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gutshot
03-06-2011, 11:17 PM
I read on a low quality forum that all the hatcheries in the general Tennessee area may be closing. True?

rbreedi1
03-06-2011, 11:45 PM
The only one I have heard that they were considering closing was the Erwin national fish hatchery. Again this is what I heard..take it for what its worth.

JoeFred
03-07-2011, 08:30 AM
Actually, there are nine that could be closed. As many as six in the region I think I heard.

See related threads.
http://littleriveroutfitters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14865
http://littleriveroutfitters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14884

As I understand it, this could be nothing more than a leveraging ploy having to do with intra-govenment agency reimbursement matters, such agencies being U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, U.S Army Corps of Engineers, TVA, etc.

Erwin National Fish Hatchery Manager John Robinette was quoted by Brad Hicks in a February 22nd Johnson City (TN) Press.com article (http://www.johnsoncitypress.com/News/article.php?ID=86815)saying...

“It’s not the fact that they (USF&W) don’t have the money, it’s just their choice of how they want to spend it.”

Mr. Robinette went on to say,

“For several decades the service has been working to recover costs from responsible agencies to mitigate the adverse effects of federal water development projects while focusing on native fish recovery and restoration,” the USF&W’s proposed budget justification states. “If full reimbursement is not obtained from responsible agencies in 2012, Fisheries Program activities could be eliminated or substantially reduced at nine facilities until reimbursement is negotiated.”

JF

Corbo
03-07-2011, 09:48 AM
Sportsmen in our country pay their fair share in Federal excise taxes on everything related to fishing or hunting... no other outdoor sports are taxed like these two sports.

This money is "supposed" to support all kinds of worthy endeavors from fish stocking to habitat improvement to boat launches.

In fact a percentage of gasoline is actually figured into the equation as it is used in boats.

This tax is built into the price of everything you buy for fishing; sales tax is added on top.

Personally I think our government is horribly bloated with wasteful spending on all kinds of things BUT WE ARE ALREADY TAXED SPECIFICALLY ON FISHING & HUNTING GEAR WITH FUNDS RECEIVED DESIGNATED FOR RETURN TO THE FISHING & HUNTING COMMUNITY.

Everyone should be totally pissed off about this situation; while hatchery fish are not free YOU pay for them.

silvercreek
03-07-2011, 10:16 AM
Not to mention the trout stamp in addition to the fishing license. Of course you do not need a trout stamp to fish in the Smoky's. Makes you wonder if trout stamp sales will decline if stockings in tailwaters, etc are reduced.

Knothead
03-07-2011, 11:29 AM
The trout stamp doesn't figure into the federal hatcheries but does contribute to the state hatcheries, which are supplied by the federal hatcheries. Obviously, if tailwaters are not stocked, people will fish elsewhere. There would be some holdovers as on the Hiwassee but they will be few and far between.
As the chair for the Tennessee Council of Trout Unlimited, I have urged all TU chapters and members to contact their senators and representatives about this situation. I already have. I urge everyone who fishes for trout to do the same. If we squeak enough, we will get the grease.
I collect an excise tax on every rod that I build, whether I sell it or give it away.

Corbo
03-07-2011, 12:55 PM
Knothead

If this is a federal budgetary issue then wouldn't this same "threat" potential exist in other States? Perhaps NATIONAL TU should get involved (even though they are largely gutless IMO)?

Yes; I'm a life member

silvercreek
03-07-2011, 01:27 PM
Other states are impacted. Arkansas and I believe Georgia. There may be others.

Grannyknot
03-07-2011, 02:23 PM
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/save-National-Fish-Hactheries/

ChemEAngler
03-07-2011, 03:13 PM
Not wanting to stir up any political debate here, but just trying to get all my facts straight in my letter to congress. Do we know which side of the aisle this proposal for the budget cuts came from? I can't find anywhere which side supported this cut.

Knothead
03-07-2011, 04:29 PM
Corbo, TU National is aware of the situation. Since this is a federal issue, it will affect trout fisheries all over the country plus Indian reservations who receive fish from the federal hatcheries.
Doesn't matter whit side of the aisle this came from, the need if for everyone to contact their senators and representatives to keep the funding for the hatcheries.

