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spotlight
11-19-2009, 11:56 PM
Does anyone know how far the stream continues once Bradley Fork Trail ends and Cabin Flats Trail begins? in the brown book "hiking trails of the Smokies" it says that there is a huge log jam at that trail intersection but it don't say how far the stream continues. Has anyone fished up that far? if so how was it? the elevation profile shows it to be right at 3000ft is there a chance at maybe catching some specks at this elevation? and if anyone has fished this far up is the creek fishable? I have been to the turnaround and seen some nice holes on my way up to Pecks Corner.

GrouseMan77
11-20-2009, 07:33 AM
Spotlight,

My wife and I camped up at Cabin Flats over 4th of July this year. We did not fish above the campsite because there was a pretty large group of spin fisherman (?) up there. We caught specks at the site and well below it.

Jim Casada
11-20-2009, 08:32 PM
Spotlight--There are specks aplenty in Bradley Fork and its high elevation feeders. From around the confluence of Tennessee Branch upstream the whole drainage becomes a mountain trout haven. One of the three biggest specks I have ever seen anywhere in the Smokies came from these waters (just under 13 inches). Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

spotlight
11-21-2009, 12:20 AM
Hey thanks for the tips guys I have yet to hook a speck yet just browns and bows so far, I will post results of the trip when I return on Sunday I am looking forward to seeing the old growth forest. I have heard there are some really tall trees at the end of cabin Flats at the campsite.

pineman19
11-21-2009, 10:42 AM
Cabin Flats is a beautiful area. Try the water below the turnaround as well. They're some nice browns up there in addition to bows and specs.

spotlight
11-22-2009, 11:59 PM
I found that there wasn't a lot of holes from the turnaround up to the campsite rough terrain through there but nice views mostly shallow water. From the turnaround back to Chasteen Creek Trail there were some nice holes I seen but didn't get to fish any of them I fished upstream from the turnaround.

Fishing was slow granted I'm a novice at best I caught 3 bows only one was around 6-7 inches the other 2 were like minnow's I fished dry with a dropper at 1st then switched to just the dry I had one accidental hook up that seemed like a nice fish but I never set the hook properly and that fish got off.

Campsite #49 is a very nice wide site the weather was good Saturday the water temp there was 44 degrees not sure if that had something to do with the slow fishing maybe it's just me but I am still zero on the Smokie's brook trout. Were going back to campsite 50 for 2 days on Friday and I am going to fish the middle section I got some advice on patterns from Daniel lets see how it goes with more cooler weather on the way.

Crockett
11-23-2009, 09:34 AM
I stayed at cabin flats last year and it was really nice. I would love to go thier again. I didn't get to fish any but I did talk to an old guy on the trail with a fly rod who said he fished a lot above cabin flats and that there was a jet engine or some peice of airplane wreckage in the middle of the stream about a mile above the campsite that had been there for years. Anyone been up far enough to see that?

Denver1911
11-24-2009, 12:15 PM
I stayed at cabin flats last year and it was really nice. I would love to go thier again. I didn't get to fish any but I did talk to an old guy on the trail with a fly rod who said he fished a lot above cabin flats and that there was a jet engine or some peice of airplane wreckage in the middle of the stream about a mile above the campsite that had been there for years. Anyone been up far enough to see that?

Yes. I've seen it.

Crockett
11-24-2009, 01:37 PM
Bout how far up is it?

Denver1911
11-25-2009, 05:08 PM
Bout how far up is it?

About a mile I suppose. Hard to get there, but fun.

Jim Casada
11-25-2009, 10:20 PM
Denver 1911 and Crockett--I'm fascinated by your tale and postings on the wreckage. Do you have any idea of when the accident occurred? I haven't fished the area in question in years and, oddly enough given my local connections, never heard of this. Rest assured I plan to delve deeper, and any additional information you have would be most welcome. Meanwhile, I need to plan a spring trip which will put me in that area, although as someone in his late 60s, I'm not quite as eager to venture such distances as once was the case. Still, it sounds like something I'd love to look at, photograph (and as I plan to do forthwith), research. Thanks for an intriguing tidbit of Smokies lore.
Jim Casada

spotlight
11-25-2009, 10:37 PM
I am just curious is it a piece of the plane wreckage that sits along side of the Appalachian Trail near Snakeden Ridge Trail. That's about 12-14 miles as the crow fly's now I am curious.

