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dalerio
07-02-2010, 11:43 PM
who fishes a fly rod shorter than 7 ft. what brand and pro's and cons. i was thinking of trying the 2wt. TFO 6ft. just for brookies. my 7ft. 4 wt. in some places is twice as wide as the water i am fishing.

the problem i see is you would only be fishing the leader and NO fly line? 7.5 leader and 6ft. rod. how do they cast just a leader? well that is what i have been doing all along but i do have some fly line out though. just wondering

and it's always good to get another toy on the other hand.......LOL

Crockett
07-02-2010, 11:54 PM
hey dalerio I fish streams like you describe and I found to my surprise having a longer rod like an 8ft is actually a help in such places. Reason being when you get in really tight with lots of rhodo you wont be able to cast at all no matter if the rod is 6ft or 8ft (even trying to just cast the leader usually won't work and will get you tangled) so how you will end up fishing is just poking the long rod out to a hole or run and dappling the line in the water. A cast will amount to a flip of the rod tip to flip the line ahead 2 or 3 feet. Very similar to Tenkara fishing where they use very long rods with leader at the tip. The extra rod length gives you some leverage and the ability to reach the next hole more easily while staying concealed behind a rock, tree, or ledge. Might even consider a tenkara. I have from time to time but still consider it a bit too strange not having a reel even though I rarely if ever actually use the reel on a stream like you are describing.

Anyway if you just want another toy go for it and give us a report on how the short rod worked. Hopefully others that use the shorter rods on tight streams can tell us how they approach it.

jeffnles1
07-03-2010, 12:57 AM
The shortest rod I own is 8'4". It's a 3wt. All the rest (4, 5, 7 wt.) are all 9' and one is an 8'6".

Like Delario, I have found longer rods work better in the tight streams.

Also, like him, I always find it fun to buy a new toy. (and my loving bride likes it when I help OTHERS buy new toys. :biggrin: )

Jeff

dalerio
07-03-2010, 01:06 AM
hey dalerio I fish streams like you describe and I found to my surprise having a longer rod like an 8ft is actually a help in such places. Reason being when you get in really tight with lots of rhodo you wont be able to cast at all no matter if the rod is 6ft or 8ft (even trying to just cast the leader usually won't work and will get you tangled) so how you will end up fishing is just poking the long rod out to a hole or run and dappling the line in the water. A cast will amount to a flip of the rod tip to flip the line ahead 2 or 3 feet. Very similar to Tenkara fishing where they use very long rods with leader at the tip. The extra rod length gives you some leverage and the ability to reach the next hole more easily while staying concealed behind a rock, tree, or ledge. Might even consider a tenkara. I have from time to time but still consider it a bit too strange not having a reel even though I rarely if ever actually use the reel on a stream like you are describing.

Anyway if you just want another toy go for it and give us a report on how the short rod worked. Hopefully others that use the shorter rods on tight streams can tell us how they approach it.

that is how i have been fishing all along. i just was wondering why the need for a 5-6.5 ft, rod? my rods are 7 4wt. , 8 5wt., 9 5/6 wt. i use in the winter fishing nymphs and streamers also smallmouths almost forgot them. i high stick nymphs in the smokies and dap the dries, so wh then the need for the short sticks.

ever see the heartland series show with the old men using cane poles and flies. can't remember their names. bo-han-nun. he also talked about catching and raising bears for meat. one bout got him feeding it with chained in the barn. also where i seen the georges nymph tied one show.

i was wondering who uses them and what kind and kinda how an why. i read some on it and they say hook sets are harder to get without supersharp hooks. what else is bad about them

Jim Casada
07-03-2010, 06:29 AM
dalerio--I actually think long rods are a significant advantage in tight streams Think more reach for dappling, longer bow-and-arrow casts, easier mends, longer roll casts, and more I go into this matter in great detail in my book and if you own it you might want to read the section covering this subject I'm a staunch believer in longer rods and I'll leave one-weight fairy wands to the hypesters.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

tlshealy
07-03-2010, 02:20 PM
I've read Jim's chapter on Rod's for the mountains, and I agree 100% on the advantages of a long rod on freestone streams, but to add another point of view, I just switched from a 9' 5wt to a TFO 7'6" 3wt and after 2 trips down to the mountains, I love the smaller rod. It's so much easier to cast and high stick all day without my back, shoulder and elbow getting sore, plus it's easier to get around in tight quarters. It doesn't catch more fish, it's just easier to fish with.
Tad

dalerio
07-03-2010, 02:43 PM
tslhealy, thats what i was talkin bout, but i was wondering about the REALLY SHORT rods. i was wondering who all used them short rods and how they liked them good or bad. orvis has one that weighs less than a pair of forceps. i'm thinkin one 18-20in. brown and you would find out bout the warrinity.

also i read they (short rods) stress fish and kill more fish cause they don't have the backbone to horse the fish in.

