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buzzmcmanus
02-18-2011, 08:03 AM
I figured I'd start a new thread, since I didn't want to wade through the last one.

Matt Kulp and Steve Moore had an excellent presentation on the fishery in the GSMNP last night in Wears Valley. I would recomend it to anyone wanting to go in the future. Alot of information was covered, so here are a few of the highlights that interested me the most.

- 60% of the fish die annually in a typical year in the park.

- Most fish don't live beyond 3 years in age. The 9 and 10" fish you are releasing probably won't live much longer, so you might as well keep it.

- Terrestrials (sp.) make up most of a trout's diet, by a very large percentage. This has been told to me many times, I guess I just needed a biologist to pound it home.

- There have been 2 food habit studies of otters conducted in the park and both found that otters eat crayfish all months of the year.

- Of the fish that the otters eat, and they do eat fish, only 14.3% of them are trout.

- They have conducted fish population studies of watersheds before otter re-introduction and after, and have found that otters have little influence on trout populations within the park. Thay showed us the figures for many watersheds. Trout populations rose and fell with water events (drought, floods) and that there are as many fish now as there was before otters.

- As streams get smaller, otters eat less and less fish. Our brook trout streams are safe.

- They will be removing the brook trout from Lynn Camp Prong and re-poisoning it again this year in an effort to re-re-introduce the southern strain of brook trout.

I'm 100% satisfied that otters pose no threat to our fishery.

I'm sure I missed some other highlight that may have interest some of you, but you'll just have to go to the next one yourself.

JoeFred
02-18-2011, 08:28 AM
Excellent summary, Buzz. You take far better notes than I.

I got the impression they have conducted the fish population studies before otter re-introduction and after for most major watersheds, including Deep Creek, although there was not a slide specifically for it in the presentation. Matt said he would be happy to share the data for any or all streams that they studied.

The next Community Fisheries Presentation will be at Townsend City Hall on March 3 at 7pm. I encourage those that can to attend.

buzzmcmanus
02-18-2011, 08:34 AM
JoeFred, I forgot you were going to be there. I would have come over and introduced myself if I would have know which one you were.

JoeFred
02-18-2011, 08:42 AM
I started to see if you were the person I had singled out, and should have. Were you about four rows back, next to whom I guessed was Hans?

Bran
02-18-2011, 08:47 AM
Thanks Buzz, that's interesting information for sure. I am especially amazed at that 60% figure on mortality for a "typical" year so that means in a drought year it's way higher. Even more so in a 2nd or 3rd drought year I would think, it just drives home how tough the little fellers are at digging in and maintaining!!

2weightfavorite
02-18-2011, 09:00 AM
Maybe I didn't read it right... They are going to kill all the fish in lynn camp again?? wow... Out of curiosity, what strain of brook trout did they put in? Whos job was it to obtain these brook trout? Does this man or woman still have a job? If so why? They cry about the posibility of someone adding rainbows to the creek, and they didn't even stock it with the right type fish themselves? What can we say, its a government job... Maybe we'll get to fish that area again in 30 or so years.. What a waste of time, money, and not to mention the thousands of aquatic organisms they are killing.

Jim Casada
02-18-2011, 09:09 AM
2weightfavorite--Like you, I am thunderstruck by this piece of information. We are talking tens of thousands of dollars and untold man hours. I thought the Park learned this lesson decades ago. Surely there is some explanation beyond "we are going to do it all again."
Jim Casada

Knik
02-18-2011, 09:15 AM
Buzz, thanks for taking the time to share some of the high-lights with us. Wish I could have made it.

Joe, thanks for posting the date for the next meeting.

Outside of predators, drought, floods, etc....... what were some other contributing factors pertaining to the short life spans?

Crockett
02-18-2011, 09:15 AM
Buzz thanks for the report. My mind at least is a bit more at ease on the Otter front but it is worth keeping an eye on over time like with anything. I was shocked about the plan to re-poison Lynn Camp prong again not sure how I feel about that. I am kind of thinking the restoration project should be ended after Lynn Camp is finally done. Does anyone know if any other streams are going to be restored or is this the last one? Overall I can't argue that it sounds like these guys know their business and I am impressed with all the specific details on the Otter situation in particular.

