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kid gloves
06-11-2010, 01:18 PM
Hello everyone, its been a while since I have visited this website, about nine months I think. At the time I remember someone posting information about updated topo maps of the smokies. I will be camping at smokemont mid July. Would the uppers parts of raven fork be too ambitious for a couple of novice fishermen. Thanks ahead of time for any info!

MadisonBoats
06-11-2010, 01:20 PM
It was probably JoeFred...

Check: www.smokystreams.com (http://www.smokystreams.com)

Grannyknot
06-11-2010, 01:29 PM
Would the uppers parts of raven fork be too ambitious for a couple of novice fishermen. Thanks ahead of time for any info!

You should use the search feature and search for Raven or Three Forks. There has been a plethora of information, history, & trip reports posted over the last few years.

flyman
06-11-2010, 02:23 PM
Would the uppers parts of raven fork be too ambitious for a couple of novice fishermen.

That depends, can I have you stuff if you die?:biggrin:

bmc
06-11-2010, 03:16 PM
I use a Trails Illustrated topo map of the Smokies that has a 2007 revision date. The map seemed accurate enough for that area when I was there in March 2009. Are there newer maps? Has anything significant changed?

As far as difficulty is concerned, that is fairly subjective and dependent on experience and fitness. You could certainly find easier trails to hike and stretches of water to fish; but I wouldn't fault anyone for wanting to experience the remoteness and rugged beauty of the Raven Fork area. I would not plan a trip there immediately after or during heavy rains.

If you stay at Smokemont and drive to the Hyatt Ridge TH, you'll be very tempted by the Bradley Fork, Oconaluftee and Straight Fork. I'll leave the specific fishing info for those closer and more experienced than I.

Jim Casada
06-11-2010, 04:38 PM
Kid Gloves--JOeFred has done some great work on most sections of the Park and at least some of his stuff is now for sale.
As for upper Raven Fork, the hike in to the campsite at Enloe Creek isn't too terribly difficult, but just remember there's no trail access except that lateral trail which simply descends from Hyatt Ridge to Raven Fork, crosses, and continues along Enloe Creek towards Bradley For, It's the most remote area of the Park and one of the more rugged, expecially the gorge downstream. Much would depend on your age and level of fitness, but basically if you venture there you have an adventure in front of you. The fishing is first-rate, but there are other places which are infinitely more accessible and quite attractive from the standpoint of the quality of fishing.
To borrow from a country song, "I ain't as good as I once was" (physically) and I'm pretty much with flyman on this one. It's a place for the young, fit, and slightly wild, and if you are on the north side of 40, unless you are very fit, don't do it.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

flyman
06-11-2010, 09:21 PM
All joking aside, listen to Jim. Off trail hiking in this part of the park, or almost any part of the park entails crawling over, under, through all kinds of obstacles and terrain. Boulders the size of a small houses, blow downs, logs, rhododendron hells, and dog hobble thick enough to choke a goat. Off trail is OK if you are following old man ways, road beds, or old rail road grades, but when it comes to this type of terrain it is a different story. I honestly think particularly being a new fisherman you would expend so much energy getting to and from this area that it would detract from your fishing experience. You can find plenty of places with good trails to get away from the majority of the people who visit the park. I would concentrate on fishing, and leave the lost world jungle exploration for another trip.

eastprong
06-13-2010, 06:02 AM
Older, but authentic, topo maps available here:

http://www.dlia.org/atbi/science/park_quad_pdfs/topo_index_24k.shtml

JoeFred
06-13-2010, 08:49 PM
... I remember someone posting information about updated topo maps of the smokies...
It was probably JoeFred...

Thanks, Shawn.
kidgloves, although there are more up to date digital topo maps of the region "out there" they are priced for the Google's and National Geograhics of the world.. The free-for-download PDFs and TIFFs of the U. S. Geological Survey 7.5 Minute Quadrangle topographic maps are available for the rest of us. These are from scans of hard copeis of the maps that were created/edited/revised no more recently than the 60s for the most part. Therefore, current day boundaries and names of facilities may differ from that shown. Also, some man-made structures have been added that do not appear on the maps. Lastly, certain images that do appear on the maps have, in reality, partially or completely disappeared from view with the passing of time.
Older, but authentic, topo maps available here:
http://www.dlia.org/atbi/science/park_quad_pdfs/topo_index_24k.shtml

eastprong, this is a good source of the PDFs.

TIFs are on the same web site ... http://www.dlia.org/atbi/science/park_quad_maps.shtml

Kid Gloves--JOeFred has done some great work on most sections of the Park and at least some of his stuff is now for sale....

Thanks, Jim. I've temporarily halted selling downloads until they are available with shaded relief versions of the quad maps. Below is a snipit from the front of the Little River map I hope to have printed on waterproof paper within the next few weeks. It shows part of Fish Camp Prong drainage and an illustration of species color coding. (National Park Service Fisheries Management has graciously provided me trout distribution data from their research.)

8/29/2010 Update: Have resumed providing free downloads of the basic versions of maps.

JoeFred

2/15 Update: Deleted map image previously posted.

kid gloves
06-16-2010, 07:11 PM
Thanks for all the info guys. Good advise. I will most likely stay around smokemont. Condition wise I think I could handle Raven Fork,(famous last words), even though I am just north of fifty Jim, my son,15yrs. old, and I lack the experience and knowledge for such a trip. Maybe someday, God willing!

