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fourx
09-03-2011, 04:01 PM
Finally made it to the "jail" section of the Clinch today. Haven't been there since around June.
Had a hook break on a big fish that I never layed eyes on.
Caught 3-4 stockers and had to work hard for those.
Anybody doing well down there? Rodney?

4X

ChemEAngler
09-03-2011, 05:40 PM
4X,

I had planned on getting out on the lower river today, until I had a rough night with the new baby and hay fever. Been a few months since I have last fished the Clinch, and I was anxious to get out there this morning. May try to hit it up on Monday, depending on whether there is any electricity in the expected showers.

From the sound of your post it sounds like I didn't miss much.

If I get out there I will report back on my trip.

waterwolf
09-03-2011, 10:19 PM
I fished it last Sunday, and quite frankly it was nearly impossible. I spent around 4 hours on the river and landed 4, stuck and lost maybe 6 others.

This is going to sound incredibly arrogant, but as a general rule if I spend 4 hours in the water I did, with the water conditions which were present I can easily average 25-30 fish per trip landed, and half again that number stuck and lost.

This is the second time in 2 weeks I have had this experience, and have just decided it has it out for me, and am refusing to go back like a child. :biggrin:

The fish are there, but figuring out what they want to eat, is baffling this Clinch veteran. I have talked with several other old hands that have gotten their azz handed to them as well in the last few weeks, so it must be contagious.

fourx
09-04-2011, 09:25 AM
Yeah, makes me want to go to the Henry's Fork where the fishing's easy!
Fishing above the weir has been good but TVAs only giving small windows to fish there.

4X

Rodonthefly
09-04-2011, 11:47 PM
Oh booo whooo! You bunch of cry babies. They are there, you just have to know what to use. Those corn flys and san jaun worms are killin' them!

I don't know how the river has been for the past couple of weeks, but 3 weeks ago, it was on fire. My buddy Wilson landed is biggest yet, and he seen backing once on another nice one. Like ol' wolf said a 3-4 hour trip is a 20+ day and missing that many more. Well this has been the case for the last 4 trips for me and Wilson. I'm going in the morning drive up and down the river you may see my truck. I'm not saying where I have been fishing but those of you that know what I drive. Look for my truck and come on out. I will say this we have found that they aren't eatting the 18's this summer. You need to be fishing the same flys but drop down to a 20 or 22.

Good luck and hope to see you guys out there.

Flat Fly n
09-05-2011, 08:39 AM
That's interesting......I touched 10 on Saturday and lost 3 really good fish after long runs because my usually reliable terminal knot broke all three times. I guess my Seaguar has gone bad.

Oh yeah. All on one pattern and #18 at that. But granted, it was slow and low where I was. I really like a good wind to get things going.


PS...you don't do an overnight soak in Green Giant do you prior to fishing the next day?

psnapp
09-05-2011, 01:09 PM
Fished Clinch 8/19 and 8/20 2-3 miles above 61. Landed several really nice rainbows on 8/19 with a couple getting into backing. Went back to same general area on 8/20 and didn't get a hit! Go figure...

Phil

Flat Fly n
09-05-2011, 01:45 PM
The Clinch is a bipolar river. I've had great days, then called friends..."it's on fire, let's go".....nothing the next day.

I am beginning to believe one theory I have heard lately is the stripers are pushing the trout around the river. Friend of mine saw a school of stripers, not carp, yesterday is some deeper cuts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giHie68eZ94

fourx
09-05-2011, 02:58 PM
Rain, rain, rain, rain, rain.
What a day.

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z468/fmf777/IMGP3937.jpg

waterwolf
09-05-2011, 11:24 PM
The Clinch is a bipolar river. I've had great days, then called friends..."it's on fire, let's go".....nothing the next day.

I am beginning to believe one theory I have heard lately is the stripers are pushing the trout around the river. Friend of mine saw a school of stripers, not carp, yesterday is some deeper cuts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giHie68eZ94
Stripers have been bad this year, however there is a bunch that are no longer with us :biggrin: "Someone" I know has been working on them the past few weeks. Rest in peace.


Went back today in the monsoon, and fishing was ten times better then it has been in the last few weeks. Much closer to normal.

Up until a few weeks ago it was a normal summer, then all of a sudden fish went missing. Granted it was only two trips, but 2 bad trips feel like an eternity to me.

BTW I fished 16's today, homey don't do 20's and smaller.

Flat Fly n
09-06-2011, 03:01 PM
Any day you want to harvest a few stripers from up there I will pay gas, row, or whatever to help out.

May they rest in peace, on my grill!

cockeye valdez
09-07-2011, 10:23 AM
I fish as much as I can, work hard at it, both me and my fishing pal. We're as serious about it as most. We have fished here, out west and in between. We fish with serious fisher persons who are serious about the sport. We regularly fish the most technical tail waters in this area and we catch fish.