Jim Casada
02-18-2011, 09:18 AM
Buzz--Thanks for the detailed report. I remain highly skeptical on the otters (certainly not 100% satisfied they pose no threat), and I'll give one specific example of why. How can the biologists determine that 14.3 percent of the diet of Park otters is trout unless they are (1) tracking otters constantly with a video or (2) killing otters to examine their stomach contents? The answer is obvious. They can't, because they aren't doing either of those things. When I see very specific percentages like this, I immediately get dubious. Moreover, I doubt, and doubt seriously, that there has been a lot of effort put into the otter research. Were you given any information on the specific streams surveyed, how it was done, when it was done, and who did it?
I do intend to contact Matt and ask for the specific studies and, more importantly, their methodology. I have found him very open and forthcoming. The information on methodology is crucial, as is the extent of the studies in terms of sampling.

My continuing skepticism notwithstanding, I appreciate your taking time to share what you heard. I've commented elsewhere on the re-poisoning of Lynn Camp Prong. That is, in my view, a travesty and someone screwed up big-time.

Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com

JoeFred
02-18-2011, 09:20 AM
...Out of curiosity, what strain of brook trout did they put in? ...

They put in the southern strain of brook trout... imported from elsewherein the Park. He can speak for himself, but I don't think Buzz was saying "southern strain of brook trout" in contrast to the native species.

JF

buzzmcmanus
02-18-2011, 09:23 AM
JoeFred, that was us. I'll be sure to find you this year at Troutfest.

Bran, what really amazed me, was how fast these trout rebounded back to carrying capacity after a drought/flood. They sure are tough.

2weightfavorite/Jim, I don't have answers to your questions. There's a public meeting March 3 in Townsend. Matt and Steve were very open with information, you may want to attend and ask these questions.

Knik, They never really said specifically, but one thing they did cover was that when trout reach a certain size, they actually decrease in weight during certain time periods, due to there being a lack of food (browns excluded). I have a feeling that has something to do with it.

One thing that I forgot to mention is that a decent portion of the presentation that has to do with acid rain. 12 streams are on some list (scientific name) that are endangered due to low pH levels. Even though the air quality has gotten better over the years, the particles from the past have soaked into the ground and are being leached into our streams and still causing a problem.

buzzmcmanus
02-18-2011, 09:27 AM
Were you given any information on the specific streams surveyed, how it was done, when it was done, and who did it?
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com
People are posting faster than I can answer.

Matt showed slides on several streams, but did not go into great detail about how they gathered data. It was an hour long presentation and they covered alot of information, so they didn't get too detailed about it.

JoeFred
02-18-2011, 09:30 AM
People are posting faster than I can answer.


We're like feeders in a major mayfly hatch...

buzzmcmanus
02-18-2011, 09:31 AM
Does anyone know if any other streams are going to be restored or is this the last one?
Adam, They had a list of several more streams that were going to be restored. If I remember correctly it was around 40 more miles of stream. For comparision, they restrored 8 miles along Lynn Camp Prong.

*Disclaimer* I'm going by memory with these figures, so they may be nowhere near correct.

Crockett
02-18-2011, 09:31 AM
Now back to the important stuff...

"Terrestrials (sp.) make up most of a trout's diet, by a very large percentage."

That is kind of surprising too for me anyway. Seems like I only go to terrestrials in the summer as per conventional wisdom. Maybe I should rethink that strategy. I noticed a lot of winter fishing pics on another board, frequented by western NC folks, where they were using green weenies.

buzzmcmanus
02-18-2011, 09:34 AM
We're like feeders in a major mayfly hatch...

I'm going to work, so you guys are on your own for the next couple hours.

buzzmcmanus
02-18-2011, 09:38 AM
Now back to the important stuff...

"Terrestrials (sp.) make up most of a trout's diet, by a very large percentage."