Troutman
07-03-2010, 03:40 PM
My favorite brookie rod is my little 6.5 ft lamiglass 3 piece. I don't really care for dappling flies over the water as I enjoy the cast. A longer rod of 8-9ft is probably a more efficient tool for the mtns streams, because you can fish so many different ways with ease. the main reason I enjoy the short rod is that its fun! I like to sneak into a position below a pool , check behind me for an open area for a little backcast and make a short cast into the pool. The short rod is easy to maneuver in tight spots and not all that hard to cast a 7-9ft leader with practice. Short rods are very good for fishing dry flies, not so good for nymphing. A dry and dropper work fine.
The point is, no matter what others may say, short rods are usable and can be a blast to fish with. Everyone has an opinion on them. I like them, use them not only for brook trout, but bream and have on occasion, have caught some pretty sizable bass on them.
Most fishermen either love them or hate them. before you commit to buying one, I would spend some time when you on the stream fishing with a longer rod and then take the butt section and reel apart and stick it in your pocket. Fish just the upper two or three sections with just the blank and line. this will give you an idea of what to expect. Don't worry about over stressing a fish by using a short rod. Thats a myth. That topic comes up all the time. I think people throw that out there just to start an arguement on forums.

6.5 ft lami glass

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l114/gltroutman/Camping2009025.jpg

2wt scott on a smokies brookie stream.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l114/gltroutman/SD531667.jpg

19" smallie on a lami 6.5ft 3wt.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l114/gltroutman/Bass09047.jpg

Rog 1
07-03-2010, 04:42 PM
I love the short rods...I have one of the original Orvis one ounce rods that is a 6 1/2 ft 2wt...also have a Diamondglas 6 1/2 3 wt and a 5 ft Cabelas 2wt.....love to fish the Cabelas in Jake's Creek. The others I have fished all over...the two largest trout I have ever caught in the Park have been on my Orvis rod...16" bow and a 14" brown...both were a wild ride.

ifish4wildtrout
07-03-2010, 07:10 PM
I have a 5'2" 4 wt I use in the really small water. It was 5'8" but I broke the tip. It's fine for bow and arrow and dappling, but you really can't cast it more than 10-12 feet.

I use it for streams like this one, when the 7'6" is just a little too big.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n256/fourcats714/fish/dscf0112.jpg

nvr2L8
07-03-2010, 08:51 PM
I fished a 7'9" 4wt for a couple of years and could not imagine something longer on the smaller brookie streams. However, after a lot of listening and reading, I went for a 9' 4wt and like it much better. I have fished it on both Road Prong and Sams Creek and I find it much easier to work with than the smaller rod. I had handled a 9' at LRO and it seemed more like a mile long. But when I tried it on the streams, I much prefer it to the shorter rod. In early June I broke the 9' and finished the day with my shorter rod and the lack of reach really made me want the 9 footer back.

My advise is to find someone who has a shorter rod and is willing to loan it to you for a day. Rod length like most anything is a personal preference and you may find you like the smaller length better. But trying it out before you fork over the bucks to get one might save you regrets later.

dalerio
07-03-2010, 09:56 PM
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n256/fourcats714/fish/dscf0112.jpg
that's my favorite kind of water........

knucklehead
07-03-2010, 10:29 PM
the longest rod i now own is 7'6. i've caught trout from 3-16 inches on it and have no complaints. my main rod is a 7 ft 4 wt bass pro discount special i've had for a couple of years. most of the streams i fish rarely require a cast of more than 20 ft. i've found i can now stay free of lot more trees by using shorter rods, since i primarily stand under them when fishing. i too, believe the short rods are just plain fun to use. they also seem to be very accurate up to about 15 feet. i've done battle with plenty of 6 in specs on an 8 ft beast and sent all of them flying from the hook set. not much fun to me. technically speaking, they probably are worse than the longer ones. but after my brief experiments with them, i've found the short ones truly enjoyable.

lauxier
07-04-2010, 03:35 PM
i use a 7ft 6in bamboo rod built by w. babb,its a 5 wt i also have 4wt 7ft babb,perfectionist taper,a 3wt 7ft6in w.babb,and 7wt 8ft6in babb bamboo rod he called the big gun.use it on the cumberland river...i like longer rods,because they give you options,and you need options in streams that get technical,the streams of the smokys are high tech because the streams of the smokys have got (usually)a canopy,pocket water,riffles,water snakes(they bite)copperheads,rattlers(i hate snakes),bears,tubers(they bite)..for me its about catching fish,and the good feel of bamboo..makes for a natural cast,to wild trout,it does not get any better

WVBrookie
07-04-2010, 03:55 PM
I must be in the minority here. I've caught my fair share of brookies and fished my fair share of "trickles" (but not 60 years worth) and i do just fine with the short rod. ;)

My primary rod of choice is a 6' 1wt Vandalia bamboo. If I fish a stream that I think may have fish larger than 12", I have a 6' 2wt 4-piece Orvis Trout Bum. I also own another 5' 4wt WV-made bamboo and last weekend a friend let me try out his 5' 2wt Diamondglass....talk about light!

I can throw small, cone head buggers with either and I also landed a 27" Idaho bull trout on the Orvis 2wt. :biggrin:

I just think the shorter rod is much nicer when fighting through a rhododendron jungle. The 6' 4-piece rod is also nice for pack trips.