I fish the Clinch, love to fish it early spring, have had great days, with strong fish, not quantities but quality. We have found that when the water is skinny is fishing is tough. We only see hatches for about 4 weeks. We don't regularly catch the quantities the above posts and my first thought is to call b.s.:confused:
I will admit it, I maybe average at best when it comes to fly fishing but I don't read many reports of regular catches of 20-25 fish. If you can produce these catches, I'd be grateful to carry the net and learn. I ain't too proud, I'll carry your net.

br549
09-07-2011, 11:24 AM
I don't think I would call b.s. There are those on here that grew up fishing that stream. There are those that spent many years rowing that stream for pay. They may know a little bit more about it than others. There are areas on that river where 20-25 is very common. There are other high traffic areas where it is rare.

ChemEAngler
09-07-2011, 12:46 PM
We don't regularly catch the quantities the above posts and my first thought is to call b.s.:confused:

I will admit it, I maybe average at best when it comes to fly fishing but I don't read many reports of regular catches of 20-25 fish. If you can produce these catches, I'd be grateful to carry the net and learn. I ain't too proud, I'll carry your net.

I can't speak to the fishing on the Clinch as of late since I haven't been on it since July 8th.

However, I definitely would not call B.S.

Knowing a couple of these guys, I know of their fishing prowess.

Shoot, I have even had a good number of 20+ fish days on the Grinch, and there are plenty of better fisherman than me on here.

I keep a log of every fishing trip I have been on since 2007. Last year I fished it 15 times with the best day being 24 fish landed on May 7th (3:45 to 6:30) using #16 BHPT's at the start of the sulfur hatch. Best fish was 17" and the smallest was 9". My worst day was a 4 fish outing on March 26th. I keep these records as reference from year to year to help me better prepare for when and where to go as well as the fly selection I should be prepared for.

Unfortunately, this year the best day I have had on my beloved tailwater was an 8 fish outing on June 3rd. However, I have only fished it 5 times since January. And for the record my worst day was a 2 fish outing on January 22nd in which I spent the day dunking my rod in the water trying to eliminate the ice from the guides.

That being said, I am very reluctant to call B.S. on here because I know there are some phenomenal fishermen who frequent here. For that matter I have seen people posting 75+ fish days in the Smokies, and I thought that was a bunch of junk as well. Until I fished with a couple of these guys and they were catching 10 fish to my one. It is all a matter of how developed a person is at that particular type of fishing and your confidence level.

Just watching an accomplished fisherman is a great way to learn, and I think that everybody should try to observe any time you are on the river and see somebody else having more success than you are. I try to observe without approaching every time I get a chance. Some people can be put off when you approach, and if I want to quiz them on the day I just wait until I see them exiting the river.

*Edit*
I did not throw these stats up here in an effort to inflate my ego or gain respect. I basically stated them in an attempt to show that even an average fisherman like myself can catch good numbers on any river when they invest the time and patience in learning it's behavior throughout the year. Fishing it during the good times and bad, not just when a little yellow bug is hatching. Which I find probably 75% of the people who fish the Clinch do.

Flat Fly n
09-07-2011, 05:50 PM
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee78/tnflyfish/scan0001.jpg

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee78/tnflyfish/scan0004.jpg

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee78/tnflyfish/bigcatchbmp.jpg

You poor thing.......
The kid in this picture is now 23 and married. I started fishing the Clinch before he and probably you were born. Yes I know every hole, slot, run, and which rock to stand on in the public access areas. yes, I fish long color neutral leaders and downstream alot as not to overline a fish and spook them. Yes, I can outwade most folks because I am 6'6". yes, I have never fished a Clinch River midge (Ron Whaley's fly) or Zebra midge or any other popular fly that every fish and his brother sees, and yes I have relations with landowners that allows me private access, but I still love above the weir from time to time. Oh and yes, a bad day is less than 10 fish, and a good day, you would just call "double BS", so there is no sense in fussing over fish counts. I wish I could find my old Orvis fish book were I too kept detailed records of counts, flows, depths of indicators where fish were caught, but you would call triple BS on that. IF you don't like the public stuff, save up your pennies for a driftboat like I did, but now I use a FishCat from time to time to get to Peach Orchard shoals. Try walking up to Lwellyn Island and start fishing there. Three great shoals, and beyond. We used to call that area the shark tank. Put in the time before you condemn those that have.


Eat your heart out, and oh yeah, don't bet against Waterwolf, or Seagull either.

PS...anybody can catch a fish out west, (well except me on Silver Creek, I still can't figure out that place) or the airlines would go broke in the summer time taking newbies to the hallowed rivers.

MadisonBoats
09-07-2011, 07:16 PM
......We don't regularly catch the quantities the above posts and my first thought is to call b.s.:confused:
I will admit it, I maybe average at best when it comes to fly fishing but I don't read many reports of regular catches of 20-25 fish. If you can produce these catches, I'd be grateful to carry the net and learn. I ain't too proud, I'll carry your net.

