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View Full Version : Clinch - July 10th, 2009


gverholek
07-10-2009, 03:19 PM
Normally, I don’t like to fish the Clinch on Fridays, because it’s often quite crowded, at least by comparison to other weekdays. I definitely don’t fish there on the weekends - the fishermen outnumber the fish. But… based on the TVA discharge schedule published on their website Thursday evening, it appeared that they would run a reduced flow. Since Tuesday was such a productive day, it seemed like a good idea to try again while the fish were dumb and happy.

Leaving before 6:30AM, I covered the 30 miles and got to the river a little after 7AM. The fog lay thick over the cold water. With only the edge of the water visible, the first thing I noticed was that the flow was still high and fast. The two-generator flow had stopped at 1AM, but the river hadn’t drained down at the Second Baptist Church parking lot. It appeared to be running at least 12” – 15” above normal minimum flow. I leisurely lined my rod and selected some flies. I opted to use a #12 parachute Adams (instead of my normal Thingamabobber) for an indicator and a #16 Zebra Midge dropper tied on with 6x fluorocarbon. Slowly donning my waders to kill time didn’t work; the water still hadn’t receded. Finally, around 7:30AM I entered the river and felt the strong, cold flow from Norris Dam, some 12+ miles upstream.

I couldn’t see more than about 50 feet in the fog, but it quickly became evident that I wasn’t the first on the river. A spin fisherman was working my favorite riffle, so I moved up stream to another ledge that had produced on Tuesday. Quickly enough, I hooked a small rainbow on the Midge. Then a small Brown hit the Adams dry fly. After another hit and miss, the action stopped. I moved further out along a ledge and into the heavier flow, but could not see the Adams. I decided to put on an olive Wooly Bugger and work the pools below the ledge. I worked out across the flow and back, and finally a nice Rainbow took the Bugger.

It was now about 10AM, the fog was thinning and the river level was receding. I decided to go to the Thingamabobber and Midge that produced so well for me before. I took a couple of small Rainbows, before I was able to see that my riffle downstream was vacant. A fisherman had been working Soft Hackle flies through the area, but he moved further to the center of the river. I quickly moved downstream and set up where I could drift the midge through the soft water below the long, lateral ledge. Good move.

I began to pick up several nice Rainbows in fairly quick succession. I’m sure glad I brought the net, and I’m equally glad I use a reel with a good drag (Lamson Velocity 1.5 on a 5-wt TFO TiCr) to save the 6x tippet. I caught and released several fish over 12”, including a nice fat 15” Rainbow. The soft hackle fisherman was getting nothing while I kept catching fish. Feeling rather smug, and anxious to keep the parade going, I got careless with my backcast and tangled the indicator and midge. The fine 6x tippet couldn’t be salvaged, so I cut off some of the tangle and re-tied the Midge tippet to the indicator. The dropper was now about 14” long. The fish ignored me. I retied the Midge on a longer 20” tippet and the catching resumed.

By about 11AM, the water had reached normal low flow, and the fog cleared. The run where I picked up a half-dozen fish went quiet, so I began casting up into the base of the ledge, letting the Midge drift through the soft water. I quickly caught two more nice Rainbows. It was near lunch and I was getting hungry, so I did the old “one more fish” routine. It wasn’t long before a small Brown trout called my hand. I decided to call it a day.

The soft hackle fisherman called over to me and asked to see what I was using. I showed him the Zebra Midge I had on and gave him one I had tied. Before I could get out of the water, he had a fish on. That fish was almost as satisfying as the ones I was catching.

Worrgamesguy
07-10-2009, 04:45 PM
The soft hackle fisherman called over to me and asked to see what I was using. I showed him the Zebra Midge I had on and gave him one I had tied. Before I could get out of the water, he had a fish on. That fish was almost as satisfying as the ones I was catching.

