PDA

View Full Version : How about stocking Hesse Creek... for the kids?


JoeFred
11-05-2010, 12:19 PM
The very lightly fished Hesse Creek drainage empties into the Little River well outside the GSMN Park downstream of Townsend. Only small stretches of the remote watershed streams hold wild trout. Just for the sake of discussion... let’s say the National Park Service would consider stocking the Hesse Creek drainage in the Park.:confused:
What regulations could be put in place whereby young, typically impatient :frown: anglers could actually experience catching a trout? :smile: in the Smoky Mountains? :biggrin: where bears live :eek: ? (Obviously bait fishing should be prohibited as elsewhere).

What access improvements could be made with minimal effect on the environment? (Park-sanctioned Jeep shuttles for example?)

What access restrictions should be considered? (Special permit issued by shuttle operator perhaps?)
JF

Crockett
11-05-2010, 03:18 PM
I once walked 20 miles (there and back from abrams creek ranger station) to fish several hours and catch one small 3 inch black dace. The water looked great and very trouty but no luck. Fished all around cs 3. I wouldn't have any problem with them stocking the lower section there in walland up a ways but the access there at that bridge doesn't look to good. Obviously they will never stock fish in the park again so you aren't referring to that area right Fred?

JoeFred
11-05-2010, 06:02 PM
Adam, are you saying something was agreed to that by law fish can never be stocked in the park, even in an area totally isolated from other park streams, or is it more of a fisheries management mandate?

Yeah, I know access would be a huge obstacle and I doubt a new road/bridges would ever be agreed to... even for this type of cause.

JF

Crockett
11-05-2010, 07:14 PM
No Fred I meant that I don't think they would stock non-native species like rainbow trout in the park again. However there is no law against it that I know of. They might bring in some specks but Hesse probably can't support them. I just don't think they would ever stock a non-native in the park again. I could be wrong though they brought in the beetles for the hemlock adelgid.

Also the only part that they could really stock is down toward the little river. If they stocked Hesse Creek inside the park it would be innaccessible to kids anyway since it is such a long hike back in there and fairly remote.

tennswede
11-05-2010, 07:24 PM
I'm no expert on these things, but Adam is hinting at the right direction here, I would also add that one of the mandates for the Park Service is to protect and enhance "native" species. Therefore, the only option would be Char. As for the beetle, it's brought in to prevent a native from going extinct.

Bfish
11-05-2010, 08:19 PM
I don't think TWRA would look to happily on illegal stocking.


70-2-212. Stocking of wildlife — Inspections — Charges. —


(a) Stocking of wildlife is declared to be a prerogative of the state. All persons desiring to stock wildlife shall first obtain a permit from the executive director....

JoeFred
11-05-2010, 08:23 PM
Thanks, Adam & Hans. Good info.

Having worked in Kingsport many years, I got spoiled by living within reasonable driving and hiking access to some beautiful wild and stocked trout streams in the Greene, Unicoi & Carter county areas of the CNF. I didn't discover fly fishing until my children were adults. My grandchildren are getting old enough to perhaps take to the sport, but they live to the west of the Smokies. Tellico and Citico are not really the answer. The Blackberry Farm type fishing is a bit too pricey for me. I guess that leaves the Crosseyed Cricket and other trout farms, but I don't think they much cater to fly fishermen. :frown:

My son and his boys and I are going to the WNC Flyfishing Expo tomorrow. From that I hope they really get the itch to try the sport. Given all the other things out there trying to woo our young people, that would be a good problem to have.

JF

JoeFred
11-05-2010, 08:26 PM
I don't think TWRA would look to happily on illegal stocking.

70-2-212. Stocking of wildlife — Inspections — Charges. —

(a) Stocking of wildlife is declared to be a prerogative of the state. All persons desiring to stock wildlife shall first obtain a permit from the executive director....

Nor would I. Sorry if that impression was given.

JF

tennswede
11-05-2010, 08:37 PM
Joe Fred,

Those counties you mentioned, Carter, Unicoi and Greene sure has some magnificent and truly good trout streams, not to forget Johnson county either! too bad it's a two hour plus drive for me.

elkhaircaddis
11-07-2010, 02:44 PM
there is a little creek they stock for kids in the park, maybe its right outside, but its near the twin creeks visitor center. All of the pure brookie waters have a barrier at the low end (waterfall, mill dam, etc) so rainbows cannot repopulate. They stock a couple places just downstream from the park boundary with nothing to stop the stockers from going into the park. There are stockers in the park near gburg, townsend, and greenbriar, probably a few other places

Crockett
11-07-2010, 10:23 PM
there is a little creek they stock for kids in the park, maybe its right outside, but its near the twin creeks visitor center. All of the pure brookie waters have a barrier at the low end (waterfall, mill dam, etc) so rainbows cannot repopulate. They stock a couple places just downstream from the park boundary with nothing to stop the stockers from going into the park. There are stockers in the park near gburg, townsend, and greenbriar, probably a few other places

Hey elkhair I haven't hear of the park stocking a little creek would like to know more about that. Do they put rainbows in there? The creek that runs by twin creeks is Leconte Creek right?