I average about 30 fish in a 3-4 hour time frame. If they are not hitting in that range; I go home.:eek: I have had some slow days when the barometer has been jumping up and down.

oldschool
09-07-2011, 07:25 PM
Ahhh, times they have changed. Many of us cut our teeth on a time when the Clinch river had distinguished gentlemen such as Ronnie Joe Whaley and other mentors like Eddie George. They were fine men that wanted to pass along their knowledge to young idiots such as myself and others. These were men that didn't seek any kind on acknowledgement or thanks for their knowledge. They just knew it was time to let someone else know what they knew. They were dang sure not people that disclosed their knowledge on the internet, they just took young anglers with a passion for the sport under their wings. I was the lucky receipient of lots of their knowledge. Yeah we all still have tough days on the Clinch, it doles pleasure one day and punishment the next. However I know many of the guys cloaked behind "internet names" and they all know that the river can provide some phenomenal days of angling. I feel sure the at the Waterwolf and whatever Phil called himself after John Poore's boat are telling you the truth. Young Travis aka crap I can't even remember his internet name is, said it pretty darn well, be careful about calling B.S., there could be a world you aren't even aware of out there. Watch some old farts catching fish and politely ask what they are doing as they leave the river. It served me well many years ago, and will continue to as I learn into the future. I sure hope I'll be asking someone many years younger than me what the heck they are catching all those fish on...

psnapp
09-07-2011, 08:08 PM
20-25 fish per day on the Clinch is not b.s. --- I fish with and know several people who do that routinely. I, on the other hand, just appreciate catching a few and having a good time!

Phil

fourx
09-07-2011, 08:14 PM
I think I caught a bunch of fish on the Clinch one day and I'm not especially good.

4X

Flat Fly n
09-07-2011, 10:53 PM
I miss Ron Whaley. The man fished a 7wt rod and could cast across the Clinch with it, all the while with a 7x tippett and a cigar hanging from his mouth.

First person to ever show me a bead head PTN when they came out.

PS...I still have John Poore's boat...didn't change the name....and that's about the only thing I haven't change except the motor! HA....it runs like a scalded dog!

here's a pic of some low and slow, and gin clear water fishing...
might take note of the 17 1/2 foot leader. Oh yeah, I don't use a silly loop to loop connector, cause when you do catch a really big fish those don't go thru the guides well and break off your fish.
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee78/tnflyfish/IMGP1292.jpg

Another recent photo. Fishing a sculpin imitation. pS.....I showed this fly and more of the ones I tie at Troutfest for anybody that stopped by. Sink tip line, might want to try that instead of calling BS to those of us that have figured out SOME of the techniques...I'm still looking for a 8-10# brown. I know where a big bow over 24-26" hangs out, but he is smarter than me, for now.
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee78/tnflyfish/IMGP1042.jpg

waterwolf
09-07-2011, 11:12 PM
I fish as much as I can, work hard at it, both me and my fishing pal. We're as serious about it as most. We have fished here, out west and in between. We fish with serious fisher persons who are serious about the sport. We regularly fish the most technical tail waters in this area and we catch fish.

I fish the Clinch, love to fish it early spring, have had great days, with strong fish, not quantities but quality. We have found that when the water is skinny is fishing is tough. We only see hatches for about 4 weeks. We don't regularly catch the quantities the above posts and my first thought is to call b.s.:confused:
I will admit it, I maybe average at best when it comes to fly fishing but I don't read many reports of regular catches of 20-25 fish. If you can produce these catches, I'd be grateful to carry the net and learn. I ain't too proud, I'll carry your net.
I read this post this morning, and laughed when I read it to be honest. I am just now getting around to posting a humble ;) yet blunt response.

There are more then a few of the posters in this very thread who routinely catch 30+ fish in a half day on the Clinch, including myself. How do I know this? I have fished with, near, and around them for over 20 years. Granted that makes me sound old but at 36 I am far from old despite the pains I feel each morning, and the trouble I had tying a fly on this morning for some unknown freaking reason. :biggrin:

Screen-name "Oldschool" in his prime would embarrass everyone on this forum, period. When I was a younger pup and was even more arrogant, I can remember heading to the river with him, and thinking I got this cat. Little did I know I was about to be subjected to a thorough scorching at the hands of a man who caries days worth of gear in one shirt pocket. I bet age has taken a toll on him, and he has trouble even walking to the river now :biggrin:

Flat Fly N' has long been one of the "ninja's" of the Clinch. I will atest to his use of flies which most have never seen, and certainly never considered using, and he uses them with deadly results. His specialty for years was above the weir at low water, which can easily humble even the best tailwater folks.

Same things can be said for psnapp, fourx, and chem, they have all been around and know how to negotiate the river. No offense to other older Clinch folks who I left out.

