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BlueRaiderFan
02-15-2009, 09:14 PM
Got this off of another board posted by Grumpy:

They shocked from the dam to Happy recently & turned up 1 24" brown in that whole stretch as "big fish", they've either migrated down or bubba has hauled them all out. I've watched them shock before & they do a thorough job.


:eek:

Flat Fly n
02-15-2009, 10:24 PM
As long as it's legal, "bubba" has that right. I would rather see a big fish thrown in a cooler to be eaten later, than these sports "play" a 16" fish for 15 min. and then quickly release them back only to die.

Bubba pays for his stamp as well and as long as he is within the law i.e. the slots and limits, who cares.

Those fish are still there. Do you think TWRA and all there shocking efforts knew that monster was in the S. Holston?

BlueRaiderFan
02-15-2009, 10:40 PM
I don't think there are that many Browns in that area. I've elecrto shocked for fish before and it's fairly thorough, then again, that is a big river. I think the Caney should have a longer minimum on browns and brooks and maybe a catch a release only section. Nothing wrong with taking a legal fish. I just think that most fly fishermen would release rather than keep a large brown. Playing a fish to exhaustion for fun is definitely wrong. My family has bubba's and world class engineers and diplomats. All good people. I think Grumpy was refering to the local guys that poach on the Caney. I've seen it myself. I don't think it was directed at a socioeconomic group in general. Grumpy does not come across as elitist to me. Just my 2 cents.

David Knapp
02-15-2009, 11:59 PM
Last fall's spawn was very unfortunate on the Caney. I believe there are still decent numbers of large fish but LOTS of them were taken out by catch and keep crowd because the fish were so easy to target when they were on the shoals... I would be strongly in favor of closing portions of the Caney during the spawn like they do on the SoHo even if the fish aren't spawning very successfully just to protect the adult fish while they are vulnerable...

waterwolf
02-16-2009, 12:05 AM
Having ridden the front a shocking boat many many times on the Clinch, and seeing how effective it can be at getting a good understand of what is around, I believe them. The Caney got so much pressure last year, and is much smaller then the CLinch, it is easy to see how they could be gone.

When we used to shock the Clinch 3 nights a week, we would turn some massive fish. Biggest two being 33.5 lbs and 34 lbs. This was back in the mid 90's, and I do not think that there are as many that size as there used to be.

With that said, even though TWRA took a baby step forward, we are still a long way away from properly managing our tailwaters.

milligan trout degree
02-16-2009, 02:16 AM
Those fish are still there. Do you think TWRA and all there shocking efforts knew that monster was in the S. Holston?


Yea I do believe they knew fish like that were/are there.

ChemEAngler
02-16-2009, 12:21 PM
As long as it's legal, "bubba" has that right. I would rather see a big fish thrown in a cooler to be eaten later, than these sports "play" a 16" fish for 15 min. and then quickly release them back only to die.


That is quite frustrating. One time on the Clinch this guy across the river had a fish on that made multiple long distance runs. I mean this guy's drag was screaming as the fish tore downstream. When he finally landed it, about 10 minutes later, it was every bit of 13". All I can figure is that he had his drag set so low that he and everybody around could hear it sing....

Regarding people keeping fish, as long as they are within the limits of the law, I don't have a problem with it. Now, I do have a problem with somebody keeping a limit of 24" fish that they caught while on redds. To me that is not ethical. However, I do keep the TWRA poacher hotline on my cell in the event that I do see something illegal.

snaildarter
02-16-2009, 12:51 PM
I'll just remind everyone that the trout in the Caney Fork are all stockers. They can't reproduce there, unlike the hordes of big smallmouth that the dam mostly eliminated. They are only there because TWRA rasises them on trout chow and dumps them off a truck into the river. Much more like an agricultural operation than some wild, freeflowing trout river. To me it's irrelevant whether the trout are caught on corn and hauled out by Bubba, shot with a bow and arrow, gigged off a red, or caught on 5x and gently released. It's like hunting on a stocked game farm: fun and all that, but morality has got nothing to do with it. I rarely fish tailwaters that are too screwed up to have natually reproducing fish. To each his own, I guess.

BlueRaiderFan
02-16-2009, 01:00 PM
Some trout on the Caney must survive to reach the limits that they do. I've seen some large browns come out of that river that obviously survived a couple of years or so. No way they let them get 20" plus in the TWRA tanks. Most riviers in Tennessee depend on stocking trout to allow fishing for them. Unless I go to the Smokies, I can't fish for wild trout in Tennessee, that I know of. I see no problem with having a catch and release only section on that river. Some of the trout released in it do survive and grow to large sizes.

David Knapp
02-16-2009, 01:27 PM
I'll just remind everyone that the trout in the Caney Fork are all stockers. They can't reproduce there, unlike the hordes of big smallmouth that the dam mostly eliminated. They are only there because TWRA rasises them on trout chow and dumps them off a truck into the river. Much more like an agricultural operation than some wild, freeflowing trout river. To me it's irrelevant whether the trout are caught on corn and hauled out by Bubba, shot with a bow and arrow, gigged off a red, or caught on 5x and gently released. It's like hunting on a stocked game farm: fun and all that, but morality has got nothing to do with it. I rarely fish tailwaters that are too screwed up to have natually reproducing fish. To each his own, I guess.


