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View Full Version : Clinch Slots - From the Hardware Guys


Flat Fly n
03-11-2009, 10:01 PM
Where is Running Wulff by the way?

http://www.tndeer.com/tndeertalk/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1231187&page=1&gonew=1#UNREAD

waterwolf
03-11-2009, 10:39 PM
I am here, even a blind hog can find an acorn every now and then :biggrin:

Too bad folks like them do not realize the bullseye they have now placed on the river. Sad, day in reality.

Flat Fly n
03-11-2009, 11:21 PM
Ohh, I know WaterWolf . We have worked so hard to get it back and put targets on our backs as well. (You know what I mean by that statement as well).

PS. Ruining Wullff aka. running wulff, was a guy on here with 6 page rebuttals for not having slots on the Clinch.

Fishermansfly
03-12-2009, 01:13 AM
:eek::eek::eek:PUKE:eek::eek::eek:

UofMontanaAlum
03-12-2009, 01:48 AM
Too bad folks like them do not realize the bullseye they have now placed on the river. Sad, day in reality.

A bullseye? Alittle dramatic don't ya think?? I see pictures posted on these forums every day of nice fish being caught in many different rivers with location specifics listed. Does that mean every angler for miles is running to their car and bum-rushing that particular river that day? No.

The original poster on the linked site above didn't say where on the Clinch those fish were caught, just that they were caught in the Clinch River and that he feels the slot limit is starting to show signs of progress.

I'm excited to see what that fishery can produce in the next couple years. By the looks of it, it will be fantastic. I'm jealous!

ChemEAngler
03-12-2009, 07:01 AM
A bullseye? Alittle dramatic don't ya think?? I see pictures posted on these forums every day of nice fish being caught in many different rivers with location specifics listed. Does that mean every angler for miles is running to their car and bum-rushing that particular river that day? No.

The original poster on the linked site above didn't say where on the Clinch those fish were caught, just that they were caught in the Clinch River and that he feels the slot limit is starting to show signs of progress.

In a way I agree with you, but I also know how many people have told me that they are waiting to see positive results from the Clinch before returning. I do expect to see an increase in fishing pressure there this year, especially if there is a sulfur hatch like last year. Thankfully my job allows me to fish some during the weeks and avoid weekends. I could not believe the number of vehicles there last summer from Georgia, Alabama, and SC.

Also, anyone who is reasonably familiar with the Clinch will know where those fish came from.... That is why I try to eliminate obvious landmarks from my photos.

waterwolf
03-12-2009, 07:02 AM
A bullseye? Alittle dramatic don't ya think?? I see pictures posted on these forums every day of nice fish being caught in many different rivers with location specifics listed. Does that mean every angler for miles is running to their car and bum-rushing that particular river that day? No.

The original poster on the linked site above didn't say where on the Clinch those fish were caught, just that they were caught in the Clinch River and that he feels the slot limit is starting to show signs of progress.

I'm excited to see what that fishery can produce in the next couple years. By the looks of it, it will be fantastic. I'm jealous!
I am not talking about this forum, but since you brought it up...

Check the shocking data from the caney fork and see how it handled the mobs which descended on it last year. To save you the time I will tell you, it is in horrible shape now.

Call some of the flyshop owners in Nashville, and ask them what they think about forum river chatter, and the negative imapcts.

Ask the mearns quail in Southern Arizona, about how they like what internet forum chatter did to their populations.

Overall I would say that forums are a good things as they bring people together. But as has been demonstrated a bunch of times now, they can really negatively impact a resource as well. Look no further then the mobs which have now descended on the South Holston after the "43" brown was slathered all over the internet.

Grannyknot
03-12-2009, 09:42 AM
You guys may think its bad now....

Wait till this movie comes out:
http://www.theriverwhy.com/

Remember the Clinch after Brad Pitt became a fly fisherman?

The book is excellent, as I am sure most of you know.

So far, they don't have any big name actors, so it may stay away from the spotlight.

Fishermansfly
03-12-2009, 02:08 PM
I was told that Brad Pitt was soon to do another River Runs Through It type film.? There's been chatter some time ago on another forum. The gent that did all the tying for the film was the one making the chatter. Apparently he was under contract making flies for the new film and his client Mr. Pitt himself.

As for my response to puking, it's in disbelief that guy! Object to something and then sow the benifits of it. Though I really don't see how the slots have effected the Clinch just yet. Give it another year or so and then we'll talk about it! And BTW, how about a DH section!

As for the location X factor, I too have struggled with linking post's to a given body of water. Though I will say I've had good success and bad luck in just about every river. Posting to both in the past.

I partially agree with what Waterwolf has to say on the Caney having fished it 4 or 5 times this fall! It is suffering severe over crowding. During low water your best bet is to leave the boat home or suffer playing wader plinco downstream. Not to mention fighting rediculous boat traffic. Most of which don't have any stream ettiquette!