You're a good man, Charlie Brown :smile:

MadisonBoats
07-13-2009, 01:35 PM
gverholek (http://littleriveroutfitters.com/forum/member.php?u=2975)
Did we meet last week on the river?

gverholek
07-13-2009, 09:20 PM
Yes, we did. You were dragging your boat up stream to get started. I was leaving the river. It was nice chatting with you.

MadisonBoats
07-14-2009, 09:58 AM
I thought I recognized you bud! It was a pleasure meeting you and I enjoy reading your report. Very detailed and helpful...

Take care friend!
SM:smile:

monktrout
07-14-2009, 10:17 AM
gverholek, Thanks for your good post. I was on the Clinch on Friday. The tiny tan torpedoes were all a buzz, but I didn't fare so well as you. I am a reluctant indicator fisher and always looking over my shoulder for a way to fish downstream. My addiction to soft hackles is not without some justification since the pleasure of fishing them pulls me away from yarn and lead. More discipline = more fish. But the old learn slow. My midge patterns also look a bit like tiny hedge clippings.

I plan to be on the Clinch Friday. Hope to you run into you.

MadisonBoats, Possibly we'll see you and your fine boat.

Monk

MadisonBoats
07-15-2009, 09:10 AM
monktrout
I plan on being out there Friday. It all depends on the pulse schedule so that I can make it up stream or not..:smile:

I netted the river several times yesterday to review what was coming off...

The Midge Pattern you will need to use to mimic the release is around a size 24. I would go small black bead with just black line. You may want to add a tuft to make it a pupa.
http://littleriveroutfitters.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=30&pictureid=259

The scuds were super abundant and usually are...I fished a nice orange one and was very productive...:biggrin:

Water Temp - 60 around the Church and 55 at upper shoals...

monktrout
07-15-2009, 11:02 AM
MadisonBoats, Thanks for the midge photo. I've gone to a sz22 grey with a black bead. I'll think smaller. Scud paterns get overlooked especially on the lower end. We should be downstream of the church. I'll look for you. Depending on generation we should be on the river from 9a-1p.
Sure Knots, Monk

mstone
07-15-2009, 08:04 PM
Madisonboats,
what size orange scud would you recommend on the Clinch? I have some in 14 and 16 but thought they may be too big.
mstone

gverholek
07-15-2009, 09:35 PM
I fished a #16 Zebra today and took 30-40 fish in a couple of hours before the fog lifted and the catching quit. I've not had to go smaller than #18 in the past several months. I can't see well enough to tie on anything smaller.

MadisonBoats
07-16-2009, 09:05 AM
I fished a #16 Zebra today and took 30-40 fish in a couple of hours before the fog lifted and the catching quit. I've not had to go smaller than #18 in the past several months. I can't see well enough to tie on anything smaller.

Actually, I meant to indicate that the midge macro invertebrate were in the 22-24 hook size range. I usually fish that size in calm water above the Church Area. I believe I would follow GVERHOLEK's lead and keep the midge size in the 16-18 range down around the Church Shoals. That water moves a bit faster and you need to get their attention pretty quick.

The scuds I have been using are a size 16...They like pretty in pink too:rolleyes:

monktrout
07-17-2009, 09:27 PM
Can't complain about the fishing on the lower Clinch. Lots of flies worked well for the three of us. All nice fish. The stars aligned today and the fish were acccepting of comprimised patterns and presentations. Certainly not a challenge for my fishing partners, but glad they let me come along. Monk

ChemEAngler
07-21-2009, 08:13 PM
How about that article in Sunday's paper? Surprised I haven't seen anything about that yet....

Some people really rant about putting fishing reports on here, but that article in the paper I think will really bring in the crowds. I have had 3 people at work who don't normally trout fish tell me that they are going this weekend with corn in hand to try and get in on that action. Oh well.

Tippet
07-21-2009, 08:40 PM
It sucks, the article was written in my opinion to get publicity for the ORVIS fly shop. If they truly cared about fishing on the clinch they would of interviewed with the local fly shop (CR) or a local guide service, those are the people who know the clinch and get the daily reports. I did however like the picture of the guy high sticking below the weir. It never fails on the weekend if you drive by he is in that same hole high stick the you know what out of it. With that said there might be an influx on fisherman at the public access, but the drifters and private access boys will be okay :).

