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View Full Version : Norris Dam (Flood Gates Opening Up)


MadisonBoats
05-11-2009, 09:24 PM
Got a call from an old TVA Friend that Norris was opening up today through Friday.

VIDEO OF THE GATES OPENING BELOW:

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=718858318&ref=profile#/video/video.php?v=100602318318

ajh10567
05-11-2009, 10:00 PM
Is this going to hurt the sulfur hatch?

Wilson10
05-11-2009, 10:21 PM
Yes,its true...the flood gates are open. We went out by there this evening.

I'm honestly not sure if it will hurt the sulfur hatch. I'm too uneducated about bugs to answer that one...

Burton
05-12-2009, 01:13 PM
The sulphurs will be gone if they are not already due to the extensive generating. The sulphurs on the clinch are swimmer type not the clinger type, so heavy generating will wash them out for the season.

On another note last time they opened the gates the sulphur hatch was down for about 3 years, and that was 6 years ago when they opened them up last.

Atleast I got to fish last Tuesday evening with sulphurs coming off heavy. I was able to catch 5 fish over 14" and several more in a 2 hour stretch. My buddy and I were like a couple of giddy little school girls, and we couldn't wait to do it the next day. Then the generators fired up, and haven't stopped since. I just hope they are on next year.

Good news though, the sulphurs are coming off like crazy on the holston.

golfballs03
05-13-2009, 08:57 PM
What's it going to do to the water temperature?

What kind of impact will this have on the fishery?

My neighbor said it's going to be spilling for a few days...

MBB
05-14-2009, 07:55 AM
I believe the spilled water is warmer than the released water, and if true, the water should be warmer than a normal two generator generation. We really aren't into hot weather yet, so I doubt that would be a problem.

In the past, this has not been good for the sulfurs. I would anticipate a weaker hatch for next year and maybe for the next few years.

On a brighter note, the TVA website anticipates a more normal generation on Saturday. Hopefully, the damage by the volume of water will be limited.

Grannyknot
05-14-2009, 08:34 AM
I believe the spilled water is warmer than the released water, and if true, the water should be warmer than a normal two generator generation. We really aren't into hot weather yet, so I doubt that would be a problem.


Yes, the spilled water is for the most part, surface water, while the water used for power generation is pulled from deeper in the lake. So it will be warmer.

Burton
05-14-2009, 03:54 PM
Being a tail water dam the water is obviously warmer on top, then when it is over 100 ft deep coming from the bottom. With that said the water temps on the lake aren't even in the 70's yet there will be no problem with the heat.

I would not count on the generation chart for this weekend. They are not planning on closing the gates until friday. If that is the case and they don't generate at all it will take a good 12 plus hours to drain near 61 bridge. The fishing should return to normal summer fishing in a week or two. I am hoping that the fish will be very hungry when the water slow down.

ChemEAngler
05-14-2009, 08:14 PM
I am hoping the trout are fat and happy after gorging themselves on shad and whatever came through the dam during all this flow....

KnoxBioBenz
05-14-2009, 09:48 PM
I was up at Big Ridge two days ago and WOW.
The water looked to be at least 5-10 ft. higher than it is supposed to be.

mstone
05-14-2009, 10:34 PM
just sitting here taking in all the talk on the sulphur hatch. I put next week on the calendar for vacation last October, so I can't change it. I'm still hopeful that at some point next week, there might be some wadeable water. I'm pulling the camper to North Carolina to start the week, and will keep up with the generation day by day. At least the water in the mountains will be in good shape to start with.

mstone

MadisonBoats
05-15-2009, 10:47 AM
Releases

Norris will be shutting off spill at 1:00 p.m. Friday, May 15, 2009.

Date Time (Eastern) Generators

5/15/2009 10am - midnight 2 or more
5/16/2009 midnight - 1am 2 or more

*Just heard the flow plan for this weekend is 3,000 cfs for Friday and 1,800 cfs for Saturday/Sunday!

Carolina Boy
05-15-2009, 10:49 AM
mstone where in NC will you be?