I also agree that the South Holston Tailrace has too suffered smathering on the net. I can't help but say I added to that effect by posting as much as I did on that river. I also was able to fish that river prior to it exploding with bodies literally lining the upper four miles of that river.

As to the shocking results on the Caney, well, I just won't go there. I feel if I do then I'm adding to what this conversation is all about! And if you don't understand that, well good!

There has also been much talk regarding a fly shop and their methods used to catch spawning fish standing atop a bridge a pointing out monster fish to thier clients. Is it right? Well you must ask yourself alot of questions to properly answer that but I'll just say, "NO!" Do they have the right to do it, "YES!" and in the end a picture of that client with his big brownie gets posted on thier website and then circumvents the net!

All of which has made me wonder why Paula and Byron haven't paid Daniel's salary for a month to go slay a monster in the park! Just go's to show why I like spending my hard earned money there!

Ultimately while we gripe about our waters being crowded we also gripe about the expenses of fly fishing equipment. This is case in point on "You can't have your cake and eat it too!" Without larger numbers of fly fisherman you'll never drive the prices down on gear! In our beloved state it appears to be a fine balancing act, or at least that's what I've come to believe! On another note, I'm hearing the new thing on gear will be better product for cheaper while were in the rut! <--Here's to wishful thinking!

~Brett

waterwolf
03-12-2009, 02:24 PM
It's not neccessarily the fly-fishing crowds which have destroyed our rivers from time to time. It is the hoards of bait slingers and plug rippers. Most fly fisherman release 99% of what they catch, and as long as they treat others with respect we can usually co-exist. However, the new generation of fly-fisherman seem to lack the courtesy many folks do who have been around for a sunset or two.

The list continues to grow as to resources which have been killed from publicity. You can add the Cumberland in KY to the list as the masses descended on it as well thanks to a few choice articles, and internet chatter. The leakage issue made the problem worse as you now have unethical folks hammering on fish who are stressed by warm water temps in the summer rather then using judgement and spending time elsewhere.

The clinch is returning, but the return will be short lived if the chatter gets too loud. Think before you post...

Wilson10
03-12-2009, 03:00 PM
The clinch is returning, but the return will be short lived if the chatter gets too loud. Think before you post...


Amen! Think before you post...:biggrin:

waterwolf
03-12-2009, 06:03 PM
Amen! Think before you post...:biggrin::rolleyes:

Realtyman
03-13-2009, 10:56 AM
I sympathize with any of you on this board that cares anything about the Clinch. Not to worry boys, they're just scouting her out. I would bet a float trip on the Caney, that the Clinch will be wiped clean (trophy fish) by this Fall 09, but the Caney is dead and not worth fishing.

Ask me how I know this? Saw it happen with my on eyes and couldn't do a **** thing about it, legally.

Curtis

waterwolf
03-13-2009, 01:13 PM
I feel sorry for you guys, I really do. It happened to the Clinch once before, then the crowds left, now with each picture posted, each boasting report, and each story told it chinks away at what has taken years to build back.

I just wish folks would not stroke their egos online so much, if they only knew they were hurting themselves in the end, it might not happen.

mikebone
03-13-2009, 06:15 PM
Those of you who know me (waterwolf) know I've always been somewhat anti internet. But the reality of it is, it's here to stay! Even in the "dark" ages rivers always saw increased pressure when they were fishing really good. It just happened a little slower. Now it can happen almost overnight. The shock value is much higher. As for the Clinch river "megafish" they have been there all along. Even during the down years. Possibly made better because of them. Can you say "fingerling stocking program". But they are so different you can almost count them as a different species. They certainly can't be counted on in a normal days fishing. What made the Clinch river great were the 14 to 18 in rainbows that could make a five weight cry! When the water goes away..so will the mega fish pictures. Then we'll find out how far the river has really come on the road to recovery. As for fishing for spawning trout on redds..I find it repulsive..plain and simple. I've done it mind you, but like so many other things in my life..I was wrong.

waterwolf
03-13-2009, 11:22 PM
Those of you who know me (waterwolf) know I've always been somewhat anti internet. But the reality of it is, it's here to stay! Even in the "dark" ages rivers always saw increased pressure when they were fishing really good. It just happened a little slower. Now it can happen almost overnight. The shock value is much higher. As for the Clinch river "megafish" they have been there all along. Even during the down years. Possibly made better because of them. Can you say "fingerling stocking program". But they are so different you can almost count them as a different species. They certainly can't be counted on in a normal days fishing. What made the Clinch river great were the 14 to 18 in rainbows that could make a five weight cry! When the water goes away..so will the mega fish pictures. Then we'll find out how far the river has really come on the road to recovery. As for fishing for spawning trout on redds..I find it repulsive..plain and simple. I've done it mind you, but like so many other things in my life..I was wrong.

