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David Knapp
11-01-2010, 12:09 PM
The discussion on stocker versus wild trout in another thread gave me an idea. I'm posting 6 pictures of rainbow trout. Reply with which ones you think are stocked and which ones you think are wild. I'll post the answers in a couple of days.

#1
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk311/drknapp83/PB247120-1.jpg


#2
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk311/drknapp83/IMG_8692.jpg


#3
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk311/drknapp83/IMGP4936.jpg


#4
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk311/drknapp83/IMGP4407-2.jpg


#5
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk311/drknapp83/IMG_1994.jpg


#6
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk311/drknapp83/IMGP4809.jpg

duckypaddler
11-01-2010, 12:15 PM
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in the court of trout:biggrin:

Hopefully you will stump some of the best of them:smile:

Are holdovers wild? or at least for this contest

David Knapp
11-01-2010, 12:40 PM
Holdovers are not wild in this contest...:biggrin:

Crockett
11-01-2010, 12:41 PM
David is this a trick question they aren't all wild or all stocker right hehe? I am pretty uneducated on detecting this but if I had to guess I would say maybe 3,4, and 5 are the stockers and the rest are wild. Just going by gut feeling mostly and I am pretty torn on #3.

buzzmcmanus
11-01-2010, 01:15 PM
1, 2, and 6 wild
3, 4, 5 stockers

And, my reasoning has nothing to do with fish coloration. 1 and 2 look to be on the small size for them to be stockers. 3 and 5 look to have small tippets and can't see fly (probably a midge), so they are stockers. 4's background doesn't look like the bank I normally see where wild trout are. The facial expression on fish 6 looks as though it is wondering how it was fooled by a fly, and that's not something a stocker would do.

As you have figured out, these are just random *** guesses.

gmreeves
11-01-2010, 01:25 PM
This is going to be a fun game!

1. Wild
2. Stock
3. Wild
4. Stock
5. Stock
6. Wild

Streamhound
11-01-2010, 01:36 PM
1. Stock
2.Wild
3.Stock
4.Wild
5.Stock
6.Wild

Grannyknot
11-01-2010, 01:38 PM
My guesses:
1. Wild
2. Wild
3. Stock
4. Wild
5. Stock
6. Wild

lexfly
11-01-2010, 01:47 PM
1 Wild
2 Wild
3 Stock
4 Stock
5 Wild
6 Stock

NDuncan
11-01-2010, 02:03 PM
My guesses
1 Wild
2 Stock
3 Stock
4 Wild
5 Stock
6 Wild

Although I have to admit, I was thinking along the lines of Crockett... and wanted to guess that they were all one or the other...

MadisonBoats
11-01-2010, 02:45 PM
Without knowing where they are caught; I would guess that all of them are potentially wild trout. I cannot see any discerning indicators on any of the fish pictured that would flag them as first-generation hatchery trout.

The orange in the gills and white bands on the fins lead me towards native trout.

Wilson10
11-01-2010, 03:23 PM
My guess:
1. Wild
2. Wild
3. Stock
4. Stock
5. Stock
6. Stock

gmreeves
11-01-2010, 04:15 PM
Without knowing where they are caught; I would guess that all of them are potentially wild trout. I cannot see any discerning indicators on any of the fish pictured that would flag them as first-generation hatchery trout.

It is definately tricky and figuring out which ones are possibly stockers is basically a guess. They aren't fresh out of the truck, thats for sure.

Stana Claus
11-01-2010, 04:40 PM
One of my old high school teachers (a long LONG time ago) once gave us a True/False test where all of the answers were True. People couldn't believe that there were no False answers so started over-analyzing things and changing their answers. Afterwards, he told us that it was an exercise in having confidence in your initial appraisal of the situation. That said, I'm going with - they are ALL wild.

GrouseMan77
11-01-2010, 05:03 PM
I think that all of them, with the exception of #3, are "wild" trout and I'm not real sure why I'm questioning #3.

WVBrookie
11-01-2010, 06:16 PM
A couple of things I look for in a wild rainbow are par marks and an orange tint to the pectoral/pelvic fins - then again I haven't caught a stocked fish in years.

With that in mind, here are my guesses:
wild - par marks
wild - par marks
stocker - no features
wild - tough to tell by the photo, but appears to have par marks
wild - tough to see par marks, but has an orange coloration on the fins
wild - again, tough to see in the photo, but appears to possibly have par marks near the tail - could go either way on this one.
Chris

doghaircaddis
11-01-2010, 09:24 PM
My guesses:

1. Wild
2. Wild
3. Stocked
4. Stocked
5. Stocked
6. Wild

jeffnles1
11-01-2010, 11:55 PM
without knowing where they were caught, there's no way to really say for sure and even then, I believe it would be very difficult.

