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ChemEAngler
12-05-2010, 02:20 PM
Didn't see this anywhere else on the board, and figured I would put it up here. The way I understand it, on Dec 1st the flyfishing only trophy section yearly license increased from $25 to $75. My yearly license just expired recently, and I think I used it three times. It is a unique experience with the potential to catch some real bruisers. However, I think maybe the Reservation made too great of a change in their yearly license. Especially when you compare that to what a yearly NC trout license costs, and the quality DH and C&R water in the surrounding areas.

I think for 2011, I will save myself some money and buy an out of state NC license and make my way to the Davidson, Nantahala, Tuck, etc.

Any thoughts?

tennswede
12-05-2010, 02:48 PM
Agreed, I will fish elsewhere now. Not because I can't afford it, but I rather spend my money on other areas. It's just not worth the price increase, mainly because the section is too short.

David Knapp
12-05-2010, 05:21 PM
I won't be spending that kind of money to fish there...I would rather catch wild fish in the Park and have the stream to myself than spend that much money to share the water with a bunch of other people. It was sorta worth it 3-4 times a year when the price was cheap but not now...

Knothead
12-05-2010, 06:51 PM
A friend told me about the trophy section. I was anticipating getting the wife there to tie into a real lunker. Family needs prevented it this past year. Now........I'm going to scratch it off the list and concentrate on my home water, the Hiwassee; also, the Tellico area and the park. The last year (11 years ago) we were in Cherokee, we were disappointed with the town. It seemed like everything went down the tube and the casino was the moneymaker.

tennswede
12-05-2010, 07:46 PM
Knothead,

Knowing your location there's no reason to travel far, unless you just need a different experience. Even then, I would go a different direction than Cherokee.

pineman19
12-05-2010, 10:17 PM
John,

I agree on Cherokee, it's really went downhill since they built the casino. Drove around town a few months ago when I stayed at Smokemont and the area has really went downhill in the last ten years. Never was my favorite area to begin with, I like Bryson City a lot more when I am visiting the NC side of the Smokies, less touristy, better food, etc. Big part of the reason why I never signed up for the Trophy Section, they get enough money from the casino IMO.

Neal

gmreeves
12-06-2010, 12:35 PM
I managed to renew my license online just before the deadline. I used it this weekend and will probably use it one more time. It is a fun sort of novelty thing but I definately won't go back once I have to pay the increased cost. I much prefer wild water but for a winter getaway, it is a good change of pace. I also hit up a DH in NC as well and while the fish weren't as big, the numbers made up for it.

Wilson10
12-06-2010, 03:53 PM
I heard about the increase that was too happen Dec 1st. I've never fished the trophy section, but did have it on my list of "to do" fishing spots. $75 just totally isn't worth it to me for a section of water that is supposed to be over fished and very short. My days on the water are too important to me and I'd rather fish a lot of other spots besides Cherokee.

Knothead
12-06-2010, 05:11 PM
Let me expand on my remark. I'll probably go back for the Cherokee heritage and culture, like the museum, the Oconoluftee village and the play.:smile: May fish the regular trout waters if I get the urge but scratch the trophy water!:eek:

tennswede
12-06-2010, 07:36 PM
John,

I have fished the regular sections in Cherokee and Bunches can be a hoot. It's really fun to hook in to a larger stocker in that small stream. They don't have anywhere to go but jumping straight up.

Crockett
12-07-2010, 09:52 AM
I hate to pile on the Cherokee here even though they are making the wrong decision but I will. Cherokee seems like a sad cross between gatlinburg and newport. It is depressing driving through and seeing all those neat looking 1950s hotels rotting away next to endless cheap souvenier shops. Neal you are right I don't know what it is but I can never find a good meal there short of Pete's pancake place (which is ok). Bryson city or Maggie Valley are a lot better as far as food goes over on that side. I too wanted to fish the trophy section but I sure would feel like a fool to pay $75 and get skunked (if I pay that much it is sure to happen to me).

GrouseMan77
12-07-2010, 09:55 PM
I was never interested in fishing it anyway. Just not my thing.

troutslayer3393
12-07-2010, 10:11 PM
Especially when cat food gets thrown off of the bridge every day at noon

gmreeves
12-08-2010, 09:47 AM
I'm not trying to convert anybody to liking it because it really isn't my thing either but I managed to hook several nice fish no where close to the bridges and main pull offs. I can't imagine being there with nice weather and the crowds though.