That is kind of surprising too for me anyway. Seems like I only go to terrestrials in the summer as per conventional wisdom. Maybe I should rethink that strategy. I noticed a lot of winter fishing pics on another board, frequented by western NC folks, where they were using green weenies.

One last thing before work.

I didn't present all the facts. The slide showing terrestrials making up most of a trouts diet only showed the summer months. I don't think they showed anything showing a winter trouts diet. They did show us where a trout puts on most of its weight from fall through spring as compared to spring through fall. The larger trout actually lost weight from spring through fall and gained from fall through spring.

I'm out of here.

Jim Casada
02-18-2011, 10:00 AM
buzz--Thanks, and obviously you've got to make a living (so have a good day at work). I would love to attend one of the presentations, but a six-hour trip to Tennessee is too much for me. Did they give any indication as to whether there would be a presentation in N. C.?
This side of the Park is the focal point, it would seem, of most of the skepticism about otters and, for that matter, other things. It invariably seems that the N. C. side gets fewer hearings, fewer presentations, less money, and less attention. If I sound a bit disillusioned in that regard, I am, but my feelings pale in comparison to those of others in Swain County who constantly have issues with the Park. I'll offer just one example. Several years ago the low water bridge on Hazel Creek washed out (or some say the Park removed it--I have no way of knowing although the last time I crossed it the bridge seemed structurally fine). The superintendnet assured folks it would be promptly replaced, something which is important because access to cemeteries without the bridge is pretty much out of the question for the elderly when Fontana is low. As of this writing nothing has been done. There are many other examples.

But if a N. C. presentation was mentioned, or if you know where such information can be found on the Park web site (I didn't find it, but I'm anything but a computer whiz), I would make every effort to travel to the meeting.

Many thanks.

Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com

2weightfavorite
02-18-2011, 10:08 AM
the stocking of otters to me is alot like the 33 billion dollar gov stimulus to big corporations. They have to say that everything is better, that it all worked as planned. They cannot say "well we're sorry, we were wrong, it was all a mistake" No matter what the otters are actually doing they will always defend the re introduction of them. Like Jim said, until serious examination (videoing or killing and examining) of otters is done, we will never know the real facts. Not to mention, Id say that we will never know for sure anyway. Every river is different, some may have more crayfish, some more newts and salamaders. Id say the diet of otters varies greatly from river to river.

Stana Claus
02-18-2011, 10:18 AM
Maybe I didn't read it right... They are going to kill all the fish in lynn camp again?? wow... Out of curiosity, what strain of brook trout did they put in? Whos job was it to obtain these brook trout? Does this man or woman still have a job? If so why? They cry about the posibility of someone adding rainbows to the creek, and they didn't even stock it with the right type fish themselves? What can we say, its a government job... Maybe we'll get to fish that area again in 30 or so years.. What a waste of time, money, and not to mention the thousands of aquatic organisms they are killing.
- They will be removing the brook trout from Lynn Camp Prong and re-poisoning it again this year in an effort to re-re-introduce the southern strain of brook trout.
My understanding from what Buzz posted is that they will remove the brook trout that have already be restocked, then repoison the stream, then put the originally stocked brookies, plus some fresh stock, back in. I may be totally wrong, but that's the way I read it.

JoeFred
02-18-2011, 10:33 AM
..Did they give any indication as to whether there would be a presentation in N. C.?...
This side of the Park is the focal point, it would seem, of most of the skepticism about otters and, for that matter, other things. It invariably seems that the N. C. side gets fewer hearings, fewer presentations, less money, and less attention...

Jim, the March 3 Community Presentation I mentioned was an item on a general schedule handout. No others were shown for through November. I'll see if I can learn more from Matt.

I asked if due to budget cutbacks, travel, fuel prices, etc. were they being prevented from conducting any activities on the NC side that are being done on the TN side. Both Matt & Steve said there was no such restrictions. The data they presented seemed to bear that out. Matt did remark that they would like to have done trout distribution and other surveys on Raven Fork, but it's remoteness, size and the amount of staffing that would be required makes that pretty much impossible.