MadisonBoats
07-22-2009, 07:30 AM
Yeah, that was an add driven article...

ajh10567
07-22-2009, 11:45 AM
I fished down by the church this morning, and there was not another person that I could see until around 10 so the pressure was not bad this morning but I guess most of the people that read that article are weekend only fisherman.

waterwolf
07-22-2009, 01:54 PM
Most people have jobs and work during the week;)

ajh10567
07-23-2009, 07:25 AM
Yeah I know, but what I meant is that it is not out of control just yet. I was on the caney fork last thursday and it was really crowded for a weekday.

Treecatcher2
07-23-2009, 01:55 PM
I think Waterwolf has been talking to my wife. She seems to have the same objections to my dedication.

MadisonBoats
07-23-2009, 07:29 PM
The weir was out of control this morning - on a Thursday...

Well, I am worn out after fishing 12 hours at about every wading spot on the river and not drifting...However, will be drifting tomorrow. I think we have the hatch dialed in after about 10 fly changes...:rolleyes:

waterwolf
07-24-2009, 08:03 AM
On the article...

There has yet to be an article, book, pamphlet, or any other form of media which has any accuracy regarding the Clinch, Cumberland, Holston, South Holston, etc etc. Every single one is some sort of skewed perspective based on the writing of a novice on each particular river. The authors would have been better served spending their time on the river and learning, rather then at home in front of a computer.

Heck one famous example from an article on the Cumberland is where the author didn't even realize which state the river occupied in its trout stretches.

Others have gone as far as to state Royal Wulff's and Red Scuds are the flies of choice for the Clinch.

It is sad that these "authors" put so much time and effort into producing common jargain which is of little use to anyone other then themselves.

On the latest Clinch article, it is what it is....and is basically an ad and nothing more. The crowds and impact that this sort of stuff has on a resource can seriously damage what others enjoy, all so one person can make a buck.

I wonder if the "expert" is the same cat I have seen the last few times down the river with 8 million stickers covering boat, truck, and trailer, and has seemingly been lost on the river when it comes to actually putting hooks in mouths.

Sad how this sport has changed over the last 20 years....

ChemEAngler
07-24-2009, 01:42 PM
Waterwolf,

I agree with you. Once the article came out I had a couple people ask me about it, and I basically said it was more of an ad for Orvis Sevierville. I don't fault Kris Maurer for this piece, he was only providing info to the reporter. Look at the picture in the article, does that look like fun to anybody? I count 11 fishermen in that little section of river. I wish the author would have asked himself how this picture would look after publishing this piece.

I do give out information on the message board, and I have started limiting that recently. This guy can list all the succesful flies he wants, but if the fisherman doesn't know how or where to fish them then he won't catch squat. I think this will cause a short flurry of weekend activity on the river. However, once the casual fisherman realizes that it isn't as easy fishing as the article alluded to then it will slack off again. I know many people who only fish that river during the sulfur hatch when the trout are stupidly aggressive. Also, bring on football season, the more early afternoon games the better. Let everybody stay home watching the game and I will be out catching the fish....

TOPPER
07-24-2009, 02:32 PM
Let me get this straight… You all think that the growth of a sport and its industry, an industry that brings so much happiness and enjoyment to us all is SAD?! You think it’s sad that more people might learn of our state’s wonderful resources and enjoy them? In the big picture if more people educate themselves and get out and enjoy resources such as the Clinch it would only lead to more state and or federal funding…and the byproduct of more funding will be a better cared-for and a better managed resource. Stop being so selfish and negative, it’s not just about you or your personal space on your home water. If it wasn’t for the growth of our sport/industry and continued new interest/education of our shared resources businesses like C&R outfitters, LRO, and all the local guides would have to find a different way to make a living. And then you wouldn’t have a message board to spend all your free time on…
I’ll tell you what I think is sad. People who hide behind their keyboard lobbing “shots” at other people or write with authority about subjects they know little or nothing about (like the true intention of the KNS article)…that’s sad! It’s posts like this and their authors that have forced so many quality people to lose interest in this message board. Do you actually read the stuff you all type before you post it. Have you taken the time to realize that your words might offend someone? Or is that what you’re trying to do?

