PDA

View Full Version : There are no fish in Devils Tater Patch Branch, so don't go there.


JoeFred
08-19-2010, 09:33 PM
Really, there are not likely any fish there. I just couldn't resist posting its name.:smile:

Of the streams you have fished in the Smokies, what is the one with the name you like best? ... and, if you know, what is the story behind its name?

All I have on DTPB is that it is named for Devils Tater Patch, a mountain summit in Blount County (4,760 feet). The branch is a miniscule tributary of Mill Creek, the one that feeds Abrams Creek.

JF

2weightfavorite
08-19-2010, 10:17 PM
Im a fan of "Strait Fork". I dont know of too many other oxymoron trout stream names..

Crockett
08-19-2010, 10:56 PM
I didn't fish up it but did fish once near where More Licker Branch comes in to abrams creek. I will definitely have to fish it next time I stumble upon more licker...

Jim Casada
08-20-2010, 07:15 AM
Joe Fred--The place names of the Smokies are endlessly fascinating and offer a splendid example of the verbal ingenuity of the early settlers. Just think of Huggins ****, Breakneck Ridge, Long Hungry Ridge, Charlie's Bunion, Defeat and Desolation branches (you'll feel defeated and certainly be in a desolate area if you manage to reach them), Sweat Heifer Creek (which does hold fish), etc. I recently wrote two columns of place names in Swain County for the local weekly newspaper, the Smoky Mountain Times, and had a grand time doing so.
If you really want a bit of confusion, look into the way Mount Kephart got its name, the fact that it used to be Mount Collins, the fact that Kephart wanted the current Mount Collins to be named after him, and that Kephart Prong used to be Mud Creek.
I never tire of this sort of stuff.

Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com

JoeFred
08-20-2010, 07:45 AM
Jim, I kinda thought this thread would interest you. Care to share about the Curry twosome in the Meigs Creek area?

JF

MBB
08-20-2010, 08:00 AM
I always liked White Man's Glory Creek, a tributary of Forney.

duckypaddler
08-20-2010, 11:00 PM
All I have on DTPB is that it is named for Devils Tater Patch, a mountain summit in Blount County (4,760 feet). The branch is a miniscule tributary of Mill Creek, the one that feeds Abrams Creek.

JF

I don't know how it got its name,but I want to hike up to the Devil's Courthouse.

Ooh and there if a really cool remains of a homestead where Mill creek runs into Abrams. Nice to see spots where people have left alone. Usually there are only pieces leaving you guessing, this place had all the pieces there and it gave you insight into how people lived back then. Much more informative than some of the displays built by the Park Service

Jim Casada
08-21-2010, 07:32 AM
Duckypaddler--Obviously old homesites and other vestiges of the human presence interest you, as they do me. If you get over to the N. C. side of the Park any, there are any number of them which would interest you. Here are a few examples: (1)he old Bock Laney place on Indian Creek (it is pictured in my book). The house is long gone but the chimney still stands, as do huge boxwoods, and the yellowbells (forsythia) bloom every spring. (2) The old CCC Camp on Kephart Prong--lots of foundations, etc. (3) On Noland Creek, you can walk about two miles and find (on your right just before you come to the bridge) a series of pairs of boxwoods leading to a house foundation. A bit more exploration (best done after frost and leaf fall) will reveal a water system pumped into the house from some distance away. Cross that nearby bridge and just to the left up the hill are remnants of the old I. K. Stearns Place. (4) The Calhoun House is, of course, still standing on Hazel Creek, and upstream there are lots of interesting things along the road. (5) ONe I haven't been to, but my brother has, is what might almost be called a railroad graveyard way up at the head of Forney Creek and a bit off the trail. There's an old boiler, still completely intact, and all kinds of pieces of equipment. Again, best examined after the snakes hunt a hidey-hole, although my brother was just there. (6) Don't forget the graveyards. Inscriptions on tombstones tell a great deal, and even the graves marked by nothing more than field stones are interesting. You can begin in the little cemetery adjacent to Park headquarters at Sugarlands. ONe of the markers there has a version of the oft-repeated epitaph, "Stranger as you pass me by, As you are now so once was I . . ." These epitaphs then usually go on with something to the effect of "prepare to die." Interesting but eerie.
All of these remains are poems from the past reaching out to us in the present.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

duckypaddler
08-22-2010, 09:57 AM
Duckypaddler--Obviously old homesites and other vestiges of the human presence interest you, as they do me. If you get over to the N. C. side of the Park any, there are any number of them which would interest you. Here are a few examples: (1)he old Bock Laney place on Indian Creek (it is pictured in my book). The house is long gone but the chimney still stands, as do huge boxwoods, and the yellowbells (forsythia) bloom every spring. (2) The old CCC Camp on Kephart Prong--lots of foundations, etc. (3) On Noland Creek, you can walk about two miles and find (on your right just before you come to the bridge) a series of pairs of boxwoods leading to a house foundation. A bit more exploration (best done after frost and leaf fall) will reveal a water system pumped into the house from some distance away. Cross that nearby bridge and just to the left up the hill are remnants of the old I. K. Stearns Place. (4) The Calhoun House is, of course, still standing on Hazel Creek, and upstream there are lots of interesting things along the road. (5) ONe I haven't been to, but my brother has, is what might almost be called a railroad graveyard way up at the head of Forney Creek and a bit off the trail. There's an old boiler, still completely intact, and all kinds of pieces of equipment. Again, best examined after the snakes hunt a hidey-hole, although my brother was just there. (6) Don't forget the graveyards. Inscriptions on tombstones tell a great deal, and even the graves marked by nothing more than field stones are interesting. You can begin in the little cemetery adjacent to Park headquarters at Sugarlands. ONe of the markers there has a version of the oft-repeated epitaph, "Stranger as you pass me by, As you are now so once was I . . ." These epitaphs then usually go on with something to the effect of "prepare to die." Interesting but eerie.
All of these remains are poems from the past reaching out to us in the present.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