MadisonBoats
05-15-2009, 08:22 PM
Well, TVA canceled the recreation for this weekend...:mad:

mstone
05-15-2009, 10:41 PM
Carolina Boy.
I plan on fishing the Davidson for the most part, with at least a day on the other side of the BR parkway, fishing the west fork of the Pigeon. May try a day on North Mills as well. Never tried on Looking Glass creek, that's been on my mind too. Any suggestions ?

mstone

waterwolf
05-17-2009, 07:07 PM
The fish and bugs will be fine, what wiped out the sulfurs was the excessive siltation caused by lack of generating several years ago. Mayflies survive massive runoffs each year out west, and with little light reaching the bottom they will hold off hatching until the water drops out a little.

No one panic.

MadisonBoats
05-18-2009, 08:42 AM
waterwolf
Thanks for the insight! I am trying to learn more about entomology and the effects of environmental conditions... Sometimes it is hard to relate my reading to the actual conditions.

waterwolf
05-18-2009, 01:08 PM
waterwolf
Thanks for the insight! I am trying to learn more about entomology and the effects of environmental conditions... Sometimes it is hard to relate my reading to the actual conditions.
The Clinch even at high flows is very placid and the bugs will still hatch during those flows. Heck you can even catch rising fish as well during that time. It will be no different whenever the water drops out, and I look forward to getting on the river soon.

ChemEAngler
05-18-2009, 01:34 PM
I was hoping to get on the water Wednesday evening around 4:00. However, TVAs predicted releases show 2 or more all day Wednesday. Maybe Thursday will be better. Once Friday gets here you won't see me anywhere near water. I will let the Memorial Day Crazies have it....

Midweek next week will probably be more likely.

Wilson10
05-18-2009, 01:34 PM
Wolf,

Tell them the truth... all bugs will be gone and no one should waste their time getting on the clinch for the next 50 years. ;)

waterwolf
05-18-2009, 02:19 PM
Wolf,

Tell them the truth... all bugs will be gone and no one should waste their time getting on the clinch for the next 50 years. ;)
Well of course, in fact the high flows will leave the bugs fine, but will kill every trout in there, and it might not recover in our lifetime.

People should just donate their equipment to me, and I will keep an eye on it until the fish population recovers.

Wilson10
05-18-2009, 04:33 PM
Thank you and I would glady accept donations as well - Please PM me for address for all donations ;)

Burton
05-19-2009, 09:41 PM
The sulphurs will be gone because on the clinch they are swimmers not clingers. You are correct out west they don't wash out, but they are not the swimmer type. The sulphurs will still hatch, just will probably be down on melton hill somewhere. The rest of the standard flies will be fine on the clinch. aka Caddis

FYI: There are 4 types of Mayflies: Swimmer, Crawler, Clinger, and Burrower. Here is one of many articles I have saved about Mayflies that explains some of the characteristics of the different type of Mayflies. http://theflybench.com/bugs/mayfly.htm

Flat Fly n
05-19-2009, 11:05 PM
Burton,
They have PMD's out west in the big waters as Waterwolf has quoted. In the East they are called sulphurs, which are alot like Pink Alberts as well.

The sulphurs should be fine. That's my bet. We'll see shortly, although I think most folk here are suffering from SAG..............Sulphurs Are Gone syndrome. Symptoms include anxiety, restlessness, insomnia, and general lack of lucid thoughts.

Curable only by big hatches and rising fish!

waterwolf
05-20-2009, 07:09 AM
The sulphurs will be gone because on the clinch they are swimmers not clingers. You are correct out west they don't wash out, but they are not the swimmer type. The sulphurs will still hatch, just will probably be down on melton hill somewhere. The rest of the standard flies will be fine on the clinch. aka Caddis

FYI: There are 4 types of Mayflies: Swimmer, Crawler, Clinger, and Burrower. Here is one of many articles I have saved about Mayflies that explains some of the characteristics of the different type of Mayflies. http://theflybench.com/bugs/mayfly.htm

Incorrect!

Out west you have a whole host of swimmers which are mayflies, and they survive through massive flows each year.

The sulfurs on the Clinch will be fine, do you think they just swim around all day for fun? Nope, they will hold tight until conditions improve and then they will go.

Also, having floated the clinch 1 million times on 2 generators, they also hatch in massive numbers right through the 2 generators and the fish eat them as well.