To each his own,
Chris

Jim Casada
07-04-2010, 06:59 PM
Wvbrookie--I pretty much totally disagree, but you nailed it when you suggested that when it comes to rods "to each his own." If the short rods in low weights work for you, that's fine. Still, I will offer a number of points in support of long rods (see below), and I mean really long--nine feet or more. Incidentally, I'm just back from a day on Beech Flats Prong with a 9'6" four weight, and it did just fine--probably 40 fish although admittedly lots of them (mostly specks) were five-inchers. Better still, I caught a Smoky Mountain Slam, which isn't all that unusual in that stream, and had one of those occasional magic moments when I took fish on both the dry fly and the dropper simultaneously. Both were rainbows. It's something I have done a good many times over the years, but I don't think I've ever caught two fish simultaneously of different species. Has anyone here had that pleasure?
Now to what I perceive as some of the advantages of a long rod.
(1) Greater reach in really tight quarters means you can dapple with less likelihood of scaring the pool.
(2) Appreciably more length on bow-and-arrow casts
(3) Appreciably more length on roll casts, which are often the only option in truly tight canopy situations.
(4) It is easier to mend line with a long rod, whether conditions are tight or not.
(5) Greater versatility when high-sticking.
(6) A bit more backbone on those occasions when you need it.
(7) Although someone posted thoughts to the contrary, to my way of thinking there is no question that short, low-weight rods can present the problem of stressing larger fish because of how long it takes to land them. Of course that's a product of other things as well--tippet strength, rod action, skill of the angler, etc.
(8) I simply don't buy the argument about getting through close quarters with a shorter rod being a real advantage. That's true when bushwhacking, but there's an easy answer--break down the rod when you leave the stream That's precisely what I did when I climbed out of Beech Flats Prong back up to 441 today, and I went through about 50 yards of hellish rhodendron before breaking into the open woods.
(9) For the poor boy, and being a son of the Smokies you can rest assured money matters always figure into the equation for me, a longer rod unquestionably has more versatility if you can only afford one or two. Think longer casts in big water, for example.
This entire discussion has been an intriguing one for me, because I have long advocated long rods and consistently have a fair segment of my audiences look at me like I'm loony (at least until I explain). Of course those looks are nothing compared to some I get when I mention "release to grease."
Speaking of which,there are five fish waiting for me to get the skillet hot. Add some new potatoes from my garden (I raise two and this one is at my father's in Bryson City, where I am at present), some of the season's first tomatoes, a pone of cornbread made from stone-ground meal, and blackberry cobbler for dessert from berries I picked yesterday, and I reckon it is fair to say that I'll be living large.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

ifish4wildtrout
07-04-2010, 07:07 PM
I got a double once with 2 species. A rainbow and a chub. Not sure if that really counts since one was a chub, but it was still pretty cool to land 2 at once.

Knothead
07-04-2010, 07:55 PM
My small water rod is a Sevier Tigereye, 6 ft., 2 wt. I built it specifically for the Smokies and a couple of other streams in E. Tennessee. The action seems to be a med-fast and throws the tightest loops of all my flyrods. Accurate, casts to 20 yards with no effort. BTW, fished it on Sam's Creek and caught a nice 12" 'bow with it.

pineman19
07-04-2010, 09:13 PM
Hello Knothead,

I notice you have a Tiger Eye blank. I looked at them last winter, been thinking of building a fiberglass rod, had read a few some good things about them on a fiberglass forum. Would you be willing to share some info on your build? I have pasted my email address if you want to share information there.

Thanks,

Neal
pineman19@yahoo.com

dalerio
07-05-2010, 01:13 AM
i can't believe all the fuss. i just was wondering who uses short rods and you'd think i had asked if your republican or democrat. i had heard there was a fuss or strike indicators so i would never ask that. which i use and don't use by the way. it depends on the place and time. my only little river bow there was white leaves in the water with it up so i tied one on, but that was the first time in the smokys. haven't did it since but if the time was right and there was white leaves in the water i would do it again. right place right time.

thats the point who uses them short rods not wether its what you should do. i personally HATE long rods but they have there place. i don't fish big rivers or care ANYTHING about the size of the fish i catch. caught a minnow on rock creek trib. awhile back. but i caught a fish. and thats the whole point. FISHING not catching. i wouldn't eat a trout if i had to, i don't like them. the fishing some call bluelining takes me back to m childhood playing in the creek, back up on a mountain in eastern ky. and the senery at back either.

the old ways are great but not the only way. and remember the old guys was fishing to eat not spend time away from work. wouldn't awhole lot of long johns back then. as far as money, look we are talkin on $500 or more computers right now with a service fee for the internet and we drive a hour or MORE to fish the smokies with gas the way it is. all the money i have in my rods are less than a $1000 including gear and fly tying stuff. so i think i or we can afford a $100 rod if fishing in tight little creeks for brookies is what we want to do. and i do call em brookies, not specks, am i wrong for doing that. or do i have to call the native char what you or somebody else calls to be right.

now i don't want to change the rods i have. what little i get to spend fishing i don't want to have to learn a new rod, if i had plenty of time that would be different. i just want to fish and have fun. i come on here to learn something new, a different place to go, what is hatching, new flies and live vicariously through other peoples pictures and stories. it is a highlight of my day. this long rod short rod reminds me of TEAM JACOB or TEAM EDWARD and Obama did this, the party of no.

lets just fish...........

Crockett
07-05-2010, 01:47 AM
Dude I think you may be taking this a bit too seriously. Folks are just giving you their opinions to try and help you with experiences they have had. I have seen no one quarelling here at all and I don't think anyone minds in the least if you call them specks, brooks, char, or whatever. This forum is very laid back and most everyone here is just trying to be helpful. By the way what the heck is "team edward and team jacob"?