JoeFred
02-18-2011, 10:37 AM
My understanding from what Buzz posted is that they will remove the brook trout that have already be restocked, then repoison the stream, then put the originally stocked brookies, plus some fresh stock, back in. I may be totally wrong, but that's the way I read it.

Stana Claus, you're spot-on with what I heard.

Jim Casada
02-18-2011, 11:58 AM
Fred--Thanks. There's certainly some validity to the cost "explanations" in terms of the current economy, but that's precisely the sort of excuses folks on this side of the Park have heard for decades and, frankly, are tired of hearing. One thing for sure, the money which has, it seems, in essence been wasted on the first go-round of the Lynn Camp Prong experience would have covered a bunch of presentations on the Tar Heel side, not to mention stream surveys, etc.

On another matter, unless I missed something, none of you who were fortunate enough to be able to attend has provided any information about the rationale for the current creel regulations (in terms of size of fish, numbers for a limit, or possession numbers). Were those subjects addressed at all?

Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

buzzmcmanus
02-18-2011, 12:19 PM
On another matter, unless I missed something, none of you who were fortunate enough to be able to attend has provided any information about the rationale for the current creel regulations (in terms of size of fish, numbers for a limit, or possession numbers). Were those subjects addressed at all?


Yes, the question about a 5 fish creel was asked. Several explanations were given, and none of them made much sense to me, but the one I understood the best was that surrounding states wanted there to be at least something, so they said "5", and that is what it is. Not much of a scientific explanation, but I gathered it was just a number pulled out of the air. Matt and Steve did suggest that something may be going on in the near future with some of the watersheds as an "example" on fish limits.

Sometimes, I need questions like this to remind me what all was discussed last night.

whitefeather
02-18-2011, 12:23 PM
Buzz,

Thanks for the report and the detail you shared! Because of your report, I am certainly hopeful that the otter will not be a future problem to trout in the future.

If specific details of how they accomplished the "study" and what facts they actually certified were forth coming it would certainly help to cancel out some of our (my) fears. (otter)

Hopefully, Hans and all the others who posted that the otters weren't a "big deal" were correct and we can all breathe a little easier.

Great job reporting on the meeting!

buzzmcmanus
02-18-2011, 12:27 PM
To add more to my last post. From what they said, it sounds like they have a a creel limit more for public perception than for any biologic reasons.

tennswede
02-18-2011, 12:30 PM
It was very heartening to see that I'm not the big "fool" on here. I'm not as old and experienced like some on here, but I'm no young boy either. I have experience from several countries around the world and I was pleased with yesterday's presentation.

I'm not going to stand on a soap box and tell you all I was right, but it gave me my honor back. They even referenced studies from Poland which would be the Eurasian Otter. I.e. my argument stand. The european otter and the american are not that different from each other. As for Jim's claim that there are no crayfish available, the presentation agreed with me. They eat crayfish all year like I said.

Sorry folks, I said I wasn't going to say more about this, but when someone beats you with a stick, you need to defend yourself.

Now, everyone, let's go fishing this beautfiul weekend and realize that we need to all be out there as a cure for the cabin fever that is now rampant.

whitefeather
02-18-2011, 12:50 PM
"It was very heartening to see that I'm not the big "fool" on here. I'm not as old and experienced like some on here, but I'm no young boy either. I have experience from several countries around the world and I was pleased with yesterday's presentation.

I'm not going to stand on a soap box and tell you all I was right, but it gave me my honor back."

Hans,

You never seemed like a "fool" or lost any honor in my book!

In fact, you stated your opinions and beliefs as valid points of argument and that was quite honorable in my opinon, because you did so with dignity and genuine concern. You deserved your vindication by sticking to your guns!


Next time I'm down that way I'll let you know on the forum in advance and perhaps we can do some fishing together or have a cup of coffee over lunch!

JoeFred
02-18-2011, 01:09 PM
Fred--Thanks. There's certainly some validity to the cost "explanations" in terms of the current economy, but that's precisely the sort of excuses folks on this side of the Park have heard for decades ...