The Caney Fork brown trout will spawn and based off of last fall, they can do it successfully if we could just get some consistent low flows for a long enough period of time... The large browns would still be throughout the upper river if the majority weren't taken off of redds while they were vulnerable...

snaildarter
02-16-2009, 01:39 PM
Some trout on the Caney must survive to reach the limits that they do.
Yes, of course that's true. So maybe it would be fairest to divide up the trout stamp money by percentage of those want to eat trout vs those who want their sterile stockers to die of old age. I don't know what the actual percentages are, but you could divide up the river by who's money pays for more trout to be stocked. That seems fair. Although you would then have a big argument about who gets what stretch of river. Maybe it's just best for each side to continue to lobby and complain and about the other, which sorta keeps everything in a middle ground.

snaildarter
02-16-2009, 02:03 PM
The Caney Fork brown trout will spawn and based off of last fall, they can do it successfully if we could just get some consistent low flows for a long enough period of time... The large browns would still be throughout the upper river if the majority weren't taken off of redds while they were vulnerable...
If this or that... If the Caney had natural reproduction, it would be managed quite differently. I think it would be wonderful if they would manage the flows in such a way as to let reproduction happen. But you are describing a situation that does not exist. Not yet anyway. The question is currently just about deciding under what circumstances the stockers will die and be replaced with new stockers.

I would love it if we are able to turn the Caney into something other than what it is. But it is what it is. We can change the regulations to suit a naturally reproducing fishery if it actually becomes that some day. Till then, regulations are only about how to make the most people happy with limited hatchery resources.

David Knapp
02-16-2009, 02:48 PM
If you bothered to actually fish the Caney or even look at it in the fall, you would know that there is at least some natural reproduction and would be more if people would leave the fish alone...

Flat Fly n
02-16-2009, 03:19 PM
If the numbers are down it's from greed. Last fall on a website called tndeer.com in the fishing section a guy was posting the maps with all the spawning sections and how to fish them. He was obviously stupid and probably did alot of harm to the river by doing so. Needless to say he caught alot of grief over this. Did his stupidity and greed of others hurt the Caney, who knows.

IF there were a lot of big fish harvested in the fall and the river is down, AND the baitfishermen and flyfishermen get together to complain, then maybe TWRA will see the the advantage of controlled harvest or closed sections during the spawn on the Caney as it should be. They close the S. Holston, and Arkansas closes the the White. Surely TWRA can the the advantages to closing a section during a spawn or even a false spawn. These fish are the most in danger of greed on the part of some "fishermen", whether it be from cooler fishermen to guys playing a big fish too long that dies in the end, or worst yet, those that practice snagging over fish on redds.

BlueRaiderFan
02-16-2009, 03:42 PM
I don't mind fihsermen keeping stockers. It's the larger fish that it would be nice to leave in the river. It would also be nice to leave the beds off limits during spawning season. They can repoduce under current conditions if left alone. No flow changes are neccessary. Some flow changes would be nice. If we had a catch and release section and left the fish alone during the spawn, people could keep some fish if they want and fly fishermen could catch more large fish. Both sides win. As far as who gets what section, any section of catch and release would be better than none. Just pick a half mile or so within 3-4 miles of the dam.

BlueRaiderFan
02-16-2009, 03:53 PM
It's easy to make things difficult and compromises hard to reach, if one side decides they don't want to cooperate.

snaildarter
02-16-2009, 04:06 PM
If you bothered to actually fish the Caney or even look at it in the fall, you would know that there is at least some natural reproduction and would be more if people would leave the fish alone...
:smile: OK, OK, sorry to get you all ruffled. I did fish the Caney perhaps 50 times up until about 2000, when I decided that it seemed more like fishing at a trout farm and with no privacy. If others don't see it that way, then good for you.

What I do know is that the TWRA considers trout reproduction in the Caney to be "extremely rare," and that trout must be stocked for there to be any in there. Combine that with the tons of pressure that it gets, I feel quite comfortable thinking that the amount of wild born fish in there is about zero. For any who want to understand why the TWRA has this view, you could look at this:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.state.tn.us%2Ftwra%2Ffish%2FS treamRiver%2Ftailtrout%2FCenter%2520Hill.pdf&ei=0LmZSd3DHYKqsAPY0dWMAQ&usg=AFQjCNEjkKMi5ZWA87qruXE7RGwRZzafJA&sig2=N130sb2w0d8rVJOVJPQktQ

Just seeing some trout on redds doesn't mean anything. Most stocked trout will *try* to reproduce; it's the succeeding part that's hard. A nest full of fertilized eggs still isn't going to survive the winter and spring in the Caney. If you believe that your seeing trout on redds methodology is better than what the biologists come up with, I invite you to make your case.

Getting back to the regs, if pretending that trout are successfully reproducing in there helps you to make your case that the fishing regs should change, then OK, that is your belief, and I encourage you to spread it to all that will hear.