Jim Casada
07-05-2010, 07:13 AM
dalerio--I think you are missing one of the great delights of this forum; namely, the way it opens up matters for thoughtful discussion. That's precisely what you did when you raised the issue of rod length, and to my way of thinking you deserve kudos for that and certainly don't need to be incredulous about "all the fuss". Indeed, your most recent post raises other intrigung possibilities such as whether folks care about the size of the fish (I think, deep down, virtually every angler likes to catch trophy-siized trout); whether catching fish makes any difference (again, I doubt whether you would continue to fish if you never, ever caught anything); preference for small streams (I share this to a considerable degree, but primarily because they are less likely to be crowded); your view of angling history (I would adamantly disagree that old-timers fished solely in order to catch fish for food); dislike of trout on the table (unless you have had freshly caught specks fried at streamside while adorned in cornbread dinner jackets, I think you've lived a life of culinary deprivation); a deeply rooted love for tradition such as calling brook trout specks happens to be integral to the mountain way of life, and I for one m not aobut to deny my heritage and love for my heartland even though I know outside folks use diferent verbiage; etc. So there you have presented a whole bunch of discussion topics just from your last post.
You seem to have gotten quite upset because yours truly, along with others, had various thoughts they expressed with conviction. We are all too blessed to be stressed, so take this forum for what the dictionary definition of the word will tell you it is--a place for an exchange of ideas and information.
Obviously I somehow upset you, even though I went back and checked to see if I had been in any way immoderate. I don't think I was, and I hope you will take my postings and those of others in the context in which they are offered; namely, as thoghtful information or a search for information and insight.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

silvercreek
07-05-2010, 08:41 AM
I have a couple of really sweet 7 ft bamboo rods which I love to cast in the mountain streams. I'm not into dabbling for trout or bow and arrow casts. I love the feel of the cast. I get half my enoyment just from making the cast which is a good thing because the other half, catching trout, is usually somewhat lacking. For me, the shorter rod that I can cast without whacking the vegetation is my preference. Regards, Silvercreek

fishermen00
07-05-2010, 09:31 AM
ever see the heartland series show with the old men using cane poles and flies. can't remember their names. bo-han-nun. he also talked about catching and raising bears for meat. one bout got him feeding it with chained in the barn. also where i seen the georges nymph tied one show.

i was wondering who uses them and what kind and kinda how an why. i read some on it and they say hook sets are harder to get without supersharp hooks. what else is bad about them


Boy, if someone here could find me a video link for this I would love to see it. I've looked on the internet but can't find it.

Thanks in advance.

BlueRaiderFan
07-05-2010, 10:16 AM
He he...Pandoras box! :biggrin: Good question and lots of fun to read the knowledgable responses. For me, I like a tiny rod when I get to where the laurel is hanging too far over the creek. I can use it to sling shot under the foliage. If I have a clear shot to cast, I like a longer rod. It just depends on how tight it is.

pineman19
07-05-2010, 12:16 PM
Guess I'll jump into the fray :rolleyes: For the majority of my fishing in the Smokies I use a 3/4 9' graphite I built a few years back, or a 8 1/2' 4 weight St. Croix Imperial. I like the longer rods on the bigger streams (Greenbriar, WPLP, Deep Creek, etc.) for one major reason, they are a lot better for high sticking and minimizing drag. I have a 7 1/2 2 weight that I built that I use a fair amount on waters that contain mainly specs and smaller bows. It's good dry fly rod and gives the smaller fish a chance to bend the rod a little. Seems silly to me to use a 5 weight when the average fish is 5-6". I like a little sport when fishing and I still have no problem getting them landed in less than a minute. I have 6 1/2 4 weight, 3 pc Avid that I use on the smaller waters and sometimes larger ones as well just for kicks.

As others have said, it's all about enjoyment and using a rod that fits your style on a particular stream. It's all good as long as we are having fun!

Neal

dalerio
07-05-2010, 02:20 PM
Mr. Casada,

you nor anybody else made me mad. i just was afraid somebody might get mad. i am sorry if it sounded like that. i come back to the post to read about what kind of short rods people are using and how they like them. you actually told "Wvbrookie--I pretty much totally disagree,". i love you guys/gals. you and others in a post about short rods and their use talking against them may make some who do use them not want to respond out of fear of startin something.
also
1)i have a 3month old and had only 6 hr.s sleep in 3 days
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs140.snc4/37343_1515700092176_1224674055_31420057_2927980_n. jpg
2)i had a headache
3)i used to go on a turkey call making web page and people, just went plumb crazy. people ended up spliting off to another site
4)HAVE YOU NEVER HEARD OF TWILGHT the series. my wife has read every book and so on. i am particular to werewolves and i am a conservative/libartarian

the tiger eye blanks, that is the point of the post i have never heard of them before. troutman i love the pic of that smallie. and thanks to everybody for responding.....

jeffnles1
07-05-2010, 05:23 PM
the tiger eye blanks, that is the point of the post i have never heard of them before.

Delario,
My son has a 9' 4/5wt built on a Tiger Eye blank and he just loves it. The action is what I would call medium. It's not fast nor is it slow. For my style of casting, it's just about perfect. Since my son learned casting from me (including too many of my bad habits) it would make sense that he would like a similar action rod to what I use.

The blank is also very pretty and just love the root bear color.

if the one you're looking at is as nice as the one my son has, you'll be happy with it (assuming you like medium action rods).