Calling me BS on me or any of the other long time Clinch fisherman, is quite simply.....foolish.

Personally I grew up riding my bike from my house in Norris to the river almost every afternoon when the weather was decent. I skipped school most spring afternoons to fish, rather then pursue what could have been a pretty decent baseball career. I know every square inch of ledge, cut, riffle, trough, depression, etc etc in the river, from the dam to 61 bridge. I know almost to the minute when the water will hit any given area on the river, and am extremely aware of what water flows/levels offer the most ideal fishing conditions. In other words, I generally know when a fish is going to eat my fly before they even know they are about to eat it. I would say the same for many of the others who frequent this forum.

Add to that a healthy dose of travel to locales all across this country as well as foreign destinations, and I have a pretty good resume when it comes to catching fish on a fly/.

So yes, the above is probably sounding arrogant and is, but at the same time calling BS on something/someone you know nothing about is incredibly arrogant or misinformed (pick your poison) and I would caution you from this thought process. Most likely one of us you are calling BS on might be the person you bump into who passes on a shred of our knowledge which might help you be more successful.

I am sure 20-25 fish sounds like BS to you, but I was being a little humble for once. Generally it is probably more like 35-40 or more depending on the day. But it isn't about the numbers, I just used the numbers to try and illustrate a point.

My final point in this nightmarishly arrogant response, is that if myself or some of the others mention tough fishing. You might want to listen, and pay attention, as those words don't happen often, and you might learn something if you chose to heed the words of those with decades of experience.

MadisonBoats
09-08-2011, 06:17 AM
I miss Ron Whaley. The man fished a 7wt rod and could cast across the Clinch with it, all the while with a 7x tippett and a cigar hanging from his mouth.

First person to ever show me a bead head PTN when they came out.

PS...I still have John Poore's boat...didn't change the name....and that's about the only thing I haven't change except the motor! HA....it runs like a scalded dog!

here's a pic of some low and slow, and gin clear water fishing...
might take note of the 17 1/2 foot leader. Oh yeah, I don't use a silly loop to loop connector, cause when you do catch a really big fish those don't go thru the guides well and break off your fish.
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee78/tnflyfish/IMGP1292.jpg

Another recent photo. Fishing a sculpin imitation. pS.....I showed this fly and more of the ones I tie at Troutfest for anybody that stopped by. Sink tip line, might want to try that instead of calling BS to those of us that have figured out SOME of the techniques...I'm still looking for a 8-10# brown. I know where a big bow over 24-26" hangs out, but he is smarter than me, for now.
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee78/tnflyfish/IMGP1042.jpg

Phil; ugh t oh... you let a pic of your streamer sneak out:biggrin:

MadisonBoats
09-08-2011, 06:21 AM
I read this post this morning, and laughed when I read it to be honest. I am just now getting around to posting a humble ;) yet blunt response.

There are more then a few of the posters in this very thread who routinely catch 30+ fish in a half day on the Clinch, including myself. How do I know this? I have fished with, near, and around them for over 20 years. Granted that makes me sound old but at 36 I am far from old despite the pains I feel each morning, and the trouble I had tying a fly on this morning for some unknown freaking reason. :biggrin:

Screen-name "Oldschool" in his prime would embarrass everyone on this forum, period. When I was a younger pup and was even more arrogant, I can remember heading to the river with him, and thinking I got this cat. Little did I know I was about to be subjected to a thorough scorching at the hands of a man who caries days worth of gear in one shirt pocket. I bet age has taken a toll on him, and he has trouble even walking to the river now :biggrin:

Flat Fly N' has long been one of the "ninja's" of the Clinch. I will atest to his use of flies which most have never seen, and certainly never considered using, and he uses them with deadly results. His specialty for years was above the weir at low water, which can easily humble even the best tailwater folks.

Same things can be said for psnapp, fourx, and chem, they have all been around and know how to negotiate the river. No offense to other older Clinch folks who I left out.

Calling me BS on me or any of the other long time Clinch fisherman, is quite simply.....foolish.

Personally I grew up riding my bike from my house in Norris to the river almost every afternoon when the weather was decent. I skipped school most spring afternoons to fish, rather then pursue what could have been a pretty decent baseball career. I know every square inch of ledge, cut, riffle, trough, depression, etc etc in the river, from the dam to 61 bridge. I know almost to the minute when the water will hit any given area on the river, and am extremely aware of what water flows/levels offer the most ideal fishing conditions. In other words, I generally know when a fish is going to eat my fly before they even know they are about to eat it. I would say the same for many of the others who frequent this forum.

Add to that a healthy dose of travel to locales all across this country as well as foreign destinations, and I have a pretty good resume when it comes to catching fish on a fly/.

