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Rodonthefly
03-26-2010, 01:27 PM
How many different types of midges do you fish. I saw you said tie with V rib . do you fish zibras aswell? And if your willing to offer to share whats in your box what sizes do you fish ie. 18-22 and what colors?

The reason I ask is I think I'm getting to carried away with my midges tying things differently, don't know if its really nessary.

Thanks and others feel free to answer as well.

Thanks

Rodney

No Hackle
03-26-2010, 02:51 PM
I have one pattern that I make in 3 different colors, and these are in order that I use first to last olive,black and brown. All tied from 16- 24. Yes I have red, cream etc. as well as paterns as small as 32( just to see if I can) But day in and day out I'll start with an olive 18 and probaly wont change all day until it tears up,which is good or I loose it to a fish.I hope I didnt take up someone elses space but this game isnt as hard as it sounds. Keep it simple and show that fish your fly as many times as you can, He'll take.
Lynn

Rodonthefly
03-26-2010, 03:09 PM
Do you use beads? if so what is your fav color

No Hackle
03-26-2010, 03:49 PM
Black5/64 tungsten and smaller

waterwolf
03-26-2010, 11:07 PM
My box is so simple it is laughable. I really carry 2 different patterns to the Clinch. I carry PT's, all with beads of different colors, and in 2 sizes 16's and 18's. There is a small window when 16's work well, and that corresponds with sulfurs. Other then that time period, 18's are the rule.

On the midges, very simple, I carry one. A dark olive v-rib midge with a black bead tied on an 18 TMC 2488. Those who used to buy them at the Creel when I worked there, might remember them. I tied them for Scott, to make a little gas money to get to the river. The pattern originated from Scott I believe, and it was just a simpler way to tie an effective fly invented by Ron Whaley, eons ago.

I firmly believe I or anyone else can carry those flies any day of the year to the Clinch and out fish any other pattern which someone might be using. Dead of winter, through the heat of summer.

All the other patterns can be left at the house, sure you can catch fish on them, but why fight with the madness when it is totally unnecessary?

ChemEAngler
03-27-2010, 09:22 AM
My box is so simple it is laughable. I really carry 2 different patterns to the Clinch. I carry PT's, all with beads of different colors, and in 2 sizes 16's and 18's. There is a small window when 16's work well, and that corresponds with sulfurs. Other then that time period, 18's are the rule.

On the midges, very simple, I carry one. A dark olive v-rib midge with a black bead tied on an 18 TMC 2488. Those who used to buy them at the Creel when I worked there, might remember them. I tied them for Scott, to make a little gas money to get to the river. The pattern originated from Scott I believe, and it was just a simpler way to tie an effective fly invented by Ron Whaley, eons ago.

I firmly believe I or anyone else can carry those flies any day of the year to the Clinch and out fish any other pattern which someone might be using. Dead of winter, through the heat of summer.

All the other patterns can be left at the house, sure you can catch fish on them, but why fight with the madness when it is totally unnecessary?

Wolf,

My Clinch box is very similar to yours, just a couple differences:
BHPT (16 - 18 ) all with a black bead
Zebra midges (18 - 22) in red & black
Olive Stretch Tubing Midge (no name) (18 - 22)
Brassies (18 - 20)
Olive/Black woolly buggers (6 - 10) tied using TMC 777SP and tungsten conehead

That is it for the Clinch, and those flies will catch fish year round. I have tried making it more confusing over the years by making various patterns that mimic the same thing, but have learned that those basic patterns work great.

psnapp
03-27-2010, 02:45 PM
WW - I didn't realize you sold your patterns at The Creel. I used to be in there at least once a week before Scott called it quits. Did a lot of business there, and Scott always did me right. We've probably met at the TC. Maybe we'll cross paths on the Clinch sometime.

Phil

Rodonthefly
03-28-2010, 11:14 AM
Jim,

I made it a point to only fish those two flys yesterday, to see how many I could catch. I started out fishing below the weir on the shoals. And was killing them. Fishing down river as you stated, them some A holes in two canoes floated right in to my pool and got out and started fishing. I got pissed left and went above the weir and fished managed a few there befor heaing home.