Jim, it was I who used the cost possibilities as a lead in to my question. They were not excuses cited by Matt or Steve. They maintain there is no issue. Sorry for the confusion. Sometimes my attempts at tactfulness in posing questions at such gatherings backfire on me.

The only "excuse," if one wishes to call it that, was in regard to Raven Fork (earlier post). I have not make the trek up that impressive drainage and based on the topo map and lack of trails, it won't be one of the streams I will be volunteering to help with. :smile:

Fred

Jim Casada
02-18-2011, 01:56 PM
Fred--Thanks, but I still need some clarification. "They maintain there is no issue" with what? Appearing on the N. C. side? Otters? The situation on Lynn Camp Prong?
I'm still a bit in the dark here. If they don't plan to have any presentations on the N. C. side, that is an issue, and least with me. I'd love to have an opportunity, first-hand, to see the specifics of their studies and to probe with questions such as the 14.3% diet issue. I'm not a scientist, but I do have enough of a math background to have taught it years ago, and the problem with percentages and statistics, always, is how they were derived and what questions were asked in order to obtain those percentages.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com

Knik
02-18-2011, 02:08 PM
Thanks Buzz for the reply.

Last year was my first year fly fishing and I'm trying to learn all I can about trout and insects. Thanks again guys for sharing the info.

buzzmcmanus
02-18-2011, 02:23 PM
Knik, No problem. I would recomend making it to the next meeting, it was really informative.



I started this thread so others could know what was said at last nights meeting and I'm glad it hasn't turned into a big debate and gone into the crapper like so many other threads have recently. I hope it continues this way. This statement is not directed at Knik.

TNBigBore
02-18-2011, 06:09 PM
As a former fisheries biologist and current lay person, I think I can understand both perspectives on the otter issue. The otter/trout situation closely mirrors the striper/crappie situation on Norris Lake.

Common sense would dictate that large stripers would consume smaller fish like crappie given the chance. A decline in the crappie population on Norris throughout the 70s, 80s and 90s would seem to have borne out that fear. However, at least two studies were conducted in the late 80s and early 90s that showed stripers fed almost exclusively on shad. The crappie fishery was simply following the arc of most crappie fisheries in storage type impoundments. The reservoirs become more oligatrophic over time and cannot support the population of fish like crappie that it did in the first two decades after impoundment.

Similarly, common sense would seem to dictate that otters would consume a fair number of trout in the trout streams where they live. It sounds like at least one study in the park has shown otherwise. My first instinct is to agree with this study based on my past observations in Abrams Creek and Bald River. I used to fish each river a lot before and after the otter introductions. Since the otter introductions I see otters frequently and see their scat even more frequently. As I am sure you know they have a habit of depositing their scat on exposed flat rocks in the middle of streambeds. A fairly close inspection of many otter scat piles almost always reveals fragmented crayfish exoskeleton. I cannot remember finding fish bones more than a couple of times. This does not mean they are not consuming fish. It would just suggest to me that they are eating a lot of crayfish.

On the other side of the coin I know how fisheries studies are set up. Many assumptions have to be made at the beginning of every study. Often some of the assumptions prove to be incorrect. The sample area chosen may not be representative of the greater area. Your sample size may be too small to be statistically significant. Your sampling method may unintentionally exclude portions of a population, etc, etc. You get the idea. Some studies that biologists base management decisions on turn out to be flawed. So I always take the findings of studies with a grain of salt, especially when I do not know the methods used. All this to say that we may not have the definitive answer on the otter/trout interaction in the Park and surrounding area, but the best current scientific evidence does suggest that otters may not be as big a problem as feared.

As for main causes of mortality in Park streams. Based on the best knowledge available when I was with TWRA, most trout die due to their metabolic demands not being met by the food base in late summer. In other words, there is not enough of an insect food base in later summer to support large individual rainbow trout or large populations of trout as a rule. Brown trout can grow to larger sizes because they switch over to eating other fish at a much smaller size than rainbows. However, their numbers are limited as well by the general sterility of the streams and their overall marginal food base.

tennswede
02-18-2011, 06:44 PM
Next time I'm down that way I'll let you know on the forum in advance and perhaps we can do some fishing together or have a cup of coffee over lunch!