Regards,
DOUG MOORE

P.S.
If you have a problem with the accuracy and abilities of these authors, maybe you should step-up, get off the message boards and write your own article, book, or pamphlet. I’m sure it would be a bestselling hit.

waterwolf
07-24-2009, 02:52 PM
Let me get this straight… You all think that the growth of a sport and its industry, an industry that brings so much happiness and enjoyment to us all is SAD?! You think it’s sad that more people might learn of our state’s wonderful resources and enjoy them? In the big picture if more people educate themselves and get out and enjoy resources such as the Clinch it would only lead to more state and or federal funding…and the byproduct of more funding will be a better cared-for and a better managed resource. Stop being so selfish and negative, it’s not just about you or your personal space on your home water. If it wasn’t for the growth of our sport/industry and continued new interest/education of our shared resources businesses like C&R outfitters, LRO, and all the local guides would have to find a different way to make a living. And then you wouldn’t have a message board to spend all your free time on…
I’ll tell you what I think is sad. People who hide behind their keyboard lobbing “shots” at other people or write with authority about subjects they know little or nothing about (like the true intention of the KNS article)…that’s sad! It’s posts like this and their authors that have forced so many quality people to lose interest in this message board. Do you actually read the stuff you all type before you post it. Have you taken the time to realize that your words might offend someone? Or is that what you’re trying to do?

Regards,
DOUG MOORE

P.S.
If you have a problem with the accuracy and abilities of these authors, maybe you should step-up, get off the message boards and write your own article, book, or pamphlet. I’m sure it would be a bestselling hit.


My name is Jim Jordan, I worked at The Creel for 11 years and guided on the Clinch and Holston for 6 years, still guide a few times a year now, but have pretty much retired. Most folks on here know who I am, and most on the river know me as well. I pretty much keep to myself on the water and do not get in any ones way, nor speak to many either. Nothing personal with anyone, just enjoy peace and quiet on the river. I am not ego stricken enough to say whether I am capable of writing an accurate publication on the river, but others might support my qualifications.

I have also been fortunate to have known Byron and Paula long before they purchased LRO from its previous owner and watched the operation grow from a store which bought its inventory from us at the Creel, to where it is today.

The Clinch receives zero federal funding, I repeat zero, if it does someone more educated then me please elaborate. The state contributes fish every year, which the $$$$ for that comes from license sales of all types, not just trout stamps.

15 years ago when seeing another person at 61 bridge (Jail/Church for the newbies) was a rarity, there was plenty of funding and fish for all 3 of us that fished that stretch of river.

The more people that come, the more problems and negative impacts will be felt all around, period. Ask the folks in Fort Smith, MT how much it impacted their river. Or ask any of the hot spot locations around the world how their resources responded after several articles about them. The outcome is always the same, the resource suffers at the expense of an onset of new users. ALWAYS!!!

If my words offend someone then so be it, folks need to toughen up. If a person is going to jump into the public spotlight then get ready to get blinded every now and then. I stand behind that every piece of printed material I have ever read regarding this regions fishing is horribly inaccurate and the authors had little if any experience with the subject they choose to pontificate about. I am not out to offend, but if it happens then the offended probably know full and well they match the description I describe.

If anyone wishes to discuss this with me personally then please shoot me an e-mail and we can talk further.

ChemEAngler
07-25-2009, 12:06 AM
Topper,

I am sure the author released his piece with the best of intentions, and my comment about it being an ad for Orvis was not really necessary. I also feel that he was targeting fly fisherman with his article, and that is also a positive.

