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lexfly
09-24-2010, 02:01 PM
Try not to make too much fun of me here. :smile: I'm taking a backcountry trip in Oct. with some friends. Our plans are to go to Sawdust pile as 83 and 84 are closed. Some of the guys I am going with are not in good shape and have carts as opposed to strapping on a pack and walking (bad back, strained uterus, etc.). My question is: if for some reason Sawdust pile gets closed between now and then, what are some other possible sites that a person with a cart could get to on the NC side? I've looked at the fish camp spreadsheet and so I have an idea of elevation etc., but I don't have experience with the other creeks so don't know about the trails (i.e., is it wide enough, too rocky etc.) for Eagle, Forney, Noland etc. Thx in advance.

Jim Casada
09-24-2010, 04:07 PM
Lexfly--You would still have one option on Hazel Creek, and it's the one most of the outfitters use, the lower Hazel Creek campsite (the name is Proctor but I don't know the number). On Noland Creek, the Bear Pen Branch campsite (which isn't actually on Bear Pen Branch) is only a mile or so from the trailhead/parking lot). There's a bit of a climb right at the start, although nothing particularly bad, and you are walking in a gravel road. Getting to Forney Creek would be an issue (no shuttle and a longish way from any commercial boat dock), but if you have boats I would actually recommend it. Either of the two lower campsites should work (Lower Forney or the old CCC camp).
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

lexfly
09-24-2010, 04:46 PM
Jim,
Thanks for the info. As always you are a fountain of information. We have a boat, but I don't know that I could convince my friend to leave it at the mouth of Forney creek. I learned to fly fish on Noland and Deep Creek (on summer vacation with my father) but have not been back to in several years so couldn't recall what the trail was like. Noland will probably be the destination if we are unable to go to Hazel. I don't really want to stay at the lake with the outfitters. I prefer the solitude. Maybe having the 2 sites closed on Hazel will be a good thing. thanks again.

NDuncan
09-24-2010, 04:54 PM
If you have the boat, what about moving over one stream the other way and hit eagle creek? I haven't been there, but you could possibly stay at 90 which looks to be close to the lake without having to carry your gear far, or move in a little ways to 89 (which unlike 90 doesn't allow horses), but since it is not a horse trail, I don't think you could get the carts up there. I think Jim's book he says that it doesn't receive a whole lot of pressure...which may be good for the solitude factor. But, in Oct you may get to hit the lake run trout coming into Eagle creek.

lexfly
09-27-2010, 01:10 PM
Eagle would be my first preference, in fact that is where I wanted to go instead of Hazel, but being with friends is important too so I can do that another time. I'd rather get away from the lake on Hazel than be next to the lake on Eagle. Anyway about it, I will be in the mountains in a couple weeks and as always I really can't think about anything else. :smile:

GrouseMan77
09-27-2010, 05:12 PM
Don't forget that the lake levels are dropping and there might be a bit of a climb to the trailhead. The banks will probably be a little muddy as well. Nothing like trying to drag a bunch of gear up hill through red clay.

spotlight
09-27-2010, 05:35 PM
(bad back, strained uterus, etc.).

WTF is a strained uterus?

Crockett
09-27-2010, 09:18 PM
WTF is a strained uterus?

Something you pick up in the monroe county jail I think

lexfly
09-30-2010, 01:22 PM
I was just making a not so subtle jab at my friend who doesn't want to put a pack on his back and walk by suggesting he has girl parts. :smile:

spotlight
09-30-2010, 07:22 PM
Too funny....:biggrin:

Mundele
09-30-2010, 10:06 PM
Something you pick up in the monroe county jail I think

Not speaking from personal experience are ya Adam? :)

spotlight
09-30-2010, 11:06 PM
Not speaking from personal experience are ya Adam? :)


Ouch dude.....:eek:

Oldman
10-01-2010, 02:54 PM
Correct me if I am wrong but I thought that Hazel was the only creek in which carts are allowed.

Jim Casada
10-02-2010, 12:22 PM
Oldman--Nope, they are allowed on a couple of other drainages on the North Shore. I didn't know this until I stumbled over it somewhere in the Park's labyrinthine regulations. The fishing regulations are the essence of simplicity but the backcountry usage regs are extraordinarily complex, a situation which is not helped a great deal by phones which go unanswered or are constantly busy, and additionally troubling is what to me at least is a web presence which is exceptionally difficult to navigate.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

Oldman
10-03-2010, 04:35 PM
I found the reg under the Rules and Regulation for the GSMNP. Section 1.5(a)(2). Says Hazel, Noland (only up to cs#64 only 4 miles up) and Forney(only up to cs#74 which is at the mouth). So with the exception of Noland and only at the mouth of Forney, they are not allowed except anywhere on Hazel. Also, it gave a maximun LH and W requirement which is 48"L,24"W and 18"H.

Thanks Mr. Casada I learned something today.

GrouseMan77
10-03-2010, 05:01 PM
Thanks for pointing this out. I was also under the impression that Hazel Creek was the only stream where carts are allowed.

Jim Casada
10-03-2010, 06:18 PM
Jason--I think most everyone thinks that Hazel Creek is the only cart creek. Noland actually lends itself quite nicely to "buggy" usage. About the only steep grade all the way up to the Mill Creek area comes right at the start (when the eager camper is as frisky as he'll ever be).
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)
www.jimcasadaout (http://www.jimcasadaout)

JoeFred
10-06-2010, 10:56 PM
Don't forget that the lake levels are dropping and there might be a bit of a climb to the trailhead. The banks will probably be a little muddy as well. Nothing like trying to drag a bunch of gear up hill through red clay.

On the new Trails Illustrated Map (No. 316) a note appears next to Fontana Lake which reads "Lake shorelines may vary 0.5 mile seasonally."
Since the TVA web site states that the reservoir provides 238 miles of shoreline and it appears there are only a few places where it is over 0.5 mile wide, I'm having trouble getting my head around the note.

Can someone explain what it means?

JF

spotlight
10-06-2010, 11:25 PM
It's simple TVA drops the lake therefore it makes more shoreline we paddled to 90 on Eagle Creek this past weekend we had to walk about 0.5 mile to get to the campsite up a steep muddy bank. 2 months ago we were there and paddled right to the site. hope I answered your question.

JoeFred
10-06-2010, 11:41 PM
Thanks, spotlight. That was the only way I was coming up with a 0.5 mile change. Whereas they most certainly stated it in correct technical terms, I was thinking the wording might have been something like "lake feeder streams may extend 0.5 miles more in length seasonally," but I am admittedly more of creek bed kinda thinker than a shoreline kinda thinker." Then there are the lake half empty and lake half full type thinkers.:rolleyes:

JF