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View Full Version : Tuckasegee River System Map (Deep Cr, Oconaluftee R, Raven Fork, etc.)


JoeFred
07-14-2009, 10:19 PM
The Tuckasegee River System tributaries map is available for viewing. It covers the Carolina side of park from Forney Creek on the west to Straight Fork on the east. More details being added. Please keep checking back.

2-15-2012 Update: Deleted map image & link previously posted.

11-18-2009 UPDATE: The original map depicted below has been replaced by the Oconaluftee map and the new Tuckasegee map which includes from Forney Creek on the west to Cooper Creek on the east and their feeder streams.


JoeFred

Jim Casada
07-15-2009, 12:47 PM
JoeFred--Just took a quick peek at your Tuckasegee drainage map and noticed a couple of omissions. I'm not sure what source(s) of information you are using to devleop the maps, and the omissions are fairly recent in nature. There are now two designated backcountry campsites in the Indian Creek (feeder of Deep creek) drainage. The one of the greatest interest to fishermen is situated at what is locally known as the turnaround (i. e., where the Park's gravel road up Indian Creek ends and where the trail over the the Bryson Place takes off). Virtually no one fishes Indian Creek these days, and to a considerable degree that's understandable. Much of it is badly overgrown. Yet this was Mark Cathey's home water and it was also where I spent most of the formative stages of my development as a fly fisherman.

One other thought, and the logistics of this may make it a non-starter. Is there any chance of including topo lines in the maps? For any fisherman who enjoys bushwhacking or really remote places, there's no better way to get a pretty good idea of how rough the going will be. Jim Casada

JoeFred
07-15-2009, 05:44 PM
...a couple of omissions...there are now two designated backcountry campsites in the Indian Creek (feeder of Deep creek) drainage....The one of the greatest interest to fishermen is situated at what is locally known as the turnaround (i. e., where the Park's gravel road up Indian Creek ends and where the trail over the the Bryson Place takes off). Virtually no one fishes Indian Creek these days, and to a considerable degree that's understandable. Much of it is badly overgrown. Yet this was Mark Cathey's home water and it was also where I spent most of the formative stages of my development as a fly fisherman.

One other thought, and the logistics of this may make it a non-starter. Is there any chance of including topo lines in the maps?...Jim Casada

Jim, many thanks for pointing out the missing campsites and for sharing about yours and Mark's stomping grounds. I added Nos 46, 51 & 57. Locations are roughly those shown on the online park GSM Trail Map. (Please suggest any needed tweaking.)

Regarding topo lines... I added my version of such to Indian Creek. When it came to deciding how to do topos, you could say I was "all over the map" :rolleyes:. I've gone with showing the 3000 ft contour throughout plus 200 ft elevation increments at their intersections with selected streams. Clearly Indian Creek qualifies.

2/15 Update: Deleted map image previously posted.

In general the TR map is very preliminary. I will be adding more detail to the other streams as time permits, and in an order that seems most useful to members of this board like yourself.

Thanks again. I'm looking forward to getting your book.

JF

MadisonBoats
07-16-2009, 09:20 AM
JoeFred,
Another great job!

Jim Casada
07-16-2009, 02:27 PM
JoeFred--Thanks, and the locations of the campsites look about right to me. As for the approach topo-wise, it is an interesting one. My brother, Don, who has all the technical skills in the family, takes a somewhat similar tactic in a whole bunch of graphs which will be part of my book. It's a bit difficult to explain in words (one of those things better seen than explained) but he does graphs of each stream which show the change in elevation over a given number of miles. The number of miles depends on the length of the stream. The graphs also include waypoints such as campsites, trail crossings, and feeder creeks. There's an entire appendix, with dozens of color graphs, devoted to this. More than anything else, the graphs tell the reader just how rough a stream (or section of stream) might be. Generally speaking, those on the Tennessee side tend to be rougher in their headwaters, but I personally would classify the middle section (gorge) of Raven Fork as the single roughest place in the entire Park. Jim Casada

GrouseMan77
07-16-2009, 03:18 PM
Mr. Casada, I wish you would discontinue with the lurking on these old fishing message boards and get that book out. I can not wait to see it.

I was able to attend two of your talks at the outdoors show in Charlotte. I thoroughly enjoyed the way you casually shared your vast knowledge of hunting, fishing and travel.

I bought Grouse Feathers on your recommendation. That is a terrific piece of outdoor literature.

Good luck with the book.

Jim Casada
07-16-2009, 07:31 PM
Jason--Fret not--I can lurk because the book is finished and in the hands of a printer. I looked at dust jacket and cover material today. If all goes well the book will be out in late August or early September (although I've had enough experience with publishers to know that counting on things going well is sort of like figuring on a heavy hatch every time you fish a Smokies' stream).
Glad you enjoyed my presentations and the Charlotte show. I'll be there again next year (I think that will mark 10 years in a row), and you can rest assured that streams of the Smokies will be one of my seminar topics. Jim Casada

JoeFred
07-16-2009, 09:51 PM
JoeFred,
Another great job!

Thanks, MB!

...graphs of each stream which show the change in elevation over a given number of miles. The number of miles depends on the length of the stream. The graphs also include waypoints such as campsites, trail crossings, and feeder creeks...
Jim, the graphs should be an amazingly good resource. Sounds as though you and Don have done a lot of planning. Can't wait!!

JF

JoeFred
07-28-2009, 09:40 PM
Considerable additions have been made to the Tuckasegee system map. Still to be added: topos, landmarks and more. Map is still preliminary at this stage so there may still be typos and worse.

11-18-2009 UPDATE: The original Tuckasegee map has been replaced by the Oconaluftee map (http://www.smokystreams.com/maps/assets/oconalufteeriver.pdf)and the new Tuckasegee map (http://www.smokystreams.com/maps/assets/tuckasegeeriver.pdf) which includes from Forney Creek on the west to Cooper Creek on the east and their feeder streams.