Those two paterns seemed to work well. With those two patterns, are 18s the smallest you go? Seems to me the midges are smaller then that.

waterwolf
03-28-2010, 10:44 PM
Jim,

I made it a point to only fish those two flys yesterday, to see how many I could catch. I started out fishing below the weir on the shoals. And was killing them. Fishing down river as you stated, them some A holes in two canoes floated right in to my pool and got out and started fishing. I got pissed left and went above the weir and fished managed a few there befor heaing home.

Those two paterns seemed to work well. With those two patterns, are 18s the smallest you go? Seems to me the midges are smaller then that.

Midges go down to dust size, but there is NEVER any reason to fish anything smaller then an 18. NEVER! The juice isn't worth the squeeze, again. Small hooks won't hardly hold in a fishes mouth, and a little larger fly draws more attention.

Waterborn
03-29-2010, 07:28 AM
I wish someone would explain that to the fish...I can't seem to keep them off my #22...bizarre...

waterwolf
03-29-2010, 08:45 AM
I wish someone would explain that to the fish...I can't seem to keep them off my #22...bizarre...

Good for you, but I bet you couldn't keep the same fish off of a size 18 as well. Of course, what you consider "can't keep them off", and what others might consider "can't keep them off", may be entirely different.

Sure they will hit smaller flies, but why fight with them if you don't have to? From my own personal experiences, landing fish larger then 16" on tiny little flies is an iffy proposition, and I prefer to have as large a piece of steel as possible connecting me to the fish. Not to mention that there is NO reason, to ever go smaller on the Clinch. I do not EVER recall a single time when I left the river wishing I had something smaller to fish then an 18, not one time.

Rodonthefly
03-29-2010, 11:59 AM
I can't argue with that point Jim. The more hook the better. "You said what you concider you can't keep them off" in that last post.

How many fish do you normally catch in a trip? To me I have been averaging 15-20 fish per trip this year.

Waterborn
03-29-2010, 12:09 PM
"can't keep 'em off my #22's" simply is that more often that not, cast for cast, the #22 zebra for me at least, has proved more action and brought more fish (sizable ones at that) to the net than anything else for me the last few years fishing the Clinch - 'course maybe its just my own observations. From past trials, when fishing a tandem rig - top fly a #18 bhvrib (olive naturally - which had been my go to fly) and the drop a #22 zebra - the fish seemed to favor the smaller fly...maybe the larger stirred them...at any rate, I would end up cutting off the vrib. I agree the vrib is one heck of a fish producer more often that not, (maybe I don't tie them just right), but imho, there's always a reason to expand on the basics. Besides, landing any fish over 16" on anything is an iffy proposition in any situation - tippet, knots, subsurface terrain alone cause more troubles than hook size I think.
Aside from all of this being fairly trivial at best - 'cause in the end, we all will fish and do what we want to do, and for the most part - it all works.... the beauty being the privilege of inquiring and/or sharing of ones unique experiences is what this board is great for, your insights are a great asset and valued... it just seems though, the overly dogmatic absolutes are somewhat self defeating, heck...why even deal with all this fly fishing stuff. Compared to the holding power of a wide gap hook tipped with bait, or an assortment of treble grabbing hardware all tethered to cable - minute hooks, wispy tippets, and insects all seem like a pointless endeavor to begin with to some... but we choose to do it "our" way.

waterwolf
03-29-2010, 01:39 PM
I choose to fly fish because it is far more effective then bait or plugs, period. It is not some aesthetic thing as to why I fly fish, it is because it is the most effective way to catch trout. I certainly don't fly fish for crappie, I use minnows or jigs as it is the most effective. Same with the flies I use and how I use them, it is all about maximum tonnage to hand.

With droppers 90% of the strikes will come on the point fly, which may be the reason for your success on the #22. I am not saying a 22 won't work, just saying that IMO it is not necessary to fish dust to catch fish in the Clinch.

Rodney- avg day on the Clinch, over 4 hours I usually will catch 30-40 fish, some days a few less, and some days alot more. But generally, it is non-stop from start to finish. Having fished for eons on the stretches I frequent, I know exactly (like others) where to stand, where my fly needs to hit the water, and most of the time where the strike will come from. It is fairly predictable, and not nearly as fun now as it was 10 years ago. Hence the reason I spend more time smallmouth fishing anymore.