But I think maybe what you are really trying to say is that since yanking a stocker off a redd is so easy, that the benefit that the yanker gets from doing it is far less than the benefit you get from trying to fish for it over the following months (maybe years). That to me is a good argument. Maybe you are saying that you feel entitled to fish for large browns vs. Yanker Joe's entitlement to take large browns home to eat (small trout taste just as good or better). That also seems like a good argument. But in the end, it is not about natural reproduction; it is about making the most people happy with the stockers that the TWRA puts in there.

If we are want to make trout reproduce naturally in the Caney, then we need to engage the entity responsible for that: The Corps of Engineers. If we then succeed at getting trout to reproduce naturally, we can then come up with correspondingly appropriate fishing regulations. That's all I'm trying to say.

Grannyknot
02-16-2009, 04:23 PM
Maybe they could start periodically checking people's licenses and stamps?


After spending the past 2 weekends on the clinch, I can't believe there is any fish left in that river from the number of crowded stringers I saw.

BlueRaiderFan
02-16-2009, 05:00 PM
Just having a catch and release section will allow the stocked fish to survive long enough to grow to a nice size.

ChemEAngler
02-16-2009, 06:50 PM
Maybe they could start periodically checking people's licenses and stamps?


After spending the past 2 weekends on the clinch, I can't believe there is any fish left in that river from the number of crowded stringers I saw.

I will say it again. If TWRA would accept volunteers to patrol the rivers and issue citations, I would jump at the chance. I just had a co-worker tell me that he and his buddy went over there this past weekend and each caught a limit. He was even bragging about the 17" brown they had for dinner. And he is aware of the regs! We have talked about them many times.

I am sure the same problem exists on the Caney as well.

David Knapp
02-16-2009, 08:40 PM
Snaildarter, I hope I didn't offend you with my comments. I know TWRA doesn't think that the trout are doing much reproduction in the Caney but that is the same thing they thought about the SoHo for years and likewise what KY Dept. of Fish and Wildlife thought about the Cumberland...

Yanking any fish off a redd is easy including wild fish so I don't buy the stocker versus wild fish argument which is why there are closures on some of the truly great rivers like the SoHo. Fish are vulnerable during the spawn wild or not and should be protected regardless of whether or not they are successful. Yes, I do believe that it is unethical to keep fish that are caught off of redds but that's just me and I know most people don't hold the same standards... If you can't catch 'em when they are at their toughest, you don't deserve to take home a stringer full when they are easy...once again, strictly my opinion so take it with a grain of salt...;)

I agree that it would be nice to get some form of steady flows during the fall and winter to protect the eggs and fry. If I knew how to get started working towards that goal I would do it in a minute although I fear the solution just won't happen in my lifetime due to the "powers that be." If you have any suggestions to me to work towards this goal, please let me know. The Caney has the potential to be a great river if we could just get the regs adjusted. TWRA has taken steps in the right direction with the minimum length limit and I hope that they continue working towards solutions that will enhance the fishery for all.

txbrown
02-16-2009, 09:40 PM
ChemEAngler,

I think like you do. I guess we Chem E's think alike. I fish the Caney regularly and have said that I wish I had a badge multiple times. Saturday, my son and I saw at least 4 stringers with undersized browns on them. And a couple had more than 7 fish. The issue that the TWRA will probably quote is that we could endanger ourselves with writing citations. Several people I know carry cell phones and speed dial known violations. The issue is too much river and too little enforcement resource.

Flat Fly N nailed it when he talked about greed. Some people will use up the resources God has blessed this state with and don't give a hoot about others or the future. I like catching big trout the same as anyone else. I have caught my fair share of large fish on the Caney and returned them hopefully in shape to fight again. If someone wants to keep a few fish to eat, that's fine. Just use common sense, obey the regs and don't be greedy.

BTW, bluegill are a blast to catch on a 2 or 3wt or light spinning, taste better and are not in short supply.

Flat Fly n
02-16-2009, 10:49 PM
Enjoy the "other" side of the arguement.....

These are some of the good old boys that published the info on the spawning redds from this fall now complaining that the big fish are gone. If you care you can go back into this past summer and check out the info this idiot gave away.. No wonder if TWRA is correct that the fish are being effected.

http://www.tndeer.com/tndeertalk/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1183817&page=1&nt=2&fpart=1

Let's try to stay above this on re: this arguement.

buzzmcmanus
02-16-2009, 11:32 PM
Saturday, my son and I saw at least 4 stringers with undersized browns on them. And a couple had more than 7 fish. The issue that the TWRA will probably quote is that we could endanger ourselves with writing citations. Several people I know carry cell phones and speed dial known violations.
Just curious, did you call the poachers hotline when you saw this?

BlueRaiderFan
02-17-2009, 12:52 AM
Any one have that number?

buzzmcmanus
02-17-2009, 08:28 AM
Region I 800-831-1173
Region II 800-255-8972
Region III 800-241-0767
Region IV 800-831-1174

I would think the Caney would be in Region II, however it may be in Region III. I've only fished it once.

