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View Full Version : 4wt ok in Cherokee trophy section?


Scott Spencer
03-15-2010, 06:59 PM
I posted this on another forum and have 20 views with no replies (I guess no one has an opinion to express over there) Anyone here have some advice or thoughts?

My wife and I will be going to Cherokee for a few days in May and our resources are limited in that she has a 4 wt and I have both a 5wt and 7 wt.

Presuming she sticks with her 4 wt.... What tippet size should we go with? I was thinking a 4x floro but I've never fished those waters. She is using a 5 ft uni-thread furled leader but we can switch to a floro leader if we need to. Is the 4wt asking for too much from her and should I just give her my 5 wt and me fish the 7wt?

Thanks!

Tarheelflyfishing
03-15-2010, 08:33 PM
A 5wt-6wt is perfect. There are some huge fish in the Oconoluftee River C&R section, so a stouter rod is better. They can be pretty picky, but if you stay consistent you'll hook up. Palomino trout (albino rainbows) are found here which is just an added bonus to an excellent fishery.

Scott Spencer
03-15-2010, 09:19 PM
Thank you, Tyler. I presume you are saying that the 4wt is a little too light for the C&R section with those big boys cruising around. :) Guess I'll let her use my 5 wt and I'll use the 7 wt

Waterborn
03-16-2010, 08:28 AM
I think if you used the 4wt and her the 5 , will work out just fine. I used a 4wt and 5x with no problems - you might tie into a hot fish here and there, and as stockers go, may give you some fight (mostly momentum from thier porcine builds)- but nothing a 4wt coudln't handle. 'Course I only make it over the mountain once a year in the wintertime, they may put in bigger fish than the 5+lbers we were yanking on...

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j150/Waterbornjournal/VariousandSpringFling2010005.jpg
- stole the pic from my buddy Flick, man I have to get a waterproof camera!

gmreeves
03-16-2010, 08:52 AM
I think a 4wt is fine. If she is concerned about it, you can trade with her. You have to remember that the rod weight is really what is able to throw the line which will throw the fly and not the size fish you are able to catch. To exagerate the point, you can point the rod directly at the fish and fight him from the reel. Of course then you lose any tippet protection from the flex of the rod. Since switching over to bamboo, I have learned to fight the fish with the butt section of the rod and not with the tip, and it is amazing how much control you have over the fish and how quickly you can tire them. Fish the 4wt and use your normal tippet for the size of the fly and enjoy yourself.

Carolina Boy
03-16-2010, 01:22 PM
I use a 4 weight rod with a reel rigged with 5 weight over there, I use 6X fluro if i am going small using small myphs or SJ's but I will tie on bid streamers and fish heavier fluro tippet material, gmreeves is on the $ about using the rod to work fish. If you have ever seen the rod-to-water bottle- over the chair, trick (thank you Mr. Kent Edmonds) it really showns you where your power in the rod is. Put em on the reel and work those fatty's :biggrin:

JohnH0802
03-16-2010, 03:03 PM
Hey Barry,
Can you give some more info on Mr. Edmonds demo, I would like to see that.

John

David Knapp
03-16-2010, 05:13 PM
I've fished a 4 wt there and it works fine. For tippet, 5x or 6x depending on how picky the fish are...make sure you use fluoro...

Scott Spencer
03-16-2010, 06:16 PM
Wow...excellent responses. It clearly shows that folks have different ideas on what to use. I'll take all three rods and just see which seems to work best for her and the fish we might happen to get on.

The 4wt has Airflo Ridgeline Polyfuse XT on it and my 5 wt has Rio Gold. I've had a complete brain fart and just remembered that my son has a 5 wt and it is loaded with SA GPX line. I didn't even think about snagging his rod!! :redface: I can take his rod/reel with us and that will probably be better than taking my 7 wt (my bass rod).

Seriously, thank you to everyone!!!

Carolina Boy
03-17-2010, 12:38 PM
Hey John, OK Mr. Edmonds did this demonstration at a fly shop when i first met him and it I think that it is highly effective in revealing where the power and strengh in the rod is. Take a fly rod 5, 6, 7 whatever weight, rig it with a leader doesn't mateer the length or size, then tie the end of the leader around the top of a regular water bottle that has water in it, next let out some line and get a regular folding chair, or any chair you then put the bottle on the ground behind the chair and run the leader over the back rest so that the bottle is on the ground behind the chair which is facing you, what you are going to do is rais the fly rod so that the bottle of water rises off the ground as the back of the chair is between the rod tip and the bottle acting as a fulcrum ( i think fulcrum is what it is called?) first rais the rod on an angle such that the rod tip is what is raising the bottle, see how much the tip flexes in relation to the amount the bottle is lifted, next point the rod tip at the chair/bottle and rais the rod in a manner that is parallel to the ground allowing the rear section of the rod to take the brunt of the work, you will be surprised how little effort and strain it takes to move the weighted bottle using the rear section of the rod versus the tip, so this translates in to more pressure and power you can utlilze while fighhting a fish. Now this isn't something that is critical when caching small trout or whatever, this is a power thing and shows you what angles you need to take to put the most effective pressure on big fish to get the most out of the rod, Hope i explained that well?