Rodonthefly
03-29-2010, 02:10 PM
"Having fished for eons on the stretches I frequent, I know exactly (like others) where to stand, where my fly needs to hit the water, and most of the time where the strike will come from. It is fairly predictable, and not nearly as fun now as it was 10 years ago. Hence the reason I spend more time smallmouth fishing anymore."


Good then e-mail me at clinchriverflyfishing@gmail.com and let me know where those runs are and the rocks I need to stand on. Or **** I'll buy a dozen of those **** midges and give ya gas money if you'll meet me at the river and show me. :biggrin:

waterwolf
03-29-2010, 03:54 PM
"Having fished for eons on the stretches I frequent, I know exactly (like others) where to stand, where my fly needs to hit the water, and most of the time where the strike will come from. It is fairly predictable, and not nearly as fun now as it was 10 years ago. Hence the reason I spend more time smallmouth fishing anymore."


Good then e-mail me at clinchriverflyfishing@gmail.com and let me know where those runs are and the rocks I need to stand on. Or **** I'll buy a dozen of those **** midges and give ya gas money if you'll meet me at the river and show me. :biggrin:
wait for me on the rock wing wall closest to Lewellen Island, I should be there sometime in the next 10 days :biggrin:

Rodonthefly
03-29-2010, 04:00 PM
Ok will do, you going to make me save my ice cream money, to buy a fly from you too?

Waterborn
03-29-2010, 07:45 PM
Not sure I subscribe to the theory of point fly pole position, but regardless - hate to see some of the thrill is gone for you, but I agree - one can pattern Clinch fish fairly easy...and after a couple of hours of not moving ten feet and couple dozen of fish in hand, I start rooting around in the box to see what else they might eat just for grins...
This year I'd like to try and concentrate some on the rough fish - shad, gar,redhorse,carp,drum, and smallmouth buffalo though I can't say I'll tire of the fins of the Clinch though - as we all fish for different reasons (and rightly so), for me is not about maximum tonnage...

MadisonBoats
03-29-2010, 08:48 PM
waterwolf
I choose to fly fish because it is far more effective then bait or plugs, period. It is not some aesthetic thing as to why I fly fish, it is because it is the most effective way to catch trout. I certainly don't fly fish for crappie, I use minnows or jigs as it is the most effective. Same with the flies I use and how I use them, it is all about maximum tonnage to hand.
-----
Interesting; I can easily catch 75-100 fish a day on the clinch with a spinning rod, but, that bores the heck out of me. I can and have taken newbies on the Clinch with a spinning rod and the goal is to catch 30-50 fish a day. I have rarely missed that goal. I have a significantly more difficult time catching trout on a fly; but, that is why I do it...

Also, I fish the lakes like I do the rivers; with a fly rod and I actually do extremely better on the lakes in numbers. It seems that midges grow in lakes too...

waterwolf
03-30-2010, 09:45 AM
Not sure I subscribe to the theory of point fly pole position, but regardless - hate to see some of the thrill is gone for you, but I agree - one can pattern Clinch fish fairly easy...and after a couple of hours of not moving ten feet and couple dozen of fish in hand, I start rooting around in the box to see what else they might eat just for grins...
This year I'd like to try and concentrate some on the rough fish - shad, gar,redhorse,carp,drum, and smallmouth buffalo though I can't say I'll tire of the fins of the Clinch though - as we all fish for different reasons (and rightly so), for me is not about maximum tonnage...

Ask the question of the point fly to others on this forum who fish dropper rigs, I rarely if ever fish 2 flies, but when I have I have noticed that the point fly gets alot more attention then the dropper. But that is really not important.

I understand the desire to see what you can catch them on, but don't play anymore. Kind of sad really, pretty happy to just fish one fly and catch them on that.

Good luck with the buffalo, they are vegetarians and rarely eat flies. You can snag them easily, but I have seen only a handful which actually ate a fly, and then I feel it was just blind luck. The only time I have caught or seen redhorse caught is mid-April on the little P when they are spawing. That is pretty fun if you can catch it right.

