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old tom
05-15-2010, 07:34 AM
Gut jerk reaction to this story. Why should a wild animal pay the ultimate price for man's stupidity?

http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20100515/NEWS/305150040

Addendum: Just read the newspaper comments to the story and apparently a lot of folks agree with me, most even stronger than my reaction.

silvercreek
05-15-2010, 08:46 AM
That was my initial reaction as well, but I got to thinking. If the bear is not afraid to approach a full grown man (who should have known better) what might happen if it were a kid. Regretfully, they probably should put it down.

jeffnles1
05-15-2010, 10:35 AM
Perhaps the Park Service should start issuing hefty fines for people who get too close to bears. It may give them some much needed budget relief. :smile:

It is sad the bear will have to die due to this person's stupidity, but I agree, once an animal like that loses all fear of humans, it is probably best to kill the anima. Sad but true.

With no hunting and no natural predators, the population needs to be thinned out from time to time anyway for the overall health of all the bears. Overpopulation will lead to disease and starvation.

Jeff

millerdvr
05-15-2010, 02:57 PM
I like how they say that they have a "bear that matches the description", that is too funny. lets see here, I bet it was Black, furry, with claws, and sharp teeth, walked on all four legs, and had a little stubby tail. Has anyone seen a bear that matches that description?


But all kidding aside, being a native Montanan it has always angered me when a bear has to be put down due to the stupid actions of a tourist or an idiot, every year they are putting down bears because idiots feed them, or go hiking when on their period, or leave camp trash laying about, or leave their food within reach of wild animals. With the staggering amount of morons populating and breading on this planet we are going to run out of wild bears.

jeffnles1
05-15-2010, 03:42 PM
With the staggering amount of morons populating and breading on this planet we are going to run out of wild bears.

While the supply of idiots seems never ending.

fishermen00
05-15-2010, 08:18 PM
One afternoon in Cades Cove and you'll see all the idiots one can take. It's a wonder more animals don't have to be put down considering what the spectators do in Cades Cove.

Mundele
05-15-2010, 08:33 PM
I like how they say that they have a "bear that matches the description", that is too funny. lets see here, I bet it was Black, furry, with claws, and sharp teeth, walked on all four legs, and had a little stubby tail. Has anyone seen a bear that matches that description?

That IS hilarious. A fine bit of detective work.

(It is sad that they'll have to put the bear down though, not making light of that. I think that the person should be heavily fined)

Trip
05-15-2010, 10:11 PM
Seen parents letting their 5 year old children within 2 feet of bear on the laurel falls trail. That trail tends to attract the tourist morons en mass.

Looks like another bear will make it's way to the US129 side of the park where it will meet it's fate at the hands of those wonderfully intelligent and compassionate folk know as bear hunters.

GrouseMan77
05-16-2010, 08:33 AM
"In his effort to photograph the bear, the visitor allowed it to approach within inches and the bear bit the manís foot".

:mad:

I can't stand stuff like this. Some of these people who come into the park are incredibly stupid. I'm sure that this guy had stopped dead in his tracks and stood perfectly still.

gmreeves
05-16-2010, 01:41 PM
The wound didn't even require medical attention. Sad story for that bear who was only being a bear.

knucklehead
05-17-2010, 02:47 AM
with several signs posted about not feeding and/or approaching wildlife, what effect can they have if the offender gets to walk away for free? some people don't need the signs for obvious reasons. the ones who do need warnings seem to also be the ones who ignore them.
being an avid snake hunter/finder, i've had several encounters with park officials, some of them were almost ugly, because they thought i "might be approaching too closely." I'm well aware of the potential dangers of my pursuit(most of the time). I like to believe I know when to back off.
My blood has boiled several times when i was cruisin the cove and watched a bear let a brainless photographer leave unscathed. I've also witnessed rangers casually just back people away from near-by bears. the park has a gold mine waiting in the cameras of the thoughtless.
Does anyone know if the park can issue monetary fines for "approaching too closely"? If not, is there any way one can start a campaign for such?