I walked the kids right past the Cemetary near park headquarters (did every paved trail I could find)and while my initial reaction was to run up and check out the graves, I didn't, and now I will definately check them out next time.

Ooh and that boiler def has my interest. I will have to get more specific directions from you.

Since I live in Knoxville, I typically don't get to your side of the park much (except for yesterday when I got on the Raven Fork), but will try to check out these old homesites as they really do interest me. What was so cool about Mill creek was that no one took home most of the stuff, or marked there name on it. You felt like the remains of the homesite had been resting peacifully, Instead of all pawed over by the touristas.

I also have been meaning to e-mail you, which I will try to do now

Rog 1
08-22-2010, 12:00 PM
Porter's Creek...caught my first trout on that creek and it is my son's name...Porter was a family name...my grandfather's grandmother's maiden name....always thought there might be some connection with the creek but not so...the creek is named after one of the surveyors that mapped out the park when it was created...but...this Porter was from Virginia and my Porter was also from Virginia so you never know...makes for a good story.

JoeFred
01-19-2011, 11:55 PM
Some may wish to scroll through my list of over 900 named Park streams (http://www.smokystreams.com), many of which my friend Dick Sellers (member Carolina Kudzu) dug up just recently. For the most part, the blue lines for these appear on USGS quad maps, but not the names. One is called Improvement Branch, which is unlikely to pertain to its fishing quality.:smile:

JF

Jim Casada
01-20-2011, 01:25 PM
JoeFred--Great stuff, and for someone of my bent, at least, very useful. I can add two immediately--Waycaster Branch is a feeder (from the left as you go upstream) of Juneywhank Branch. My father spent his boyhood in the immediate area and that's how I know of this name. Also, the small branch which feeds Deep Creek from the left between Juneywhank Branch and Toms Branch is known as Shytles Branch. I'll share others as I got into your list in more detail.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

Carolina Kudzu
01-20-2011, 10:58 PM
Thanks Jim. I have been working on a project for the Park Service to have a book with as many stream names as I can find to be available at the Visitor Centers. If anyone has any names not on Fred's list, please contact JoeFred or me by this message board. Also, Jim, mentioned in your book and in our conversation at the WNC Fly Fishing Show that you remembered the original name of Ledge Creek was Kaiser Creek. In my research, I have found that Kaiser Creek was the original name of Balsam Corner Creek, and this was confirmed by Jim Mills. I am still checking for previous names of Ledge Creek and other streams in the park.

duckypaddler
01-21-2011, 08:16 AM
Thanks Jim. I have been working on a project for the Park Service to have a book with as many stream names as I can find to be available at the Visitor Centers. If anyone has any names not on Fred's list, please contact JoeFred or me by this message board. Also, Jim, mentioned in your book and in our conversation at the WNC Fly Fishing Show that you remembered the original name of Ledge Creek was Kaiser Creek. In my research, I have found that Kaiser Creek was the original name of Balsam Corner Creek, and this was confirmed by Jim Mills. I am still checking for previous names of Ledge Creek and other streams in the park.

I don't know about adding any streams, but I know that Ramsey's prong, used to be named Buck Fork back in the late 1920's, until the park service changed it:smile:

JoeFred
01-21-2011, 08:53 AM
JoeFred--Great stuff, and for someone of my bent, at least, very useful. I can add two immediately--Waycaster Branch is a feeder (from the left as you go upstream) of Juneywhank Branch. My father spent his boyhood in the immediate area and that's how I know of this name. Also, the small branch which feeds Deep Creek from the left between Juneywhank Branch and Toms Branch is known as Shytles Branch. I'll share others as I got into your list in more detail.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

Thanks, Jim. What a coincidence! Last night I shared with Dick about your additions. Turns out he was in the Juneywhank Branch area yesterday.

JF

Jim Casada
01-21-2011, 09:13 AM
Carolina Kudzu--You are right on Kaiser Creek being the previous name for Balsam Corner Creek. I just got the the two feeders of Straight Fork (Ledge Creek being the other) mixed up. Have you or Joe Fred been in touch with Bobby Kilby? He's done a great deal of piscatorial exploring in the Park.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

NDuncan
01-21-2011, 10:59 AM
I posted this a while ago, but here is a link with a history of mapping the park, going back to the civil war.