Much truth in the words of the elders. :biggrin:

I got a 4wt ready to make a few 14"-18" rainbows weep, hope the chance is there if they ever turn the freaking water off.

You also know how I feel about fishing for spawners, it doesn't get any lower or sorrier as far as an excuse for catching a giant brown. If you want to catch one, do it like a man.

oldschool
03-14-2009, 08:39 AM
I have enjoyed the good old days of the Clinch and the not so good days, I hope we see fish in good numbers protected by the slot limit this year.

As for spawning fish, I have caught monster browns both ways, spawning and not. If you stay out of the redds and limit your impact with careful fish handling I'm ok with it to a degree. I think protecting the main spawning areas is great and if there are fish outside that area that are going to be released.....what the heck.

I think we forget that we all prefer to hunt during "spawning". Do you quit deer hunting during the rut, do you skip turkey hunting during the spring. Both of these time periods put the "trophy" animals at a disadvantage to the hunter just like brown trout spawning. The drive to reproduce makes everything more vunerable ... including me. I don't think we can say fishing redds is totally wrong when our hunting practices totally revolve around breeding seasons.:smile:

ChemEAngler
03-14-2009, 12:41 PM
I feel sorry for you guys, I really do. It happened to the Clinch once before, then the crowds left, now with each picture posted, each boasting report, and each story told it chinks away at what has taken years to build back.

I just wish folks would not stroke their egos online so much, if they only knew they were hurting themselves in the end, it might not happen.

Waterwolf,
I have been guilty of this in the past, as have many others on all these forums. I am sure most of us do it with the best intentions, it just doesn't work out that way. At one time I would post the results of each and every trip whether good or bad on forums. I still give reports of many trips on my blog, but I tend to shy away from it on forums. If I do provide a brief report, it is with the intent to share useful patterns or techniques used on recent trips. Sometimes I hesitate before doing so. I spent years learning the Clinch and how to fish it, and just giving that information away just seems wrong. The flies to use are no secret, however how to fish it is another matter. I see many people who are fishing in water that is typically productive on other waters, but that isn't the case on the Clinch.

I guess one positive about the Clinch is that I know plenty of people who can't figure those fish out. Hopefully it will continue to remain a technical water that frustrates many people. Also, it may help that the Caney, SoHo, and now the Holston get so much publicity that it will take some of those people away from the Clinch. The Watauga and Hiwassee are also good fisheries, but you just rarely hear about them. Makes you wonder why....

I realize that this is a predominantly flyfishing forum, and most people on here probably practice C&R. However, I know of a couple bait flingers who read the board regularly to find out where the hot tailwater is at the time. I still think that some of the more bait-fishing oriented forums will cause more harm than this forum.

Flat Fly n
03-14-2009, 04:40 PM
Interesting comments. I think you have to agree even if you hate the hardware guys, they released these fish. Yes, they did post them on the internet but so does everybody else on this forum, including Mike Bone and Waterwolf who post pictures on their internet sites so that you will book your trips with them. So if we/they (the hardware guys)should not post pics of a great resource (trout/stripers/bass, etc), then everybody should not do it, i.e. guides, bloggers, etc. You guys didn't mind posting the big trout in other fly shops in Knoxville in the past, so why now? Is it because it not directly putting money in your pockets as it was back then?

The Clich died off for several reasons IMO, but mostly it was for the lack of a slot and enforcement. We have the slot, and hopefully we can get TWRA there to enforce if there are enough folks on the river to warrant. The Clinch was far more crowded in the 80'-90's than it is now, and bigger fish were caught then. With an enforced slot we can protect what fish are there longer than in the past. It's a put/grow and take resource at this point. Always has been and probably always will be.

Without interest in this river, LUCRO and folks like Running Wolf would be back up to the same old crap of trying to get the regs reversed. Money coming into Anderson Co. for fishing the Clinch will keep the regs there, as well as folks who like the big fish. It will even help LRO with interest in the Clinch for folks coming to the Smokies and maybe slipping up to the Clinch for a day of tailwater fishing as well. It compares to driving on the interstate. I don't like the big trucks and traffic, but I do like driving on a 4 lane at 75mph when I want to get somewhere. You can't have it both ways, and this isn't your own little private river. The Clich is 8 MILES of river, surely we can all find a 30 yard spot to fish that we like. If it gets too crowded for you to wade, buy a boat. IF you want solitude hike 2 miles back on the Little River from Elkmont. If you want the big fish, accept popularity or accept mediocrity of the way it was.

PS. IF you didn't bother writing TWRA or going to a meeting trying to get the regs changed over the past 10 years, don't bother now complaining about someone posting a great day of fishing on the Clinch.