Knothead
05-17-2010, 03:24 PM
I recall an incident a few years ago where a man was fined because he attacked a bear to prevent it from killing a fawn.
From my times in the park, having enough rangers to monitor the activities and stupid actions of people would be impossible, especialy on the backcountry trails. Maybe the park should have guided tours with buses and a ranger on the bus to watch the people and protect the wildlife. Just a thought.

Kytroutbum
05-18-2010, 11:12 AM
I think the bear may have been the sow who every year has have a number of cubs.

It's just a matter of time till we have another death!! I told a gal last month walking her dog up Little River Trail that dogs were not allowed up there. She made a comment about that rule wasn't really enforced anyway. (Local plates on her car). My son worked for
Tremont Institute several summers years ago. He says bear issues are a weekly or biweekly occurence just covered up well by the local tourist organizations.

The Shoshone National Forest in Wyoming issues $175 fines for leaving unsecured food and other attractants out any place. GSMNP needs to adopt a similar policy. I've told a NPS personnel about a group in Cades Cove with a bear very closely cornered, he commented I know very unconcerned.

We still have a culture of cute little cuddly bears that won't be changed until major fines are levied and more enforcement personnel are in place!

Jim Casada
05-18-2010, 12:35 PM
Seen parents letting their 5 year old children within 2 feet of bear on the laurel falls trail. That trail tends to attract the tourist morons en mass.

Looks like another bear will make it's way to the US129 side of the park where it will meet it's fate at the hands of those wonderfully intelligent and compassionate folk know as bear hunters.
Trip--If I interpret the message rightly, your comment regarding bear hunters suggests those of us who pursue or have pursued the sport lack intelligence and compassion. I am not a keen bear hunter but I am a serious hunter and have hunted bears. I would like to think I have a modicum of intelligence, and when it comes to compassion, I would simply point out that hunters are the true friends of wildlife. It is hunter monies, in forms such as excise taxes, licenses, mandatory stamps, and the like, which have made a critical difference for elk, turkeys, whitetails, and yes, bears.

I'm not looking to pick an argument but merely pointing out that seeming anti-hunting sentiments raise my hackles. I know I'm not the only hunter on this forum by a long shot, with Grouseman's tag telling a tale, and Byron is a hunter as well (and has written more than once of being a participant in bear hunts).

That being said, the whole "bite the foot" situation is a prime example of human idiocy, right up there with whomever was practicing casting in the cemetery at Troutfest (man, did that make my blood boil, and I feel for Byron because I know just how protective and caring mountain folks are when it comes to cemeteries). I think my wife and I may well have seen the bear in question while en route to Townsend. At any rate, there was the beginning of a bear jam at the Laurel Falls trailhead, and idiots with cameras were face-to-face with a young bear (likely one whose mother had just "kicked it out" on its own).

Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

Trip
05-18-2010, 05:54 PM
Trip--If I interpret the message rightly, your comment regarding bear hunters suggests those of us who pursue or have pursued the sport lack intelligence and compassion. I am not a keen bear hunter but I am a serious hunter and have hunted bears. I would like to think I have a modicum of intelligence, and when it comes to compassion, I would simply point out that hunters are the true friends of wildlife. It is hunter monies, in forms such as excise taxes, licenses, mandatory stamps, and the like, which have made a critical difference for elk, turkeys, whitetails, and yes, bears.

I am sure you are not one of the ones I refer to, Jim. I have just had very negative experiences with some of the hunters over on 129. The ones I refer to aren't true friends of much, including their own dogs. I will just leave it at that. I am sure if you hunted over there, you have had some bad experiences with my kind as well, the evil biker. lol

I fully understand the need and fully appreciate the hunters who do it right, like I am sure you do. I am sorry I generalized like that.

