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View Full Version : Caney Fork...dead? 04/22/10


Worrgamesguy
04-22-2010, 07:11 PM
I think not!

Sorry Dwayne :cool:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b161/Worrgamesguy/IMG00112.jpg

That is all.

ChemEAngler
04-23-2010, 08:25 AM
Nice fish Trey. What did you get him on, if you don't mind me asking?

white95v6
04-23-2010, 08:49 AM
aww man there is still life there?

nice fish. how was the whole day.

BlueRaiderFan
04-23-2010, 01:40 PM
For me, wading, they are not nearly as abundant as in the past. Can you still catch a few? Sure, but not nearly worth the effort (to me) to wade all day to catch 2-3 fish. In statistics, they call your fish an "outlier."

gutshot
04-23-2010, 02:49 PM
That being said having the lack of skill to statistically catch an adequate sample size would also screw your statistics. The river has been in a downward spiral for 2-3 years. If you could only catch a few fish a day you wouldn't notice that the 40-60 fish days of fish over 14 inches were long gone more than 2 years ago.

Worrgamesguy
04-23-2010, 03:09 PM
Nice fish Trey. What did you get him on, if you don't mind me asking?

Olive zebra midge.

aww man there is still life there?

nice fish. how was the whole day.

Yeah, plenty of life. There were inconsistent rises all day, but around 5:00 at Happy Hollow fish started midging. I caught countless fish, most were 6-8 inches and SKINNY. No fatties whatsoever. If I had to guess, I'd say I caught almost 2 dozen fish. The biggest is pictured, I had a 12-14" rainbow as well. Smiles all day :smile:

For me, wading, they are not nearly as abundant as in the past. Can you still catch a few? Sure, but not nearly worth the effort (to me) to wade all day to catch 2-3 fish. In statistics, they call your fish an "outlier."

I think you need to give it another try.

That being said having the lack of skill to statistically catch an adequate sample size would also screw your statistics. The river has been in a downward spiral for 2-3 years. If you could only catch a few fish a day you wouldn't notice that the 40-60 fish days of fish over 14 inches were long gone more than 2 years ago.

I don't think the fishing has ever been better than this summer. We've never caught more fish than we did this summer.

BlueRaiderFan
04-23-2010, 03:15 PM
Will do. :smile:

ChemEAngler
04-23-2010, 03:16 PM
For me, wading, they are not nearly as abundant as in the past. Can you still catch a few? Sure, but not nearly worth the effort (to me) to wade all day to catch 2-3 fish. In statistics, they call your fish an "outlier."

I don't think you can immediately classify Trey's fish as an "outlier". We don't know how many fish he caught on this latest trip or others this year. Maybe he has figured out what others have failed to do. Maybe he is more willing to adapt to changes in the fish patterns, behavior, and food sources than others who are older and more set in their ways. Maybe it is an outlier. Something else to keep in mind is that as the trout population on the Caney is allowed to put some age on thanks to the new regs, the overall intelligence of the river should also increase. Which means that if somebody was catching 8 or 10 stockers per trip last year, now that those stockers have some age on them they will not be as easy to catch. Therefore catch rates should also decrease.

Not trying to call you out BRF, just saying sometimes those of us that have fished a particular river for many years are less willing to try something new when fish patterns change. We expect the fish to be in the same places eating the same things year after year. That is why they call it fishing.....

It is still relatively early in the spring, give it time. I still believe it has something to do with a wetter, colder winter than recent years spreading the trout population throughout a much larger range than people are accustomed to seeing them. As temps and flows stabilize the fish should move back into their traditional areas.

waterwolf
04-23-2010, 03:20 PM
I got curious so I went a pulled the shocking data from the Caney this year, that fish is far from an "outlier", if anything there are a bunch in there that size and bigger.

Numbers were slightly down, but not dead as so many are proclaiming.

If a person isn't catching fish, then it isn't always the rivers fault. Ever heard the phrase its not the arrow but the indian?

Mike_Anderson
04-23-2010, 03:47 PM
The Caney Fork is just an empty scare through Buffalo Valley now. No need to go there... The Grout, Eagles, Otters, and canoe paddles to the head have killed everything in the river. I hear the Clinch is smokin.

BlueRaiderFan
04-23-2010, 04:10 PM
I don't think you can immediately classify Trey's fish as an "outlier". We don't know how many fish he caught on this latest trip or others this year. Maybe he has figured out what others have failed to do. Maybe he is more willing to adapt to changes in the fish patterns, behavior, and food sources than others who are older and more set in their ways. Maybe it is an outlier. Something else to keep in mind is that as the trout population on the Caney is allowed to put some age on thanks to the new regs, the overall intelligence of the river should also increase. Which means that if somebody was catching 8 or 10 stockers per trip last year, now that those stockers have some age on them they will not be as easy to catch. Therefore catch rates should also decrease.

