View Full Version : What was that part 2 !

Carolina Boy
02-22-2010, 05:39 PM
Now i am sure for any of you, and there has been a lot, who read my "what was that" Mountain lion encounter and you probably saw the title of this and were expecting some additional sighting, haha....sorry no new lion sightings, but I was fishing the lower section of the trophy strech in Cherokee this weekend and saw something pretty cool. It was getting later in the PM and fish were rising here and there, I had just stuck a freak of nature sized bow and was about to call it, when i saw a fish rise about 10 feet in front of me, only as it came up it flipped upside down and looked very odd, and then is flipped again and I realized what was going on when the otter's head came around, the two were flowing down the river in a tussle, both fighting for survival I suppose you might say, they broke the surface once more before they disapeared down a huge run just below where the lufftee and raven fork come together. I have seen otters and I've seen lots of fish, heck I even saw a mountain lion, but that was a first for me to see an otter fighting a big ol' brown trout.

02-22-2010, 05:50 PM
Sorry you must be mistaken. Otter do not eat trout, particularly big trout. All the "experts" say so. First it is mountain lions and now otters. Regards, Silvercreek

02-22-2010, 06:34 PM
At least it wasn't a sasquatch. We have had a ton of reports from hunters in the county here in Alabama that I hunt of them seeing a sasquatch under there stands or across the fields. Even had some report that they actually grabbed the deer they had shot and ran back off into the woods with it. I have a stack of articles laying on the table at the camp house about them.

Now the most fun a feller can have is having a new guest up to the camp to do some weekend hunting and showing him those articles from the papers. Now the 2nd best thing that can hapen to a feller is to take that guest along for a ride after dark through the woods in the truck along with your father in law. Let your father in law do the driving. You shine a spot light out the window, then holler what the he11 are those eyes up so high. Now the third best thing that can happen is while the guest is trying to find those bigfoot eyes in the spot light, your father in law lets' the truck drift over to the side of the road and a tire throws a big tree limb against the side of the truck. Best thing of all is trying to catch that poor basket case of a guest as he is trying to climb out the drivers side window of the truck over the top of your father in law. That poor feller was scared out of his wits when that tree limb banged that truck. Lord what a riot it was watching him.

Now at the same camp we hunt, I was walking down one of the roads one evening through a bottom when some thing I have never heard in all of my years in the woods screamed at me. Scared me to death I tell you. Whatever it was, if it had stepped out onto the road or had let me see it, it would have had a ton of 06 holes through it. Never had anything spook me like that. The area is down next to a swamp bottom we have on the property. That place already spooks me on its' own as it is. Father in law laughs at me because I refuse to ride through that part of the woods after dark on the 4 wheelers. Coming back through the swamp area takes you about 10 minutes to get back to the camp house. I will take the long way around after dark which takes about 45 minutes to get back. Some thing just isn't right in that place.

Now days when people ask me how I lost my leg from the amputation, I tell them I was hunting and was attacked by a sasquatch and he chewed it off, and the doctors couldn't save it. The knuckle heads that will really believe that story just astounds me.

02-23-2010, 01:47 AM
I don't believe nuthang i hear and only half of what i see! that said......since you are not a politician, i geuss i can see how bigfoot would have a pet that is half black panther/river otter that eats giant brown trout that no one would ever catch. but when the mothership lands on clingmans dome and the reptiliens starts fishing using the Tenkera method i will know the truth, because the truth is out there!!!!!

cool stories, i do believe. just because everyone does not see something does not mean it doesn't exist. Mink, i am 38 and saw my first fishing clear creek last year. animals that don't want to be seen will not be seen.......

Jim Casada
02-23-2010, 08:43 PM
Carolina Boy--I can assure you the "fight" was a decidedly uneven one. A fair number of participants on this forum, along with some Park officials and others, have pretty well dismissed my deep concern about otters. They suggest it's only in highly specialized situations, such as exceptionally low water, hatcheries, or very still water, that otters pose a problem. About all I can say is bull butter.
The situation you observed is in a location of big water (and streams are very full just now), and quite possibly the tribal authorities will soon be facing major problems. However, they will address them forcefully and directly, something which will never be done in the Park.
I've seen too much otter damage in recent years, and heard too many other accounts, to have any doubts about what they are doing. Sadly, it will only get worse in the Park. It will take a whole lot of convincing to change my opinion on that, and interestingly, in the aftermath of an article I wrote about otter damage in "Predator Xtreme" magazine (I write column for them), I had two praise-filled e-mails from wildlife biologists saying I was squarely on target. They had both been big otter fans until sufficient reality, in the form of otters killing hundreds of trout, changed their views. Equally interesting was the fact that both individuals begged me to keep their identities secret. It's just not politically correct to criticize these "cuddly" killers, but then I can't recall anyone ever accusing me of being either politically correct or overly diplomatic.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)
Jim Casada

02-23-2010, 09:02 PM
I saw a pair this fall on the North River above the campground. They looked like they had been feeding well.