Jim Casada
05-18-2010, 06:24 PM
Trip--Thanks, and yes, there are slob hunters (and slob fishermen and hikers, etc.). I just reacted negatively because I felt everyone who hunted was being cast in a negative light.
Rest assured I have plenty of first-hand knowledge of bear hunters in the area to which you referred, and I've had two bad experiences over the years with them chasing bears in the off-season when they weren't supposed to do so. Amazingly, the NCWRC allows pre-season chases, but this was outside that time frame. I might add that when the Park moves bears into the Nantahala or Cherokee National Forests, more often than not they head straight back to the Park and its easy pickings.
If the Park would crack down on folks who break all rules of common sense, and do so in the form of stiff fines, it wouldn't take long for the word to get around. I've done my fair share of photography and have, over the years, sold a passel of photos. However, I understand wildlife and really have some issues with the photos of big-racked whitetails (mostly in Cades Cove) which appear in hunting magazines. The only thing more artificial is photos of deer in fenced areas.
Anyway, thanks for the clarification. As for the biker mentality and presence along the Dragon's Tail, it is a plague on the earth second only to the situation years ago when a huge group calling themselves the Rainbow Coalition took up residence in the woodlands of Graham County. What a mess, and it's too bad a bear didn't go on a rampage in their midst.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

Vern
05-18-2010, 07:31 PM
Jim you hit the nail on the head. You know it boils down to people not obeying the laws. Tourist getting to close to the animals, hunters hunting or running their dogs in the off season, fishermen not following the slot limits or bait fishing, bikers crossing the center line or riding side by side, or passing in no passing zone. All of these things hurt not just themselves, but more so the animals and people that they come in contact with. It boils down that we are a very self gratifying society. The rules and laws are in place and should be followed. One law breaker can give a whole part of society a bad reputation!

Trip
05-18-2010, 07:58 PM
riding side by side

Riding 2 across or side by side is legal as long as it isn't meant for overtaking, but it's perfectly legal to ride 2 abreast in the same lane in Tennessee. I am not a cruiser rider, so it's not something I do, but they can do it.

Byron Begley
05-18-2010, 08:18 PM
This is a great thread. I am outraged like everyone else about this incident. It sickens me that this small, young animal should die because a human did something stupid. On the other hand, like Jim said, I went on two bear and boar hunts last year and can't wait to do it again this fall. Bear and boar hunting with packs of Plott Hounds, handlers and standers allowed me to be part of a true Appalachian heritage and that has added much to my life as an East Tennessee sportsman. I have learned from and enjoyed meeting and hunting with these new friends. To be honest with you, I don't really want to kill a bear. What I want to do is fulfill a childhood dream to drop a wild boar, a big one. But, if the opportunity arises, and those hound drive a large bear toward me, and I know I have a really good shot, it will happen. This type of hunting is close. Most shots are 50 to 150 feet away. I know that seems different to most people. Like Jim, I am part of this culture though not to the extent he is. I guess that is one reason why we are such good friends.

Byron

Trip
05-18-2010, 08:29 PM
I don't know how you guys boar hunt, those things scare me something awful.

Byron Begley
05-18-2010, 08:49 PM
Hi Trip,

Motorcycles scare the heck out of me. I feel safer hunting a wild boar than riding a bike. Be careful buddy. I will too.

Byron

buzzmcmanus
05-18-2010, 09:55 PM
I don't know how you guys boar hunt......
Spot and stalk, with a bow, and close enough that you can hear them breathe. I could tell you stories that would make my wife lock me in the house for the month of September.

I know you've had some bad experiences with some hunters, but if you ever want to experience the other side of it, just let me know. There's a good chance I'll be spending a week in September bow hunting hogs in South Cherokee, then most weekends in October, I'll be calling bears here locally. The only thing required, is to be in shape for alot of hiking, and a good pair of snake boots.

Trip
05-18-2010, 10:07 PM
Hi Trip,

Motorcycles scare the heck out of me. I feel safer hunting a wild boar than riding a bike. Be careful buddy. I will too.