However, my problem with the article is this: When somebody starts talking about high numbers of quality fish being caught from a local tailwater and puts that information out there for large numbers to see, it becomes something different. The people who know how to fish the Clinch knew how fine a tailwater it was all along. I think that placing this article in the News Sentinel makes every meat fisherman who hasn't fished the Clinch lately start having visions of a trout Shangri-La, and they place it at the top of their to-do lists. As I stated earlier, I have already had 3 people tell me this week that they are going there with corn in hand to try and get in on that action. What the Clinch does not need is an onslaught of meat fishermen coming over there keeping their limit of fish and throwing back all of the gut hooked fish that are either in the slot or undersized. I mean we may as well place signs up at Gander Mtn, Bass Pro Shop, and every local Wal-Mart telling every fisherman who walks in "Free Fresh Trout. Bring your stringer and take a load home."

To me, had this article came about in another publication it would not have had as potentially negative impacts. I hope I am only seeing a worst case scenario, and I am completely wrong in what results may come.

Gerry Romer
07-25-2009, 06:26 PM
Let's get some facts straight here. The Sunday circulation of the Knoxville news Sentinel is 150,147. Weekday is 119,172. The population of the Knoxville metro market is 1,029,155. That would be a penetration of 11.6% on weekdays and 14.6% on Sundays.

Those are the facts. Now for some speculation based on 25+ years of newspaper advertising and marketing experience.

You're talking about a short article that was all but buried in the sports section of the Sunday paper. Take that circulation figure of 150,147 and cut it in about half and you'll have a rough estimate of the number of readers of the sports section. Cut that number in half again and you'll have a rough idea of the number of readers who actually noticed the article. Cut that number in half again and you'll have a rough estimate of the number of readers who actually read the article. Cut that number in half again and you'll have a rough estimate of the number of readers who retained any of the information in the article after they read it.

Okay. Now we've got some real serious numbers. You're talking about roughly 9,000 readers who may have retained any of the information in the article.

Let's be really generous and speculate that fully 3/4 of the readers who retained any information gleaned from the article decided to act upon that information.

What you're suggesting is that this massive army of 7,038 potentially enlightened KNS readers is going to drive en masse to Sevierville to patronize the Orvis store and then descend on the Clinch River armed to the teeth with thousands of dollars of Orvis merchandise. Enough to put LRO, C&R and Rolf Lanz, collectively, out of business. And of course all of the local guides will then have to file for unemployment since Kris Maurer (who neither guides nor provides a guide service from his store but rather refers all inquiries to local guides, including C&R, but who is an accomplished tail-water fly fisherman) will have single-handedly put them all out of business.

Anyone who thinks that the KNS has any real impact on anything in this market is delusional. Especially when it comes to such a tiny niche market as fly fishing.

What does, however, have a real negative impact on the fly fishing industry and market is the collective pontifications and drivel of a few self-exalted individuals with diarrhea of the keyboard. People who live to see their own sense of self-importance and self-worth drifting in the ether for all eternity.

You want to have a positive impact on the sport of fly fishing? Spew your bile at meat fishers and hardware slingers. Have fun!! For example, you could pretend you're just one of them and you have a firm conviction that waxworms work way beter than corn. Knock yourselves out!

Yes, I read the article Sunday morning with my third cup of decaf. I found it to be an interesting mid-summer analysis of a lot of the chatter I've been hearing about the Clinch. In no way did any of it come across as an ad for Orvis or the Orvis store and to suggest otherwise is just plain silly. In point of fact, the Orvis store is mentioned exatly twice in the article. The first mention is by way of introducing Kris Maurer in the fourth paragraph, and the second mention is all the way down in the fifteenth paragraph where Kris is talking about the fact that one need not be a "pro" to enjoy the new-found vitality of the Clinch - it unabashedly mentions the free casting lessons at the Orvis store in Sevierville. Talk about shameless exploitation of the media!!

I believe a few folks on this board owe Kris an apology. And while you're at it why not throw in a big "thank you" for Kris's committing the Orvis store and it's resources to the success of Troutfest 2009? Not to mention his own personal involvement. But I suppose you all just saw that as another crass marketing ploy...