Jim Casada
06-16-2010, 07:36 PM
Kid Gloves--I think you've made a wise decision, because venturing far from the Enloe Creek campsite in the Raven For drainage entails a lot of "ifs." One key factor would be top-drawer woodsmanship skills.
If you stay at Smokemont, you can put your fitness to a decent test by hiking fair up Bradley Fork for a day of fishing--with maybe Tennessee Branch or Sweat Heifer Branch as potential destinations.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com

tennswede
06-16-2010, 07:57 PM
Not to start an argument or hijack the thread but let's do a poll. This snipit from Joe Fred shows no brown trout at campsite 23. I,however caught one 8 inch brown at the mouth of Goshen Prong in 2006. My question, how far up a watershed have you all caught a brown trout?

lwflyrod
06-17-2010, 12:01 AM
It was probably JoeFred...

Check: www.smokystreams.com (http://www.smokystreams.com)

Those maps are great, I had gotten a copy of Little River System from him last year, used it for our trip and again This year. It was a super help
We went up Sunday and We just got back today from the smokies and his maps helped us plan what streams we wanted to fish, and how to get there.

Awesome tool

Thanks JoeFred.

Crockett
06-17-2010, 08:26 AM
Hey Hans if you let Fred know he will update the map. I think most of the species mapping is done from book references and word of mouth from fishermen like yourself. I have sent him reports like that from at least one place I fished and he is very appreciative since he wants it to be accurate (as it can be at least).

JoeFred
06-17-2010, 07:39 PM
I should have explained that the species coding shown in the snip-it (and on the maps to come) is based solely on data provided to me recently by the National Park Service from research by Fisheries Management biologists. Although I've tried other methods, I now think using the NPS data is the best way to go on the updated maps... knowing full well that there will be exceptions to the results of sampling like Hans' brown. Helps keeps things interesting.

JF

tennswede
06-17-2010, 07:49 PM
JoeFred,

I understand exactly, my original question still stands, how far up have anyone on here caught a brown. I'm talking elevation. My brown was a little north of 3200 ft I would guess.

As for your data, I'm not suggesting that anyone go that far up on a brown trout mission. I think fish move around a lot and it was probably a fluke. Most browns will be lower than that.

JoeFred
07-07-2010, 12:22 PM
Hans, I wish I could say I have caught a brown high up in a watershed. Maybe one day. As I worked on a map of upper Deep Creek (http://www.smokystreams.com/maps/trudc01.htm), I saw that the NPS Fisheries Managemement biologists encountered browns at elevations approaching 3800 feet.

I hope you get some more responses to your question.

JF

JoeFred
10-20-2010, 10:13 AM
The first of the GPS-compatible maps (Eagle & Lower Hazel Creeks) is available at LRO and elsewhere.

JF

Knothead
10-25-2010, 10:48 AM
I am just north of fifty My father always said that it's not the age, it's the mileage. I'm ready for an oil change and a tune-up! My wife will have to get one of those extended warranties! Good fishing, kid gloves and kg Jr.!

Grannyknot
02-04-2011, 02:17 PM
Sorry to bring back an old thread....didn't really feel the need to start a new one.

If anyone was using the old quadrangle maps of the smokies on the DLIA site, you might have noticed that section of their website can no longer be found....Ben Zank, the GSMNP cartographic technician, has combined them into one very useful PDF file, which can be downloaded by going here ->
http://dlia.sunsite.utk.edu/park-maps (Click GeoPDF park map)
Its very large, takes a minute to download, and a little while to fully load, but once its done, you have all the detailed quads in 1 file, rather than seperate files.

This map is better, in my opinion, than the trails illustrated map. If you have access to a high resolution color plotter, you've got yourself a free map.

NDuncan
02-04-2011, 03:36 PM
I liked the old files, but this even better! Thanks for recommending

Mac
02-04-2011, 04:27 PM
Sorry to bring back an old thread....didn't really feel the need to start a new one.

If anyone was using the old quadrangle maps of the smokies on the DLIA site, you might have noticed that section of their website can no longer be found....Ben Zank, the GSMNP cartographic technician, has combined them into one very useful PDF file, which can be downloaded by going here ->
http://dlia.sunsite.utk.edu/park-maps (Click GeoPDF park map)
Its very large, takes a minute to download, and a little while to fully load, but once its done, you have all the detailed quads in 1 file, rather than seperate files.

This map is better, in my opinion, than the trails illustrated map. If you have access to a high resolution color plotter, you've got yourself a free map.


Grannyknot, this is an excellent map download, Thank you :cool:

JoeFred
02-05-2011, 09:19 AM
If anyone was using the old quadrangle maps of the smokies on the DLIA site, you might have noticed that section of their website can no longer be found....Ben Zank, the GSMNP cartographic technician, has combined them into one very useful PDF file, which can be downloaded...

Grannyknot, thanks for the info. Kudos to Ben for a job well done.

A powerful feature of the document is its GeoPDF functionality, which requires the free TerraGo desktop plug-in. Free GeoPDFs donwloads of the original individual quads, in high resoultion, are available from the USGS Map Locator page (http://store.usgs.gov/b2c_usgs/usgs/maplocator/(xcm=r3standardpitrex_prd&layout=6_1_61_50_2&uiarea=2&ctype=areaDetails&carea=0000000009)/.do). With these maps and Ben's, the TerraGo plug-in displays lon/lat and UTM coordinates in text boxes at the bottom right and change as the cursor moves over the map area. Sweet!

One day I may develop a similar application (long for "app":rolleyes:) whereby the fish species present is displayed;) as the cursor moves over a stream. Version 2.0 would display the hatch in progress.:smile:.

JF