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stormin' norman
04-04-2010, 11:15 AM
for about four years, as a visitor to the area, i fished little river inside the park. i'm an old guy and pretty stubborn. i caught fish, not many, but i did learn the river. i heard of guides who took clients fishing and caught 30 or 40 fish. i have a new crisp one hundred dollar bill i will give if ANYONE who can prove they catch that many fish inside the park, no exceptions.
i, on the other hand, have discovered the clinch river tailwater below the norris dam. i've never gone fishing there that i haven't caught at least ten fish in a two or three hour period. i have caught five fish that have been from 20 inches to 24 inches. and i, unlike the guides in the park, have proof. that is all.........

pineman19
04-04-2010, 11:26 AM
I don't understand why you're comparing fishing in the Park to fishing the Clinch and then throwing guides into the equation. Sounds like you have an axe to grind with a guide (s). Why don't you take it up with them personally instead sharing your crap on the forum?

Neal

gmreeves
04-04-2010, 12:40 PM
30 to 40 fish days in the park aren't all that uncommon if things are right. Some times, it is pretty easy to pull a fish out of every riffle, run, pocket, and pool. Some days it's not. Tailwater fishing is the same way. I'm not really sure why you are trying to start something here.

PeteCz
04-04-2010, 07:10 PM
Norman, in mid to late May, take a handful of #16 yellow PAs up to the Chimneys Picnic Area on the WPLP. and fish your way up to the confluence of Road Prong and Walker Camp. It would take about 6-8 hours depending on how quickly you fish. You should easily catch 5-8 fish per hour (or more) if the water is right (around 225CFS and about 55-58 degrees).

If you stick to fishing along the road on the Little River, I agree it would be very hard to catch 30 fish. The fish along the roads in the park get a lot more pressure and are much harder to catch. But if you travel a few miles above Elkmont, you could probably catch 30+ when the conditions are right there, as well.

You won't do it every day, but its more than possible. You also can't stand in the same spot for very long. If you've cast into a pool more than half a dozen times, you're wasting your time. Your first few casts are the only ones that will catch any fish on a small stream. Its best to keep moving. Small stream fishing is very different than tailwaters.

Not better, just different...

2weightfavorite
04-04-2010, 07:10 PM
As a guide in the smokies I have to aagree witgh the above post. 40 fish days are not that uncommon in the park, especially in the higher altitudes if you count all the 3 and 4 inch fish you bring to hand. Getting a beginner to catch that many however is a different story... I would also add that in my own opinion, the mountains produce fish more consistantly than the tailwaters. The fishing is less technical and the fish are a little more oportunistic...in my own opinion..

David Knapp
04-04-2010, 08:15 PM
For me, good days in the park are when I'm catching at least 9-10 fish an hour. On slow days I might only catch 5 or 10 in 3-4 hours depending on where I'm fishing... Go ahead and put the $100 in an envelope...I'll have picture proof in a couple of weeks for you...:rolleyes: Oh, and do I get $100 every time I catch that many fish? Maybe I can finally afford to go fishing all the time...:biggrin:

pineman19
04-04-2010, 08:21 PM
Norman, in mid to late May, take a handful of #16 yellow PAs up to the Chimneys Picnic Area on the WPLP. and fish your way up to the confluence of Road Prong and Walker Camp. It would take about 6-8 hours depending on how quickly you fish. You should easily catch 5-8 fish per hour (or more) if the water is right (around 225CFS and about 55-58 degrees).

If you stick to fishing along the road on the Little River, I agree it would be very hard to catch 30 fish. The fish along the roads in the park get a lot more pressure and are much harder to catch. But if you travel a few miles above Elkmont, you could probably catch 30+ when the conditions are right there, as well.

You won't do it every day, but its more than possible. You also can't stand in the same spot for very long. If you've cast into a pool more than half a dozen times, you're wasting your time. Your first few casts are the only ones that will catch any fish on a small stream. Its best to keep moving. Small stream fishing is very different than tailwaters.

Not better, just different...