So yes, the above is probably sounding arrogant and is, but at the same time calling BS on something/someone you know nothing about is incredibly arrogant or misinformed (pick your poison) and I would caution you from this thought process. Most likely one of us you are calling BS on might be the person you bump into who passes on a shred of our knowledge which might help you be more successful.

I am sure 20-25 fish sounds like BS to you, but I was being a little humble for once. Generally it is probably more like 35-40 or more depending on the day. But it isn't about the numbers, I just used the numbers to try and illustrate a point.

My final point in this nightmarishly arrogant response, is that if myself or some of the others mention tough fishing. You might want to listen, and pay attention, as those words don't happen often, and you might learn something if you chose to heed the words of those with decades of experience.

It is ok can man! I do not think he meant to call you out. I think he is probably just curious on what you are fishing. I would not take one post personally. I do understand the frustration to try and acknowledge and support your posts as well though...

waterwolf
09-08-2011, 06:58 AM
He certainly has a strange of way of asking what a person might use to have success or how they go about having success.

Be assured my worries about him and his comments, lasted about 30 seconds.

At the end of the day if he wants to call BS, then so be it, that is his right. I certainly won't lose any sleep over it.

JohnH0802
09-08-2011, 08:22 AM
Waterwolf,
I think you took his comment out of context a little....as I read the post he said is first thought was to call BS....and ended the post making an offer of carrying a net to try and learn about how be better at fishing the clinch. I think it was really somebody that was just a little frustrated after a tough day. I think your reaction to first reading his post and laughing was probably really what he was looking for....just my two cents.

John

Green Weenie
09-08-2011, 08:50 AM
It does sound like B.S. ....

until you're standing downstream of one of these guys and they are absolutely wearing them out. Seeing is believing, my friend.

Also, most of these guys (when asked) will gladly tell you where they caught them, how they caught them, and will usually give you a handful of flies.

"Don't confuse ignorance with a point of view." - Dilbert

Rodonthefly
09-08-2011, 11:04 AM
I can test to those of us that put a big numbers, and big fish. Wolf, Phil, Chem, Scott Rogers, Mike, the late great Ron Whaley, John Thruman and the list can keep on going of Clinch vets. All of the names that I have listed I have learned and listened to all my life. I have fished the river my whole life again I don't think as my self as old (30). But I the same as Jim use to skip school to fish this river. My dad took me to the Creel when I was ( I can't remmeber how old I was) if I'm not mistaken Scott and Jim sold me my first Orvis fly rod. Do you remember that Wolf? It was then I spent countless hours in the Clinch, watching some of these older guys flat out smoke them. Beinng the young pup I was I was floored by the numbers they caught. That's when I learned to listen more then I spoke, asked questions when I could, and these guys would answer them and hand me flys out of their boxes. Sometimes even giving me the fly they were using. I feel like I now can hold my own when fishing next to any of these guys I listed. In return I feel as I have passed on alot of knowledge that was given to me and would share anything anyone asked me, sometimes I won't say the spot sometimes, for I don't want to be standing shoulder to shoulder with others. But you can take two flys to the Clinch and catch fish anywhere on that river between the dam and 61 bridge.

I guess what I'm getting at is sometimes it's best to keep your mouth shut and listen to one another. You can gain alot more when you listen more and speak less.

cockeye valdez
09-08-2011, 03:30 PM
Wow, did that get a rise ! I was not calling anyone out or for that matter accusing anyone of embellishing quantities, I was simply stating that I had not had similar experiences on the river and yes, I would very much like to know the secrets to this sort of success.

By the responses it would appear as though I may have to carry the net for several masters of the sport.

I know some of the individuals mentioned in the previous post. Have sat with them at tying tables and had conversations with them. I respect them and they have even ask me to take them to the so. ho. I am happy to take them.

My post was not directed at anyone, just an observation.

offer still stands, I'll carry your net.

David Knapp
09-08-2011, 07:44 PM
Wow, did that get a rise ! I was not calling anyone out or for that matter accusing anyone of embellishing quantities, I was simply stating that I had not had similar experiences on the river and yes, I would very much like to know the secrets to this sort of success.

By the responses it would appear as though I may have to carry the net for several masters of the sport.

I know some of the individuals mentioned in the previous post. Have sat with them at tying tables and had conversations with them. I respect them and they have even ask me to take them to the so. ho. I am happy to take them.

My post was not directed at anyone, just an observation.

offer still stands, I'll carry your net.


You can come carry a net for me sometime...I have 2-3 trips of experience on the Clinch and can show you exactly how to catch weedfish, stickfish, leaffish, treefish, and rockfish (heavy ones but not the kind that pull back)... :rolleyes: :biggrin:

waterwolf
09-08-2011, 11:01 PM
Wow, did that get a rise ! I was not calling anyone out or for that matter accusing anyone of embellishing quantities, I was simply stating that I had not had similar experiences on the river and yes, I would very much like to know the secrets to this sort of success.

By the responses it would appear as though I may have to carry the net for several masters of the sport.