TNFishnstix
02-17-2009, 09:09 AM
Region I 800-831-1173
Region II 800-255-8972
Region III 800-241-0767
Region IV 800-831-1174

I would think the Caney would be in Region II, however it may be in Region III. I've only fished it once.


The Caney is actually in 2 regions, but is monitored and enforced typically by Region II. This debate on the regs, spawning, etc. has been ongoing for some time. I have fished this river for a long long time and it is my personal belief that there is some reproduction that is taking place since we now have a river that can sustain trout over a period of years and not just from season to season. We now have more consistent water temperatures as is proven by the results of the new min. flow sluice gates and registered on the Corps website at Stonewall, some 16 or 17 miles downstream. We have higher dissolved oxygen content then the river has ever had. Even during periods of no generation, the river is about 3 to 4 inches higher than it ever has been and that is recorded on the Corps websites.

The bottom line is that the full spectrum of fishermen from the Clampett's, to Sir Reginald Tweedjacket have to follow the rules and regulations for this river to be a viable resource in the future. That includes the fishing regulations, and the boating regulations which are often abused here as well. It's ok to have varied opinions about what the river is capable of doing and sustaining, that is how we keep things in check. I say, enforce the regulations and impose stiffer fines that sends the message that whomever you are, however you fish this river, you will respect the laws or you will pay the penalty. then once you get that in check, change the regulations to new regulations that will ensure the survival of this resource for years to come. If not, it will become just another tailwater that moves water from one dam to the next.

BlueRaiderFan
02-17-2009, 11:49 AM
Region I 800-831-1173
Region II 800-255-8972
Region III 800-241-0767
Region IV 800-831-1174

I would think the Caney would be in Region II, however it may be in Region III. I've only fished it once.

Thank You, buzz.

snaildarter
02-17-2009, 11:50 AM
... from the Clampett's, to Sir Reginald Tweedjacket...
That made me laugh out loud. Gonna have to find a way to work that into a conversation some time.

chad134
02-17-2009, 08:53 PM
i see a lot of fishermen on the caney. has anyone heard any more about the repairs that the army core is going to have to do to Center Hill? I heard at one point they will have to lower the lake to a point below the crack/hole in the dam and mountain so low that it will kill all the trout? i have not heard anything new for a while now. anyone know any updates. if it is true none of us will be worried about Bubba taking his limit.

BlueRaiderFan
02-17-2009, 09:30 PM
Sounds reasonable that they will have to go down to where the crack is. I don't think any one is concerned that people take their limit. Most fly fishermen want A) A catch and release section B) Larger size limit on the fish C) No fishing when the fish are spawning, or at least catch and release only for them when they are spawning. That would still leave plenty of fish for those that want to take their limit and would satisfy those of us that want larger fish and to give the population a chance, however small, to repoduce on their own.

TNFishnstix
02-17-2009, 11:53 PM
.... has anyone heard any more about the repairs that the army core is going to have to do to Center Hill? I heard at one point they will have to lower the lake to a point below the crack/hole in the dam and mountain so low that it will kill all the trout? ..

Direct from the Corps Web Site. There is a lot to be learned from what they have on this site about the construction and what is planned.

Lake Levels throughout Construction

The seepage problems are made worse during continual high lake levels; therefore, maintaining lower lake elevations is necessary until we get a permanent remedy in place.

Since March of 2005, we have attempted to keep fall, winter and early spring lake levels from extreme rises. We have also attempted to operate the lake on the low end of our normal annual operating band. During construction, however, the Corps plans to target Center Hill Lake levels between elevation 630 feet above mean sea level (msl) in the summer and no lower than elevation 618 msl during the late fall and early winter.

These elevations are approximately five to ten feet lower than recent pool operating levels, and as much as eighteen feet lower than normal operating levels. During the five year repair period, this interim pool operation will be periodically re-evaluated to determine if Center Hill Lake can be safely raised, maintained, or if further lowering is necessary to ensure safety.

The chosen levels are the result of an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) developed over the past year. The EIS evaluated potential impacts caused by each of nine lake level alternatives.

The process included consideration of safety concerns, potential impact to project purposes, and the views of the State of Tennessee, other federal agencies, affected stakeholders, and the public. The goal of the EIS was to identify an alternative that balanced the safety of the downstream human and natural environment against the reduction of project benefits from water supply, water quality, recreation, navigation, and hydropower.

bugg
02-18-2009, 01:48 AM
Just my opinion, but not letting someone fish for spawning browns is like not letting hunters hunt deer during the rut or turkeys in the spring...

BlueRaiderFan
02-18-2009, 08:34 AM
Just my opinion, but not letting someone fish for spawning browns is like not letting hunters hunt deer during the rut or turkeys in the spring...

Except that the deer and turkeys aren't raised in pens and deer and turkeys don't take their entire local population to one specific field and reproduce basically all at once. I don't understand the problem with this. These fish are very easy to catch the rest of the year. If I can catch them, any one can. It's not like we are saying "don't catch them and keep them at all." Why not use a little sound judgment so that every one has a decent shot at a large fish and at a time when they are not the most vulnerable, like a good sportsman? Take the other 11 months of the year and keep your limit.