ChemEAngler
03-07-2011, 06:24 PM
Doesn't matter whit side of the aisle this came from, the need if for everyone to contact their senators and representatives to keep the funding for the hatcheries.

I understand that, but I am trying to see if I can tell if this was being pushed by liberals who could care less about sportsmen and their rights, or if by conservatives trying to shave every ounce out of Obama's budget. I have already drafted up my letter to my congressman, but these letters get noticed more if you word them correctly. That is what I am trying to get a feeling for here. If I go in just ranting and raving to a conservative congressman about this stupid budget cut, and in turn discover that it was supported by the conservatives in an effort to cut government spending it will get less attention than if I wordsmith it toward my target audience. Trust me, I have quite a bit of experience preparing documents to be reviewed by persons in authority and in government, and the wording one uses in such documents can decide whether it gets thrown in the garbage or pinned to the wall as encouragement.

sammyben
03-07-2011, 06:32 PM
TU take action site
http://takeaction.tu.org/c.ntJSJ8MPIqE/b.6578825/k.B58A/HR_1_Action_Alert/siteapps/advocacy/ActionItem.aspx?auid=7820206

gutshot
03-07-2011, 07:51 PM
TU take action site
http://takeaction.tu.org/c.ntJSJ8MPIqE/b.6578825/k.B58A/HR_1_Action_Alert/siteapps/advocacy/ActionItem.aspx?auid=7820206

Can you point out the part in that letter that specifically involves the funding of hatcheries?

I have a very bad feeling TU national is going to come out against the hatchery programs.

old east tn boy
03-07-2011, 08:18 PM
Why would TU National come out against hatcheries?

gutshot
03-07-2011, 08:43 PM
Why would TU National come out against hatcheries?

Hatcheries to TU promote: non-native species, disease propagation, unfit fish, habitat degradation, and genetic degradation of subspecies by promotion of specific sub species. Those all could be options......

JoeFred
03-07-2011, 09:05 PM
Not wanting to stir up any political debate here, but just trying to get all my facts straight in my letter to congress. Do we know which side of the aisle this proposal for the budget cuts came from? I can't find anywhere which side supported this cut.

Travis, at this stage I think we would do well assuming this is an initiative of the bureaucracy within USF&WS and perhaps peripheral government agencies. It is being said that it’s not that USF&WS doesn’t have the money to keep the hatcheries open, it’s just their choice of how they want to spend their money. For several decades the service has been working to recover costs from responsible agencies to mitigate the adverse effects of federal water development projects while focusing on native fish recovery and restoration. The USF&W’s proposed budget justification states “If full reimbursement is not obtained from responsible agencies in 2012, Fisheries Program activities could be eliminated or substantially reduced at nine facilities until reimbursement is negotiated.”

If we do our job of contacting them, I'm guessing there will be pressure from both "sides of the aisle" to get the USF&WS's house in order and not at the expense of those whose enjoyment and .... more importantly... whose livelihood is at stake.

JF

ChemEAngler
03-07-2011, 09:58 PM
Travis, at this stage I think we would do well assuming this is an initiative of the bureaucracy within USF&WS and perhaps peripheral government agencies. It is being said that its not that USF&WS doesnt have the money to keep the hatcheries open, its just their choice of how they want to spend their money. For several decades the service has been working to recover costs from responsible agencies to mitigate the adverse effects of federal water development projects while focusing on native fish recovery and restoration. The USF&Ws proposed budget justification states If full reimbursement is not obtained from responsible agencies in 2012, Fisheries Program activities could be eliminated or substantially reduced at nine facilities until reimbursement is negotiated.

If we do our job of contacting them, I'm guessing there will be pressure from both "sides of the aisle" to get the USF&WS's house in order and not at the expense of those whose enjoyment and .... more importantly... whose livelihood is at stake.

JF

Thanks JoeFred.

Knothead
03-08-2011, 09:49 AM
JoeFred, well put!

Corbo
03-09-2011, 10:24 AM
Correction: HOW THEY SPEND OUR MONEY!