Not trying to call you out BRF, just saying sometimes those of us that have fished a particular river for many years are less willing to try something new when fish patterns change. We expect the fish to be in the same places eating the same things year after year. That is why they call it fishing.....

It is still relatively early in the spring, give it time. I still believe it has something to do with a wetter, colder winter than recent years spreading the trout population throughout a much larger range than people are accustomed to seeing them. As temps and flows stabilize the fish should move back into their traditional areas.


That's definitely something to think about. I wonder what it means when a person wades several sections of the river, sees no trout holding, rising or feeding at any depth within the river? I have experienced this myself and have heard it from several others. My own observations coupled with those of other fishermen over several trips is a lot of data gathered. I hope the fish do migrate back into more "traditional areas" but it's late March and the water temp has been around and above 50 for a while. Just a thought. Just for the record, I will be back to try again, but it doesn't look good imo.

PS, how long have the new regs been in place? Do you think it has been long enough for the fish to get a little educated?

silvercreek
04-23-2010, 04:16 PM
Waterwolf, I'm curious too. What was the date of that shocking? Are shocking results available online and what site? thanks, Silvercreek

BlueRaiderFan
04-23-2010, 04:19 PM
I got curious so I went a pulled the shocking data from the Caney this year, that fish is far from an "outlier", if anything there are a bunch in there that size and bigger.

Numbers were slightly down, but not dead as so many are proclaiming.

If a person isn't catching fish, then it isn't always the rivers fault. Ever heard the phrase its not the arrow but the indian?


This is interesting:

http://www2.mvr.usace.army.mil/WaterControl/shefgraph-wotem2.cfm?sid=CFST1&d=31&dt=S

Water levels seem to be low relative to earlier in the year. What were the numbers for this shocking vs this time last year? It definitely could be me, or it might be the river, or both. It could be that there are larger fish and fewer stocker sized fish. It could be a lot of things. I just know I don't see many fish around when I go.

BlueRaiderFan
04-23-2010, 04:36 PM
Trey,

Nice fish by the way and let me correct myself; "In my opinion" your fish "might" be an outlier. ;)

waterwolf
04-23-2010, 09:21 PM
Waterwolf, I'm curious too. What was the date of that shocking? Are shocking results available online and what site? thanks, Silvercreek


No the data is not available online yet, and the census was done during Jan.

David Knapp
04-23-2010, 10:11 PM
The river was still fishing fine in January...

MadisonBoats
04-23-2010, 10:18 PM
The Caney Fork is just an empty scare through Buffalo Valley now. No need to go there... The Grout, Eagles, Otters, and canoe paddles to the head have killed everything in the river. I hear the Clinch is smokin.

What? The Clinch is dead too... Most of the fish were killed off and netted by fish mongers earlier in the month.:biggrin:

BlueRaiderFan
04-24-2010, 01:19 AM
What? The Clinch is dead too... Most of the fish were killed off and netted by fish mongers earlier in the month.:biggrin:


I'm going to save both of these. It appears I am going to need some excuses! :biggrin:

BlueRaiderFan
04-24-2010, 01:22 AM
The river was still fishing fine in January...

Definitely must be the difference in skill level between you and Trey vs myself. I will have to go back and stay positive and try some new things. Always up for a challenge.;)

fishingman62
04-24-2010, 01:42 AM
i fished wed from 8am -5pm.... bettys island first..... 8 fish all new stockers 8- 9 inches except 1 14 inch bow.... soft hackles and streamers low water..... next the steps below the dam at the sand bar before the 1st bluff...... 2 hits in 2 hours same flies as bettys island saw 2 fish rise..... next happy hollow 12 fish all new stockers 8-9 inches a couple of 10 inch fish....same flies soft hackles and streamers olive color was what seemed to be the ticket....talked a guy who was using midges and scuds in different colors same story mostley small stockers.... 20 fish day for me but only the 1 quality fish.... saw more rises at happy hollow than any where else all day...so midges soft hackles streamers scuds same results ...saw bottom veggitation starting to grow... good sign... did notice alotof the white chalk like coating on the dry rocks at bettys and happy i assume from the dam repairs ...will not give up on the river to many good days with quality fish in the past 2 years hopefully it is bouncing back from heavy generation and high winter water levels...... will be there sun weather permitting
dan

BlueRaiderFan
04-24-2010, 02:15 AM
Dan,

Thanks for the update. I hope you guys are right. I'll settle for little ones at this point. I may see you out there. I wear Simms waders and a greenish Orvis hat.