Midges and blackfly larvae are far more subject to the high flows then the sulfurs. But as we all know they are doing just fine.

There is reality, and then there is perceived reality.

silvercreek
05-20-2009, 09:14 AM
Depends on what the high water does to the insect's habitat. On the Henry's Fork, a heavy release of water with flushing of silt impacted the PMDs heavily. They also had a severe scouring after the river iced over and in an attempt to help things, they released water pushing the ice down the river scouring out the weed beds. The PMDs were heavily reduced. Bugs are hardy though we will just have to see.

Burton
05-20-2009, 08:22 PM
Incorrect!

Out west you have a whole host of swimmers which are mayflies, and they survive through massive flows each year.

The sulfurs on the Clinch will be fine, do you think they just swim around all day for fun? Nope, they will hold tight until conditions improve and then they will go.

Also, having floated the clinch 1 million times on 2 generators, they also hatch in massive numbers right through the 2 generators and the fish eat them as well.

Midges and blackfly larvae are far more subject to the high flows then the sulfurs. But as we all know they are doing just fine.

There is reality, and then there is perceived reality.
I am not going to argue, back and forth. Im trying to make the people that don't understand the sulphur hatch on the clinch understand what the generation could mean. My friend who is an entomologist at UT, and his work there is to examine and test the different rivers, streams, and reservoirs in TN, has explained to me extensively the sulphurs on the clinch. My info is correct bc it is obviously backed by experts. I have lived on the clinch for most of my life, and fished it for around 25. I remember in the late 80's the spill effected the hatches, and then 6 years ago it did the same thing. History and Experts speak louder then assumptions. You are correct about sulphurs in standard generation, but that is the difference between 3000-9000 CFPS compared to 16000 CFPS. Also the fact they haven't stopped generation in over 3 weeks now. All factors to affect the sulphurs.

waterwolf
05-20-2009, 10:46 PM
I am not going to argue, back and forth. Im trying to make the people that don't understand the sulphur hatch on the clinch understand what the generation could mean. My friend who is an entomologist at UT, and his work there is to examine and test the different rivers, streams, and reservoirs in TN, has explained to me extensively the sulphurs on the clinch. My info is correct bc it is obviously backed by experts. I have lived on the clinch for most of my life, and fished it for around 25. I remember in the late 80's the spill effected the hatches, and then 6 years ago it did the same thing. History and Experts speak louder then assumptions. You are correct about sulphurs in standard generation, but that is the difference between 3000-9000 CFPS compared to 16000 CFPS. Also the fact they haven't stopped generation in over 3 weeks now. All factors to affect the sulphurs.

Well, I guess if you wish to have a peeing contest about living on the Clinch, then you might have wished to stand next to someone else :biggrin:

I grew up on the Clinch, been fishing it since I can remember which is probably 25 years ago when I was just a small fry. Long before jails, and so forth. Back in the days before the weir and any thing close to a hub baffle existed. Same time period when there were no sulfurs, same time period when the lower end of the river dang near dried up at times, and dang near the time that a 10" holdover was a magnificent creature. Cycle all the way through quality zones and so on and so forth until present day.

I don't remember the exact years, but the big flood from 7 or 8 years ago had a massive hatch which followed the month afterwards, and that has been by far the largest extended flows the river has seen since the sulfurs arrived. The following year brought a massive spring drought, and the next year the bugs were history, due to the unbelievable sediment deposits the year before.

They will be fine, trust me. Not trying to break your heart, but this is far from my first calf roping on the Clinch. Some would say I have spent a day or two haunting the Clinch in my life. ;)

MadisonBoats
05-21-2009, 11:22 AM
Some would say I have spent a day or two haunting the Clinch in my life. ;)

I believe I could include myself in this context:redface:

oldschool
05-21-2009, 06:07 PM
I will have to agree with the Waterwolf as I spent some of his years on the river with him. In my non-entomology educated experience silt was a much bigger problem to the bugs than high flows/flood flows, particularly when the flood flow only lasted a short week or two in the very beginning of the hatch cycle. But who knows, they could all be gone and the hatch is done forever. Time will tell. My money is on the bugs being in pretty good shape.