#3 sure has been eating well.

Not all of them look like Smoky Mountain wild trout, but I've caught some wild rainbows out west that looked a lot like some of these fish.

Without knowing the full story, I'd guess all of them could be wild. On the ohter hand, it's possible they could all be stocked.

If I had to guess
4 stocker
6 stocker
1, 2, 3, 5 wild.

but, hey, I've been wrong before and most likely will be wrong again assuming the good Lord allows me to live another day.

Jeff

Maurer
11-02-2010, 03:50 AM
I think the whole argument on wild versus stocker is a little silly. I don't really care as long as it puts a good bend in my rod. Dave all those fish look great and I bet they were fun.

Anyways, I'll play your game. I bet they are all stockers! Even if they were not stocked this year they are all decendents of stockers! Cause rainbows are only native west of the rockies. So, what do I win?

They are definately not native, the only native trout to this area is the Brooke trout.

My favorite trout is the brown trout when he or she is gettin all nasty on a giant articulated streamer!

David Knapp
11-02-2010, 09:39 AM
I think the whole argument on wild versus stocker is a little silly. I don't really care as long as it puts a good bend in my rod. Dave all those fish look great and I bet they were fun.


You win just for getting my point...:biggrin: Seriously, I think its a little silly as well, but I am curious now to see how others respond on this so I'll wait another day or two before posting the correct answers. Keep the answers coming everyone...:smile:

Wilson10
11-02-2010, 10:37 AM
This was a trick question seeing how God stocked all fish.... :)

calebB
11-02-2010, 10:42 AM
Tough one David...

I say 1 and 2 are wild, with 3-6 all being stocked. I could see 5 possibly being wild. This just shows how much variance there are in fish. And how, given time and proper conditions, stocked fish can take on much of the physical characteristics of wild fish.

Caleb

buzzmcmanus
11-02-2010, 11:16 AM
Just think how easy this would have been if ifishforwildtrout would have started it?

Bran
11-02-2010, 11:20 AM
1. Wild
2. Stock
3. Wild
4. Stock
5. Wild
6. Stock

MBB
11-02-2010, 11:23 AM
My thought is that 1 is wild and the rest are stockers.

The real difficulty is with tailwater trout, particularly if they are stocked as fingerlings. The tailwater trout grow so fast in their new enviornment that they can be virtually indistinguishable from wild trout. In my opinion, as far as fighting ability and quality experince goes, there is no distinction between a wild trout and a stocker that has been in there at least a year or more.

ZachMatthews
11-02-2010, 11:31 AM
Look for pectoral and anal fin scarring from holding in concrete tanks.

The only fish that might be wild is #2, but I believe these were all stocked.

Zach

Knothead
11-02-2010, 11:58 AM
Before I answer, what is first prize?

BlueRaiderFan
11-02-2010, 01:08 PM
All stocked. Bows don't occur in Tennessee naturally.

kentuckytroutbum
11-02-2010, 01:47 PM
I'm with Maurer on this one, it doesn't matter to me whether they are stockers or wild, both fight equally well, and they look great sitting next to some veggies on a plate. ;)

Bill

gmreeves
11-02-2010, 02:49 PM
I'm with Maurer on this one, it doesn't matter to me whether they are stockers or wild, both fight equally well, and they look great sitting next to some veggies on a plate. ;)

Bill

They may look great sitting next to some veggies but they taste different. ;)

kentuckytroutbum
11-02-2010, 03:02 PM
Sounds like we need Bobby Fley, of Iron Chef fame, to do a "throwdown" with both stockers & wild trout, and then we can decide which tastes better. :cool:

Bill

gmreeves
11-02-2010, 04:17 PM
That's funny.

doghaircaddis
11-02-2010, 08:13 PM
I have to say, #3 has Caney Fork written all over it.

Oldman
11-02-2010, 09:11 PM
Tough choices. However, my guess and thats all it is would be

1)Wild
2)Wild
3)Tailwater wild
4)stocker
5)Wild
6)One fat wild (too much white on the fins to be stocker)

Nice post by the way.
I have and love catching wild trout in hatchery supported waters. It seems a lot of folks overlook this fishery. Here lately with all the scientific and environmentaly concerned folks about, most all states are now stocking triploid trout that have a reproductive rate of only 2 or 3%. Just thought I would throw that out yonder amongst youins.