02-23-2010, 09:28 PM
Ask some of the cabin owners on Snowbird , they will attest to the carnage. They are some big well fed rascals.

Carolina Boy
02-23-2010, 11:20 PM
Well I can tell you Mr. Casada the water is up, and was up, the area where they were tusslin was easily 4 feet deep, it was a nice sized brown I would say certainly stocked, Any otter near the trophy strech is gonna be WELL fed.

02-24-2010, 10:00 AM
I'm betting that during the spawn and in the winter when the trout are sluggish they are easy pickings for otters. Silvercreek

Carolina Boy
02-24-2010, 10:56 AM
Yea especially some of those monster bows that are struggling to stay alive anyways, some of those guys would feed a otter family for quite some time, I have seen quite a few of them with battle scars there, and a guy I was fishing near said one he caught had it's gut sliced open pretty good, but I wonder, if I was an otter and was fine eating dough belly's I would probably move of the luftte and onto the raven for better/bigger/and easier meal options, maybe that will reduce the otters on the park stream near there, any thoughts about that Mr. Casada?

Jim Casada
02-24-2010, 01:08 PM
Carolina Boy--There's no doubt that they are going to be drawn to the Tribal Enterprise waters (and already have been). However, otters roam widely and kill not only for food but for fun. As someone else pointed out, big trout, especially in times such as when they are spawning, are particularly vulnerable.
As Rockhopper rightly notes, they are a major problem on lower Big Snowbird, and they have, according to reports I get from friends in Robbinsville, just about wiped out Big Santeetlah Creek. It will be interesting to see how long it takes TU or FFF to devote some attention to this. I'm not holding my breath, and I'm a life member of both organizations.
What we may see developing is an angling equivalent of what is happening with reintroduced wolves in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming. Elk herds have been devastated, deer numbers are way down, and even so tree-hugging USFWS biologists remain in denial. I'm not saying that state wildlife folks in N. C. are in denial (they know they've got a big problem) but you can rest assured that Park officials are. I don't know what the situation is in Tennessee outside the Park, although I'm sure some of you do.
To me, forgetting the Park for the moment, it is sort of self-defeating for state folks to rear trout at considerable cost on the one hand, with angler pleasure specifically in mind, while they have restocked otters which prey on those same trout in deadly fashion. To me, otters are the spawn of Beelzebub. Go figure!
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)
P. S. Maybe it could be worse. In the middle of writing this diatribe I had a longtime friend who is a serious turkey hunting and book collector (I peddle out-of-print turkey hunting books) call me and report on the reintroduction of fishers in Pennsylvania where he lives. They are wreaking unholy havoc on turkeys (and other creatures).

02-24-2010, 01:56 PM
Yea especially some of those monster bows that are struggling to stay alive anyways, some of those guys would feed a otter family for quite some time, I have seen quite a few of them with battle scars there, and a guy I was fishing near said one he caught had it's gut sliced open pretty good, but I wonder, if I was an otter and was fine eating dough belly's I would probably move of the luftte and onto the raven for better/bigger/and easier meal options, maybe that will reduce the otters on the park stream near there, any thoughts about that Mr. Casada?

They can eat more fish in a day then we can catch !

02-24-2010, 02:11 PM
Jim is right about them killing fish for fun not all ways for food they are BAD news my Dad has some on the farm i have watch them eat some big fish and clean some ponds out! you can kill two and five more show up!

03-02-2010, 12:49 PM
Just curious, what would be the fine for killing an otter, either in or outside the Park?

03-02-2010, 01:16 PM
Outside the Park, Tennesse has a short hunting season for otter. There is no limit I believe. In fact it ended last weekend. You have to get a CITES permit if I recall correctly. Silvercreek

Jim Casada
03-02-2010, 01:46 PM
MBB--In the Park you'd be in a passel of trouble. In both N. C. and Tennessee (state areas) you can trap otters during a specified season. Once upon a time their fur brought pretty good prices, but it has been a long time since I've paid much attention to the prices for furs.
Jim Casada

03-02-2010, 03:11 PM
I have seen otters a few times on the Hiwassee River. My wife and I watched a family of otters for about 15 minutes behind what is now the Townsend KOA. If you have ever watched otters swim underwater, they can catch trout and whatever other fish are in the water.
You can get into trouble for a lot of things in the park. I led a couple of folks to the park for fishing last June. Before the trip, I got a fishing regulation booklet. I was surprised to learn that it is illegal to turn over rocks to check what insects are there! It says that it disturbs the habitat.
A few years ago a man was given a citation for attacking a bear that was attempting to get a fawn for dinner! Duh!
Maybe the government agencies would want to stock Tyrannasaurus rex back into wilderness areas?