I just went to the site where you can renew your license and they now offer a 3 day C&R pass for $25 so you aren't forced to pay the $75 for the whole year.

buckeyetrouter
12-08-2010, 09:57 AM
for $25 I was able to deal with limited spots to get into, almost elbow to elbow & guys wading past you to get to a spot above you.......but for $75 I would have better odds at the casino. I can be elbow to elbow in G-Burg with the same results I had last 2 times... It was kinda fun for the anticipation of a hog.....but not "$50 more" fun

Tarheelflyfishing
12-10-2010, 04:14 PM
Yep. $75 is over the top. I think they'll find that they're hurting their profit instead of helping it. More money per person, but much less people...

Come to the Davidson, Tuck, Nantahala, or Wilson Creek for the price of an NC license. There are some big fish being caught in all of the above. While I loved fishing in Cherokee, it's not on my list anymore.

GrouseMan77
12-10-2010, 07:39 PM
I should have elaborated a little as to the reason it's not really my thing. I'd rather catch fish in streams that might see a couple hundred fisherman in a year not a couple hundred in a single day. If hooking into a larger fish in a mountain setting means rubbing elbows and throwing "corn kernel flies" I'm just not interested.

One guy used to tell me all the time about how great it was fishing the mountains and catching "those hawgs". He probably misses fishing the Cross Eye'd Cricket.

helix149
12-10-2010, 10:20 PM
Ok guys while it would be highly unlikely that I would go there to fish either at that price I am going to play devils advocate since no one else seems to be willing to on this issue.

Have any of you thought of the possibility that this is not about making more money but instead about protecting the fishery and increasing fisherman satisfaction by lowering the amount of people on the river at a given time? Yes they could limit the amount of licenses sold per day/week/month/year however if they were to do this people would likely cry foul and maybe even try to sue (even though the Cherokee would likely win in this scenario it still costs large amounts of money for a good defense atty) Instead they dramatically raise the price of a licence therefore lowering the amount of anglers while still allowing those that really want to fish the area to have access. Another benefit is that those that feel it is worth spending that much cash to have access also likely respect the privilege more and take better care of the area potentially lowering upkeep costs to the reserve. Ultimately they own the land and the waters and can do whatever they like including the banning of all fishing by non Native Americans if they wanted to. Also we all need to remember at one time they controlled all the land in the area and were forced by threat of death to retreat to this relatively small patch of land by our nations ancestors.

GrouseMan77
12-11-2010, 12:23 AM
Ok guys while it would be highly unlikely that I would go there to fish either at that price I am going to play devils advocate since no one else seems to be willing to on this issue.

Have any of you thought of the possibility that this is not about making more money but instead about protecting the fishery and increasing fisherman satisfaction by lowering the amount of people on the river at a given time? Yes they could limit the amount of licenses sold per day/week/month/year however if they were to do this people would likely cry foul and maybe even try to sue (even though the Cherokee would likely win in this scenario it still costs large amounts of money for a good defense atty) Instead they dramatically raise the price of a licence therefore lowering the amount of anglers while still allowing those that really want to fish the area to have access. Another benefit is that those that feel it is worth spending that much cash to have access also likely respect the privilege more and take better care of the area potentially lowering upkeep costs to the reserve. Ultimately they own the land and the waters and can do whatever they like including the banning of all fishing by non Native Americans if they wanted to. Also we all need to remember at one time they controlled all the land in the area and were forced by threat of death to retreat to this relatively small patch of land by our nations ancestors.

helix149 - It would be great if today's Cherokee was purely interested in raising funds to protect their fishery and their land. But, I kinda doubt that this is the case.

I should say that I have not personally fished there but have driven by to see what the deal was. In my opinion, the fee is just another way for the council to make money. I do believe that the Native American people were wronged and they should have been treated better. I also think that some are trying to play catch up and are looking at making money anyway they can. People love to blow money on fly fishing...just like gambling.

helix149
12-11-2010, 02:16 AM
Im sorry I did not make it clear however I guess I will now. I am not taking sides with the posting I made as I rarely if ever trout fish. I typically FLY fish for predatory and warm-water fish such as carp or smallies and this coming year will be targeting gar, musky and striper as well. I simply posted to play devils advocate and provide a possibly different scenario to the one that appears to be assumed by the previous posters. I did this to hopefully prompt more of a discussion instead of simply a bashing thread that does nothing to help the situation and only has the potential to make it worse if someone from the reservation were to come to the thread and read the posts.