JohnH0802
03-18-2010, 04:39 PM
Thanks Barry, I think that I am going to have to give that a try. This is a topic that I wasn't familiar with at all. On another note, I am thinking about taking my daughter and fishing partner on a last minute trip to Cherokee this weekend. Right now the plan is to tent camp on Big Cove, then hit the straight fork....will fish all day Sat, and Sunday morning at least.

John

Mac
03-22-2010, 12:44 PM
Scott,

Dont mean to make this even more confusing but I was somewhat surprised with the responses myself.

For the Trophy section I have always used a 6wt with 4X and 3X. I guess I am a little rougher. laughting this over with my buddy we were talking about how easy some of those big trout where breaking our lines. Might need to more on my finesse, :biggrin:

I use a 4wt with 6x and 7x in the Park backcountry.

Good Luck

Carlito
03-22-2010, 01:04 PM
Hey John, OK Mr. Edmonds did this demonstration at a fly shop when i first met him and it I think that it is highly effective in revealing where the power and strengh in the rod is. Take a fly rod 5, 6, 7 whatever weight, rig it with a leader doesn't mateer the length or size, then tie the end of the leader around the top of a regular water bottle that has water in it, next let out some line and get a regular folding chair, or any chair you then put the bottle on the ground behind the chair and run the leader over the back rest so that the bottle is on the ground behind the chair which is facing you, what you are going to do is rais the fly rod so that the bottle of water rises off the ground as the back of the chair is between the rod tip and the bottle acting as a fulcrum ( i think fulcrum is what it is called?) first rais the rod on an angle such that the rod tip is what is raising the bottle, see how much the tip flexes in relation to the amount the bottle is lifted, next point the rod tip at the chair/bottle and rais the rod in a manner that is parallel to the ground allowing the rear section of the rod to take the brunt of the work, you will be surprised how little effort and strain it takes to move the weighted bottle using the rear section of the rod versus the tip, so this translates in to more pressure and power you can utlilze while fighhting a fish. Now this isn't something that is critical when caching small trout or whatever, this is a power thing and shows you what angles you need to take to put the most effective pressure on big fish to get the most out of the rod, Hope i explained that well?

Very cool illustration! I'd like to see someone do a demo like that at Troutfest this year.

Just to be devils advocate, you do need to remember to keep your tip up when you're fighting a real bruiser to prevent breaking your tippet material. Probably never a problem in the park, but if you hook into a real lunker you gotta watch out.

gmreeves
03-22-2010, 01:15 PM
A rod that is designed to fight fish as well as cast should be able to protect the tippet without having to have the butt section perpendicular to the fish. The rod only has to soften the explosive bursts and head shakes of the fish before the reel begins to let line off of the spool to further protect the tippet.

Jswitow
04-06-2010, 09:58 PM
Take the larger rods. From what I hear, a lot of those fish have been turning up dead, apparently from too long a fight? You may land them with the 4 wt, but take too long doing it and they die just the same. If fishing nymphs step up to a heavier leader by one size.
Best,
John

old east tn boy
04-06-2010, 11:22 PM
Interesting response about fight time and killing the fish. Saw a guy on the Clinch just standing and holding his rod as a fish tugged away. He never touched the reel to try to get the fish to him for a long time. As I continued to watch, the fish finally gave it up and surfaced and the guy eased him into his net. He released the fish but I couldn't tell if it survived or not. I usually let them make a run or two before getting them to the surface and netting them as quickly as possibly. Have only had one to go belly up on me so far. So, the question is, how long is too long to play a fish? Obviously, play it too hard and fast and run the risk of it breaking off. Play it too long and it may die. I use a 5 weight on the Clinch and a 3 weight in the park down low and a 2 weight up higher. Usually use 6X tippet on all and losing more to break-off on the Clinch.

Rocketroy
04-07-2010, 06:48 AM
Since the length of the fight,is what kills trout,I have adopted and demonstrate to others,what will land/release the bruisers safely to live another day.......and yes I fish a 4 wt,and fish weekly on private Soque and Cherokee trophy waters! You will quick-release a large trout occasionally,by this technique, but after all,such waters are catch and release anyway! After the usually first two/three runs,and sulks/head shakes, I find that ,when the surface is broken by the fish,and you have him in slow water,where you have urged him, that very quick and aggressive line stripping,and constant rod bend will allow you to "SKID', the fish into your net,by keeping the head up, and not allowing the fish to leverage his tail movement! This works like a charm,to land within minutes strong fish,that others on the reel spend far too much energy in the "Fight!" Such quotes as ' "I fought him for 20 min.s down thru two pools and got this picture," may just lead to another unknown trout kill, unfortunately! Works for me,and can for you too! Regards, Rocketroy

gmreeves
04-07-2010, 09:49 AM
A lot of stocked fish die because they grew up in a hatchery that are plagued with sickness and are dropped into a wild environment. There have been studies done on a lot of streams where the stocked fish main mortality cause are natural and not fishing related. While I agree that a fish needs to be fought as quickly as possible so it can have a safe release, I don't beleive a larger rod is the answer. I think a bigger tippet is the main way and proper use of leverage with the rod regardless of "weight."

pineman19
04-09-2010, 09:21 AM
Good informational thread on fighting larger fish. I used to always hold a rod high, thought that was the best way to leverage a fish. I've started using the sideways method to steer larger fish into shallower water and get them on top where I can slide them into the net. It works good with a 4 weight Imperial I have and I agree that the size of tippet makes a big difference when fighting bigger fish.


Neal