Whitefeather,

I would gladly fish with you if we can arrange for a time and place. Keep in touch.

JoeFred
02-18-2011, 07:04 PM
Fred--Thanks, but I still need some clarification. "They maintain there is no issue" with what? Appearing on the N. C. side? Otters? The situation on Lynn Camp Prong?
I'm still a bit in the dark here. If they don't plan to have any presentations on the N. C. side, that is an issue, and least with me....

Jim, they said there is no issue regarding the North Carolina side getting slighted (my word, not Matt's) on their activities.

I just learned from Matt that they "are also working on a location in western NC (Waynesville and/or Bryson City areas) for another talk or two." He says he will let me know as soon as they find a time/place, which I agreed I would help publicize.

To all: Out of consideration of Buzz starting this thread with some great info, and my wanting to help to keep things cordial, I will now make this my last post on the topic.

JF

buzzmcmanus
02-18-2011, 07:11 PM
I think I'm going to bow out also. I've answered about everything I know that was discussed.

2weightfavorite
02-18-2011, 10:18 PM
Samuel Langhorne Clemens better known as mark twain once said, "there are lies, **** lies, and statistics!" That about sums it up..

old east tn boy
02-19-2011, 09:05 AM
I'm finding it hard to believe these guys might be spreading misinformation as some might suggest, whether intentional or unintentional or by obscuring or omitting facts. There are several reasons why they would not, chief among them is the ethical issue. I believe there are still people in this world who take pride in their work and the cause they support and as such would be on a mission seeking the truth of the matter above all else. Besides, any scientific investigation is better than no scientific investigation.

Some very interesting facts were reported at the meeting. Thanks for posting them Buzz!

tennswede
02-19-2011, 12:09 PM
Old East Tn boy,

Very well said my friend. I have the utmost respect for Matt and Steve. I know Matt more than I know Steve, but both have always been very genuine and sincere when I have had questions, for them over the years. I am not saying that they are 100% right at all times but who is?

I tend to respect someone with their kind of experience over a layman. With that said, Matt did caution people to not overlook hobbyists when they do observations in the field. The problem is however, do we have the right knowledge and ability to analyze a situation correctly, just because we have fished a particular area for a lifetime! I side with the biologists on this one.

pineman19
02-19-2011, 02:22 PM
Thanks for the info Hans and Buzz. I should have went as well. I was impressed by Matt Culp the one time I was at a presentation he did at Bass Pro. The Park fisheries people may not be perfect, but I trust their judgment better than most people who do not do the research. Kinda sucks about Lynn Camp, one of my favorite streams before the restoration, but there is plenty of other water to fish in the Park and other areas.

Sometimes it's better to focus on what you have that's good in life, than worrying about what is bad.

Neal

tennswede
02-19-2011, 02:28 PM
Is that the "Lutra Lutra or Lontra Canadensis?" we need clarification please!

pineman19
02-19-2011, 02:32 PM
Is that the "Lutra Lutra or Lontra Canadensis?" we need clarification please!

Hans,

He lives in the creek behind where I live. I think he is the luttrelillius subspecies of otter. He is quite playful as you can see and keeps the frog/toad population in check. Them no-good amphibians keep me up at night during mating season:eek:

Neal

tennswede
02-19-2011, 03:06 PM
Luttrell Luttrell tennesseensius, you can keep five a day, single hook artificial only. Lol, no more coffee for me today, back to tying Black Zulus.