Byron

Hey Byron, yeah I guess it's all about perspective.

Spot and stalk, with a bow, and close enough that you can hear them breathe. I could tell you stories that would make my wife lock me in the house for the month of September.

I know you've had some bad experiences with some hunters, but if you ever want to experience the other side of it, just let me know. There's a good chance I'll be spending a week in September bow hunting hogs in South Cherokee, then most weekends in October, I'll be calling bears here locally. The only thing required, is to be in shape for alot of hiking, and a good pair of snake boots.

I know a lot of good hunters, family members are big deer hunters and I love me some deer jerky. Again sorry about that generalization.

I may have to take you up on that offer if it is still good in October. Sounds like fun.

knucklehead
05-18-2010, 10:22 PM
wow. what a choice. i've never been pig shootin or motor biking. i think i'd enjoy boar hunting much more. eventhough the only real hunting i've done is for fish, i'm fully sympathetic with careful and considerate hunters. in fact, i think the world needs more hunters. also, more understanding of wildlife in general would greatly help matters. national parks, with their borders and rangers and what not, seem to get some people thinking that the animals within are somehow not really wild. the park and surrounding wild areas that we are fortunate enough to frequent are priceless gems in a world full of fool's gold. all too often, the park gets treated as just another attraction, as if it's just an extension of the circus known as gatlinburg.
with regard to rules and regulations, i'm not known for following every law to the t but in the park or other wild areas, i get peeved easily at the slightest breech. someone mentioned in a previous post about dog walking on the little river trail. i, too, have had a similar encounter. the rules are apparently for everybody else. and then when you raise some concern, they end up getting upset...about being called out.

p.s. these posts are freaking awesome to read.

Vern
05-18-2010, 11:13 PM
As far as the rangers giving out fines, I know for a fact that the rangers at Elkmont will give fine for a camp with food left out. I forget which trip last year but in the camp 3 down from me was a bunch of young adults, that did a little to much partying. One passed out and hanging 1/2 out of a lawn chair, I figured that alone would teach him a lesson. But 10 min later he was rousted by a law enforcement ranger. I talked to him later and his fine was over $350 for food and trash violations. But last year it wasn't bear problems but coyote. I caught a coyote trying to get in my side window of my truck topper. He was very large and bold. Scratched the crap (can I say that?) out of my truck.

buzzmcmanus
05-19-2010, 07:24 AM
Trip, shoot me an email so I know how to get in touch with you.

ramappraisals@yahoo.com

old tom
05-19-2010, 07:34 AM
I didn't know it was a real word. Google touron and the first hit is the Urban Dictionary. I think this photographer's picture should be beside the definition.


The derogatory term combines the words "Tourist" with "Moron" to describe any person who, while on vacation, commits an act of pure stupidity.

The term has its roots in the resort, park service and service industries and can easily be dated back at least as far as the mid 1970's. It is widely used throughout the US, but may not be in general use by mainstream society.

Mostly an inside "Joke", created to vent emotion when dealing with the public.

In Yosemite National Park, "Tourons" regularly block access into the park by stopping on the single lane road to take pictures of wildlife.

"Tourist, Please leave your brain before entering " was the sign in an underground cartoon in Yosemite in the late 1980s. It depicted the entrance to the park with a park service employee leaning out the gate to accept the brain of a tourist driving a Volkswagen Beetle. Another sign in the cartoon read "Night Drop".

The cartoon was seen in both park service and concessions offices during that period and reflects the over all harmless, yet critical view of people who forget how to act in public.


The "Touron" asked the Ranger when the deer were released for viewing.

jeffnles1
05-19-2010, 11:27 AM
I would venture to guess about 2/3 of the stupid stuff we see is because of a simple lack of respect and the general entitlement mentality that has become so pervasive in American society today. Those are the ones who anger me.