Pete,

Thanks for giving away my secret stream. I guess I should used this method 20 yrs ago to get info on fishing the Gorge, LOL.

ChemEAngler
04-04-2010, 10:27 PM
I am still scratching my head over this one. Haven't really figured out if this is a legitimate post or somebody trolling around.....

By the way, for those of you reading the original post, there are no 20 to 24" fish in the Clinch. Need to go to other tailwaters for that kind of quality fish, may I recommend the South Holston or Watauga. ;)

Everybody has good and bad days in both the park and tailwaters. And just as soon as you think you have one of them figured out, it will jump up and bring a skunking your way. Just enjoy the fishing opportunities we are blessed with in East TN and take care of our resources. We are all in this together regardless of where we fish, how we fish, and whether we choose to make it our living.

Grannyknot
04-05-2010, 08:30 AM
.......... take a handful of #16 yellow PAs up to the Chimneys Picnic Area on the WPLP. and fish your way up to the confluence of Road Prong and Walker Camp....

Better yet....take that $100, invest in midges, and stay on the clinch...forever.

Just sayin....seems like thats what you're into.

http://images.shipstore.com/ss/images/cwr/cwr25413.gif

Carlito
04-05-2010, 10:03 AM
The biggest hindrance I ever have to a 30 fish day tends to be my own mistakes... granted, you can't expect to catch a whole mess of trout just any day, but there are plenty of days in the summer when it can easily be done. Seems like when the fish are really biting, my dropper gets tangled with my dry, or I'll get hung up in the rhodo, or my tippet will get frayed, or some other nonsense. That's why it's tough for a beginner to catch 20, 30, or 50 fish in a day. It's all about getting that line in the water.

Knothead
04-05-2010, 10:03 AM
May, 2006, if I remember correctly, I got into a hatch just outside the park behind what is now the Townsend KOA. We camped there all week. I didn't keep count but I would say that catching 40 fish in one day would be the norm. I fished one night until it was so dark that I had to "feel" my way out of the river with my staff, go to the shower and run warm water over my legs to get the feeling back.
I have read of 100 fish days on the Horseshoe on Abrams Creek.

buzzmcmanus
04-05-2010, 01:19 PM
i have a new crisp one hundred dollar bill i will give if ANYONE who can prove they catch that many fish inside the park, no exceptions.

How would you like your proof? That $100 bill has my name all over it.

Luke Warmwater
04-05-2010, 08:19 PM
There are fish in the park?

txbrown
04-06-2010, 10:56 AM
I like both types of water and have had many 30+ fish days on each. I do not consider myself an expert. I constantly learn from others. I have fished last 4 days now in the Park and had 30+ days for 3 of them. I would have had one yesterday but I missed almost as many as I hooked, and I wrestled with trees and I slipped and fell, if you fish the Park you understand. It's different fishing in the Park, you have to keep moving and ducking trees and line control, etc. Many times 15 fish is a good number but the exercise, the beauty, etc make it a great day anyway. In tailwaters I have caught 30+ fish and not moved 30 yards. There are times it is more enjoyable. In my humble opinion the secret to enjoying fishing is to take what the situation gives you, adapt to it, maybe even expand your horizons, and enjoy the beauty of God's creation.

dryflyonly
04-06-2010, 04:47 PM
Norman,

Last May I fished the park, we hiked for 2 hrs up to Brookie water. I Fished for 6 hrs with a guide and we counted 70 fish caught. Actually Fished between 10:00 AM and 4:00 PM. Only fished with a dry fly. It can be done, but you need to get to fish that do see the pressure that you get along the road. And you need to put they fly in the right place.

oldhickory
04-06-2010, 11:53 PM
There are fish in the park?

:biggrin:

I don't there are any.