Speckleman5
02-18-2009, 09:02 AM
Then the rainbows run at a different time. Fishing is closed the month of march here in NC in public water. What about the park? Lake run fish run up out of Fontana and other lakes, I tink there just needs to be a little enforcement done, a few more checks and tickets written.

David Knapp
02-18-2009, 09:50 AM
Just like on the SoHo, there is plenty of good spawning shoals and it would be easy to close some of the most crucial while leaving others open to fishing. The big difference between fishing for spawners on the Caney and on the SoHo is that most everyone releases their fish on the SoHo while most bait guys are taking the large fish on the Caney... My problem is not with fishing for them as much as it is everyone and their brother taking 2-3 of the large fish. When everyone on the river does that, there just aren't too many large fish left and then a few months later they all want to know why the fishing isn't good anymore...:frown:

white95v6
02-18-2009, 10:33 AM
i catch and release during spawning is fine with me.

also a increase in the rainbow size would be nice. i mean bump it up to 14 inches. i think that would help them out alot.

also i don't think i seen a slot limit idea thrown in here. like 18-24inches for browns? just ideas

also just throwing this out there. everytime i go to the caney 6 times last yr and once this yr soo far. i have caught atleast one brown over 20inches. sometimes two or three per trip.

David Knapp
02-18-2009, 12:52 PM
also a increase in the rainbow size would be nice. i mean bump it up to 14 inches. i think that would help them out alot.

also i don't think i seen a slot limit idea thrown in here. like 18-24inches for browns? just ideas

These are excellent ideas...especially the slot limit on browns. Could just make it a trophy brown fishery and release all fish under 22" or 24" instead of 18". Like I've seen someone mention either on here or on other boards, the 18" minimum has made it a fishery full of 17" browns...nice to catch but a bunch of 20"-24" fish would provide more fun for all.

white95v6
02-18-2009, 02:27 PM
These are excellent ideas...especially the slot limit on browns. Could just make it a trophy brown fishery and release all fish under 22" or 24" instead of 18". Like I've seen someone mention either on here or on other boards, the 18" minimum has made it a fishery full of 17" browns...nice to catch but a bunch of 20"-24" fish would provide more fun for all.

i agree. i love to fish the caney and catch ALOT of 14-16inch browns. think what it would be like with a slot.

and the same goes for the rainbows. it would make the rainbow fishing there Crazy good.

i mean i know you will still have alot of foul hooked fish(bait fishing). but over all i think it would help the river alot.

also i think it would be good for the state to increase the limits on the rainbow and browns in all tailwaters. i mean come on a 7inch fish is a minnow. why not bump it to 12 or 14inches. think what that would do for the Elk and Duck and alot of other tailwaters in our state.

ChemEAngler
02-18-2009, 06:13 PM
Good luck on the slot guys. It could happen, but just look at how heated the discussion got when proposing it on the Clinch. Plus the fact that the Caney is the primary coldwater fishery in that area, you are going to have an even greater percentage of meat fishermen who focus on that tailwater. Luckily it got passed on the Clinch, and the fishery has been improving ever since. Now it just needs a little more enforcement.

The guy who insists on the water that a 12" trout tastes better than a 18" trout, is the same guy who will be fighting against a 14-20" slot limit. Some people just don't like regulations or change.

fishingman62
02-18-2009, 06:14 PM
i have been fishing the caney since i moved back to crossville last june....throughout the summer the fishing was extreamly good... it was an average day to catch 2-3 dozen fish...from 10 -14 inches... during this time i would find each weekend and even my week day off increasing numbers of fisherman...and with more people came more declining catches...and the number of 16inch and up fish has dwindled alot....as a matter of fact just this past sunday we came across 3 people at happy hollow with a stringer full of undersized browns... some guy that was with his sons let the fish go ....lol... good for him a bit braver than i those folks could have had a gun lol lol...it would be nice to see some out of uniform patrol fishing the river ...or at least walking around with a rod blending in and writing people up for illeagle fish....im sure there is some natural reproduction on the river but i would think the heavy discharge we saw this fall would keep it to a minimum..trout will surprise you with the spawning abilities..being from erie pa. the biologist tryed to tell us that the stocked steelhead trout that make their fall migration did not spawn but the small stream next to where i lived will tell another story...i so i agree that a catch and release season is a good idea from say sept - nov..and drop the legal limit during the rest of the season and raise the size on rainbows to a 10 inch minimum...then see if we can get the tva and the twra to work together to find a happy medium for generations during the fall spawn .... my 2 cents being said who is ready to get together and form some kind of informal group and find a way to get our ideas in front of the twra and the tva...send me an email at fishingman62@hotmail.com ...and lets see what we can do to preserve this great tn river..

Worrgamesguy
02-18-2009, 08:46 PM
These are excellent ideas...especially the slot limit on browns. Could just make it a trophy brown fishery and release all fish under 22" or 24" instead of 18". Like I've seen someone mention either on here or on other boards, the 18" minimum has made it a fishery full of 17" browns...nice to catch but a bunch of 20"-24" fish would provide more fun for all.