PSS. Too crowded to have fun...notice the datehttp://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee78/tnflyfish/bigcatchbmp.jpg

waterwolf
03-14-2009, 06:19 PM
I don't have a forum, and I don't post pictures of fish from around here. If you can find a picture of me with a trout or smallmouth that I posted on the internet please provide the link. Heck most of the time, folks other then those closest to me (Mike Bone, etc) Don't even know I have been on the river. And they (Mike) can usually predict when and where I will be, more times before I know I am going :biggrin:


Old school--> I wouldn't shoot a buck that was mounting a doe, if that is what you are asking. Maybe I would, just depends on how big he was :biggrin: I understand what you are saying.

mikebone
03-14-2009, 07:26 PM
I never said people should not post fish pictures. I personally enjoy looking at other peoples pictures of fish they caught. ( like the happy young man in your photo. ;) ) And I certainly don't hate the hardware guys. I've actually learned quite a few things from them over the years. I may have even thrown a Rapala or two. The Clinch, and in fact all Tennessee tailwaters, are public fisheries. As they should be. The one generator flow on the Clinch is ideal for catching the larger browns. When the water goes off, they become much more difficult to approach and the number of those fish caught will diminish. As for putting money in my pocket..well..if that were my prime motivation, I made a very bad career choice! :biggrin: One I have never regretted. Btw, Old School..point well taken. Although between trout and grouse..who has the time!

waterwolf
03-14-2009, 11:24 PM
I thought more about this as the evening has waned.

Sure I have probably been partly to blame for some river exploitation through the years of guiding which I have done. However, the damage inflicted certainly does not even compare to what can be attributed to the internet swarms. Again, ask the Caney fork guys how well it worked out for them. The shocking data doesn't lie, if you don't believe them.

Same thing happened to the Cumberland in KY, swarms showed up from internet chatter.

I cringe everytime I see a river I love which was uncrowded mentioned on an internet forum.

Funny story, but the Holston existed for many for several years before 3/4 of the people who fish it now even knew there were trout in that river. Wonder how much different it might be if it weren't for the internet.

There are positives to the net, don't get me wrong, but there is an ugly side which has damaging results.

GrouseMan77
03-17-2009, 06:53 AM
I recently landed this guy on the trophy section of a certain duck pond around Knoxville. He took a #16 goose turd emerger.


http://www.angler-school.com/images/110573.jpg

waterwolf
03-17-2009, 08:55 AM
:biggrin::biggrin:

flyred06
03-17-2009, 11:49 AM
Along these same lines I cringe when I see some of the great trout streams and other areas being shown on television or you tube with these catches that they advertise as normal or the place to go for the fish of a lifetime. Then all of a sudden every one and there brother starts to visit that particular body of water thinking they are the next host of the century.:redface:

buzzmcmanus
03-17-2009, 02:58 PM
I'm not going to go back through past posts and dredge up who said what. It just doesn't mean that much to me. But I distinctly remember one of the arguements for a slot limit on the Clinch was to increase its popularity and bring more money into the local economy. Looks like it has done just that. As for posting pictures, I don't think pictures of the trout I catch would make anyone want to even be in the same river as me. If you're proud of a fish you catch, slap it up here. I always like to look at other accomplishments, gives me hope that someday it might be me.

tennswede
03-17-2009, 07:07 PM
I agree wholeheartedly with buzzmcmanus, Just because a river has potential doesn't mean everyone is going to catch anything. Just look at all the people who wade where they should fish and vice versa. It's more to fishing than just showing up.

BlueRaiderFan
03-17-2009, 07:53 PM
I used to wade where I should fish, but learned better (thank God for books by Krey et al)

waterwolf
03-17-2009, 11:37 PM
I prefer to slip into casting range of where I need to fish, and then pitch head first into where the fish are:biggrin:

Stonefly
03-18-2009, 06:04 PM
[I prefer to slip into casting range of where I need to fish, and then pitch head first into where the fish are:biggrin:]


Ha ha ha

buzzmcmanus
03-19-2009, 07:37 AM
I prefer to slip into casting range of where I need to fish, and then pitch head first into where the fish are:biggrin:
I seam to like to fish that way myself. Only I'm not wearing a wet suit, carrying a speargun, and jumping in from a boat. I'm wearing waders, carrying a flyrod, and slipping off a rock.

waterwolf
03-19-2009, 02:22 PM
I seam to like to fish that way myself. Only I'm not wearing a wet suit, carrying a speargun, and jumping in from a boat. I'm wearing waders, carrying a flyrod, and slipping off a rock.

Same goes for me, what gave you the impression I am a spearfisherman? I am far too small to be spearing fish.

buzzmcmanus
03-19-2009, 07:27 PM
I prefer to slip into casting range of where I need to fish, and then pitch head first into where the fish are:biggrin:

Same goes for me, what gave you the impression I am a spearfisherman? I am far too small to be spearing fish.

I just assumed you were commenting on Grouseman77's picture. My bad.