Hoosier
04-07-2010, 05:02 PM
Sounds like somene is looking for a guide fo $100.

waterwolf
04-08-2010, 07:20 AM
for about four years, as a visitor to the area, i fished little river inside the park. i'm an old guy and pretty stubborn. i caught fish, not many, but i did learn the river. i heard of guides who took clients fishing and caught 30 or 40 fish. i have a new crisp one hundred dollar bill i will give if ANYONE who can prove they catch that many fish inside the park, no exceptions.
i, on the other hand, have discovered the clinch river tailwater below the norris dam. i've never gone fishing there that i haven't caught at least ten fish in a two or three hour period. i have caught five fish that have been from 20 inches to 24 inches. and i, unlike the guides in the park, have proof. that is all.........


Well, catching 30-40 fish in the park is relatively easy IMO, especially from now until late summer. It isn't exactly rocket science. Maybe you should reflect on your tactics.

AS for the Clinch, 10 fish in a 2-3 hour period is pretty slow fishing on the Clinch, as a general rule.

I would love to see pics of these 20"-24" CLinch fish, sure they are there but having spent an inordinate amount of time on the river, they are not nearly as common the last 10 years as they used to be and most I know, who include some of the very best fisherman on the river, catch maybe 1 or 2 a year in that size range per year.

Don't know what the problem is, maybe you just hate the park, which is fine and I understand. But lashing out at guides is no way to get your point across. Guides spend more days on these rivers then most, and know more then you obviously think they do about having success on a consistent basis.

MadisonBoats
04-08-2010, 10:23 AM
I would love to see pics of these 20"-24" CLinch fish, sure they are there but having spent an inordinate amount of time on the river, they are not nearly as common the last 10 years as they used to be and most I know, who include some of the very best fisherman on the river, catch maybe 1 or 2 a year in that size range per year.



Agreed Waterwolf! My largest was a 22" fish last year and one 19". I think the big ones are just smart and hide when they see me coming.:biggrin:

ChemEAngler
04-08-2010, 12:51 PM
I would love to see pics of these 20"-24" CLinch fish, sure they are there but having spent an inordinate amount of time on the river, they are not nearly as common the last 10 years as they used to be and most I know, who include some of the very best fisherman on the river, catch maybe 1 or 2 a year in that size range per year.


Wolf,
I think part of the problem is that some people get googly eyes when they see a sizeable fish. I have seen people with a fish they swear is 20 inches, when I guarantee you that if you put a tape to it you may get 17 inches. A 20" fish is much larger than most people realize. Especially if they are not accustomed to catching large fish on a regular basis. It is much more likely for somebody who typically catches 10 - 12" stockers to overestimate the size of a 17"+ fish. I have only ever caught one over 20" on the Clinch, and that has been nearly two years ago. The fish below was taped just prior to release, and I would have estimated it at 20"+. However, it was 19" on the nose, and for the record it was taken two years ago as well.
http://knxtravis80.zenfolio.com/img/v5/p933405073-3.jpg

Do you still fish alone primarily? If you ever get the urge for some company, give me a shout.

Not saying that he didn't catch numerous 20 - 24" fish recently, but if so that is quite an accomplishment.

David Knapp
04-08-2010, 01:03 PM
Travis, that fish is an easy 24"...you just need to hold it properly....:rolleyes: :biggrin:

waterwolf
04-08-2010, 01:12 PM
Wolf,
I think part of the problem is that some people get googly eyes when they see a sizeable fish. I have seen people with a fish they swear is 20 inches, when I guarantee you that if you put a tape to it you may get 17 inches. A 20" fish is much larger than most people realize. Especially if they are not accustomed to catching large fish on a regular basis. It is much more likely for somebody who typically catches 10 - 12" stockers to overestimate the size of a 17"+ fish. I have only ever caught one over 20" on the Clinch, and that has been nearly two years ago. The fish below was taped just prior to release, and I would have estimated it at 20"+. However, it was 19" on the nose, and for the record it was taken two years ago as well.
http://knxtravis80.zenfolio.com/img/v5/p933405073-3.jpg

Do you still fish alone primarily? If you ever get the urge for some company, give me a shout.

Not saying that he didn't catch numerous 20 - 24" fish recently, but if so that is quite an accomplishment.