Owl
11-08-2010, 04:19 AM
I think DH water would fit what you were looking for perfectly. Didn't a rather large rainbow come out of Hesse a few years ago, supposedly?

Jim Casada
11-09-2010, 04:49 PM
elkhaircaddis-The Park does not do any stocking and has notfor many years. They do transplant specks. Any hatchery fish in the Park, and there are lots of them, made their way upstream from state waters in N. C. or TN or from the Cherokee reservation. Many years ago (40+ I think) there were one or two streams in the Park which had sections set aside for youngsters under the age of 16.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdors.com)

JoeFred
11-10-2010, 05:28 PM
That's interesting, Jim. I wonder if such could become the case again. I am thinking in particular about the section of the Middle Prong of the Little Pigeon (Greenbrier) downstream of the ranger station an area, as you know, not particularly attractive to more experienced anglers. I would think a 12 year old would be delighted to share in biology class about catching a trout in the Smokies with an aquatic insect imitation... regardless if it's a Pittman Center homer.

JF

tennswede
11-10-2010, 06:52 PM
I hate to be negative on this, but stocking by the parks service of non natives probably will not happen. They are following a more strict park mission nowadays. As I have previously stated it's main mission is to interfere as little as practical. You will be surprised to hear about all the people I have encountered over the years not understanding this mission. They ask me when will they stock next? Where can I find lodging in the park? I usually tell them, camping or call a year in advance to the lodge! Lol. A lot of visitors to the park think it's just that. A park. They don't understand that it is unmanaged wilderness with some recreational activities allowed.

I'm not necessarily in agreement with park service about all the polices, but stocking of fish, besides brookies and the other natives won't happen in our lifetime.

JoeFred
11-10-2010, 07:57 PM
Hans, I'm over the idea of stocking. I agree with the reasoning. I'm just referring to areas in which TWRA's fish might come into play. Was constructing boundary barriers ever done or considered?

JF

I 'bout forgot to ask. Where is the signup sheet for the lodge.:smile:

tennswede
11-10-2010, 10:43 PM
After rereading your post I realized that I misunderstood you. My apologies. Well, I have caught one stocker bow, right upstream of the bridge about 400 yards inside the park boundary. It was in October of 2009. So, without being stocked but receiving spill over fish it's a good place to take a kid fishing. Check the stocking schedule for that area. I know they stock in the spring as well as in the fall.

JoeFred
11-12-2010, 11:08 PM
Joe Fred,

Those counties you mentioned, Carter, Unicoi and Greene sure has some magnificent and truly good trout streams, not to forget Johnson county either! too bad it's a two hour plus drive for me.

You're so right, Hans. Can't leave out JC. I actually caught my first trout with a fly rod in Beaverdam Creek about 20 years ago. My wife got to experience my celebrating like a kid. :smile:

JF

tennswede
11-13-2010, 02:20 PM
Ah, Beaverdam. This coming spring I'm going to hit it right. I have been trying to fish the Green Drake hatch on that river for two consecutive springs. Both times, it was muddy and high from storms. It is very prone to flash flooding and gets muddy easily. I assume from the agriculture runoff in Shady Valley.

duckypaddler
11-14-2010, 10:19 AM
The very lightly fished Hesse Creek drainage empties into the Little River well outside the GSMN Park downstream of Townsend. Only small stretches of the remote watershed streams hold wild trout. Just for the sake of discussion... let’s say the National Park Service would consider stocking the Hesse Creek drainage in the Park.:confused:
What regulations could be put in place whereby young, typically impatient :frown: anglers could actually experience catching a trout? :smile: in the Smoky Mountains? :biggrin: where bears live :eek: ? (Obviously bait fishing should be prohibited as elsewhere).

What access improvements could be made with minimal effect on the environment? (Park-sanctioned Jeep shuttles for example?)

What access restrictions should be considered? (Special permit issued by shuttle operator perhaps?)
JF

I haven't walked the entire section of this stream because of the most serious no tresspassing signs of Blackberry (only park section & below Blackberry). Jo if you got the money - from what I here it's already one of the best stocked streams near the Smokies:eek:. I just cant afford to pay high dollar for big stockers although I'm sure it's fun. I bought the Cherokeee Fly fishing section yearly permit a couple years back and only managed to make it up there once that year so I guess it's not my kind of fishing. If I want the big ones I just make the drive to the SoHo:biggrin:

As for stocking the lower section, it might not do well. Flows get very low, and since the water is far from the Springs at Blackberry water temp would most likely be a factor. Might work as a winter stocking, but stream features don't look all that trouty to me. Have you checked this out in person, or just glancing from a map?