Bfish
11-02-2010, 09:13 PM
1-6 all stockers

spotlight
11-02-2010, 10:07 PM
#1 and #6 are wild the rest are stockers.

BigMax
11-03-2010, 09:07 AM
no one has said all wild so i will:confused:

1-6 wild

Scott H.
11-03-2010, 02:10 PM
Not sure, but I'll play your little game.

I am going to say 1,2, 6 are wild.

Rainbow Warrior
11-03-2010, 03:15 PM
I think 3 and 5 are stocked and the rest wild. #2 is a hard one though because it looks like it could be a stocked fingerling. :confused:

BlueRaiderFan
11-03-2010, 04:40 PM
They are neither stocked nor wild. All are plastic replicas. That is all.

Jim Casada
11-03-2010, 05:11 PM
Plateau Angler--You may have already posted the answers. I've been away for a few days deer hunting (some deer died). I think they are all wild, although I would like a slightly better photo of #2 so I could see the dorsal fin better, and #6 could have been a bit sharper. That being said, in the case of #2 both its size and the thumbnail marks along the flank say wild. So, in short, I think they are all wild. If you want reasons for my thinking, they are varied but the white edging to fins is one key consideration and gill plate coloration another.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

Jim Casada
11-03-2010, 05:15 PM
Maurer--Interesting point about all being descendants of stockers, so stream-bred might have been more accurage. You are wrong about specks being the only native trout in the Smokies. Can you tell me why? Maybe that will add a bit of zest to this fine thread.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

ifish4wildtrout
11-03-2010, 06:26 PM
Maurer--Interesting point about all being descendants of stockers, so stream-bred might have been more accurage. You are wrong about specks being the only native trout in the Smokies. Can you tell me why? Maybe that will add a bit of zest to this fine thread.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

There are no native trout in the Smokies, but there are native char.

JoelO
11-03-2010, 07:10 PM
I agree completely with Buzz and his reasoning. I think 1, 2 & 6 are wild...part of my reasoning, like Buzz's, was based on the surroundings and not the fish. Number 6, I thought, might be wild because of the white tips on its fins.

Jim Casada
11-03-2010, 07:38 PM
ifish4wildtrout--Right you are on the char.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

Stana Claus
11-03-2010, 11:05 PM
no one has said all wild so i will:confused:

1-6 wild

Check post #14.

JayB
11-04-2010, 09:49 AM
out of 27 voters:
#1 23/27 or 85% think wild
#2 19/27 or 70 % vote wild
#3 only 7/27 or 26% think wild
#4 10/27 or 37% wild
#5 10/27, 37% vote wild
#6 in third place, 18/27 vote wild, 67%.

David Knapp
11-04-2010, 10:01 AM
Anyone else want to take a guess? I'll be posting the answers shortly...

Jim Casada
11-04-2010, 10:52 AM
Plateau Angler--I would suggest, when you provide the answers, that you also provide your definition of "wild." For some it will mean a stream-born trout, but a solid argument can be made for fish stocked as fingerlings (or even as eggs, although I don't know of that having been done in this part of the world). You could also term a holdover trout "wild" inasmuch as it has adjusted to its enviorment completely and lives as a wild fish. There are other parameters too, but I'm just requesting that you give yours (and the locations where the fish were caught--that will be part of the tale).
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

BlueRaiderFan
11-04-2010, 10:54 AM
There are no native trout in the Smokies, but there are native char.


So, you call it a Brook Char? Technically a rainbow is a Pacific Salmon, but noone calls it that.

gmreeves
11-04-2010, 11:04 AM
It goes back to the latin or scientific names and classifications of the salmonid family. Char are from the Salvelinus genus and the majority of the trout are from the Onchorynchus genus and then there is the brown trout which actually comes from the Salmo genus which includes Atlantic Salmon. There are actually pacific salmon and pacific trout in the Onchorynchus genus. The pacific salmon are salmon like a sockeye or chum salmon but a rainbow is considered a pacific trout. What is in a name? It is all about as important as if a fish is stocked or wild but it is still fun to think about.

BlueRaiderFan
11-04-2010, 01:06 PM
It goes back to the latin or scientific names and classifications of the salmonid family. Char are from the Salvelinus genus and the majority of the trout are from the Onchorynchus genus and then there is the brown trout which actually comes from the Salmo genus which includes Atlantic Salmon. There are actually pacific salmon and pacific trout in the Onchorynchus genus. The pacific salmon are salmon like a sockeye or chum salmon but a rainbow is considered a pacific trout. What is in a name? It is all about as important as if a fish is stocked or wild but it is still fun to think about.