Absolutely agree with what you say above. People way over estimate the size of their fish, an 18" fish is much bigger then most folks think, and most call them 20"+ many times. There are several guides around who are horrible at over stating fish on their websites, and it is absurd how obvious the exaggerations are.

Over my life on the Clinch, almost 25 years now. I have landed only 4 fish over 24", probably 12 b/w 22"-24", and a ton b/w 18"-21", but not usually more then one or two a year fall into the 20"+ category, and no one I know has any better success with that size either.

I do catch scores of 18" fish, usually a couple each trip if averaged out over a season.

I do fish alone alot, but can be prodded into fishing with others.;)

pineman19
04-08-2010, 02:20 PM
Waterwolf,

Can I fish with you if I decide to fish only soft hackles or size 26 midges:rolleyes:

Neal

waterwolf
04-08-2010, 02:41 PM
Waterwolf,

Can I fish with you if I decide to fish only soft hackles or size 26 midges:rolleyes:

Neal
Sure, you might not like getting embarassed for several hours until you decide to change tactics.

pineman19
04-08-2010, 02:48 PM
WW,

I would probably get embarrassed no matter what tactics I used. Actually, my best fish this year have been on a size 18 BHPT, size 20 brassie was working around a month ago as well, but I didn't have any luck with it last week.

Neal

waterwolf
04-08-2010, 09:35 PM
Try a 16 BHPT, sulfur nymphs are on the move.

MadisonBoats
04-08-2010, 10:16 PM
Try a 16 BHPT, sulfur nymphs are on the move.

OK, you just ruined the Clinch for the next month.:biggrin: Now everyone is going to be out there. I just wish some people would keep their mouths shut and let the locals fish...Just kidding Jim. Yes, it is about to hit and I am ready for the next couple of weeks. My favorite time fishing the Clinch....I have my Poland Group coming in just for it....

pineman19
04-08-2010, 10:48 PM
WW,

I saw a couple of adults a week ago while fishing below Millers Island. I have fished the Clinch more so since the middle of March than I did in the last 3 years in total. Can be a little frustrating at times, but I have lost interest in the Holston which was my primary tailwater, I like the possibility of catching larger fish, especially browns and bows that have been in the river for a while. BTW, do some rainbows spawn successfully? I caught several a few weeks back that had spawning colors, one squirted some milk while I was releasing it.

Neal

ChemEAngler
04-09-2010, 07:43 AM
Try a 16 BHPT, sulfur nymphs are on the move.

Jim,

I agree they were definitely targeting mayfly nymphs on Wed evening. Not only that but the fish were lining up in typical holding lies in preparation for the sulfur hatch. Guess I will stick to midweek fishing for the next couple months.

Rodonthefly
04-09-2010, 08:27 AM
Yeah mid week fishing is going to be in my line up as well. I fished Tue. And last night fished the pt on the top and midge on the bottom. No takers on the the midge, seen a handfull of sulphers two of which got ate.

But you know I hear all you have to do is pick a run in any stream in the park and you can catch 100 fish a day on a dry fly. ;)

pineman19
04-09-2010, 08:47 AM
I have great success with one of those portable battery chargers in the Park:cool:

fourx
04-10-2010, 04:15 PM
Strangest thing...all the sulphur nymphs have crawled to ABOVE the weir dam.
Ya'll should just fish up there.
In fact yesterday a train derailed upstream from 61 bridge and dumped thousands of gallons of chlordane directly into the river and President Obama said to "stay out it's poisoned!".
So, don't fish down there.

Thanks,
4X

waterwolf
04-12-2010, 08:59 AM
Strangest thing...all the sulphur nymphs have crawled to ABOVE the weir dam.
Ya'll should just fish up there.
In fact yesterday a train derailed upstream from 61 bridge and dumped thousands of gallons of chlordane directly into the river and President Obama said to "stay out it's poisoned!".
So, don't fish down there.

Thanks,
4X
You doing every thing Obama tells you? For me that means to go fish it immediately, before he takes it over.