JoeFred
11-14-2010, 12:53 PM
...As for stocking the lower section, it might not do well. Flows get very low, and since the water is far from the Springs at Blackberry water temp would most likely be a factor. Might work as a winter stocking, but stream features don't look all that trouty to me. Have you checked this out in person, or just glancing from a map?...

Thanks, duckypaddler. I have not gotten to visit the watershed. Just got what I know mostly from Crockett's and your posts. Sounds as though these streams are gonna mostly serve as great sights and sounds for hikers and campers.

JF

elkhaircaddis
11-25-2010, 12:18 AM
the water at blackberry gets dangerously close to 70 during the summer. I could have sworn someone (not the park service itself) stocked that little creek full f monster rainbows (near twin ceeks visitor center) and let the little kiddies clean em out. This was in 2006 when i was working for the park service, im not sure though, maybe i made the whole thing up. I wanna say i even saw the kids out there slingin snoopy poles, its amazing what you can forget in four years...

tjw37909
11-25-2010, 06:40 PM
That is Mynatt Park, just outside the NP in Gatlinburg, and is a children's only section. It is stocked with average stockers until Dec. 1 when DH starts in Gatlinburg then some larger ones go in.

TNBigBore
12-01-2010, 01:03 PM
Ah, Beaverdam. This coming spring I'm going to hit it right. I have been trying to fish the Green Drake hatch on that river for two consecutive springs. Both times, it was muddy and high from storms. It is very prone to flash flooding and gets muddy easily. I assume from the agriculture runoff in Shady Valley.


Also one of my favorite trout streams in TN. There are about a half dozen first rate trout streams within a 45 minute drive of Beaverdam as well. Given the choice, I always travel to the Elizabethtown, Butler, Mountain City area to trout fish over the National Park any day.

tennswede
12-04-2010, 02:59 PM
Correct, there are a couple of gems up there, and especially one stream in particular which have become one of my favorites.

Crockett
12-17-2010, 12:01 AM
Fred are you still out there? How's things in Russellville this winter?

JoeFred
12-17-2010, 10:45 AM
Adam, it's slicker than otter snot.

Are you by chance doing Porters Creek Trail again this weekend?;)

JF

Crockett
12-17-2010, 11:07 AM
Adam, it's slicker than otter snot.

Are you by chance doing Porters Creek Trail again this weekend?;)

JF

Hey Fred I am glad you are still around! Yeah it is slick but this mornings 35 felt like a balmy summer after what we had earlier this week. I barely needed a coat today lol.

Not going up Porters Creek Trail this weekend but will be heading to Rogersville next week then Russellville for Christmas with the families should be a lot of fun. I took Jack to the Santa Land thing at exit 407 (at smokies stadium) and he sat on Santa's lap told him he wanted a gun ha. Afterward he asked me if that guy really was Santa cause he thought Santa had a deep voice and that guy had a high voice like a girl. Pretty astute for a 5 year old. I told him 'oh he must be one of the elves then'.

Love your new map profile pic with Rocky Top very clever!

JoeFred
12-17-2010, 11:55 PM
I'd say Jack is astute. Children are pretty amazing and refreshingly honest.

We're going to get to be with family in Rogersville as well. I mention it in today's blog (http://www.smokystreams.com/blog/index.htm#20101217).

Merry Chistmas and a Happy New Year to you and others who come by this way.

JF

FishNHunt
12-27-2010, 05:26 AM
I'm a little late on this but, I'll throw out what little knowledge that I do know about Hesse's Creek. I'm pretty sure there is a "low head" dam on Hesse's creek. Might be wrong tho. Black Berry Farms would rather you not even drive by and look at their place but, that's another story all together. They however DO stock HUGE bows in the creek and TU had a show on fishing there. I know a guy whose family owns land just below there and he bait fishes the creek and catches some giant trout. I have caught large bows at the mouth of Hesse's creek and Little River after there is a large rain. If you want a shorter way into Hesse's creek go to Top "O" World and go down Gold Mine trail until you hit Cooper Rd Trail. You can either go down it or hop onto Bearded Cane Trail and get there that way. You will go past an OLD truck and then you enter private property. You can either climb the ridges up and over until you hit the trail again in the park or cross the (very pretty) log bridge and take your chances. I doubt that I would make the trip for it but, I would assume that from fall to spring one could catch (Black Berrys stocked) trout in the park on Hesse's creek. Just a thought.

As far as a stocked creek for kids. The Little River in Townsend is stocked about all winter I believe. I can remember going to the the old one lane bridge and catching one trout after another on a silver cleo. The new two lane bridge sets ontop of that hole now.