I'd like that, because then I might have a chance at catching one :rolleyes:

My biggest fish is still an 18" rainbow.

white95v6
02-19-2009, 10:16 AM
Good luck on the slot guys. It could happen, but just look at how heated the discussion got when proposing it on the Clinch. Plus the fact that the Caney is the primary coldwater fishery in that area, you are going to have an even greater percentage of meat fishermen who focus on that tailwater. Luckily it got passed on the Clinch, and the fishery has been improving ever since. Now it just needs a little more enforcement.

The guy who insists on the water that a 12" trout tastes better than a 18" trout, is the same guy who will be fighting against a 14-20" slot limit. Some people just don't like regulations or change.

you are right it would be easy. but i don't keep a trout thats 7-10'' just too small to mess with. now those 12-15'' fish to me are about the right eating size.

the first time i floated the caney last yr. i seen two fisherman with two stringers full or 7-10'' trout. and i was like man those things are hardly worth keeping. i mean i know they eat fine. but i would like alittle more meat.

flyred06
02-19-2009, 01:21 PM
My largest is a 17 1/2" rainbow. I would love to hook into a 22" + brown. That would be awesome. I like some of yalls ideas on this.

white95v6
02-19-2009, 05:46 PM
My largest is a 17 1/2" rainbow. I would love to hook into a 22" + brown. That would be awesome. I like some of yalls ideas on this.

its great. just takes some time and patiance.

we floated the caney two weeks ago.and caught about 50 fish. and one brown was 21inches and a few where right at 18. and a few rainbows and that pushed 17-18.

Grumpy
02-20-2009, 09:03 AM
TWRA is taking comments on what you would like to see as far as regulations go, you've posted them here, how about here:
twra.comments@state.tn.us

Email them with your opinions, save it to file & send it once a week;)

Grumpy

white95v6
02-20-2009, 09:51 AM
TWRA is taking comments on what you would like to see as far as regulations go, you've posted them here, how about here:
twra.comments@state.tn.us

Email them with your opinions, save it to file & send it once a week;)

Grumpy


great. i will do just that.

ChemEAngler
02-20-2009, 10:56 AM
TWRA is taking comments on what you would like to see as far as regulations go, you've posted them here, how about here:
twra.comments@state.tn.us

Email them with your opinions, save it to file & send it once a week;)

Grumpy

I know that this was the first step that many of us wanting a slot limit on the Clinch took a couple years ago. Don't think your comments will go unnoticed. I received a follow-up email shortly afterward from someone stating that the outpouring of comments on the Clinch River was overwhelming.

Pound them with comments and suggestions, it will only take 5 minutes of your time. Who knows the right person may see it and propose a change to Caney regs.

TNFishnstix
02-20-2009, 02:09 PM
TWRA also openly invites the public to attend their commission meetings and will recognize and listen to what is said if you attend. 2009 changes have already been incorporated. Beginning in late March or Early April, they will be soliciting input for proposals to 2010 changes. Organizing and providing information and ideas to them is a good idea. First steps are to get an agreement on proposals. If there is general consensus of opinon on what needs to be changed in regulations, there is a lot better chance of getting approval and positive action.

white95v6
02-20-2009, 02:57 PM
that TWRA email did not work.

Grumpy
02-20-2009, 07:55 PM
that TWRA email did not work.


It worked from mine:confused:

Grumpy

irfishing
02-20-2009, 10:22 PM
The email address worked for me.
Just sent suggestions for consideration.
Will see what happens.

white95v6
02-21-2009, 06:19 PM
It worked from mine:confused:

Grumpy


hmm i will try again. i got a returned mail thing.

Grumpy
02-21-2009, 11:02 PM
hmm i will try again. i got a returned mail thing.

hmm, i got the same thing today:mad:

Grumpy

white95v6
02-23-2009, 01:50 PM
hmm, i got the same thing today:mad:

Grumpy

yea me too. i tried it again. and got it returned to me.

BlueRaiderFan
02-23-2009, 03:47 PM
Write the governor:

phil.bredesen@state.tn.us (phil.bredesen@state.tn.us)

TNFishnstix
02-23-2009, 04:41 PM
I think that email address was only used during their solicitation of ideas for the '09 season. If you keep an eye on the TWRA web site you should see another in the spring when they start planning for 2010. Still a lot of time to get a good general consensus of what needs to be done until that happens. It will take a lot of folks saying the same thing to make it happen. If 1,000 people submit 1,000 different request then not any of it will happen. But if 200 - 250 people all ask for the same thing, it has a good chance of making it.

BlueRaiderFan
02-23-2009, 04:48 PM
We should pick one river and focus on it.

white95v6
02-23-2009, 05:31 PM
also i think my idea of a slot limit maybe wrong compared to what we have in tn.

like in FL for the red fish you can keep 1 redfish between i think its 17'' and 27''. thats my idea of a slot limit.


soo when i say a slot limit of 20-24. those would be the ones to keep. and release all others. i know thats a bummer for those wanting to catch a state/world record.



focusing on one river is not a bad idea. but think of our other streams and tailwaters that support trout yr round. think how they could be improved with a simple increase to 12inches.