Dwayne

Worrgamesguy
04-24-2010, 04:03 AM
Definitely must be the difference in skill level between you and Trey vs myself. I will have to go back and stay positive and try some new things. Always up for a challenge.;)

I'm still a paddawan, not a Jedi master like David. He is the Yoda of fly fishing.

silvercreek
04-24-2010, 08:41 AM
Waterwolf, I have heard that there was a shocking in the early part of March that turned up a substantial decline in numbers. I sure wish the TWRA would put this stuff online. Regards, Silvercreek

silvercreek
04-24-2010, 08:49 AM
Fishingman62, I'm guessing you are the guy that showed up just before I left Happy Hollow Wednesday. There was a group taking their boat out at the time. I was downstream of you looking for a rise or two. You were landing a trout as I left.
As to the white stuff everyone is reporting, I'm not so sure that has anything to do with grout. You can see the same thing anytime there is prolonged generation and then the water is taken to normal levels. I'm thinking it is some form of algae that dries out. You can see the same thing below Percy Priest dam now. regards, Silvercreek

BlueRaiderFan
04-24-2010, 12:42 PM
I'm still a paddawan, not a Jedi master like David. He is the Yoda of fly fishing.


Yeah, David is really good. No doubt he can catch them when I can't. Looks like the Caney is going to be blown out for Sunday. Hitting the WPLP next weekend though. ;)

BlueRaiderFan
04-24-2010, 12:54 PM
Waterwolf, I have heard that there was a shocking in the early part of March that turned up a substantial decline in numbers. I sure wish the TWRA would put this stuff online. Regards, Silvercreek


That's what I had heard as well. I looked for flashes, rises, cruisers, etc all over the other weekend and not much to be seen. Of course, I do need glasses. :biggrin:

fishingman62
04-24-2010, 07:24 PM
silvercreek... no that wasn't me i came down the ramp and headed straight up stream.... there was one other guy in an orange ball cap up river by the first stump.... i walked allthe way up to the top of the first island i think it was close to 2pm when i got to happy after fishing up river below the steps...wouldn't mind hooking up sometime and fishing with you .... with my job i am usually off wed and fish by myself..... sunday my other day off i usually fish with two of my buddies ....
dan

silvercreek
04-25-2010, 09:38 AM
Fishingman62, I was below the guy in the orange cap. I didn't see you. Maybe we can hook up on the Caney sometime. I avoid the place on the weekends. This site apparently does not have private messaging. Are you a member of the South East Fly Fishing Forum? They have private messaging. I'm Scud on that forum. (Sivercreek was taken)

fishingman62
04-25-2010, 07:59 PM
silver creek you can send me a messege at fishingman62@hotmail.com fished the caney today same pattern bettys, steps, then happy.....lots of fish 1 other person at bettys besides wayne and i......steps 1 other guy when we got there around 11am happy no one there at 2pm pretty much had the river to ourselves....we caught a ton of fish we stopped counting all stockers from 6-10 inches wayne did manage a 14 inch brown...flies soft hackles, green thing, olive zonkers and quatamela stick bug....we had alot of fun river was in good shape for all the rain but the wind made for some tough casting unless it was at your back...
dan

troutfanatic
04-25-2010, 09:31 PM
Fishingman62, I think I met you at Happy Hollow today at the ramp. I had the grey pontoon. It was nice talking to you. The Caney is still my favorite river. Hope to see you again on the Caney, hopefully it will not be so windy next time. :smile:

jarrod white
04-25-2010, 10:45 PM
took a ride to the Caney today, not fishing , just looking around. I saw very little activity at the dam, but i was looking better down toward Betty's. I saw a lot of risers down that way.

waterwolf
04-26-2010, 08:40 AM
Waterwolf, I have heard that there was a shocking in the early part of March that turned up a substantial decline in numbers. I sure wish the TWRA would put this stuff online. Regards, Silvercreek
First mistake, lisenting to the TWRA coldwater crew. Much different results from TVA efforts. That info is much harder to come by, as it is not really publicly offered. You can call them and they will send it to you.

TWRA generally has no idea what shape our coldwater fisheries are in, they have made so many laughable statements over the years about the health and status of our rivers, most who know give them little if any credibility.

silvercreek
04-26-2010, 10:46 AM
I was totally unaware that anyone besides the TWRA shocked the Caney or any other river for that matter. Shows how out of touch I've gotten regarding local fishing. Thanks for the info. Silvercreek

Bfish
04-26-2010, 11:45 AM
Much different results from TVA efforts.
Just curious why TVA is shocking below a Corp dam in a river that flows into another Corp reservoir?

waterwolf
04-26-2010, 11:04 PM
No idea, other then they sample all over the river system. I am sure they have some sort of coop program with the corp. I will inquire tomorrow and see what answers I can find.

BlueRaiderFan
04-27-2010, 11:12 AM
Now that this thread has had a few days to cool down a bit (assuming I was reading some posts correctly). Saying that Trey caught an "outlier" is in no way insulting to Trey. It means he is catching the fish that no one else is catching (based on my premise). It is "insulting" to the Caney Fork, however. ;)