I still fish trout quite a bit, but nothing like I used to, I have grown weary with all the people and the lack of ettiquette which I see on the river many days. I like solitude, and after the warmwater rivers get right that is where I spend 99% of my time. I think growing up on the Clinch and spending the better part of 20 years fishing it 5 days a week, just wore me down on the whole trout thing. Add to that 8 years of guiding for trout, and it is just being over exposed to them as well.

waterwolf
I choose to fly fish because it is far more effective then bait or plugs, period. It is not some aesthetic thing as to why I fly fish, it is because it is the most effective way to catch trout. I certainly don't fly fish for crappie, I use minnows or jigs as it is the most effective. Same with the flies I use and how I use them, it is all about maximum tonnage to hand.
-----
Interesting; I can easily catch 75-100 fish a day on the clinch with a spinning rod, but, that bores the heck out of me. I can and have taken newbies on the Clinch with a spinning rod and the goal is to catch 30-50 fish a day. I have rarely missed that goal. I have a significantly more difficult time catching trout on a fly; but, that is why I do it...

Also, I fish the lakes like I do the rivers; with a fly rod and I actually do extremely better on the lakes in numbers. It seems that midges grow in lakes too...
I would like to sit and watch you catch 100 on spinning tackle. I have never seen fish caught in those numbers in one day on the Clinch on any tackle, especially conventional tackle, and would love to see it happen first hand.

Many moons ago myself, and several others fished above the weir the day after the water turned off for the first time in several months. The fish were absolutely stacked up there, and I guess 6 of us lined up to put on a show right at the canoe launch. One of our other buddies had broken his leg so he stayed on the bank and entertained himself by keeping a tally on how many fish we brought to hand over 6 hours. I think the high mark was 60+ and the avg was in the mid 40's. As I remember it was dang near non-stop a fish on every cast, and many fish b/w 16"-20". I know there are several other forum members here who stood along side me and the crew that day, who could atest to the mauling we dished out. I think the bait boys landed a handful at best on that particular day. Point is, that 100 fish in a day, is a lot of fish, and something I have yet to ever witness. Not saying it isn't possible, just saying it is quite a feat.

I can't handle the lakes, too many people for my tastes. But do agree, that fly fishing on the lakes can be very effective, especially for bigger bass.

kentuckytroutbum
03-30-2010, 09:45 AM
MadisonBoats-
I agree with you in that it is the "challenge" of fly fishing that makes it exciting for me. There is so much involved, such as matching the hatch, or finding the fly that the fish want that day, the cast, the presentation, and fighting the fish to a point of catch & release.

I believe that JFK said, when announcing that we were going to the moon,...."We are doing this not because it is easy, but because it is hard." That sums up my feeling about fly fishing, it is more difficult to do and be successful. ;)

Bill

Varmitcounty
03-30-2010, 10:02 AM
If I am on the Clinch. I will fish BHPT's and midges, both #18 or #20. I have found two flies that honestly kill on certain parts of the river. One fly in particular is so simple that it really is silly. First is my "Church Fly". On any given day in the spring I will go through 4 or 5 of them because they get so torn up by the fish. The other is called a redrum and as Waterborn will attest...it produces in great numbers.

In the end. Does it really matter what you use as long as you have fun?

~marc~

highpockets
03-30-2010, 10:51 AM
Hey Waterwolf: How about a build-along for the Midge pattern??

ChemEAngler
03-30-2010, 12:16 PM
My box is so simple it is laughable. I really carry 2 different patterns to the Clinch. I carry PT's, all with beads of different colors, and in 2 sizes 16's and 18's. There is a small window when 16's work well, and that corresponds with sulfurs. Other then that time period, 18's are the rule.

Wolf,
I remember fishing with John Emert once over on the Clinch, and he said the only fly he ever used was that silly looking BH hairball pattern in #16. But he absolutely killed them using it. Do you remember that fly of his? I was probably tying 8 or 10 dozen of those things a week for the shop. It didn't look like anything and I could tie a dozen in probably 5 minutes. I haven't used it on the Clinch lately, but can definitely vouch for its effectiveness on the Holston and Hiwassee.

I think the most important thing on the Clinch is presentation. Somebody using a 9' 4X leader typically is not going to catch as many fish as somebody using a 12' 6X fluoro leader when drifting nymphs. But if the person using the 12' 6X fluoro rig doesn't know how to properly present the fly and get a dead drift, then I will put my money of the other guy. I think a properly presented fly that may be a size too large is much better than a perfect imitation that doesn't look natural.