I know some of the individuals mentioned in the previous post. Have sat with them at tying tables and had conversations with them. I respect them and they have even ask me to take them to the so. ho. I am happy to take them.

My post was not directed at anyone, just an observation.

offer still stands, I'll carry your net.
I couldn't handle having someone with me that referred to the South Holston as the So Ho. Sorry, but it is the South Holston, not to be confused with the Holston.

I guess we can start calling the Clinch, the Cli just so it sounds cooler then the real name.:biggrin:

You don't want to fish with me or near me, I have horrible gas, and curse an insane amount. I also talk to myself, and fall in alot.

In all seriousness, success on the Clinch boils down to keeping things simple and really understanding how the Clinch fish react to water levels, by far the greatest determining factor for success is the water flow/level IMO. Catch it right and fishing is amazing, catch it wrong and the fish will punish you.

As others will note, it is a fickle nasty mean river that is unforgiving and gives nothing away for free. Except for brookies and stockers, which will eat anything presented any way you choose on any water level.

Corbo
09-09-2011, 05:39 AM
Seems to me that calling BS requires no explanation and no rationalization.

Poor manners; make him carry the net, row the boat and leave his own rod at home while he keeps his mouth shut and pays attention...

If you show some respect perhaps you'll learn something.

Now let's all be nice to one another. LOL Hey, this is fishing; we don't need to be so darn serious!!!

cockeye valdez
09-09-2011, 09:46 AM
it is the South Fork of the Holston River Waterwolf, but who is counting (sorry, couldn't help the pun).

I would like to have a final word especially to anyone who feels insulted by my post.

I never intended to call anyone out. If you, and I know some of you do, catch the quantities stated, I WILL CARRY THE NET FOR YOU AND LEARN FROM YOU. When I hire a guide, my first instruction to them is TEACH ME HOW TO CATCH FISH ON THIS RIVER, I am a student of the sport and life.

I hope this will be put to rest. With favorable release schedules from T.V.A. maybe we can all go out and catch fish and forget it.



cockeye

MadisonBoats
09-09-2011, 11:48 AM
cockeye

Don't worry about it bro! Some people get testy at times and some people are more matter of fact. We all have our temperaments and ways of handling them.:rolleyes: I do try to lend an optimistic and believing approach to most forum members' posts. You will learn who know what they are talking about and what kind of person they are by reviewing their posts.

Anyhow; I rarely invite people to fish with me. Nothing personal; just that I usually like doing my own thing. But; you are welcome to fish with me some time. I can offer you kindness and a few pointers from my treasure chest if you are interested. Just shoot me an email some time.

For a Clinch Report; I have not fished the lower end of the river in about a month due to the coal creek runoff. Plus; I do not like the slack water around the church area. Above is a different story. I caught my biggest fish this year on a fly rod yesterday. It was a 20" brown and it took me about 10 minutes to get him in. I complicated things by not taking my net. I ended up having to trap him again my body to land it. I ended up with about 25 fish in about 2 1/2 hours. That is about average for this time of year. The water clarity was dark due to the clouds. There was a massive hatch of small gnats and a few large-size midge hatches. Fall is my favorite time of year to fly fish and it is just now starting.:biggrin:

psnapp
09-09-2011, 01:14 PM
CV -- no problem. These suggestions have already been mentioned earlier, and I agree that 2 ways to flatten the Clinch learning curve is to :

1. befriend and fish with people who "know the ropes" (I have spent yrs on my own just learning a few basics)
2. float the river as much as possible --- it's the best way I know to get to the less heavily fished areas (and the lower Clinch you mentioned usually takes a pounding on weekends).

Good luck and hope to see you out there some time. I'll be happy to share what little I know with you, but I'm still learning after a lot of years of trying!

Phil

waterwolf
09-09-2011, 10:26 PM
it is the South Fork of the Holston River Waterwolf, but who is counting (sorry, couldn't help the pun).

I would like to have a final word especially to anyone who feels insulted by my post.

I never intended to call anyone out. If you, and I know some of you do, catch the quantities stated, I WILL CARRY THE NET FOR YOU AND LEARN FROM YOU. When I hire a guide, my first instruction to them is TEACH ME HOW TO CATCH FISH ON THIS RIVER, I am a student of the sport and life.

I hope this will be put to rest. With favorable release schedules from T.V.A. maybe we can all go out and catch fish and forget it.



cockeye
You didn't insult me, heck if I got insulted that easily I would cry all the time. I just wanted to set the record straight, along with others who did the same.

I would be happy to help you out if we cross paths on the river sometime. But I wade fish alone, can't stand going wading with others as there are times I want to stay/leave when others I am with have different plans. I also fish with the same folks each weekend, and it is a nightmare making room for everyone in the boat each day.