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/gmdhtml/...me.html#eusgsm

In this, there is a reasonably detailed topo from 1926 of the "Proposed Great Smoky Mountains National Park" Here (http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/gmd:@filreq%28@field%28NUMBER+@band%28g3902g+np000 172%29%29+@field%28COLLID+npmap%29%29) It's a weird file type so you may have to download a viewer, but it shows the proposed tennessee boundary extending well up into the walland area. Also interesting are the names of the streams in Cattaloochie area. Instead of Palmer Creek, Shanty Branch and Rough Fork they are listed as "Indian Creek, Sugar Branch and Ugly Fork"

http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae158/Nathan_Duncan/Topo/Picture1.png

Over on Forney creek, they couldn't decide which was Bear creek so they just named two streams this (the lower one being Jenny or Jennie branch, now almost totally impounded in fontana) I know that this is mistake because an older topo shows the correct name of Jennie branch.

http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae158/Nathan_Duncan/Topo/Picture2.png

And finally here is one where "Leconte Creek" is named "Mill Creek"

http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae158/Nathan_Duncan/Topo/Picture3.png

Probably some of these name swaps here are due more to the ignorance of the map maker rather than a true name change.

Jim Casada
01-21-2011, 12:59 PM
JoeFred, Carolina Kudzu, and N. Duncan--I'm probably preaching to the choir here inasmuch as you likely have already done this, but you need to get hold of the work of the Nomenclature Committee (Kephart and G. Masa were involved, with others) in the decade or so before the creation of the GSMNP. Lots of name changes there, in part because they tried to avoid repetition. Also, I remember coming across a list of every waterway place name in Swain County somewhere during an Internet search. I think it may have been done by the state of N. C. The map NDuncan uses is one of two or three from that time period (I know there was another one in 1931). However, your best bet, research-wise, is probably the memory of old-timers who know the Park well. Someone mentioned Jim Mills and he's a good source. I got the two names I mentioned from my 101-year-old Dad. His memory is in and out, but on those I'm sure since he's mentioned them many times over the years.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)
P. S. As you've no doubt discovered, USGS maps aren't always total gospel when it comes to accuracy.

JoeFred
01-21-2011, 08:55 PM
JoeFred, Carolina Kudzu, and N. Duncan--I'm probably preaching to the choir here inasmuch as you likely have already done this, but you need to get hold of the work of the Nomenclature Committee ...

Thanks, Jim. Carolina Kudzu would need to confirm, but I'm pretty sure his resources include the work of the Nomenclature Committee.

JF

Carolina Kudzu
01-22-2011, 12:18 AM
Yes, JoeFred, I have a copy of the 1932 Nomemclature Map. The GSMNP policy is that if a stream name apprears on a quad map published after this date, they go with the name on the quad map as the correct name of the stream. Many were changed due to duplication of names in the park, but a quad later picked up the original name.

Thunderhead8
01-22-2011, 09:44 AM
I think that Snag Branch could be the name of every stream I have fished in the Smokies!

JoeFred
01-24-2011, 09:55 AM
Funny stuff, Thunderhead8 & Owl. There are these...
Bluff Branch, Defeat Branch, Chokeberry Branch, Crying Creek, Duds Branch, Dunn Creek,

For the better days there are Ace Creek, Breakfast Branch, Dancing Branch, etc.

And depending on your perspective... Hammer Branch :biggrin:

JF

Crockett
01-24-2011, 01:03 PM
JoeFred--Great stuff, and for someone of my bent, at least, very useful. I can add two immediately--Waycaster Branch is a feeder (from the left as you go upstream) of Juneywhank Branch. My father spent his boyhood in the immediate area and that's how I know of this name. Also, the small branch which feeds Deep Creek from the left between Juneywhank Branch and Toms Branch is known as Shytles Branch. I'll share others as I got into your list in more detail.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)


Just out of curiosity Jim have you fished Waycaster, Juneywhank, or Shytles Branch and are there trout in any of those? I have often wondered also what Tom's branch looks like above the falls have you been up there? I would assume there are no fish up there.

JoeFred
01-31-2011, 11:07 AM
Adam, It's likely Carolina Kudzu can answer for some of these streams. I am meeting him in Waynesville Thursday and will ask him.

JF

highpockets
01-31-2011, 04:43 PM
I used to fish at a place called "Victor's". A man named "Victor" was a driving force in saving the streams near his home with his own silt catching invention; it worked great. And it made awesome holes for the Brookies to sit in and gobble food; sometimes my food! ;-)

JoeFred
03-11-2011, 09:31 AM
Great story. Where's there's a way, there's a Victor. :smile:

It's not in the Smokies, but here's a name that showed up while doing the Clinch River map. It's a small tributary entering just down stream of Clinton.

Dismal Creek :redface:

JF

Jim Casada
03-12-2011, 04:56 PM
Adam--E-mail me (jimcasada@comporium.net) and I'll give you insight on what I know about these little branches.
Jim Casada

Crockett
03-13-2011, 12:02 AM
Adam--E-mail me (jimcasada@comporium.net) and I'll give you insight on what I know about these little branches.
Jim Casada

Message sent Jim thanks...