Flat Fly n
05-21-2009, 09:38 PM
The water temp. below Melton Hill Dam tonight was 54 degrees. We were uhhhhh....Hmmmm.....turtle fishing, yea that's it...turtle fishing.

waterwolf
05-21-2009, 11:19 PM
I will have to agree with the Waterwolf as I spent some of his years on the river with him. In my non-entomology educated experience silt was a much bigger problem to the bugs than high flows/flood flows, particularly when the flood flow only lasted a short week or two in the very beginning of the hatch cycle. But who knows, they could all be gone and the hatch is done forever. Time will tell. My money is on the bugs being in pretty good shape.


You would also probably agree that they have been through 10X worse water flows then this and hatched afterwards , and the years to follow.

Knowing you, if we had our druthers they would never graduate from nymphs, ever. Just a perpetual state of nymphood which would dang sure make fishing less trying.

truchin
05-22-2009, 10:47 PM
Phil,
so how many turtles did you get?
Jose

Flat Fly n
05-22-2009, 11:11 PM
LOts of turtles down there, but could only get two to poke their heads out and bite. I think they are seriiously in shock secondary to water temps. Weird!

waterwolf
05-23-2009, 05:17 PM
The sulphurs will be gone because on the clinch they are swimmers not clingers. You are correct out west they don't wash out, but they are not the swimmer type. The sulphurs will still hatch, just will probably be down on melton hill somewhere. The rest of the standard flies will be fine on the clinch. aka Caddis

FYI: There are 4 types of Mayflies: Swimmer, Crawler, Clinger, and Burrower. Here is one of many articles I have saved about Mayflies that explains some of the characteristics of the different type of Mayflies. http://theflybench.com/bugs/mayfly.htm


Burton, you need to inform the 8 billion sulphurs on the Clinch that they are supposed to be gone.

Just got home, and the hatch was good, and by the loads of nymphs swimming everywhere, your theory couldn't be further from the truth.

The sulphurs are fine, the caddis are fine, blackflies fine, etc etc. And the fish are fine, or they were till I came through :biggrin:

Once again, and as it has been for eons, the bugs were just fine, so everyone back off the ledge.

Burton
05-23-2009, 06:45 PM
Thats cool, I was on the river for about 7 hours today, and didn't see a sulphur one. I did see a ton of caddis on the water. Anyways it was an awesome day of fishing. I quit keeping count after 30. They are hungry and aggressive.

ChemEAngler
05-23-2009, 07:21 PM
Waterwolf/Burton,

Thanks for the reports. I plan on hitting it up a couple times midweek next week. I will let the holiday crazies have it this weekend. Don't much care for combat fishing.

truchin
05-23-2009, 08:24 PM
I saw them all the way down to dismal bluf!!! good numbres too. iT's gret to know they are doing ok.waterwolf where did you see them?
i was chasing shad and white bass. no luck though.
jose

waterwolf
05-23-2009, 10:29 PM
Thats cool, I was on the river for about 7 hours today, and didn't see a sulphur one. I did see a ton of caddis on the water. Anyways it was an awesome day of fishing. I quit keeping count after 30. They are hungry and aggressive.


I have to ask where could you have possibly been that there were no bugs? I had buddies up high, and I was down low and had other friends in between, and everyone saw a blanket hatch. I was at P.O. late this afternoon, and the water was covered with husks floating down, from hatches upstream.

Do you know what a sulphur looks like? Not trying to be mean, but I saw 1 caddis maybe, and 7 million sulphurs.

I also, disagree with the hungry part of the fish, they are absolutely gorged, they were puking up nymphs they were so stuffed. And the girth they are carrying has been packed on over the last few weeks and not today.

Aggressive, yes, because of the massive nymph swim fest which was going on all up and down the river.

waterwolf
05-23-2009, 10:32 PM
I saw them all the way down to dismal bluf!!! good numbres too. iT's gret to know they are doing ok.waterwolf where did you see them?
i was chasing shad and white bass. no luck though.
jose


I saw them from P.O to 61, and had buddies who had them from the Dam to P.O., basically from the dam to Dismals it sounds like.

I saw a monster striper crushing rainbows in front of the wing wall at 61 bridge.