Simple fact is "they" will protect "their" budget so long as they protect their job.

JoeFred
03-09-2011, 11:31 AM
Correction: HOW THEY SPEND OUR MONEY!
....

Agreed.

JF

JoelO
03-09-2011, 01:26 PM
The petition noted on the South East Fly Fishing forum addresses the hatchery closings.

Make sure to sign the Petition
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/save-National-Fish-Hactheries/

whitefeather
03-10-2011, 12:25 PM
Don't mean to rant or hijack this thread, as I am only trying to "prove a point". In Indiana our so called conservative governor has "privatized" or out sourced darn near everything we have in the way of state property to some private entity. For example, the Australians now own our Indiana Toll Road.

In the past few years he had the DNR tear down our shooting range at Camp Atterbury/Johnson County Park and build a twenty million dollar state of the art shooting facility. He then outsourced it to a private company, to run. Mind you, the land was purchased with federal and state taxes on sporting equipment, ammunition, and hunting/fishing licenses. (Pittman-Robinson Fund)

At first it wasn't all that expensive to shoot. One dollar to get in and a dollar an hour to shoot. Gradually over a one year period of time the prices went to $9.00 an hour + $5.00 to get in to shoot, to pay the "pro" range master and other expenses. In less than a year and a half the place closed, because the private company went belly up. Now the range is only opened on weekends, manned by DNR personnel, and the price is still high. It was completely closed for a while.

I feel our money, our range, and our freedom to shoot at a safe place was hijacked by the politicians. I have sought legal counsel trying to get a class action law suit against the state, but I can't get enough people interested to accomplish that. They just seem to say "Oh, well." and accept it.

Also, he just gave 1500 acres of our hunting land back to the military for an expansion of office and supply buildings in trade for some land three counties away, which most of the hunters in my area won't ever go to because of the time and distance, not to mention expensive gas to get there.

My case in point is, all the politicians (both sides) see is dollar signs, and forget about sportsmen's rights in hopes that they will too. They will do the same things across our country to anything sportsman related to justify their lust for money and power.

Our governor was "W's" financial adviser in his first term as President. He is now going to run for President in 2012. Don't be deceived! The man also was on the executive board of Indiana Power and Light company and totally wiped out the employee's pension fund. Many people lost everything they had saved over their working careers.

As sportsmen and sportswomen, we need to bring **** to bear for any attempt to steal our dedicated tax dollars and cheat us out of what we have paid for.

Please write your representatives and denounce this (USF&W) with holding of our money for its intended purpose. They don't have the right to do it and it's probably outside the "spirit of the law" in their mission statement.

And I wouldn't trust TU any farther than I could throw the State of Massachusetts!

Just my opinion!

JoeFred
03-11-2011, 09:40 AM
Don't mean to rant or hijack this thread, as I am only trying to "prove a point"....


Whitefeather, a neat way to relate such important, but somewhat peripheral, issues to us is to create a new thread and link to it from the other.

Just my opinion.:smile:

JF

gutshot
03-11-2011, 09:50 AM
I must say I am interested to see how this turns out. From the information provided in this thread it appears that the federal government has made a paradigm shift in it's approach to inland fisheries now along with its change in approach to saltwater fisheries.

Whitefeather, I'm not sure I see your point as this is not an approach of privatization but appears to be no support with existing funds. Interesting you should bring up the privatization as recreational angler in saltwater around the country are being excluded from fisheries access while ownership of the fish is being privatized and given to commercial anglers.

Overall it looks like the federal leadership at the executive level is looking to diminish all recreational angling be it fresh or saltwater.

Corbo
03-11-2011, 01:21 PM
Obama doesn't fish.... well except the one time he was taken fly fishing while on the campaign trail.

When it comes to fishing the ONLY thing the President worries about is his wife's need to consume Maine Lobster everyday; he is in the pocket of the far left enviro-nut bags AND THIS INCLUDES TROUT UNLIMITED.

CORBO FACTOID: Most of our coldwater fisheries cannot be "restored" but they can be sustained with non-native trout to support quality fisheries and LOCAL COMMERCE!