Agreed. Hope my post didn't come off cranky. Hard to get a point in without sounding like a jack wagon.

gmreeves
11-04-2010, 01:25 PM
Nope. Not at all. That's why I just like to go fishin' and not get too technical. It can get way too deep and then you turn into that guy.:biggrin:

BlueRaiderFan
11-04-2010, 04:55 PM
Nope. Not at all. That's why I just like to go fishin' and not get too technical. It can get way too deep and then you turn into that guy.:biggrin:


Ain't smart enough to be that guy :biggrin:

ifish4wildtrout
11-04-2010, 06:34 PM
Agreed. Hope my post didn't come off cranky. Hard to get a point in without sounding like a jack wagon.

I was just answering Mr. Casada's trivia question. I call them brook trout.

I really could give a rat's rear end what they are called, I just like hunting and capturing wild brooks, rainbows, and browns.

pineman19
11-04-2010, 07:32 PM
Caught this Bow in the Smokies on November 1st at one of the most popular campgrounds.

Neal

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii103/whiteoak78/Bradley%20Bow%2011-1-10/IMGP0019.jpg

Jim Casada
11-04-2010, 08:50 PM
Pineman19--Looks liked a stocked fish to me. It it was in the Smokemont area, I regularly caught fish in Luftee and Bradley Fork this summer that had made their way upstream from Reservsation waters.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

BlueRaiderFan
11-04-2010, 08:52 PM
I was just answering Mr. Casada's trivia question. I call them brook trout.

I really could give a rat's rear end what they are called, I just like hunting and capturing wild brooks, rainbows, and browns.

Ok, sorry if you felt called out (if you did). Just wanted to comment on your thoughts. No offense was meant.

pineman19
11-04-2010, 08:57 PM
Pineman19--Looks liked a stocked fish to me. It it was in the Smokemont area, I regularly caught fish in Luftee and Bradley Fork this summer that had made their way upstream from Reservsation waters.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

Jim,

It was a sluggish fighter considering it's size and weight, it started to wake up a little and head downstream, but it was in shallow water and I was able to slide it up on the bank. I caught it near the trailhead.

Neal

David Knapp
11-04-2010, 09:24 PM
Okay, here are the answers about these fish. I chose fish that I was positive about due to the location they were caught. As far as I am concerned, native fish refer to fish that are naturally occurring in a body of water without any assistance from mankind and have been that way since before modernity. Wild trout are stream reared fish that have descended from stocked fish at some time in the past. Stocked trout are any fish that have been raised in a hatchery for the initial portion of their lives before being transferred to the body of water they were caught in.

That being said, there was at least one correct response. Trout #1 was definitely a wild fish, caught on the Little River upstream of Elkmont.

Trout #2 was a stocked fish and possible the most recent of all the stocked fish. It was stocked as a part of the winter stocking program for Byrd Lake in Cumberland Mountain State Park and had only been in the lake for no more than one month at the time it was caught.

Trout #3 was also a stocked fish and was caught on the Caney Fork. It most likely was not in the river more than 3 months or so before being caught but that is admittedly speculation on my part.

Trout #4 was a wild trout caught on the Little River upstream from Metcalf Bottoms during a great Light Cahill hatch the day of Troutfest.

Trout #5 was caught on the Caney Fork River and was a fairly recent stocker based on location and the fact that it was schooling with other stockers near the stocking point.

Finally, as most figured, trout #6 was a wild fish, also caught on the Little River somewhere between Metcalf and Elkmont.

One of the things that constantly impresses me is the quality of the stocked trout in Tennessee. That is NOT a blanket statement as I have caught stockers that look downright terrible, but overall, they fish I catch, even the recent stockers look anywhere from ok to great.

Anyways, thanks to everyone who played along. I think the main point for me is that I'm just thankful to get out on the water and catch some fish in a beautiful setting. So far, I have not found any ugly trout streams so I'll keep going and enjoying whatever fish I happen to catch, even if they originated as stocked trout.

Flyrod
11-04-2010, 09:26 PM
1.Wild
2.Wild
3.Stock
4.Stock
5.Stock
6.Wild

Crockett
11-04-2010, 10:09 PM
Thanks for the game David that was a lot of fun. Felt like I was fishing from my couch. I didn't get the big prize but I think gmreeves maybe hit it. Seriously we should do more of this kind of thing on here it helped to educate me about the differences too.

gmreeves
11-04-2010, 10:31 PM
Nope. I didn't hit it. I think I missed two of them. It was fun to play along though.