BlueRaiderFan
02-23-2009, 05:51 PM
We don't want to appear to be all over the place when they read the e mails. I guess we could pick two?:confused:

David Knapp
02-23-2009, 05:59 PM
Last week, I sent an email to TWRA about regulation change proposals and how to go about the process. Here is the reply from Frank Fist:

Mr. Knapp,
We request angler comments annually in April. Simply email TWRA.comment@state.tn.us (TWRA.comment@state.tn.us).
This is good time to tell the biologists what you like and do not like about your favorite fisheries. We use these comments to get a sense of problems or support for new directions in management across the state. This is your best time describe a problem and offer solutions. We typically get a 50-150 comments a year. You do not have to have a large group of supporters to comment- it's not a vote.

Your next opportunity is in the Fall when regulations are proposed to the Commission. If you see something you like, email a supporting letter, if you don't like what is being proposed (or that something is not being proposed) you should tell us that also.

You can also call your regional office to discuss issues at a specific tailwater, or contact the Nashville office (Jason.Henegar@state.tn.us (Jason.Henegar@state.tn.us)) for statewide issues.

We look forward to your comments. Thanks for your concern.
Frank.



That email (the one in the email above) should work but it looks like April is the month they normally want to be receiving the suggestions. I'm sure a few early ones won't hurt though. The part I want to point out to everyone is that they normally only receive 50-150 comments a year. As he says, it isn't a vote but if enough people care about the same issue that has to count for something. Come on guys and gals...at the least send in an email that says you want to see the Caney Fork continue to improve as a trout fishery. I believe it can be a trophy brown trout fishery with the proper regulations and a little enforcement (or trophy trout in general but the folks that keep fish have to have something they can keep). As others have suggested it would also be nice to see a slot limit on the rainbows or at least a minimum size limit. That river can really grow fish quickly if given the opportunity...

By the way, the email you were using is almost correct, just a very small difference...

BlueRaiderFan
02-23-2009, 08:15 PM
Plateu Angler,

Will you take charge and remind us in April?

BRF

Worrgamesguy
02-23-2009, 10:28 PM
We should pick one river and focus on it.

The Caney, definitely. It needs the most help. I'm sure a slot limit or lowering the daily limit would put out down a lot of fishermen, and make it a less crowded but more quality fishery. We can do this guys! :smile:

Grumpy
02-23-2009, 11:06 PM
The Caney, definitely. It needs the most help. I'm sure a slot limit or lowering the daily limit would put out down a lot of fishermen, and make it a less crowded but more quality fishery. We can do this guys! :smile:

We need enforcement, regs alone will not work!

Grumpy

David Knapp
02-24-2009, 01:04 AM
We need enforcement, regs alone will not work!

Grumpy

Gotta agree with Grumpy on this one...if there was more enforcement of the existing regs it would help a lot I think.

TNFishnstix
02-24-2009, 09:16 AM
We need enforcement, regs alone will not work!

Grumpy

Grumpy is 100% right. If we had solid reinforcement with penalties that made a difference in someone's decision to break the rules, then the addition of more regulations may not be needed with the exception of slot limits, and culling fish. Patrolling a 27 mile river with 2 agents makes it an almost impossible task to catch violators on a consistent basis. I remember times of seeing several agents on the river at one time when there were less people fishing than there are now.

I think one of the most important things that could be done to help them is for everyone that carries a cell phone on the river has the TWRA hotline number already in the phone and makes the call when they observe violations. TWRA suggests that making direct contact with perpetrators should not be done, and I agree.

Another issue that keeps coming up is the addition of a Trophy section on the river. That won't happen as long as the Smith County ordinance is standing. They passed a law that says that no regulation may be applied to a section of the river that does not apply to the whole river.

Having a unified goal is still the key in accomplishing change.

Grumpy
02-24-2009, 09:22 AM
Now that we have the e-mail addy straight, let's email what we've seen on the river as far as "law breaking" goes.
We need more enforcement, we see the regs being broke every trip & that is part of TWRA's job, to protect & preserve wildlife;)
I have witnessed first hand why regs work in neighboring states, enforcement! I can't begin to count the # of folks that come in & say they've never been checked for a license:frown:
I'm not blaming the officers, they have to do what they're told to do & that is cover the lake & a huge area of hunting territory. We need more officers, bottom line & then they don't receive a lot of money on a fine paid in the court system, the court system receives the biggest chunk of change.
What we have is "repeated" offenders that are getting away with this, if caught poaching "big game" repeatedly, they lose guns, vehicles , hunting privleges & even jail time, i would expect no less for a fish poacher.
Then again, is the court system doing it's part for the violators coming before them:confused:

Grumpy

Gerry Romer
02-24-2009, 12:20 PM
Now that we have the e-mail addy straight, let's email what we've seen on the river as far as "law breaking" goes.
We need more enforcement, we see the regs being broke every trip & that is part of TWRA's job, to protect & preserve wildlife;)
I have witnessed first hand why regs work in neighboring states, enforcement! I can't begin to count the # of folks that come in & say they've never been checked for a license:frown:
I'm not blaming the officers, they have to do what they're told to do & that is cover the lake & a huge area of hunting territory. We need more officers, bottom line & then they don't receive a lot of money on a fine paid in the court system, the court system receives the biggest chunk of change.
What we have is "repeated" offenders that are getting away with this, if caught poaching "big game" repeatedly, they lose guns, vehicles , hunting privleges & even jail time, i would expect no less for a fish poacher.
Then again, is the court system doing it's part for the violators coming before them:confused:

Grumpy

I agree completely, however, if I may make an observation...