Hope this helps

Jefrf

WVBrookie
07-05-2010, 07:49 PM
[QUOTE=dalerio;82703]Mr. Casada,

you actually told "Wvbrookie--I pretty much totally disagree," [QUOTE]

Although I've never met Mr. Casada, I have the utmost respect for him and took no offense to that comment. I read his book late last year and was blown away by his knowledge of the subject matter! You also have to respect the amount of time and research he put into it!

However, in my short (< 10 years) of fly fishing I've added a few credentials to my bio and have had a lifetime of experiences myself. I've caught brook trout in 11 different states, and my personal Salmonid species life list is over 15 species (hope to add 11 more later this summer). Like I said, I do OK with my short rod. :biggrin: It's not the size of your tool, it's how you use it.

I just happen to respectfully disagree with the need for a long rod. If everyone enjoyed the same things as I do, the small streams would be a lot more crowded. Hence, to each their own.

I'm sure not going to break my rod down every time the stream gets so rugged that I have to get out of the water to move upstream. Regardless if it is rhododendron on the east coast or fallen timber in the Rockies, it's just not practical.

Chris

dalerio
07-05-2010, 08:18 PM
WVbrookie,

i know but some people get crazy about these things, stupid little stuff. i respect mr. casada always make sure and read anything that he talks about.

WVbrookie or anybody else...

do you overline or underline the rod, shorter than normal leaders, what are any problems or different little things have you noticed with a shorter rod? what about the reduced weight of a small rod. i see some rods are like 2 oz. how would the feel of casting be with say a 5 oz. reel on it?

this is the kind of stuff i was wanting to know.

PeteCz
07-05-2010, 11:29 PM
What ever happened to debating an issue? Isn't that one of the pillars that our country was founded on?

Why is disagreeing with someone (even completely), construed as disrespectful? We all have opinions. Why does it have to be that some are wrong and some are right, or some are good and some are bad...meaningful disagreement is good. Its how all the information about a subject can come to light. We need to not be so afraid to disagree with each other, as long as its in a respectful manner.

As for flyrods, I happen to be on the long side of the argument. I started with an 8'6" and then used 7'6" for a few years on Road Prong, before switching back to a 9' last year. I understand and agree with the argument that the ability to cast is easier with a short rod in some cases, but it's the exception, not the rule. If you look at Dalerio's picture on his "favorite kind of water", I think even Lefty Kreh would have a hard time casting a 2' rod into that area, let alone a 6 footer...Most of our "tight" streams are so choked with vegetation that any length is nearly impossible to cast normally...flip casts, roll casts and dapping are about all we can muster in many tight situations, plus a longer rod will keep more line off the water. So if you are crawling on your knees and the canopy is about 7' over the water, then yes a 6' rod (or less) will be preferable to cast...

BUT, the most important factor is what YOU prefer and what feels good to YOU. If we all agreed, LRO wouldn't need to carry over 300 different flyrods, now would they....:biggrin:

Lastly, I overline my rods in situations where I know I'll be making a lot of short casts. The reason being, is that most flylines are weight rated at a length of 30', so when I'm not going to be casting close to that distance (like in the mountains), I use a heavier line because its easier to load the rod on backcasts (when I can backcast)...

I hope you all disagree with me...This would be a boring forum without a good dose of dissenting opinions...

jeffnles1
07-05-2010, 11:52 PM
Delario,
RE: Overlining
The only rod I overline is my 3wt 8' 4" one when I'm going to be fishing in places where I know I'll be making a lot of short casts. When I go up to a 4wt line, it seems to load better with a short amount of line out. Even then, when I'm fishing streams like the one you showed, I do a lot more flip casts and high sticking than I do casting. I always end up decorating the trees with flies.

One thing I learned, the fly ALWAYS gets stuck about 6" beyond my reach and a 5X or 6X tippet is pretty much useless in pulling a branch down to a point where I can grab it.:smile:

But when it comes to length, weight, and action of rods, it's whatever you feel most comfortable with and what fits the style of casting and fishing you do.

Personally, I like medium to softer action rods and lean toward slightly longish rods (9' and my small stream rod is the above mentioned 8'4" 3wt). But I know plenty of guys who like really fast action rods and I know some guys who like shorter rods. I honestly don't think there is a right or wrong answer. It's kind of like do you like blonds, brunettes or red heads (I'm kind of partial to them all myself), but there really is no wrong answer. Heck, if a guy wanted to use a 12' 11wt rod for brookies, if it worked for him and he was having fun fishing, who am I to say it's wrong. I know a guy who used to hunt deer with a .375 H&H Mag. Gross overkill, but it worked for him.

But for overlining, I do it sometimes and when one is going to be making really short casts the full day, it does help a little but I have not found it to be a magic pill.

Hope this helps.
Jeff

pineman19
07-06-2010, 08:50 AM
"I hope you all disagree with me...This would be a boring forum without a good dose of dissenting opinions... "

Pete, I totally disagree with everything you said in your post and all your previous posts:rolleyes:

America is great!

dalerio
07-07-2010, 01:02 PM
the ultimate short rod....

http://www.jaustinforbes.com/micro.html

30 inches....

