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BlueRaiderFan
04-18-2010, 05:49 PM
I was trying to stay optomistic, but yeah, it's dead. I won't go back until about a year after the dam is finished.

JoelO
04-19-2010, 10:23 AM
BRF, I'm with you. Looks like that grout seepage as killed off a lot of the vegetation. I went down to Kirby Lane and Bettys Island yesterday afternoon...saw 1 fish rise period.

silvercreek
04-19-2010, 11:37 AM
Why would the grout have such a devastating effect so far down the river? Not sure the mix they are using, but it should be like concrete. If anything a little alkaline. Just guessing, but I think it is host of factors, mostly arising from the extreme period of generation. Anyway it is a shame. Good regs with the new slot limits. Too bad there are no trout to fit into the slots.

ChemEAngler
04-19-2010, 12:35 PM
I still find it hard to believe that they have wiped out that many fish. What water temps are you currently seeing? Maybe the fish have been dispersed throughout the river and the browns haven't been forced upstream by warming temps just yet. Trying to find a way to think optimistically about the situation.

silvercreek
04-19-2010, 12:46 PM
From the river gauge at Stonewall about 14 miles below the dam the highest reading over the last 7 days has been 58 and the lowest was 50 degrees. Wish I could find a gauge closer to the dam, but I cannot. Nonetheless, water temp does not seem to be the problem. Silvercreek

JoelO
04-19-2010, 12:55 PM
I measured it at 52 degrees yesterday afternoon. The gravel around the sandbars at Bettys was chalky white...can't remember if its always been like that but thats what it looked like.

BlueRaiderFan
04-20-2010, 12:12 AM
BRF, I'm with you. Looks like that grout seepage as killed off a lot of the vegetation. I went down to Kirby Lane and Bettys Island yesterday afternoon...saw 1 fish rise period.


Yeah, tough days for guides. Oh well, there is always the Elk and if you want some smallies, the Duck etc. Sad days. That river used to be boiling with trout.

BlueRaiderFan
04-20-2010, 12:27 AM
I think the "bonefish" ought to be patrolling the edges of Center Hill soon. Guess I could give that a shot.

Middle TN Lee
04-20-2010, 03:11 AM
BlueRaider Fan,

Thanks for the update on the Caney. I was gonna head up that way this weekend from the Boro, but you talked me out of it ha. I went a couple times earlier in the year and both were a bust so I'm glad I didn't waste the gas money.

I have been going to the Duck to satisfy the itch and have been doing well there...even caught a few Saugers (a first) my last trip there. I'll def miss the Caney though, but hopefully all will be well in the future.

Thanks,

Lee

BlueRaiderFan
04-20-2010, 07:08 PM
Lee,

No problem. Yeah, I'm going to start hitting the Elk and Duck and the Smokies on occasion. Hopefully the Caney will be back up before the end of the repairs in 2014.

kentuckytroutbum
04-20-2010, 07:20 PM
Why would the grout have such a devastating effect so far down the river? Not sure the mix they are using, but it should be like concrete. If anything a little alkaline. Just guessing, but I think it is host of factors, mostly arising from the extreme period of generation. Anyway it is a shame. Good regs with the new slot limits. Too bad there are no trout to fit into the slots.

Concrete, mortar, grout, and any cementitious products have alkalies, and salts while they are curing, and the Ph can depend how "rich" the proportions of portland cement used at the plant. Concrete, mortar, grout, etc. cure by chemical reaction, not drying out, and release heat in the process. Not good for the trout or humans by the way, with long term exposure.

silvercreek
04-20-2010, 07:52 PM
Still having a hard time believing even the most alkaline mix having such an effect or the fine particles having such an effect considering it is going into a stream which until recently was running at thousands of cfs. Most streams in TN could benefit from some increased alkalinity. Can't argue the fact though that rivers like the Clinch ran heavy generation until recently and they bounced right back whereas the Caney did not. So maybe I'm wrong on this. Regards, Silvercreek

BlueRaiderFan
04-20-2010, 09:54 PM
Interesting discussion. It would take a pHD that has read some research on the subject to say for certain, or at least a look at daily pH levels on the Caney since construction started and I have no idea if they are monitoring it. I have seen a TCLP collection pool by the road. Either way, I will be off to see my doc for some Prozac in the a.m....this bites.

gutshot
04-21-2010, 02:20 PM
Maybe time to go and start fishing the caney again. No crowds, hmmmm. I have seen some big rainbow pictures coming out of the river from the bait guys.

I read that that grass is white up by the dam and people don't want to call the EPA becuase it may delay the fix on the dam? So if this pollution kiiled all the aquatic life in the river, what will the trout feed and grow on in the future? Seems short sighted to me.

Grumpy
04-21-2010, 10:32 PM
The Corps stated in the original release on construction of Wolf Creek & Center Hill that the fisheries could suffer.
They have lived up to that statement!
Now, if we hadn't received all that rain the past few years, would there have been a different outcome?

Grumpy

gutshot
04-22-2010, 10:14 AM
Yes they have lived up to that statement, but when has the hand of the corps done much else?

I do appreciate the fish populations being affected and completely accept that the well being of the community via a safe dam is paramount.

However, I wonder if the concern about the river being killed by a presumed pollutant should not be looked into simply to avoid prolonging the poor fishing. If the aquatic vegatation and insect life will persist worrying about the fish in the very short term is ill advised since the river is stocked. Yet, if the river were to die in the process there will be little point in stocking it in the future since you cannot stock a trout that starts eating shad right out of the gate/stocking truck.

Bfish
04-22-2010, 12:11 PM
grout is nothing more than clay and concrete (limestone and water). Not sure how it would be a threat to the river, especially since it is made to be contained in the cracks.

If your really concern look at the Corps water quality permit for the construction, it should spell out the details of the grouting on the environment.

Flows regime has more to do with the current population IMO than anything.

silvercreek
04-22-2010, 12:24 PM
Bfish, I am somewhat in the same camp as you. I spent some time yesterday looking through the impact statement on the Corps site and did not find anything on the impact of the gout itself. May have been there and I just missed it. It is a lot of pages. What makes me wonder though is that the Clinch had prolonged high flows and yet the fishing seems to have bounced right back based on forum reports. Just do not know now what to think. Regards, Silvercreek

BlueRaiderFan
04-22-2010, 02:26 PM
grout is nothing more than clay and concrete (limestone and water). Not sure how it would be a threat to the river, especially since it is made to be contained in the cracks.

If your really concern look at the Corps water quality permit for the construction, it should spell out the details of the grouting on the environment.

Flows regime has more to do with the current population IMO than anything.

Yes, but rock doesn't normally release these compounds in mass quantities like you get when you grind them up and make them into concrete/mortar. Vatamins are found in fruits/vegetation etc. Extract it, form it into a pill and take enough of it and it can make you really sick.

silvercreek
04-22-2010, 05:14 PM
As much as I like fishing the Caney and the fact that it is or was the closest quality stream, that dam has to be fixed trout or no trout. Otherwise we are going to be fishing the Cumberland from the roof of the Wildhorse saloon in downtown Nashville. **** shame, but there it is. Silvercreek

txbrown
04-22-2010, 06:40 PM
Well stated Silvercreek. It's truly a shame what has haapened at both Wolf Creek and Centerhill dams but they do have to be fixed. I just pray that it gets done effectively and efficiently so we can fish it again in a few years. At least the basis for rebuilding the Caney has been put into place with the new regs.