Oldman
11-05-2010, 06:38 AM
I failed. When is the retest? How about a field trip?:biggrin:

David Knapp
11-05-2010, 08:05 AM
I like the idea of a field trip...of course, the fully experience the differences between wild and stocked fish, we'll all have to visit many streams...:biggrin:

NDuncan
11-05-2010, 10:10 AM
I got them all right! What do I win? J/K. This has been a fun thread.

jeffnles1
11-05-2010, 06:21 PM
I'm all in for the field trip. When, and can one of you guys talk my wife into signing the permission slip?

Jeff

ZachMatthews
11-05-2010, 09:12 PM
I'm surprised, as every fish seemed to have scar tissue on the anal fin if not on the pectorals. I will need to re-examine some shots of fish I had assumed were stocked; evidently that white leading edge on the anal fin is not necessarily indicative of scar tissue.

Zach

spotlight
11-05-2010, 10:23 PM
Great post David! I was lucky I missed one number #4 and I should have known by the vegetation....my bad I am impressed that I did that well. I have seen enough of those Elkmont trout to know what they look like....:biggrin:

Scott H.
11-05-2010, 10:44 PM
Kevin. I missed #4 also.

For some reason I thought #2 was wild as well.
Should have known on that one.

Lots of fun.


Scott

spotlight
11-05-2010, 11:05 PM
I should have studied a bit more. I decided not to back pack this weekend I may fish on Sunday if it warms a bit water levels are perfect for catchin big uns!

elkhaircaddis
11-07-2010, 03:00 PM
if you are fishing a tailwater, do you ever truly know if the fish is wild or stocked? Especially tailwaters like chilhowee dam that have had trout for 60-70 years?

pineman19
11-07-2010, 03:02 PM
Does it really matter? If they bend your rod and make your day, who cares.

Neal

elkhaircaddis
11-07-2010, 03:05 PM
dont matter to me, except the flavor is better on the river born fish

GrouseMan77
11-07-2010, 07:42 PM
Does it really matter? If they bend your rod and make your day, who cares.

Neal

+1.

I should have put a little more effort into my guesses.

pineman19
11-08-2010, 11:55 PM
Imagine that, a smart aleck comment from Mr. Elkins. Glad you enjoyed:rolleyes:

Neal

GrouseMan77
11-09-2010, 08:11 PM
Imagine that, a smart aleck comment from Mr. Elkins. Glad you enjoyed:rolleyes:

Neal

Ummmm, I was agreeing with you Pineman. And, was making a separate statement about my poor attempt at guessing wild v. stocked.

I hope I'm not developing a bad reputation?

pineman19
11-09-2010, 08:22 PM
Hmmm, I guess I misunderstood, older middle-age is a bear. I sometimes have trouble understanding the new lingo:eek: As far as bad reputations, I doubt you'll ever surpass me:cool:

Neal

GrouseMan77
11-09-2010, 08:27 PM
Hmmm, I guess I misunderstood, older middle-age is a bear. I sometimes have trouble understanding the new lingo:eek: As far as bad reputations, I doubt you'll ever surpass me:cool:

Neal

No problem. I always worry about how things come across in written communication. Some times humor doesn't translate. Everyone from Luttrell has a reputation.:p

nvr2L8
11-09-2010, 09:44 PM
Cherokee Lake , Morristown, Tennessee





This is a darn interesting picture and story even if you aren't into fishing,
But please show it to anyone you know that likes to fish.
FYI: This sturgeon is still alive, just worn out from the fight.
As the sports fishermen they are, they turned him loose after the photo.




http://65.55.72.215/att/GetInline.aspx?messageid=f3baac05-ec08-11df-a9bf-00215ad7e8bc&attindex=0&cp=-1&attdepth=0&imgsrc=cid%3a1.1203134945%40web59915.mail.ac4.yaho o.com&hm__login=bartonca&hm__domain=hotmail.com&ip=10.13.166.8&d=d6184&mf=2&hm__ts=Wed%2c%2010%20Nov%202010%2001%3a41%3a38%20G MT&st=bartonca&hm__ha=01_85f010d1e36e4c36b2b0e8f852c122a8161f1151 fd1299948a4d0573e9d32d41&oneredir=1



This Sturgeon was caught on the Cherokee Lake, Morristown, TN two weeks ago.
It weighed out at over 1,000 lbs and measured out at 11'1".
It was 56" around the girth and took over 6 and a half hours, and 4 dozen beers, for the
4 guys taking turns at the reeling it in.
Any Sturgeon OVER about five feet has to be released unharmed and cannot be removed from the water.
They are brood / breeding stock and probably older than most of us.