Jim Casada
07-07-2010, 01:32 PM
PeteCz--Thank you for putting matters quite nicely. I know better than to expect folks to agree with me on a regular basis, but when I disagree I strive to do it in a congenial, give-and-take fashion. That is the way I feel a forum (not just this one but any forum) should be. Am I sensitive? Sure, especially when someone seems to criticize traditional mountain ways. As an individual with roots running deep in the high country, I am a prickly pear when it comes to criticism of old ways and deep-rooted traditions. You'll find that true of most everyone with a similar background. We can be led by graceful and genial approaches but we won't be forced into much of anything and we don't readily accept dogmatic opinions from outsiders. I'm not saying that's always the right way, but it is a mindset which has served fiercely independent mountain folks well for a long time.
That's enough social analysis, and the truth of the matter is I take personal disagreement pretty well; but I do have just enough introspection to realize I don't take general criticisms of historical traditions at all well.
By all means let's all agree to disagree (nd I'm addressing forum participants in general rather than yoy, but by the same token, keep it gracious and gentlemanly. That makes Paula happy and gives credence to the timeless adage about dong better on matters of persuasion through use of honey rather than by resorting to vinegar.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

dalerio
07-07-2010, 04:08 PM
What ever happened to debating an issue? Isn't that one of the pillars that our country was founded on?

Why is disagreeing with someone (even completely), construed as disrespectful? We all have opinions. Why does it have to be that some are wrong and some are right, or some are good and some are bad...meaningful disagreement is good. Its how all the information about a subject can come to light. We need to not be so afraid to disagree with each other, as long as its in a respectful manner.

BUT, the most important factor is what YOU prefer and what feels good to YOU. If we all agreed, LRO wouldn't need to carry over 300 different flyrods, now would they....:biggrin:

I hope you all disagree with me...This would be a boring forum without a good dose of dissenting opinions...


first post
who fishes a fly rod shorter than 7 ft. what brand and pro's and cons. i was thinking of trying the 2wt. TFO 6ft. just for brookies. my 7ft. 4 wt. in some places is twice as wide as the water i am fishing.

the problem i see is you would only be fishing the leader and NO fly line? 7.5 leader and 6ft. rod. how do they cast just a leader? well that is what i have been doing all along but i do have some fly line out though. just wondering

and it's always good to get another toy on the other hand.......LOL

mr.casada second post


Wvbrookie--I pretty much totally disagree, but you nailed it when you suggested that when it comes to rods "to each his own." If the short rods in low weights work for you, that's fine. Still, I will offer a number of points in support of long rods (see below), and I mean really long--nine feet or more. Incidentally, I'm just back from a day on Beech Flats Prong with a 9'6" four weight, and it did just fine--probably 40 fish although admittedly lots of them (mostly specks) were five-inchers. Better still, I caught a Smoky Mountain Slam, which isn't all that unusual in that stream, and had one of those occasional magic moments when I took fish on both the dry fly and the dropper simultaneously. Both were rainbows. It's something I have done a good many times over the years, but I don't think I've ever caught two fish simultaneously of different species. Has anyone here had that pleasure?
Now to what I perceive as some of the advantages of a long rod.
(1) Greater reach in really tight quarters means you can dapple with less likelihood of scaring the pool.
(2) Appreciably more length on bow-and-arrow casts
(3) Appreciably more length on roll casts, which are often the only option in truly tight canopy situations.
(4) It is easier to mend line with a long rod, whether conditions are tight or not.
(5) Greater versatility when high-sticking.
(6) A bit more backbone on those occasions when you need it.
(7) Although someone posted thoughts to the contrary, to my way of thinking there is no question that short, low-weight rods can present the problem of stressing larger fish because of how long it takes to land them. Of course that's a product of other things as well--tippet strength, rod action, skill of the angler, etc.
(:cool: I simply don't buy the argument about getting through close quarters with a shorter rod being a real advantage. That's true when bushwhacking, but there's an easy answer--break down the rod when you leave the stream That's precisely what I did when I climbed out of Beech Flats Prong back up to 441 today, and I went through about 50 yards of hellish rhodendron before breaking into the open woods.
(9) For the poor boy, and being a son of the Smokies you can rest assured money matters always figure into the equation for me, a longer rod unquestionably has more versatility if you can only afford one or two. Think longer casts in big water, for example.

where does he mention ever using a short in the past and what kind. that is the point, i think maybe i'm wrong. he again makes the point about long rods, a man who wrote a book, a book about fly fishing in the smokies. how many would would consider a short rod after he doesn't use them.

if i made a post asking for pictures of blue jays and someone posted a picture of a crow, but made the argument that he likes crows better would it still be alright.

can we all just let it go. the whole point i was making was people who use long rods was making post IN A POST ASKING WHO USES SHORT RODS. some may have been afraid to post about what they use or got hurt feelings at some. hey i just wanted to know how many on here use the short rods. i don't use them and don't plan on buying one now. but here is the deal, when someone makes and post asking about ocean fishing or fishing with something i don't use i don't make comments unless asked. petez your tag line says it best sometimes its best to keep your mouth shut. i personally wish i had never posted anything, i am not mad BUT didn't want anybody else to be either. dissenting opinions are great when asked for, but can cause trouble when not.....

jeffnles1
07-07-2010, 04:32 PM
Delario,
Certainly no offense meant on my part. In the original post you asked for pros and cons. I, as others, posted personal observation and experience. (pros and cons to short and long rods). I apologize if that's not what you meant.

I really didn't and do not see anything to disagree about. If a fellow is out fishing and having a good time (as long as he's not breaking any laws) it's all good. (short rod, long rod, fiberglass, graphite, bamboo, or just a stick, as long as the person fishing with it is enjoying himself, it's a good thing.)