GrouseMan77
12-11-2010, 09:20 AM
Im sorry I did not make it clear however I guess I will now. I am not taking sides with the posting I made as I rarely if ever trout fish. I typically FLY fish for predatory and warm-water fish such as carp or smallies and this coming year will be targeting gar, musky and striper as well. I simply posted to play devils advocate and provide a possibly different scenario to the one that appears to be assumed by the previous posters. I did this to hopefully prompt more of a discussion instead of simply a bashing thread that does nothing to help the situation and only has the potential to make it worse if someone from the reservation were to come to the thread and read the posts.

I also should have been a little more clear. I understood that you were playing devil's advocate and should have stated so. Not trying to argue with you or anyone else. Just stating my opinion, which I hope didn't come across as harsh.

If the council wants money to protect their streams and land I personally would be willing to give a donation before I would pay to fish with a herd of people. Like I said before, I have a lot of respect for the Native Americans, but, tripling the fee just seems a tad much.

It might not hurt if someone from the tribe happened upon this thread. It is full of potential customers...

2weightfavorite
12-11-2010, 11:16 AM
75 dollars is rediculous! Especially when you add to that the fact that the fishing and catching of lunkers has been way down over there this year. I remember when I first started fishing over there, 20 inchers were common. The last 3 times ive been there have really been sub par. Caught some decent fish, but nothing giant. In fact I could have caught the same from the regular stocked waters. So they are making more money by not stocking nearly as many fish and big fish, and now they will make more money on cost of permits. Money grubbers! Maybethey should put some slots at the pull offs. that would increase revenue as well.

Crockett
12-12-2010, 12:05 AM
Im sorry I did not make it clear however I guess I will now. I am not taking sides with the posting I made as I rarely if ever trout fish. I typically FLY fish for predatory and warm-water fish such as carp or smallies and this coming year will be targeting gar, musky and striper as well. I simply posted to play devils advocate and provide a possibly different scenario to the one that appears to be assumed by the previous posters. I did this to hopefully prompt more of a discussion instead of simply a bashing thread that does nothing to help the situation and only has the potential to make it worse if someone from the reservation were to come to the thread and read the posts.

I hope some from the tribe does read the thread and pass it along to others. i for one would have probably gone over there and given them money next year to fish that area and in turn spent money in Cherokee. Now I won't be so this definitely will impact them. Seems strange to have a strategy to protect stockers but in any case I have the feeling it will probably protect them ;). I think I could have swallowed a price increase from 25 to 35 or possibly even 50 but more than doubling it I think is a bad decision and I probably will not ever look into fishing there again.

By the way does anyone know if this is confirmed the $75 thing could this just be a bad rumor?

2weightfavorite
12-12-2010, 12:27 AM
rumor, cant be... if its on the internet, then it has to be true!

GrouseMan77
12-12-2010, 08:48 AM
rumor, cant be... if its on the internet, then it has to be true!

I read about it on Wikileaks...:eek:

gmreeves
12-12-2010, 11:41 AM
Yes. It is true. You can go their site and buy the license online. It is $75 for the yearly permit for the C&R and $25 for a 3-day C&R. I doubt they will lose much money if any. I figure those that travel far to fish there only get up there once or twice a year anyway so buying a 3-day is still basically like it was before the increase. For those that live close by and fish it often, $75 isn't all that much.

gmreeves
12-12-2010, 11:44 AM
I read about it on Wikileaks...:eek: Every time I hear Wikileaks, I think it is an advertisement for a Urologist.

Knothead
12-12-2010, 06:17 PM
Let's keep everything in perspective. The special trophy section was a small section compared to all the streams available to the public. I guess I'll have to do some research and see who my ancestor was and get listed on the tribal roll. I have a picture to start with.

Owl
12-15-2010, 10:12 PM
Every time I hear Wikileaks, I think it is an advertisement for a Urologist.


It and Wikipedia are more related to...well,...nevermind.


Crockett - I'm pretty sure it's a done deal from what I'm hearing. Perhaps the "bad economy" hasn't hit Casino-town yet? The good thing for people who want to blow that kind of money to fish for stocked pellet fed fish is that they'll have more of the river to themselves next year.


