fish are biting!:biggrin:

BlueRaiderFan
09-29-2008, 11:16 PM
Trey,

You may as well get that avatar changed!

Go Blue Raiders!

Worrgamesguy
09-29-2008, 11:17 PM
Trey,

Glad to hear you chose the premier state university in Tennesee to further your education. We also have a nationally ranked Recording Idustry Management program. Don't become close friends with any one that parties a lot. They'll just drag you down. I could have gone to medical school, but I wanted to party too much and now I work in a lab. It's a good job and pays o.k, but it doesn't pay what a doctor makes, that is for certain. Just think; When all the heavy partiers are sleeping it off, you'll be on the river living the good life!;)

Dwayne

I've known I was going to MTSU for over 4 years, I love everything about it. And being 20 minutes from my house is a plus.

Grumpy says thank you... but why wait til spring??

Hang in there.. it'll all make sense shortly. Just ask Trey :biggrin: :biggrin:

Haha don't get too confident in me, now. I'm gonna have my fair share of questions that will develop later, but I think now that I have my new setup and leader/tippet knowledge coupled with the right fly selection I will do just fine until one arises. But I appreciate the ego boost :cool:

Gerry Romer
09-29-2008, 11:29 PM
Trey --

You're doing great right now! Get comfortable with the new setup and push yourself to try new things and new areas and you'll be just fine. If I can help with new questions, fire away.

BTW I've been fishing the mountains the last couple of weekends and getting skunked. Well, not really skunked. I've just caught more Smoky Mountain Cutthroat in the last two weeks than I care to count. I'm over it... way over it!

Flat Fly n
09-30-2008, 06:54 AM
OK, now I get it.

I have known about the flight school for years. They have a pretty good club lacrosse team as well. Lost to UT last year by a goal here in K'town.

Good luck with the indicator.

JimmyC
09-30-2008, 07:41 AM
Trey,

Glad to hear you chose the premier state university in Tennesee to further your education.

Dwayne

Yeah, those MTSU grads make good day laborers and always enjoy working for Maryville College alums :biggrin:

BlueRaiderFan
09-30-2008, 08:20 AM
Yeah, those MTSU grads make good day laborers and always enjoy working for Maryville College alums :biggrin:


Yeah, I hear the same thing from the Vandy and Sewanee crowds. We have a game on national TV tongiht on ESPN2. I realize that being a Maryville alum you may not get any exposure to division 1A football, especially on the national level, but check it out anyway.;)

ruggerfly
09-30-2008, 10:35 AM
Sewanee Alum here!!

BlueRaiderFan
09-30-2008, 12:05 PM
Sewanee Alum here!!

Sewanee has to be the most beautiful campus I've ever seen, in person or otherwise. It's small, but it looks like a Thomas Kinkade village :smile: I would love to move up and retire in the neighborhood around campus.

ruggerfly
09-30-2008, 12:18 PM
Yeah, Sewanee is beautiful! The campus and cozy small town are just some of the reasons that I chose to attend (not to mention pretty good academics). When I was at Sewanee, we used to play MTSU in rugby every once in a while--seemed like "pretty good people".

BlueRaiderFan
09-30-2008, 12:37 PM
Yeah, MT used to be for country boys and girls that were mostly first generation college students, but that is changing slowly. I don't think they would let me in there these days. I've worked with a couple of Sewanee grads. Very bright people. I think I may head up there when the leaves change.

Worrgamesguy
09-30-2008, 03:02 PM
Trey --

You're doing great right now! Get comfortable with the new setup and push yourself to try new things and new areas and you'll be just fine. If I can help with new questions, fire away.

BTW I've been fishing the mountains the last couple of weekends and getting skunked. Well, not really skunked. I've just caught more Smoky Mountain Cutthroat in the last two weeks than I care to count. I'm over it... way over it!

Sounds good to me man, I've still got your email. I wish I could buy those kayaks soon that way I could start fishing.

OK, now I get it.

I have known about the flight school for years. They have a pretty good club lacrosse team as well. Lost to UT last year by a goal here in K'town.

Good luck with the indicator.

Haha you got it bud. MTSU is AWESOME in aerospace, my dad was the flight team captain about 20 years ago.

ruggerfly
09-30-2008, 03:03 PM
BRF,

FYI, that previous comment of mine was meant as a compliment.

BlueRaiderFan
09-30-2008, 07:17 PM
BRF,

FYI, that previous comment of mine was meant as a compliment.

Sure! I knew that!:smile: I try and keep it light and take everyone's post that way and hope that they take mine that way. I only get upset if a person attacks my character e.g, work ethic, constitution etc. No problems;)

BlueRaiderFan
09-30-2008, 07:23 PM
I'm a big jokester...I try and rib people on occasion, but it's always in good fun. I never hurt a persons feelings intentionally.;)

BlueRaiderFan
09-30-2008, 07:53 PM
Yeah, those MTSU grads make good day laborers and always enjoy working for Maryville College alums :biggrin:


Hey, don't you have a house to restore or somethin'? :rolleyes:

JimmyC
09-30-2008, 08:05 PM
I realize that being a Maryville alum you may not get any exposure to division 1A football, especially on the national level, but check it out anyway.;)
Hey, I went to UT for grad school ... now, when I was there, they played a liittle football. But we all know its a basketball school now! I have a good friend from Murfreesboro, went to MTSU. We went to a few football games there and a few more bars. And we all know that Maryville High can whoop Maryville College at football!

BlueRaiderFan
09-30-2008, 09:23 PM
Grad school? What are you some kinda Einstein or somethin'? Besides, you have to claim your undergrad team!

Worrgamesguy
09-30-2008, 10:40 PM
Hey, I went to UT for grad school ... now, when I was there, they played a liittle football. But we all know its a basketball school now! I have a good friend from Murfreesboro, went to MTSU. We went to a few football games there and a few more bars. And we all know that Maryville High can whoop Maryville College at football!

Maryville High is actually in the Top 100 High School teams in the nation. I forget which number exactly. The only other TN team is Montgomery Bell Academy. My cousin goes to an all girl's school in Louisville, and the all boys version of her school is number 31. Insanity...

JimmyC
10-01-2008, 12:20 PM
Grad school? What are you some kinda Einstein or somethin'? Besides, you have to claim your undergrad team!


Dang it!

I was at UT, 98-2000... I claim those years!

E = MC^Skunked, Smart a--!

BlueRaiderFan
10-01-2008, 03:41 PM
Dang it!

I was at UT, 98-2000... I claim those years!

E = MC^Skunked, Smart a--!

Nice...I really appreciate the support.:mad: Now I'm going to have to go below the dam and catch a big un'!

Worrgamesguy
10-01-2008, 06:52 PM
Nice...I really appreciate the support.:mad: Now I'm going to have to go below the dam and catch a big un'!

I doubt you'll find a big one under the dam, the nearest spot to the dam would be at the end of the path next to the stairs they just built. I saw a good 24"+ brown next to some fallen logs not even 50 feet from the bottom of the stairs. There were other fish hanging around and he would come out of his lay to run them off every so often. This was back when I was beginning to fly fish, and slapped the water on every cast, I doubt now I could even catch him. It is more than gratifying showing up at 6:00 at Happy Hollow to SLAY brookies.