I am pretty easy to recognize on the river, or so I have been told. Best of luck with the fish.

oldschool
09-10-2011, 08:30 AM
He's easy to recognize by his beady little Weasel eyes and scampering demeanor down the river bank.:biggrin:

Trico
09-10-2011, 02:26 PM
Following all of the posts on this thread the first thing I'll say is I hope everything is settled and there are no hard feelings between anyone. I would also like to say some very good points have been made here on learning to fish a river. It would seem obvious to me some of the individuals here put in a lot of time on the river. I do not know Shawn Madison aka Madison Boats. But I get the impression he spends a lot of time on the Clinch. I have viewed his photos and videos he has made. No doubt others here have put a lot of time in on the Clinch. I mention Shawn because of his past posts. I hope I am not being over familiar and taking liberties by calling him by his first name! I think this is what it takes. I also would not be surprised if he is very skilled at fishing the Clinch. I think too many times anglers get the idea because we have fished a lot and around the country we should do well everywhere we go. But to do really well it takes time to get a handle on things as every piece of water has it's own quirks. These are best learned thru experience. Our past experiences and general knowledge we have certainly help but unfamiliar water or water we have limited experience on is ....well....different. Being all of this is just my opinion it may not account for much either!

Flat Fly n
09-10-2011, 07:49 PM
Phil; ugh t oh... you let a pic of your streamer sneak out:biggrin:

I stole most of that from Seagull's (D.C.)dadgum "Christmas Bugger".....I just changed the material, used a bonefish hook for strength, and attached a rudder for the tail. ( I showed it at Troutfest )

PS. The last time we fished together in my drift boat, Seagull had over a dozen before we got to Peach Orchard,and by about Offut Shoals I was heard to say, "please don't make me use a bugger". He caught an insane amount of fish that day years ago, as I was trying to "match the hatch".

PSS...if someone wants to know what I am fishing, wade on out, just have a life jacket on.

waterwolf
09-10-2011, 10:51 PM
He's easy to recognize by his beady little Weasel eyes and scampering demeanor down the river bank.:biggrin:
I am getting too old too scamper, I just scurry anymore. I was told last weekend, that I appeared like a phantom when the fog lifted. Apparently the gentleman downstream of me was having a tough time figuring out why fish were free jumping upstream of him for no apparent reason :biggrin:

MadisonBoats
09-11-2011, 08:50 AM
....I mention Shawn because of his past posts. I hope I am not being over familiar and taking liberties by calling him by his first name! I think this is what it takes. I also would not be surprised if he is very skilled at fishing the Clinch... Trico, I appreciate your kind respect and praise. It seems like you have some old-school manners and I have great respect for that trait. In response to your assumptions; I do not like to talk about my fishing skills as I am an extremely humble person. I think my fishing style is one that is UN-ihibited and could best be described as "free-style". I do not worry about heeding to traditional styles of casting, presentation, or getting focused on one issue or another. I have found that my progress/enjoyment has come from learning how to adapt and read what is going on around me. I went through a huge learning curve and I was always open to the helpful tips of others, but not governed to them. I guess that I am trying to say; define what YOU want out of fly fishing and challenge yourself to reach it. Focus on enjoying each and every moment. Most of all; fight like **** to keep negativity and influences from poisoning your spirit. We have a limited amount of opportunities to do things in life that make us happy and we should do the most to take advantage of them. I was humbled on the Clinch Saturday. I only caught about a dozen fish and it was a challenge. I am thinking the full-moon may have been the impedance.:rolleyes:

I stole most of that from Seagull's (D.C.)dadgum "Christmas Bugger".....I just changed the material, used a bonefish hook for strength, and attached a rudder for the tail. ( I showed it at Troutfest )
.... Throwing streamers is probably my weakest area in fly fishing. I have a pretty good comfort zone with my casting and presentation. However; I am limited in experience and utilizing them. I have been working on this to try and land a few of more larger fish. Thanks for sharing your advice and tips.

I am getting too old too scamper, I just scurry anymore... I can relate. I feel like an oaf stumbling around the river. My body has been challenging me with back issues that past few years.

fourx
09-12-2011, 10:23 AM
Back to the original topic...
Fished 61 bridge area HARD yesterday. Skunked!
I do not see the obvious signs of any quantity of fish down there that I saw last year.
They are not in the same riffles or the same holes as they even were during the sulphur hatch.
Have the fish moved up or downriver? Yes!
Sure, there are single rises here and there but not many.
There are just not many fish down there holding. A few, yes, but not many.
In my opinion, every river is cyclical. Whether TVA's flows or the insect population dictates this I don't know.
I just know that last year I caught 47 trout on a cdc comparadun in one day and on another I caught 18 fish over 16". This isn't the case this year.
So, tell the trout that 4X is getting PO'd and they need to get their butts back down there!