Jeff

tntom
07-07-2010, 04:41 PM
Well I aint been here in a while so this is as good a place to start as any. I like short rod for the mountains. I have a friend building me a new 6'6" 2wt as we speak. Now dalerio, you have to realize Casada is a writer, he has to give us a list. Now don't get me wrong I realy like his stuff been reading it a long time. I used to love to read his turkey hunting stuff. Now you know I aint a young guy. Anyway if your going to ask questions on a forum you just have to learn to wade through the junk and find the help you are looking for, it's all good.

Tom

dalerio
07-07-2010, 04:41 PM
jeff...

brand pro and cons

tntom
07-07-2010, 04:44 PM
Delario,


I really didn't and do not see anything to disagree about. If a fellow is out fishing and having a good time (as long as he's not breaking any laws) it's all good. (short rod, long rod, fiberglass, graphite, bamboo, or just a stick, as long as the person fishing with it is enjoying himself, it's a good thing.)

Jeff

Now ther's the best answer yet, HAVE FUN!

BlueRaiderFan
07-07-2010, 05:04 PM
I never bought it, but I did cast a sweet Hardy 6ft 6in 3wt, fiberglass, 4pc. Thing was a noodle. Could load up a lot of line on the back cast.

dalerio
07-07-2010, 07:10 PM
i can't believe no one has mentioned the eagle claw rod, it's like $30. bunch that fish SNP swear by the for brookies.

http://www.troutlet.com/Eagle-Claw-Featherlight-Fly-Rods-P217.aspx

nvr2L8
07-07-2010, 08:47 PM
I actually have a 7' 6wt Eagle Claw that I bought probably 35 years ago before I was even close to fly fishing. Never been used. Pretty but I'm not sure what I would use it for.

dalerio
07-07-2010, 11:35 PM
I actually have a 7' 6wt Eagle Claw that I bought probably 35 years ago before I was even close to fly fishing. Never been used. Pretty but I'm not sure what I would use it for.

1) wading stick
2) snake beater
3) flag pole
4) small creek smallmouths
5) hang tarp across it and make emergency shelter/tent

a few options, how is the action on it med,fast,broomstick?

jeffnles1
07-07-2010, 11:36 PM
jeff...

brand pro and cons

Delario,
I see that now, I didn't read it that way in the initial post. Just my error.

For what it's worth, I do like blue jay's slightly better than crows but my favorite is the Indigo Bunting. :smile: Sorry, couldn't resist.

Here's to catching a bunch of fish with whatever rod is in your hand at any given moment.

Jeff

jeffnles1
07-07-2010, 11:39 PM
I actually have a 7' 6wt Eagle Claw that I bought probably 35 years ago before I was even close to fly fishing. Never been used. Pretty but I'm not sure what I would use it for.

Charlie,
I'll add one to Delario's list.
* Send it to Jeff. (I'll be sure to find a good use for it even if I have to use it as a fly rod.

Jeff

Noonan
07-08-2010, 08:09 AM
Dalerio...
I have that 6' 2wt TFO that you mentioned in your original post and took it with me to one of my favorite little streams last weekend...it works.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d924b3127ccefadf42e5500000000030O00AYsmLlw1ZM2 QPbz4M/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
You can sling a lot more line with it than you may expect and it isn't bad for just dapping in a pool. Its a heck of a lot of fun to hook a fish on. The things that I don't like about it are that I can't accurately throw any sort of weight consistently. Its pretty much a dry fly rod only. Also, it is so flexible that it makes it hard to get a good hook set. You feel like you are doing the right thing and you get them on, but you just know they aren't hooked well and they do get free sometimes. I also have the TFO 8' 2wt. It cures the nymph issue, it casts further, gets better hook sets, I can tight line it better and it still gives you one heck of a fight. I use it maybe 3 to every 1 time I use the 6' rod.

It also depends on what kind of mood I'm in...the 6' is fun and challenging and forces me to focus a little more.

Either way, they are both great rods, especially for the money.

PeteCz
07-08-2010, 10:55 AM
can we all just let it go. the whole point i was making was people who use long rods was making post IN A POST ASKING WHO USES SHORT RODS. some may have been afraid to post about what they use or got hurt feelings at some. hey i just wanted to know how many on here use the short rods. i don't use them and don't plan on buying one now. but here is the deal, when someone makes and post asking about ocean fishing or fishing with something i don't use i don't make comments unless asked. petez your tag line says it best sometimes its best to keep your mouth shut. i personally wish i had never posted anything, i am not mad BUT didn't want anybody else to be either. dissenting opinions are great when asked for, but can cause trouble when not.....

None of us own a thread once its started. They sometimes take on a life of their own and get led in directions we never intended. Your original post was asking for folks who fished rods shorter than 7' and what brands, pros and cons. I go it. However, you yourself later on posted pics of water you like fishing and then asked questions about overlining. I was responding to the entire thread, not your original post. If you don't like my comments or aren't interested in them, don't read them, or don't respond...simple as that...

nvr2L8
07-08-2010, 11:05 AM
dalerio,

Regarding the Eagle Claw fly rod I have, being short(er) and a 6wt, there isn't a lot of give to it. Flag pole might be a good use.