I've been fly fishing in East Tennessee for 25 years - mostly in the Smokies, but I've also done my fair share of tailwater fishing. In 25 years I've only had my license checked 3 times! The first was by a park ranger four years ago in the Smokies. The other 2 times were both last summer and both on the Caney!!

It ain't perfect, but the system definitely seems to be working better on the Caney than on other tailwaters. I guess you could use that as a measure of just how bad some of the other tailwaters are:mad:

Gerry

ChemEAngler
02-24-2009, 04:04 PM
I agree completely, however, if I may make an observation...

I've been fly fishing in East Tennessee for 25 years - mostly in the Smokies, but I've also done my fair share of tailwater fishing. In 25 years I've only had my license checked 3 times! The first was by a park ranger four years ago in the Smokies. The other 2 times were both last summer and both on the Caney!!

It ain't perfect, but the system definitely seems to be working better on the Caney than on other tailwaters. I guess you could use that as a measure of just how bad some of the other tailwaters are:mad:

Gerry

I have to second Gerry's observation. I have only fished the Caney one weekend, but that weekend there was a TWRA officer patrolling the area below the dam and guys out on a boat checking licenses as well. That may not be normal, but that is just what I have seen. I have fished the Clinch for 15 years and have never had my license checked. Last Saturday I saw the first TWRA officer at the Clinch ever. However, he was just driving by, and didn't stop to check licenses or creels. I have been checked almost every time I have been in the Smokies.

Poaching happens everywhere, we all just need to have our cell phones on us to call in anytime we see illegal activity.

However, it never hurts to send an email voicing your concerns.

You want to see poaching sometime, just follow me to Melton Hill tailwater when the white, yellow, and striped bass are active. I have never seen so many foreigners that don't speak a bit of English keeping everything they catch. And the TWRA officers just watch them. That is pathetic!

buzzmcmanus
02-24-2009, 04:59 PM
TWRA id funded from our license sales. More officers, means a higher price for our licenses.

TWRA gets exactly $0 from each ticket. It goes into the general fund, not to TWRA.

Cheapest method there is, is to keep the poaching hotline # programed into your cell phone, and call when you see a violation. The more phone calls they recieve, the more likelly they are to patrol the river more heavily.

BlueRaiderFan
02-24-2009, 06:20 PM
I don't think it matters that they don't get money from the tickets. They get paid a salary to issue the tickets. I do agree about the calls though.

buzzmcmanus
02-24-2009, 06:35 PM
I don't think it matters that they don't get money from the tickets. They get paid a salary to issue the tickets. I do agree about the calls though.

Somebody was stating that they don't recieve alot of money from the court system. I was just pointing out they don't recieve any. I do believe they still have a job to do. I hunt with a couple game wardens, and they wish they recieved the money, but they would write a ticket to me in a heart beat if I was knowingly breaking the law.

ChemEAngler
02-26-2009, 11:04 PM
Just got my latest copy of Tennessee Wildlife magazine. In this issue they are talking about brown trout and how they expect the next state record to come from South Holston, Ft. Patrick Henry (:confused:), or the Clinch.

They also hint at future reg changes to come on the Caney to bring it up to par with the above mentioned. They also talk about how it is critical to not fish for browns while on the redds.

Just thought you may want to know that this topic is also being talked about places other than this board.

BlueRaiderFan
02-26-2009, 11:22 PM
Somebody was stating that they don't recieve alot of money from the court system. I was just pointing out they don't recieve any. I do believe they still have a job to do. I hunt with a couple game wardens, and they wish they recieved the money, but they would write a ticket to me in a heart beat if I was knowingly breaking the law.

Got ya. Easy to get lost in these threads.

white95v6
02-27-2009, 09:28 AM
Just got my latest copy of Tennessee Wildlife magazine. In this issue they are talking about brown trout and how they expect the next state record to come from South Holston, Ft. Patrick Henry (:confused:), or the Clinch.

They also hint at future reg changes to come on the Caney to bring it up to par with the above mentioned. They also talk about how it is critical to not fish for browns while on the redds.

Just thought you may want to know that this topic is also being talked about places other than this board.

yea i got that too. nice to read. i wonder if they know about that big brown that is posted on here. cause they say the next record will be caught on a jerk bait. and i think that monster on here was on a flyrod.

snaildarter
02-27-2009, 11:34 AM
and i think that monster on here was on a flyrod.
Yeah, on 5x and no net, supposedly.