There is also some wreckage on Snakeden Trail itself. The wreckage near the AT looks to be some sort of military aircraft. And Jim I bet if you shared some of your fishing knowledge you couldget a really good Sherpa to carry your stuff up the trail for you.

Denver1911
11-26-2009, 09:23 AM
Denver 1911 and Crockett--I'm fascinated by your tale and postings on the wreckage. Do you have any idea of when the accident occurred? I haven't fished the area in question in years and, oddly enough given my local connections, never heard of this. Rest assured I plan to delve deeper, and any additional information you have would be most welcome. Meanwhile, I need to plan a spring trip which will put me in that area, although as someone in his late 60s, I'm not quite as eager to venture such distances as once was the case. Still, it sounds like something I'd love to look at, photograph (and as I plan to do forthwith), research. Thanks for an intriguing tidbit of Smokies lore.
Jim Casada

When I first saw it (2005), I emailed the park service asking about it. Here is a quote from their response.

"This crash is an Air Force F-15 that crashed in 1992 during a trainingexercise. The air space above the Smokies and surrounding national forestsis a military training area due to the low population density.Park RangerGeorge Minnigh"

silvercreek
11-26-2009, 09:46 AM
Tried to find out some more info on this, but the only thing I could find was that it was a mid air collision between two F 15's during a training exercise. One pilot landed safely and the other ejected and survived. Bet that put the trout down for a while!

Crockett
11-26-2009, 10:18 AM
spotlight the wreckage on the AT near snake den ridge is a military F4 Phantom that crashed in 1984 near the summit of Inadu knob. I saw that in Jeff Wadley's book mayday mayday. He is a member of this sight and knows a lot about all the plane crashes in the smokies.

I don't remember anything in the book about the F-15 crash and I don't have my copy with me at the moment since I am out of town for Thanksgiving. The fisherman on the bradley fork trail who told me about the wreckage said it looked like a huge jet engine had fallen off a plane flying overhead and was laying right in the middle of the stream. He said it was way too big for anyone to ever remove it. He didn't mention any other wreckage nearby but maybe he didn't notice anything off the stream because it could have been overgrown and all.

Jim Casada
11-26-2009, 10:37 AM
Crockett, Silvercreek, and Denver--Thanks for all the info. I actually went straight to my shelves to consult Mayday, Mayday, which I own, but for some reason I can't lay my hands on the book. That might have something to do with having a collection of books which numbers somewhere around 15,000 and a system of organization that would be a librarian's worst nightmare.

I'm pretty sure the book (if not it, another one) does cover another plan crash with which I'm all too familiar. Filetus (sp.?) Ferguson was a local pilot who had his own landing strip in the Ferguson Fields (now owned by the Cherokees) along the Tuckasegee River. A local soldier was about to be AWOL and he convinced Ferguson to fly him back to his base. The weather was bad, with a low ceiling and fog, and they should never have taken off. Ferguson flew into a mountain and they were both killed. The Ferguson family were members of the Presbyterian Church in Bryson City, the congregation in which I grew up, and I was visiting my parents when the plane was reported lost. The preacher announced it in church and a few hours later the worst was confirmed.
I've read the book though and don't remember this being covered.

As for the Cabin Flats area, I've been in that area since 1992 but probably just didn't wade that particular stretch of stream. I don't know that my knowledge would draw interest from even the most inexpensive of Sherpas, but I intend to get there sometime in the coming year and check it out for myself.

Meanwhile I'm going to check with my brother and Ken Wise, two of the most knowledgeable folks I know when it comes to Park trails, and see what they have to say.