Yes I am unfortunately a lifetime member and anyone who needs help throwing Massachusets OR Arlington VA in the ocean can call me for help. LOl

gutshot
03-11-2011, 01:25 PM
I am rather used to many TU defenders jumping onto a post anytime even a perceived slight is leveled at TU. Is the lack of action due to ignorance of the existence of these posts or because the accusations against TU are accurate?

Paula Begley
03-11-2011, 01:26 PM
Please do not turn this thread into an argument. I mean it.

Also, all caps is considered shouting. It's against site rules. Please don't do it. "Baiting" is against the site rules too. Please don't do it either.

Paula

whitefeather
03-11-2011, 01:35 PM
Gutshot,

I'm not against privatization per se, however there is a dark side to it where the "private side" is reserved for a select few, depending on who's in power.

They are doing this with a little bit of difference in strategies in different places.

DNR in our state has created a "land trust" from which they partner with certain private organizations. They post previous public land (water sheds) as being "endangered species" habitat (which they are not) and fence it off with out notice.

The DNR's law enforcement officers enforce the public laws for the benefit of the "private organizations" which I beleive is a huge conflict of interest. Land owners are losing their rights to their own land use because they are not complying with the whims of the "privates".

You have pointed out some worryingsom trends in this direction with your mention of salt water fishing.

Once again a "good sounding" idea takes on the undercurrents of the same old greed for power and bounty scheme.

I believe there has been, for a long time, a "silent movement" to eventually ban all sport fishing in the country, as well as hunting. This is just one of those dangerous precursers (IMO) of that movement.

whitefeather
03-11-2011, 01:57 PM
I am not against the local chapters of TU in any way. They do good work and put in a lot of their time and effort for the benefit of all. I'd like to help them!

I am however in contention with some policies and the overall arrogant attitude of TU national. I would gladly donate the money I have given to TU national to a local chapter that is doing some good, like the LR chapter. I don't really feel the need to whip out a membership card to prove I love trout fishing. And I would sleep better knowing my money was going for the purpose it was intended.

While the situation in my state differs from others around the country, it seems to me like a very widespread trend ending at the door of shutting down or crippling the fisheries we have in the smokies, the blue ridge, and the coastal waters. The more eyes and ears we have, standing with vigilance, the better organized we can be to stop these trends.

Corbo,

I think it will take more than the two of us! LOL!

Grannyknot
03-11-2011, 02:26 PM
Obama doesn't fish.... well except the one time he was taken fly fishing while on the campaign trail.

When it comes to fishing the ONLY thing the President worries about is his wife's need to consume Maine Lobster everyday; he is in the pocket of the far left enviro-nut bags AND THIS INCLUDES TROUT UNLIMITED.

CORBO FACTOID: Most of our coldwater fisheries cannot be "restored" but they can be sustained with non-native trout to support quality fisheries and LOCAL COMMERCE!

Yes I am unfortunately a lifetime member and anyone who needs help throwing Massachusets OR Arlington VA in the ocean can call me for help. LOl

You are one angry person.
I don't think I've read one positive thing from you since you joined this forum.
You're obviously very passionate about your hate for certain groups of people....you should re-direct that passion towards doing something to facilitate a better outcome to these situations, rather than ranting and raving on a small internet forum about who is at fault and who needs to be "thrown in the ocean".

I don't normally comment on the 10 pages of blame-game threads, but I can't help it any longer. There are a few members these days who seem to want to do nothing but post inflamatory comments and useless negativity. I am extremely turned off and have significantly decresased my participation here.

Good Day.

Paula Begley
03-11-2011, 02:35 PM
Oh, for crying out loud. I am watching this entire board. The reason I am watching this entire board is that I have gotten numerous complaints about the posting tone and demeanor.

People, please hold your tempers. I am handling it; I have had to issue warnings left, right and center and I am not happy about it. Three warnings equal being banned/suspended from the board.

Thanks,

Paula

Thread locked for the foreseeable future. So, might I suggest, while everyone cools their jets they go read the board rules. (http://littleriveroutfitters.com/forum/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_b)