By the way, I didn't see anywhere in this collection of drivel a link to the article in question, so I'm providing one here in the hope that people can read it for themselves and make up their own minds and not continue to be led like sheep by the "great thinkers" on this message board. What a radical concept!!

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2009/jul/19/sinking-hooks-into-clinch/

Hopefully, I'll have my own thoughts on the Clinch posted sometime this weekend. For now, this was all I could stomach.

Gerry Romer

nvr2L8
07-25-2009, 07:35 PM
Gerry,

Welcome back - you've been sort of scarce lately. Glad to see you haven't lost anything in your absence. Now, tell us how you really feel.

BTW, have you ever heard an explanation as to why the LCP gorge is off limits? I know that was a favorite of yours before it was closed.

Byron Begley
07-25-2009, 07:37 PM
Hi Folks,

On behalf or LRO I apologize to Kris if he was offended by anything written on our message board. He is one of my close friends. The federal funds Doug Moore is referring to is an excise tax that falls currently under the Wallop-Breaux re-authorization that I believe began originally as the Dingle-Johnson act back when I was a kid in the 1950's. I don't know all the facts so please do your own research and don't rely on my recollection. Fishing tackle, fishing boats, boat fuel, bird watching equipment and other outdoor sporting goods are taxed at a percentage of wholesale cost. It is probably less on boats. Recently the tax was changed on fly rods to $10 per rod instead of 10% of wholesale cost. I don't know all of the tax rates but fishing tackle for the most part is 10%. Funding from this act ends up in the Sportfish Restoration and Boating Trust Fund. That tax is re-distributed to State wildlife agencies based on the number of licenses sold. I remember one year I heard that TWRA received over $4 million in federal funds. I remember the total excise tax raised over $500 million at one point. I would guess that number is less now. Fishing tackle and boat sales are down, way down. So Doug's statement about our tackle industry creating federal funding for fisheries in Tennessee seems correct the way I look at it. Again, this is information derived from my failing memory so I could be wrong. I have not looked into it in a while.

I hope the newspaper doesn't call me and ask questions about fishing in the Smokies. I think I'll call in sick that day or ask our fine people working in the shop to tell them I died.

Byron

Maurer
07-25-2009, 08:11 PM
Hey Byron, no need for an apology. I do hope the Clinch doesn't get too crazy as that was not my intention. I was only super stoked about fishing it this spring and had been having a blast. When I was asked about my recent fishing by the author I thought it'd be cool to read a little about fly fishing instead of bass fishing in the paper. Anyways tightlines to all and I can't wait to get rolling with Troutfest 2010, it's gonna be sick.

Kris Maurer

tennswede
07-25-2009, 08:18 PM
Thanks to Doug Moore and Gerry Romer, for some common sense and telling it they way it is.

ChemEAngler
07-25-2009, 11:37 PM
Gerry,
Thanks for breaking it down by the numbers and giving the link.

Byron,
No way I would want to be in your shoes if somebody does come a calling wanting a fishing report. You can never make everybody happy.

Everybody else,
I would like to apologize for anything I have said in this thread that may have offended anybody. I said earlier that I did not fault Kris for anything in the article, but I will apologize to Kris for even mentioning his name. Those of you who know me, by either fishing with me or chatting on the river, know that I wouldn't have said anything to offend anybody or question somebody's beliefs. That's just not me. I got defensive when I immediately started thinking about the potentially negative impact this article could have on my home water of 15 years. I got a case of "diarrhea of the keyboard" as Gerry put it. But thankfully, as is the case with most diarrhea, it clears up over time.

I just felt I needed to offer up this response and apology.

Tight lines to all.

Gerry Romer
07-26-2009, 01:41 AM
Travis --

Thanks!

Gerry

smokyfisher
07-26-2009, 08:52 AM
Gary,
What else could be said, you did it spot on.
Thanks
Dave