Again, thanks to all of you for insight on one more of the seemingly endless areas of interest in the Park's human history.

Jim Casada

www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

spotlight
11-26-2009, 07:08 PM
This is all very interesting, I will return to Cabin Flats in the spring and check it out, I love doing off trail hikes and fly fishing gives off trail a whole new meaning. Thanks for all of the interesting info on these plane crashes.

Jim Casada
11-26-2009, 08:59 PM
Spotlight--We obviously share a love of off-trail stuff. That's why I devoted so much attention to "Back of Beyond" in my book, and that's why a phone conversation earlier today with my brother left me envious (he had bushwhacked, or as he put it bushwhacked and briarwhacked, to Kelly Bennett Peak yesterday--we both knew Doc Kelly Bennett and from the peak bearing his name you can get a fine view of Bryson City and our boyhood home).
Who knows, come warmer weather we may cross paths up Cabin Flats way, because I've got to see that wreckage.
Jim Casada

spotlight
11-26-2009, 11:17 PM
Are you planning on doing an overnight at the campsite when you go? If so and you want some company I'd be glad to join you. Surely someone has to have a picture of that engine? I am glad I didn't find it I probably would have thought aliens had landed or something. I have been a good ways up a few streams so far, and it gets a bit erie at times when your alone.

All kinds of things run through your head like what if I were to slip and get knocked out? fall and break a leg? encounter a rouge bear, and then you get a strike and it's game on and you forget all of the dangers involved. Somehow I just don't think I'd be satisfied parking my truck and getting out and fishing to me it's the journey I am packed now for another 2 day trip up Bradly Fork. I fished today near Tremont the water temp was 42 and I had 2 small strikes in 2 hours of fishing, I hope to do better on Bradly Fork on Saturday the weather tomorrow is supposed to be cold and windy so no fishing til Saturday.

pineman19
11-27-2009, 08:58 AM
Spotlight,

I remember Ian Rutter doing on a report on spec fishing and seeing this engine a little over a year ago. He didn't name the stream, but I am sure that's where he was by the distances he hiked, etc. He also mentions the engine in Guide book for spec fishing in the Park. He says the engine is just below the junction of Chasm and Gulf prongs.

Neal

GrouseMan77
11-27-2009, 10:39 AM
Pineman19 beat me to it. You must keep some pretty good files.

pineman19
11-27-2009, 11:02 AM
Naw, just "Too Much Time on my Hands" as Styz would sing:biggrin:

mayday
12-01-2009, 12:56 PM
The engine part is from the F-15 which was involved in a mid-air collision over the Smokies. The crash site is actually near Pecks Corner shelter. Read Mayday! Mayday! and see photos and the story. What a nice Christmas gift it would be!!!

Jeff Wadley
Author, "Mayday! Mayday!"

sammcdonald
12-01-2009, 05:59 PM
mayday! mayday! available at all park bookstores and from www.smokiesinformation.org

shameless plug for the park and gsma

sammcdonald
12-01-2009, 06:04 PM
another point of interest up bradley fork is a single grave. it's about 3 miles up bradley fork...cross the bridge that takes the trail to the right side of bradley....about 6 foot bank on right....almost immediately after crossing over find the very small path up the bank....follow about 100 yards into the woods to the grave of a child...

Jim Casada
12-01-2009, 09:22 PM
Sam--I was really intrigued byyour mention of this grave site. Is the name of the child buried there given? Do you know any more details. It does not appear to be listed in The Cemeteries of Swain County, which is a very comprehensive but by no means complete reference work. Do you have any more history on the site. The presence of the path suggests Park nowledge and/or maintenance of the site, since there are paths to the dozen or more cemeteries in that general area--Luftee, Mingus Creek, Smokemont, etc. I assume you know about the slave cemetery near the Mingus Creek Mill?
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

sammcdonald
12-02-2009, 02:18 PM
jim, it is listed as tom huskey-child....nothing on the stone.....i have been to all the other sites you mention....
grave is at utm nad 27 289122 3942070