Fly Fisherman 1
02-19-2011, 06:01 PM
Re-poison...Good grief someone please stop them. We don't have any fish now. I do not agree with their fish studies at all. I fish all the time and the fish they say are there are not. Plain and simple. Otters eat a lot of fish. Like someone said earlier, this is the government running this. I appreciate their efforts, but poisoning streams is a typical government Band-Aid on a problem.

pineman19
02-19-2011, 06:23 PM
Re-poison...Good grief someone please stop them. We don't have any fish now. I do not agree with their fish studies at all. I fish all the time and the fish they say are there are not. Plain and simple. Otters eat a lot of fish. Like someone said earlier, this is the government running this. I appreciate their efforts, but poisoning streams is a typical government Band-Aid on a problem.

Where are you fishing. I don't consider my self a great fisherman, but it's pretty rare when I don't catch some fish in the Park. The exception is the Little River, which gives me more trouble than any stream in the Park. Saying there are no fish in the Park is crazy, maybe you need to change your methods or gain more experience. Took me a little while to where I consistently caught fish in the Smokies.

Neal

mayday
02-24-2011, 09:19 PM
I attended last year's session at Wears Valley Fire Department with Matt and Steve presenting the material regarding fisheries in GRSM. Matt showed one set of slides which described the streams which had the greatest consentration of trout, the largest trout and the most healthy vs most unhealthy streams. Basically Matt was saying "I AM TELLING YOU WHERE TO FIND THE LARGEST AND MOST FISH IN A 530,000 ACRE FISHERY." Once the presentation was over he asked for questions. One man made the comment "When will the Park Service help the fisherman?"

I about came out of my chair. I wanted to say "HE JUST TOLD YOU WHERE TO FISH!!!!!"

I know the presentation is very scientific with charts, slides, formulas, research, etc. For many people that is great fun. If you attend, you will at least get:

1. A greater understanding of fisheries management in GRSM
2. LOTS of info
3. An understanding that you are not the only angler/conservationist
4. An understanding that it is not only OK...but encouraged to harvest
5. If you listen real close you may learn where to fish and where to disregard

March 3rd in Townsend is the next presentation!

BTW....I spent a week helping with the Lynn Camp Prong restoration. Some of the trout we re-introduced were from upper watersheds in the Lynn Camp area. Those trout were electroshocked from the river moved to holding areas above the upper falls and we re-electroshocked those and brought them back after the stream was ready.

mayday
02-24-2011, 09:23 PM
Fly-fisherman1-----

Ah....there are plenty of fish in the Smokies! I guess it is the otters......now thats another thread!

GrouseMan77
02-24-2011, 09:26 PM
We don't have any fish now.

Perhaps you should consider getting a guide or something.

Grannyknot
02-25-2011, 09:16 AM
I attended last year's session at Wears Valley Fire Department with Matt and Steve presenting the material regarding fisheries in GRSM. Matt showed one set of slides which described the streams which had the greatest consentration of trout, the largest trout and the most healthy vs most unhealthy streams. Basically Matt was saying "I AM TELLING YOU WHERE TO FIND THE LARGEST AND MOST FISH IN A 530,000 ACRE FISHERY." Once the presentation was over he asked for questions. One man made the comment "When will the Park Service help the fisherman?"

I about came out of my chair. I wanted to say "HE JUST TOLD YOU WHERE TO FISH!!!!!"

I know the presentation is very scientific with charts, slides, formulas, research, etc. For many people that is great fun. If you attend, you will at least get:

1. A greater understanding of fisheries management in GRSM
2. LOTS of info
3. An understanding that you are not the only angler/conservationist
4. An understanding that it is not only OK...but encouraged to harvest
5. If you listen real close you may learn where to fish and where to disregard

March 3rd in Townsend is the next presentation!

BTW....I spent a week helping with the Lynn Camp Prong restoration. Some of the trout we re-introduced were from upper watersheds in the Lynn Camp area. Those trout were electroshocked from the river moved to holding areas above the upper falls and we re-electroshocked those and brought them back after the stream was ready.

Mr. Wadley....I didn't realize you were a forum member. I hope that you will find time to post more often. I really enjoyed your book on plane crashes.

mayday
02-26-2011, 04:45 PM
I don't get on here very much but occasionally...not so much for fishing info as much as participating in mudslinging! ha ha.....thats not completely true. ha ha