I believe the other 1/3 is a reflection of how urban and suburban our society has become and how detached we are from the land. Some of the people really don't have a clue how quickly they can become hurt and/or dead out in nature. Their experience in the wild is a lunge chair under a shade tree in their back yard. They long for some wilderness experience and head to places like Yellowstone, the Smoky Mountains, Everglades, etc. to seek that wilderness experience.

However, they have no skills to manage what may happen if things start going badly. It would be like me hopping on a big Harley and heading off on a cross country trip. I have ridden bikes a couple times and as long as everything went well, I'd probably be OK, but the moment something out of the ordinary happened, I'd be in a world of trouble.

I think many people who visit the park are in a place similar to me on a big bike. They have a basic level understanding, but are not really skilled or have any "tools" to handle what happens "if".

Some see a lazy looking bear and think just a little closer won't hurt and I'll get a great picture for the family or friends. What they don't realize is that bear can cross 30 feet in less than 1 second and as lazy as it may look, it is really fast and agile. They think, I have a good sense of balance and I can walk out just another step on that rock and get a great view of the valley below. They have no idea the rock may crumble below their feet and end up giving them a much closer look at the valley floor than they realized.

Then, there are the slobs who think it's OK to drop a used diaper in the parking lot or toss a beer can out next to the stream (why is it always Budweiser by the way).

The littering slobs and ones who are generally disrespectful are the ones that bother me the most.

My wife and I have done our best to raise our son to be respectful of people, their property, nature, the law and generally to be a person who has a sense of what's right and what's wrong. Unfortunately, sometimes I feel like we're the last 2 parents on Earth who do that.

I, too have enjoyed this thread.

Jeff

Trip
05-19-2010, 12:01 PM
Then, there are the slobs who think it's OK to drop a used diaper in the parking lot or toss a beer can out next to the stream (why is it always Budweiser by the way).

yeah the litterers amaze me with how eventive they get with the trash they throw out. I usually take part in a bi-annual clean up of US129. We find a lot of crazy stuff.

Streamhound
05-19-2010, 03:38 PM
My wife used this term when she was a ranger at Mammoth Cave NP. The best questions were "how much of the cave is underground?" and " how much of the cave is unexplored?"

remember no matter how tanked you are you can always ask for a bud, the other brands get harder to say the more you drink :biggrin:

flyred06
05-19-2010, 04:52 PM
I am a definite tourist and my wife loves to see and photo bears. However, to try and eliminate our "stupid moments" I went ahead and forked out the extra bucks for a nice camera with a 300 mm zoom lens. I also got a digital one with a 200 mm zoom lens. So therefore if we can keep all the other people back we can take very good shots from a safe distance. Some might say well thats great but what if we can not afford that kind of cameras and lens. Well I say there are very many affordable lenses and cameras out there for all budgets, and then I ask what price tag do you put on life. One incedent can cause you, your spouse, children and/or the animal its life. Now what price tag do you put on that. When you way it out then the cost of the equipment is not that much. When you remember that these things can be used for several different ocassions and for many years of vacations. Just my 2 cents.:rolleyes:

sammcdonald
05-19-2010, 07:42 PM
today the laurel falls trail was closed for a cleanup of the garbage on/near the trail.....the clean up netted a dumpster full of stuff (and this is just may)....the trail was closed, marked closed, and had a vip at the trailhead and people were still trying to go on the trail...it's time the superintendant quit his view that the visitor is always right...they are not.

Owl
05-19-2010, 09:38 PM
Last I checked, the park had plenty of bears to spare. If the bear bit your kid, you'd want it's head on a platter.

Also, the swipe at hunters as unintelligent etc. was unnecessary and misplaced. Hunters and fishermen better stick together to hold off the anti's for as long as possible. Frankly, I'm surprised they still allow angling inside the GSMNP. If you want the help of millions when they finally do try to ban it, you'd better rethink your dislike of hunters. If you don't - well, then I guess it'll be alot more interesting of a fight when and if it ever comes.