Burton
05-23-2009, 10:56 PM
[QUOTE=waterwolf;67282]I have to ask where could you have possibly been that there were no bugs? I had buddies up high, and I was down low and had other friends in between, and everyone saw a blanket hatch. I was at P.O. late this afternoon, and the water was covered with husks floating down, from hatches upstream.

Do you know what a sulphur looks like? Not trying to be mean, but I saw 1 caddis maybe, and 7 million sulphurs.

I also, disagree with the hungry part of the fish, they are absolutely gorged, they were puking up nymphs they were so stuffed. And the girth they are carrying has been packed on over the last few weeks and not today.

Aggressive, yes, because of the massive nymph swim fest which was going on all up and down the river.[/QUOT

Yes obviously I know what a Sulphur is, and I didn't see any nor did the other people I talked to that fished the clinch today. There were plenty of bugs, I just never saw any Suphurs hatching.

I started below the weir, then once generation started I floated from Peach to a private ramp about mile from 61. We were done by mid afternoon, and no sulphurs. The caddis was heavy below the weir when I was waiding, and then they were around several shoals between Peach and the ramp I got out at.

Sorry you didn't get into the fish that were hungry. You would think with 7 million sulphurs they would be feeding like crazy, especially since that is what they do when hatches are coming off. I guess 7 million sulphurs were just chillin on the water with no fish feeding. Also, if there were that many sulphurs why were you throwing Nymphs. With that many sulphurs you might want to think about a Sulphur Pattern Dry Fly. I can give you a recipe for one if you want.

Also, you said you were at Peach late afternoon, and you acted like you floated to 61 bridge. So tell everyone how your above post stated that you just got home, and it was made at 5 o'clock. Or are you telling everyone you can float from Peach to 61 Bridge in just a couple of hours, drive back pick up your vehicles get your gear together and go home and get on the internet by 5.

waterwolf
05-24-2009, 06:56 AM
Let's see where to start, we pounded the fish, to the point of it being laughable. I am saying per your post, that the fish are not "hungry" as in they are not starving. I clearly said they were aggressive, and they paid the price for their aggressiveness.

I put in around 7:30 at P.O., and got to 61 around 3:30 or 4:00, drove back up the river to get the shuttle vehicle and walked down to the river to take a leak. The river was covered with bugs at that time. Then spoke with several buds who were floating at different times on different stretches and everyone reported the same great hatch I saw. How you didn't see a hatch is dang near physically impossible, however some are more observant then others. I am also assuming the red tundra at 61 was yours since it was the only vehicle in the parking lot when we took out.

Naturally you have no idea who you are conversing with via keyboard and monitor, but I am no stranger to the Clinch in any aspect. Please save your sulphur pattern, I assure you I don't need any help catching fish in the Clinch.

MadisonBoats
05-24-2009, 05:08 PM
Fellas, it is all good since we got to fish:biggrin:... At least in my book it was...

I drifted Peach Orchard to 61 Saturday from about 11-5. Unfortunately, I did not get to fly fish. I had a young family member in from out of town that had only been fishing once or twice and he was an eager one to try trout fishing. So, I basically spent the trip teaching him to cast a spinning rod and on other fundamentals. I had my fly rod, but, I can fish anytime and it was great seeing someone get so excited to catch a fish period.

He ended up catching over thirty fish and about 5 decent sized fish...

I did not see any Sulphurs during the few moments I checked the water, but, I did see several caddis...Not to say they were not there; just didn't put the time in to looking for them.

Most of the stocker fish seemed very quick to hit and my group caught tons of them. I think the banks were more scoured from the high water than the bottom area was from my observations. The silt content was very low too. How this all pans out; not sure - I guess I will just have to fish it and let you guys know!

It sure was busy out there! But, I was glad to see fellow fishermen out enjoying the river!

Hope to see a few of you guys out tomorrow morning. If you ever see me in my blue and black aluminum vbottom; give me a shout. Also, if you ever need any assistance-please feel free to send me a txt message for my cellnumber and I will send it to you in case you get in to any trouble on the Clinch...

To all our Veteran's on this forum - Many Many Thanks! I would not be able to enjoy life as I know it without your sacrifices!

God Bless You!
Shawn Madison