TIP: Although printing this entire map (for free) using Acrobat is not an option, you can zoom in and print specific portions of the map at pretty good quality by cutting (using Alt-Print Screen on the PC) the Acrobat window and then pasting into WordPad, your word processor, etc. The print results you get will depend on a number of factors including the extent of the area selected, screen resolution setting, document orientation and margin sizes.

JF

Jim Casada
07-29-2009, 08:43 AM
JoeFred--Really nice job. One question correction and one thought. Unless local lore and place names have it all wrong, the stream you show as Hyatt Branch on lower Noland Creek is Luarel Branch. I don't have my collection of topo maps with me (I'm at my father's home in Bryson City), but I've always known that stream as Laurel Branch (it holds trout). I don't know that it is readily feasible, but a long-range project you might want to consider is showing which streams hold trout and are fishable. You could have some kind of rating system for fishability such as "bow-and-arrow backbreakers," "wide open," "tight," etc. Similarly, you could show which species the stream holds. I take appreciable steps, in words, in that direction in my forthcoming book, but I hadn't given it much thought, map-wise, until now. I'm not very savvy technology-wise, but I do recognize the fact that maps, properly used and with background knowledge underlying them, can be among an angler's finest friends. Anyway, keep up the fine work. Jim Casada

JoeFred
07-30-2009, 01:37 AM
Jim, thanks for catching the Hyatt Branch miscue. I corrected to Laurel Branch

Thanks, also, for the feature ideas. At the very least, I’d plan to highlight sections of streams (not specific honey holes, of course) where the specks are now showing up. I want the maps to be somewhat real time, updated, say monthly, to reflect conditions over the last year. I would glean the latest finds and events from this great message board and other reputable sources. Other features might be bridge washouts, areas with problem bears, etc. I am considering posting a poll to see what members think. I know this type thing tends to be controversial.

Although I love the sport, I wish to rely on you and others far more knowledgeable than I as to rating the streams and for other angling insights. To that end I have created a demo Streams Index (http://www.smokystreams.com/streamsindex/) page on my site, which cites references to certain streams in Smokies books by Kirk, Jacobs, Rutter and, soon you, if you are open to that. Please take a look see.

JoeFred

Jim Casada
07-30-2009, 06:49 AM
JoeFred--I like the speckled trout (you'll never catch a tradition-oriented son of the Smokies like me calling them brook trout, although mountain trout, specks, and natives, as well as epeckled trout, are fine) coverage idea. One thing about specks, with rare exceptions, they are far enough back of beyond that hot spotting isn't a huge problem.
As for the stream index, it's an interesting concept. My book (and I get proofs today) will have mention of far more streams than you list, because I cover a lot of small feeders as well as every major stream. There are at least four other books you ought to consider perusing if you want completeness--Joe Manley's from early Park days, Jim Gasque's classic, J. E. B. Hall's book of a few years back (covers N. C. side only), and H. Lea Lawrence's book. Harry Middleton's On the Spine of Time also mentions a number of Park streams, although it is strictly fictional. Still, it is so full of mood and feel and so wonderfully written it deserves reading by every Smokies angler. Jim Casada

JoeFred
07-30-2009, 09:00 AM
Jim, like you and many others that post, I believe sharing "back of beyond" trip reports isn't a bad thing particularly in light of the success the restoration program is having.

The initial list of streams I chose was just to put together a concept page without getting bogged down in HTML ****. Over time I plan to list every stream on my maps for which I can find a plausible reference. As of now I have 150 such in my database and wish to add more. I'm pleased, but not surprised, to hear your book will have lots. Can't wait!

I will definitely look to add the other books. Thanks for this and all the rest you are sharing with us all.

JoeFred

PS. I added a "k" to “specs” in my previous post. I guess “specs” comes from my working around construction. I must never, ever let spec work, or any kind for that matter, stand in the way of my pursuit of the natives. ;)

JoeFred
08-03-2009, 10:17 PM
Sorry for replying to my own post, but I wanted to let everyone know that I am in the process of splitting the one map I had dubbed the Tuckasegee River system into two maps. Until I formally finish doing so, you may view the following temporary scissor-job versions using these links:

Oconaluftee River System (includes Raven Fk, Bradley Fk & many more feeders and their tributaries)
08-21-09 UPDATE: New "Luftee" Map now available via a new thread (http://littleriveroutfitters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12814).

West Tuckasegee River System (feeder streams include those from Deep Creek on the east to just west of Forney Creek and their tribs)

I truly "misunderestimated" the extent of streams, etc. in this marvelous area of the park. Just wasn't enough room on a mere 22" x 33" piece of paper to fit in all the good stuff.

Still to be added are topos, landmarks, etc.

JoeFred

JoeFred
11-01-2009, 10:07 PM
JoeFred--...
As for the stream index, it's an interesting concept. My book (and I get proofs today) will have mention of far more streams than you list, because I cover a lot of small feeders as well as every major stream. There are at least four other books you ought to consider perusing if you want completeness--Joe Manley's from early Park days, Jim Gasque's classic, J. E. B. Hall's book of a few years back (covers N. C. side only), and H. Lea Lawrence's book. Harry Middleton's On the Spine of Time also mentions a number of Park streams, although it is strictly fictional. Still, it is so full of mood and feel and so wonderfully written it deserves reading by every Smokies angler. Jim Casada

Jim, in addition your fine book, I now have the one by H. Lea Lawrence and one on hikes by Russ Manning and place names by Allen Coggins. When you have the time, check out the stream additions and book references at:
........ LINKS DELETED

Thanks again for your helpful advice,
JF