There will always be stupid people, just like there will always be bears. Jumping off the deep end and going into "crisis" mode is unnecessary.

Byron Begley
05-19-2010, 09:45 PM
This is timely. Our neighbor, Herb, told Paula tonight there was a bear on his back porch. I've got a feeling, after a couple of years with no problems, this is going to be one of those bear years.

Byron

Trip
05-19-2010, 11:09 PM
Also, the swipe at hunters as unintelligent etc. was unnecessary and misplaced. Hunters and fishermen better stick together to hold off the anti's for as long as possible.

I am sorry for the generalization of bear hunters.

I am not against all hunters. I don't think I would hesitate to shoot a deer or bear or boar, it's just not a sport I have pursued or have participated in besides target shooting, so I couldn't say I was a hunter. I am definitely not anti gun. I very much support the recent changes we have made for carrying. I also fish to creel. I like fish, they are tasty. I am definitely not a PETA member.

I would be willing to discuss why I misspoke like I did away from the board, but I don't think it is for the benefit of LRO for me to do it here. Sorry I did it in the first place.

I hope this clear things up.

Carlito
05-20-2010, 10:08 AM
I am sorry for the generalization of bear hunters.

I am not against all hunters. I don't think I would hesitate to shoot a deer or bear or boar, it's just not a sport I have pursued or have participated in besides target shooting, so I couldn't say I was a hunter. I am definitely not anti gun. I very much support the recent changes we have made for carrying. I also fish to creel. I like fish, they are tasty. I am definitely not a PETA member.

I would be willing to discuss why I misspoke like I did away from the board, but I don't think it is for the benefit of LRO for me to do it here. Sorry I did it in the first place.

I hope this clear things up.

Dude, it's all good. I think a lot of us know where you were coming from. Things can appear a little too black and white on message boards sometimes. I've been down that road on this very forum!

On a side note, am I the only one that thinks bears in the Smokies would be less inclined to approach humans (or allow humans to approach) if they had some hunting pressure?

I'm not a bear hunter, but I enjoy pursuing other game. In my experience, you can go anywhere that animals are hunted and they avoid humans at all costs. I'm not necessarily advocating allowing bear hunting in the Smokies, but I'd like to get some feedback on the concept. Seems to me it might not be all that bad of an idea given the number "tourons" visiting the park...

jeffnles1
05-20-2010, 12:51 PM
On a side note, am I the only one that thinks bears in the Smokies would be less inclined to approach humans (or allow humans to approach) if they had some hunting pressure?


I'm not sure about hunting, but it is probably time to thin the herd down a bit. As little as 10 years ago, it was a rare treat to see a bear. It was something I found noteworthy. Now, it's very common. In April, my son and I spotted 6 in 2 days. A while back, one was lucky to see one in a trip.

Either they have all moved closer to the road and trails, or there are just a lot more of them than there used to be.

Jeff

Byron Begley
05-20-2010, 09:15 PM
Two ladies I know very well were here for Troutfest from Atlanta. I trust them and believe what they say. On a trip to Cades Cove last week they counted 22 bears. They told me they saw a sow with 4 cubs. I have never heard of that before. Cades Cove probably has the highest density in the Park. Our Police Chief saw 8 while driving over the Foothills Parkway to go fishing last year. I drove over the Foothills Parkway twice today. I am always watching for a boar or bear. They run across the road in front of us all the time. We usually go over to fish around daybreak and return close to dark during the summer. Paula and I were thinking about cooking on the grill tonight. We found we were out of charcoal so we didn't. But, now that a bear is hanging around our area we need to have something that makes a lot of noise like a gun in case a bear tries to rob the grill. That happened to Walter Babb one time.

Byron

Jim Casada
05-21-2010, 07:37 AM
Carlito--You are on target when it comes to hunting pressure having a direct impact on animal behavior/interaction with humans. Rest assured you won't find any bears in the Cherokee, Nantahala, or Pisgah National Forests, all adjacent to the Park and all places where bear hunting is allowed, approaching humans or hanging around to get their picture taken.