MadisonBoats
03-30-2010, 03:32 PM
I apologize for 'hijacking' this thread and jumping off topic. I did not mean any insult in my post and to clarify my experience with spin reel fishing on the Clinch; during Spring and Summer my boat(crew 2-3) have consistently caught 75-100 fish in a 6-8 hour day that usually consisted of a drift of the river. I grew up about a mile above Massengill Bridge and my brother and I would ride our bikes down to the river and fish spinning reels almost every day of the Summer. We would always catch around 50 fish each when we were not lure hunting on the banks.:smile:

That aspect of fishing bored me over the years and I got out of fishing for some time. However; I am so glad to have discovered fly fishing. I enjoy all the technical aspects of the sport; not just catching fish.

Anyone on this board is welcome to fish with me or drift the Clinch. I may actually take my nephew out this Friday for his spring break and he will be using a spin set up.

Rodonthefly
03-30-2010, 03:41 PM
[Anyone on this board is welcome to fish with me or drift the Clinch. I may actually take my nephew out this Friday for his spring break and he will be using a spin set up.[/QUOTE]

What time and where are you going to flaot from/to on friday? I'm going to float the hyde down Friday, and wouldn't mind the company beside me on the way down.

MadisonBoats
03-30-2010, 04:29 PM
[Anyone on this board is welcome to fish with me or drift the Clinch. I may actually take my nephew out this Friday for his spring break and he will be using a spin set up.

What time and where are you going to flaot from/to on friday? I'm going to float the hyde down Friday, and wouldn't mind the company beside me on the way down.[/QUOTE]

Not sure Rod. It will depend on my nephew's schedule. He is bringing a friend along too. I will try and update you when I find out.

Waterborn
03-30-2010, 07:20 PM
Redrum...Redrum... Redrum...okay insert your own The Shining moment here... that fly can save a slow day, works great on the Clinch and is a killer on the Caney...gee Marc, who took that cool pic of your avatar ;)

Wolf, I've often heard about the burnout - some of my guide buddies and those in the industry talk about there sometimes being too much of a good thing... at any rate, I hear you about the solitude - I find myself in the non tourist areas of the park more and more for that very reason. I'd don't mind a like minded buddy anytime, but more often that not - I'm solo for all the same reasons.
I've only the one buffalo, now whether it was a million to one shot or not (or I just happen to snag him square in the lips)- the fly was in the corner of his mouth - sometimes it better be lucky than good I suppose, but I've gotta give it another go simply to satisfy my curiousity. Since I'm only a few minutes from the lower little pig, I'll have plenty of opportunities to look stupid trying some grass flies - guess will see. I've heard the same about the redhorse, I'm gonna have to hit up Gary on them... One of the reasons I love this area though - more water and species to chase than one can shake a rod at...

Travis - looks as though I've got to go house hunting this Friday so the great Fotophishing adventure will have to be postpone yet again - sorry about that...I'll be in St. Augustine all next week (hoping to score something red-ish), but that week after lets see about that Friday...

waterwolf
03-30-2010, 11:40 PM
Wolf,
I remember fishing with John Emert once over on the Clinch, and he said the only fly he ever used was that silly looking BH hairball pattern in #16. But he absolutely killed them using it. Do you remember that fly of his? I was probably tying 8 or 10 dozen of those things a week for the shop. It didn't look like anything and I could tie a dozen in probably 5 minutes. I haven't used it on the Clinch lately, but can definitely vouch for its effectiveness on the Holston and Hiwassee.

I think the most important thing on the Clinch is presentation. Somebody using a 9' 4X leader typically is not going to catch as many fish as somebody using a 12' 6X fluoro leader when drifting nymphs. But if the person using the 12' 6X fluoro rig doesn't know how to properly present the fly and get a dead drift, then I will put my money of the other guy. I think a properly presented fly that may be a size too large is much better than a perfect imitation that doesn't look natural.


Pine Squirrel was the name of that fly I do believe, it was a lint ball :biggrin:

I absolutely agree on the latter, I usually fish 5x flouro, rarely do I have to drop to 6x, it is all about where and how things are done like you said.