Helix - If the Tribal leaders cared about what fly fisherman thought, they'd have thought twice about making fishing on their water so expensive. Only good things could come from them reading our lamentations over their decision to price their water out of reach( by choice or necessity). As for respect, I'm glad they finally stopped using old oil drums as trash cans. Enough said.

flyman
12-16-2010, 10:50 AM
I've never fished it myself, but for someone who is a tourist and just wants to catch a few trout it isn't all that bad of a deal. Don't forget you don't have to buy an NC license;) It's really not that bad if you were going to fish it even 3 or 4 times a year. Daily rod fees are much higher in most places, and quite a few of them make you hire a guide as well to fish their waters. There is some talk of expanding the program to include more water. It's not for me, but all in all I don't think it's a bad deal.:smile:

MBB
12-17-2010, 09:45 AM
I've never fished it myself, but for someone who is a tourist and just wants to catch a few trout it isn't all that bad of a deal. Don't forget you don't have to buy an NC license;) It's really not that bad if you were going to fish it even 3 or 4 times a year. Daily rod fees are much higher in most places, and quite a few of them make you hire a guide as well to fish their waters. There is some talk of expanding the program to include more water. It's not for me, but all in all I don't think it's a bad deal.:smile:

I agree. While I have fished Cherokee several years ago, I have never fished the trophy water. I am almost exclusively into wild trout and will only rarely fish DH water. But, if you look at the prices of most "private" stocked trout water, and you are into pellet pigs, this is not a bad deal. A lot of the private water is at least $150 per day without a guide. If you were to fish the trophy water in Cherokee six times a year, I believe you would wind up paying less than $23 per trip including the price of the daily permit. The higher prices will probably make the angling experience much better with less fisherman. I also understand that they will increase the mileage of the trophy water. It really would be nice if they made the lower Oconaluftee trophy water, that would make a great float. I might have to jump into that experience.

flyman
12-17-2010, 12:14 PM
I also think they have a 3 day pass for $25 plus the daily rod fee on the reservation. Not a bad deal for someone on vacation for a couple days.:smile:

Owl
12-17-2010, 03:35 PM
I agree. While I have fished Cherokee several years ago, I have never fished the trophy water. I am almost exclusively into wild trout and will only rarely fish DH water. But, if you look at the prices of most "private" stocked trout water, and you are into pellet pigs, this is not a bad deal. A lot of the private water is at least $150 per day without a guide. If you were to fish the trophy water in Cherokee six times a year, I believe you would wind up paying less than $23 per trip including the price of the daily permit. The higher prices will probably make the angling experience much better with less fisherman. I also understand that they will increase the mileage of the trophy water. It really would be nice if they made the lower Oconaluftee trophy water, that would make a great float. I might have to jump into that experience.

IMHO Cherokee water does not favorably compare to any established and privately owned commercial "trophy water" in the Southeast. Not even close to the experience you can get elsewhere. People sloshing through your hole while you're fishing it? Walking into your backcast shouting "You ketchin anything?" Dogs playing in the water near you. The sound of school buses and stadium PA systems blaring around you. Onlookers pestering you. Mothers bringing their 12 kids down for a swim and pushing you out of a good pool.

Although I'm no big cheerleader for pellet fed experiences.....


Not. Even. Close.

Jim Casada
12-17-2010, 05:29 PM
Owl--I would add to your list of irritants folks in float tubes drifting through pools, locals tossing cat and dog food to fish, and some (though certainly not all) guides acting as if the water "belongs" to their clients and them. Mind you, these are just observations from out of the water (I occasionally stop at the old bridge crossing from the Park housing area to the Cherokee High School and observe the zoo). Like you, none of this is my cup of tea, and it's not too late for the Cherokee Tribal Fisheries folks to rescue this boon (to many) before it becomes a boondoggle.

I actually think the increased cost might have hidden benefits (fewer fishermen), and it needs to be remembered that even at $75 you are far short of a day's rod fee on fine private waters such as the Soque. Other things Tribal Fisheries might consider are expanding the area of trophy water, either a guided only or no guides approach (one appeals to novices, the other to highly experienced anglers--or it could be a mix of the two), and stern control of obnoxious behavior which ruins the experience. It will be really interesting to see how it unfolds, although I'll watch from afar. After all, I can cast to wild fish just yards away (where Luftee enters Raven Fork) and in all liklihood, especially on a week day, have the stream all to myself.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

mcfly
12-25-2010, 02:36 AM
Not even close to the experience you can get elsewhere. People sloshing through your hole while you're fishing it? Walking into your backcast shouting "You ketchin anything?" Dogs playing in the water near you. The sound of school buses and stadium PA systems blaring around you. Onlookers pestering you. Mothers bringing their 12 kids down for a swim and pushing you out of a good pool.

Never fished it and , personally, I wouldn't pay $25 dollars to fish it, let alone $75. But then again, Owl's description sounds like July 4th, Memorial day, and labor day weekend on (insert any Tennessee tailwater here).

The thing I like about the Cherokee fishery is that, considering the advertising and attention that is seems to get, it probably keeps some of the pressure off of other streams in the area. For that reason, I hate to see such a steep fee increase.