That being said, hunting for bears or any other indigenous species won't take place in the Park. That's the law. The Park does hire some "snipers" to deal with wild hogs, but they aren't native to the Park.

The problem in the Park with bears is a microcosm of what happens anywhere when animals lose their fear of humans thanks to being totally protected, and of course humans with intelligence quotients wells hort of the three-digit level make it worse with their behavior.

Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

Grannyknot
05-21-2010, 08:51 AM
My quick opinion......the bear problem (which isn't really a problem in my opinion) is directly related to the management of cades cove. Cades Cove is the perfect storm for issues with bears.

First, you have the naturally occuring issues. Bears have, for longer than the park has existed, foraged for food in Cades Cove in greater density because of its ecosystem and propensity to grow wild berries & various nuts.

Secondly, you have tourists aimlessly wandering around outside a caravan of cars like it is a petting zoo. Once wild animals become accustomed to seeing something on a daily basis, it is no longer foreign to them, thus they become curious and want to investigate.

Third, you have the campground, which if any of you have ever seen the Yogi Bear cartoons, Jellystone Park is not too far from the reality of cades cove campground....food all over the place & massive amounts of grills cooking highly seasoned food on a nightly basis. Similar things happen on the Abrams Falls trail, so I won't go into a rant about food wrappers and lunch items being sprawled all over the place on the trail.

I love the history & beauty of Cades Cove, but I hate that the place has become an auto touring mecca. I do however, hesitate to push for a change, because that traffic supports the small businesses of Townsend.

tnh2owader
05-21-2010, 09:59 AM
GrannyKnot, I have allot of the same opinions as you. And, I sure don't know the correct answer to this issue. But I guess we need to remember
that if we really love these things that the good Lord has provided us to
enjoy and that the key words here are "nature" and "wild" life is that the best things to do is let them be as natural and as wild as we can if we
want to continue to enjoy them. So I guess, the least we do to interfere
and interrupt what the Lord has created the longer the joy will remain.:smile:

Bran
05-21-2010, 10:30 AM
If they had to tussle with one of these big boys they wouldn't be too eager to coax him up for a "personal" encounter:

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z9/bmidkiff_photos/IMG_0846.jpg

jeffnles1
05-21-2010, 10:42 AM
I wouldn't be too sure about that. 2 summers ago while in Yellowstone, I saw a bunch of people walking down a hillside (20 or 30 of them) with cameras pointed toward the bottom. About 100 yards ahead of them was the biggest bear I've ever seen. It was a grizzly and it's head looked to be about the size of a car door. This guy was VERY big even for a grizzly bear.

Had he decided to charge that group, I would have hated to be the slowest one in the pack.

We were heading to a stream to fish so we didn't stick around to watch the show, but this group of idiots was still moving forward toward a bear sitting there eating some type of berry on a bush (not sure what it was but he was eating something off a bunch of bushes at the bottom of the hill).

I know I would not want to be the person to interfere with his lunch plans, or perhaps become on the menu.

Some just don't care, some think it won't happen to me, and some are, like I said earlier, inexperienced when it comes to being out in the woods and have no idea they are in danger or putting the animal in danger.

One of my favorite quotes: "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin


If they had to tussle with one of these big boys they wouldn't be too eager to coax him up for a "personal" encounter:

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z9/bmidkiff_photos/IMG_0846.jpg

Bran
05-21-2010, 11:29 AM
Yessir, no doubt, that's pretty doggone stupid!!

Carlito
05-21-2010, 11:31 AM
One of my favorite quotes: "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin

LoL. I was just talking about this exact observation with my cube neighbor yesterday.

If you look at it from a stats perspective, a more accurate statement would be that half the people in this world are dumber than the MEDIAN intelligence. In reality, a good deal more than half of the people in this world are equal to or dumber than the AVERAGE intelligence. Yikes.