Knothead
07-08-2010, 03:28 PM
Eagle Claw? I have a 6-1/2 foot, 5 wt. I got when the old Walmart moved. Got it for $10!!!! Wish I had bought the whole lot! Good rod.

dalerio
07-08-2010, 11:10 PM
Eagle Claw? I have a 6-1/2 foot, 5 wt. I got when the old Walmart moved. Got it for $10!!!! Wish I had bought the whole lot! Good rod.

whats the action like slow,med,fast?
how bout the weight? in pics it looks like a beast....
i read somewhere and don't believe everything i read that its best to overline it like 2 sizes?

tntom
07-09-2010, 12:04 PM
whats the action like slow,med,fast?
how bout the weight? in pics it looks like a beast....
i read somewhere and don't believe everything i read that its best to overline it like 2 sizes?


I have a bunch of fiberglass rods love em. I have a 6'6" Eagle Claw 6wt that is by far not a beast. It's more like a slow 4wt. The great thing about a good glass rod is it will do so many things well. I have a Fenwick FF756 7'6" 6wt made in the early 70's, that I can cast a heavy clouser with and with a 5wt line it will lay a dry fly out as well as any 4wt I ever sene, and a 10" smallmouth is a good fight but it will land fish twice that big with no trouble.
Tom

Apache Trout
07-11-2010, 03:02 AM
On the small wild trout brooks & streams here in Connecticut I fish a 6 foot 3 weight Hardy Glass called "The Brook". I have RIO Selective Trout II 3 wt. line in camo green and a Sage Click III reel on it. Casts great. Love it!
I've taken everything from 6" brookies...
http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy271/Apachetrout/P4181144.jpg?t=1278830880

... to 17" wild browns on it. :-)
http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy271/Apachetrout/P7051204.jpg?t=1278831218

DarrinG
07-11-2010, 07:17 AM
My favorite small-stream outfit is:
Sage DS2 7.5ft 4wt
Lamson Radius 1.5
Cortland 444 "Peach" WF4F

The Sage rod is soft enough to bow-n-arrow cast like a dream but still enough backbone to roll cast wonderfully and if I put a little "Umph" into it with a double-haul, it will throw alot of line in the air if needed. 6" specs feel great on it too.

For small-stream fishing, I'll take a short(er) rod every time.

Troutman
07-11-2010, 09:56 AM
Dalerio, I've got one of those Eagle claw yellow featherlight glass rods. I have the 6'6" 5wt. I would not consider it a good rod for fishing brookie streams with. It is a med action rod, 2 piece butt over tip connection which makes it pretty stiff up to the ferrule and then whippy to the tip. Not a smooth flexing rod by design but for $15 there is has not been a lot of engineering put into it .
It needs another stripper added between the main one and the first guide because of the spacing, you get line to blank slap. The rod fishes best with a 6wt for me so hence , its more of a small bass and bream rod for small poppers rather than a dry fly rod on tight brushy streams. its tough to lay out a soft cast at 10-15 ft distances wit a 6wt line without spooking a pool of wary trout.
I only use it now to decorate the mancave. Its one of the older models with the metal reelseat (no longer made). more of a conversation piece.

I was really surprised to read that so many on here enjoy the shorter rods. So much has been written on the benefits of only using a long fly rod and you rarely read articles by anyone using anything else. I do fish shorter rods of 6-7.5ft quite often and like I said, it is because enjoy them. I do have and fish 9 and even 10 ft rods in the park streams. No one could discount their effectiveness to high stick nymph or dabble a dry fly across multiple currents. Me, I'm not into numbers or sizes anymore when fishing the parks streams. I usually will decide when I get to the stream whether I want to fish dry flies only or if the water conditions or time of year are not favorable to that, I take my long rod and high stick nymphs. If its springtime with the multitude of hatches coming off or summer with beetles and ants in the water, then its an easy choice for me to take the little 6.5 ft 3wt.
Have fun and enjoy whatever you use. :biggrin:

flyman
07-11-2010, 01:45 PM
I have the answer for the plethora of conditions the streams of the Southern Appalachians present. A telescoping rod that can be adjusted to fit any fisherman's preference for any conditions, all for the low price of 2 payments of 79.95 plus shiping.:biggrin:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i206/easterbunny-06/tele.jpg

pineman19
07-11-2010, 03:58 PM
Flyman,

Billy Mays didn't have anything on you :biggrin:

Jim Casada
07-11-2010, 05:59 PM
FLYMAN--You are too much! I think you may have missed your calling (and I don't know what it is). You should be one of the following: (1) Snake oil salesman, (2) Televangelist, (3) Shell game shark, (4) All-round con man.
Incidentally, somewhere in a closet I have one of the rods you picture. Mine is precisely as useful as (1) Mammaries on a boar hog, (2) A .22 rifle for elephant hunting, or (3) 30-pound test monofilament for tippet material.
Thanks for the chuckle.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com

tntom
07-11-2010, 11:43 PM
Apache Trout, what fly is ib the mouth of the 6" brookie?

Tom

Apache Trout
08-21-2010, 09:49 PM
tntom, Sorry for the late reply to your question. Just saw it.
It's a streamer I tied which I named "Officer Max" after my late father who was a police officer & the first person to take me fishing.
I tie it on a size 12 & 14 streamer hooks. Olive thread. Wrap some wire on hook shank for weight. Tan floss over wire. I tie two mallard flank feathers on each side: yellow mayfly over wood duck color. I do a mixed colored beard/throat with a few strands each of red, black & yellow bucktail.
Looks like a juvenile brookie when wet, don't it. Those cannibals love it. ;-)