Jim Casada
12-04-2009, 04:39 PM
Sam--Thanks, and I'll look for it the next time I'm in the area. Pardon my ignorance, but I don't have a clue of what all the numbes and letters at the end of your post mean. At first glance I thought they might be GPS coordinates, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Yet I'm sure they provide some type of "it is located here" information. Kindly enlighten a hopelessly inept soul when it comes to technology.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

sammcdonald
12-04-2009, 07:24 PM
they are gps coordinates.....use utm setting, nad 27 choice, and input those numbers...i use a garmin cheapie hand held that i'v had for 6 years...

Jim Casada
12-04-2009, 09:04 PM
Sam--Thanks, and as I have made abundantly manifest, I don't use a GPS. I also don't own (and don't want) one of those infernal inventions of the devil known as a cell phone. I don't need one of those technological umbilical cords.
I reckon one of the days I'll wish I had one or the other, but I haven't been lost yet (although as Daniel Boone once said, I have been "temporarily misplaced) and that won't happen in the mountains. Downhill will always, with enough time and bushwhacking, get you to a trail and eventually civilization. I'll pass the coordinates on to my brother who, as an engineer, understands and uses all that stuff to splendid effect.
Truth be told, I reckon I was born about a century too late, and if I never watched another TV program it wouldn't ruin my life. On the other hand, take books away from me and I would be a desperate man.
Thanks for the information and explanation.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)
P. S. Lest any skeptics say, "why you've got a website so you must be slightly in touch with the modern world," I don't know doodly-squat about it the web presence. I just write my monthly newsletter (subscriptions are free, a deal you can't beat, although some might question whether the product is worth any more than the cost), prepare the book lists, fill the books orders, answer the queries, and cobble together the other material. What I can't handle driectly by e-mail I send to my webmaster in Missoula, Montana. She does the rest, and since she's a keen hunter and outdoors person, I'm completely comfortable with her work.

sammcdonald
12-04-2009, 09:18 PM
jim, just use the original route i described and you will find it....i just use a gps to plot where they are...so someday others can find them
sam

Jim Casada
12-04-2009, 10:06 PM
Sam--Yep, it sounds like a "can't miss it" location if one is half-way paying attention, although in the summertime some of the trails leading to cemeteries along 441 aren't readily noticeable (winter is another story). Of course there's a big difference between driving past in a vehicle and walking along the Bradley Fork Trail. What really bothers me is that I never noticed it before, and I have to have been by it 50 times over the years, although most of those would have been 50 years ago and as a boy I was ****-bent on getting to fish and not nearly as observant of other things as I should have been.
Age has a useful way of remnding one, at least in part because you slow down, that the fishing is only part of it.
Thanks.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

sammcdonald
12-04-2009, 11:12 PM
someday i'll tell ya of trying to find the doc connor graves and what i went thru....until tom robbins opened the door...wow, was i feeling foolish

spotlight
12-05-2009, 04:00 PM
Jim I just bought your book today at the Visitor Center in Townsend I must say I'm impressed so far lots of good information. Stopped in at the outfitters and watched Jack tie some flies that was a good time. It's been a very nice snowy day here in East Tennessee.

Jim Casada
12-05-2009, 07:04 PM
Spotlight--Thanks, and I hope you'll continue to enjoy it. Although I sent them stock a couple of weeks ago, I wasn't sure whether the visitor centers had the book on display yet. Obviously they do. All the best, and enjoy the snow. Here in S. C. it has just been grey and grim. Jim Casada
www.jimcasadoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadoutdoors.com)

spotlight
12-05-2009, 08:19 PM
It has been the same way here in Maryville Tennessee I suppose it's just that time of year. We had a nice dusting of snow today I prefer snow if it's going to be cloudy. Have a wonderful holiday season. I am hoping to learn a few things from the book and have something to do over the winter months.