It's like measures of income and the 80/20 rule. Average income will tend to appear higher than median income, which often is a more accurate representation of a population.

Sorry. Enough dorky stats junk.

jross
05-21-2010, 12:20 PM
I understand "touron", but I don't think it's just a tourist thing....I think people are stupid. Like the line from Men in Black "a person is smart. People are dumb...." I'm a teacher, worked at a Wal-mart, work summers doing fed refuge clean up, etc.... in other words....

people are silly at home so what's to change them when they go on the road?!

old tom
06-25-2010, 05:59 AM
The latest in this saga: http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20100625/NEWS/306250052

It appears some people are educated beyond their level of intelligence.

Carlito
06-25-2010, 09:18 AM
The latest in this saga: http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20100625/NEWS/306250052

It appears some people are educated beyond their level of intelligence.

A degree in environmental studies?!? What a freaking idiot.

Vern
06-25-2010, 01:46 PM
There is another thread on the board about what are you afraid of, I have been trying to think of what to say, when I realized that I am not afraid of much, but I have a lot of respect for wildlife. If this fellow is educated on wildlife then he should have known not to approach a bear close enough for one to bite his foot. Same thing with a Rattle Snake. if you are close enough to play with one with a stick, you will get bite. I have been coming to the GSMNP for 21 years averaging 4trips a year. I have only had one bear take a defensive posture against me and that was because I came up the stream and surprised him. Give the wildlife space and respect and you should not have any issues. Realize that they are physically stronger and faster than you are, give them space or give up space to them. But if you don't respect them and treat them like a domesticated pet, then you will learn to fear them quickly.

jeffnles1
06-25-2010, 02:56 PM
There is another thread on the board about what are you afraid of, I have been trying to think of what to say, when I realized that I am not afraid of much, but I have a lot of respect for wildlife. If this fellow is educated on wildlife then he should have known not to approach a bear close enough for one to bite his foot. Same thing with a Rattle Snake. if you are close enough to play with one with a stick, you will get bite. I have been coming to the GSMNP for 21 years averaging 4trips a year. I have only had one bear take a defensive posture against me and that was because I came up the stream and surprised him. Give the wildlife space and respect and you should not have any issues. Realize that they are physically stronger and faster than you are, give them space or give up space to them. But if you don't respect them and treat them like a domesticated pet, then you will learn to fear them quickly.

Well said.

Owl
06-25-2010, 05:27 PM
Gut jerk reaction to this story. Why should a wild animal pay the ultimate price for man's stupidity?

http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20100515/NEWS/305150040

Addendum: Just read the newspaper comments to the story and apparently a lot of folks agree with me, most even stronger than my reaction.



I'm sure it's been said, but because the next person it bites and/or kills could be someone's child. There must be a distinction made between an animal and a human being. I think most folks would agree that the chance it will bite/attack/munch/taste again with possibly fatal consequences for a human being is reason enough.

Do I think people get way too close to the bears and other wildlife? Absolutely, 100%.

Do I think the wildlife in the park is more important than human life? nope.

old tom
06-25-2010, 09:06 PM
Fair point, Owl. I certainly wouldn't want to see someone who is totally innocent, such as a child, harmed in any way. And from what I've read, relocation of the bear is not an option either - once they've had a taste of the human flesh, they can't be trusted not to come back for seconds.

I don't think the guy who was bitten should face the same consequenses as the bear. And I don't know what courses are required to earn a degree in environmental studies. But I can't for the life of me, understand how you could get close enough to a wild animal to get bitten and still think you've done nothing wrong. Apparently the guy is even stupider than I originally thought.

flyman
06-25-2010, 10:32 PM
I think most people would give animals a wider berth if they knew just how quick that animal can close the gap between you and them. I don't know that any type of fine or punishment is necessary for the fellow that was bitten. What good is that going to do anyone?