4X

MadisonBoats
09-12-2011, 01:42 PM
Back to the original topic...
Fished 61 bridge area HARD yesterday. Skunked!
I do not see the obvious signs of any quantity of fish down there that I saw last year.
They are not in the same riffles or the same holes as they even were during the sulphur hatch.
Have the fish moved up or downriver? Yes!
Sure, there are single rises here and there but not many.
There are just not many fish down there holding. A few, yes, but not many.
In my opinion, every river is cyclical. Whether TVA's flows or the insect population dictates this I don't know.
I just know that last year I caught 47 trout on a cdc comparadun in one day and on another I caught 18 fish over 16". This isn't the case this year.
So, tell the trout that 4X is getting PO'd and they need to get their butts back down there!

4X

If find that the trout have been buffered at the Lewallyn Shoal and up-river. The striper fish have been doing some damage on the fish downstream this year with all of the consistent-heavy-generation. I never fish that area any more. It just does not appeal to me like it used to...

waterwolf
09-12-2011, 11:30 PM
I floated from Cane Creek to 61 two weeks ago and rest assured there are as many fish in the Clinch as there usually are.

However, I noticed some things.

1. Not nearly the numbers of 8"-10" fish as usual, I think the heavy flood gate flows almost all spring did a real number on the fingerling stockings.

2. There is more quality fish 14"-18" then I have ever seen in the river, period. Huge pods, 30-50 fish in areas that should have 3 fish total. Saw a couple of groups which easily had 100 fish in them.

3. Fish are unbelievably wary, spook from anything that touches the surface of the river. Due to maturity level of the fish IMO.

4. Fish are not holding in normal areas, holding in much shallower water IMO because of the higher flows since the end of July.


There have been no more or less stripers in the Clinch this year then in years past from what I have seen. Sure they eat some fish, but that isn't the issue.

IMO the issue is several things combined. Lack of small fish doesn't allow for steady action in between larger more wiley fish. Unbelievable pressure daily on several stretches of water that used to be very productive. Places that used to get fished 2 times a week, now get fished every single day for hours and hours on end. Bizarre flows with lots of 1 generator since the end of July which causes the fish IMO to prefer feeding with more water over their heads, and more places to spread out.

I was at a point 2 weeks ago where I was so arrogant I thought that the reason I wasn't catching fish like I should is because they weren't there. In other words "If there was fish here I would be catching them, because I am a **** ninja on the Clinch." Correct answer: Wrong!!!

The fish are there, no one is a ninja on the clinch, and it is **** tough fishing right now for even those of us with many seasons under our belts.

The best day I have had in the last few weeks was about 3 weeks at 61 bridge, literally in front of the Church on a Saturday morning. I spanked that a_ _ , in a crowd of folks. Nice fish as well, not fresh stockers, but dang nice fish with some right around 19" or so. So the striper theory can end right there, as there are as many stripers in that portion of river with the water running as anywhere. I know because I have killed plenty that were caught in that stretch over the past few years. :biggrin:

MadisonBoats
09-13-2011, 12:11 AM
.......
3. Fish are unbelievably wary, spook from anything that touches the surface of the river. Due to maturity level of the fish IMO.

........So the striper theory can end right there, as there are as many stripers in that portion of river with the water running as anywhere. I know because I have killed plenty that were caught in that stretch over the past few years. :biggrin:

Yeah, I am aware of it. It is a natural transitional area for the striper to move from the upper melton reservoir area to the tail-water area without getting in to shallow areas. Then; they can move back down at they same pace of the river drain down. I surmise that the striper-pressure have the trout spooked and holding in shallow areas in relation to this year's cfs schedule. I do not think there are more stripers; just a change in their predatory habitat.

waterwolf
09-13-2011, 07:24 AM
Yeah, I am aware of it. It is a natural transitional area for the striper to move from the upper melton reservoir area to the tail-water area without getting in to shallow areas. Then; they can move back down at they same pace of the river drain down. I surmise that the striper-pressure have the trout spooked and holding in shallow areas in relation to this year's cfs schedule. I do not think there are more stripers; just a change in their predatory habitat.


The stripers have been doing the same basic stuff for about 20 years now, and there were probably more of them back during the mid 90's, and then again about 4 years ago then there are right now.

I personally do not think the fish move riverwide because of the stripers. I do however, believe there are 2 or 3 areas where there are almost no trout, and it is because they are traditional low water striper hangouts.

Keep in mind there is plenty of browns in the river which do probably more damage than any striper.

In my opinion the reason you find fish in shallower water, is that it is easier for them to feed and with the flows over the last month +, they shift their holding areas to those places where they can easily feed with the higher flows. Also, the bottom of the river warms faster in these areas which speeds up the insect activity in the shallower water. This makes them attractive areas to feed as there is more available food then in the deeper water.

As long as I have fished the Clinch the fish have always loved to pull into shallow water to feed, but pretty much the same can be said for most trout rivers.

One last note on the stripers, the Cumberland in KY has more stripers then any place I have ever fished. Back in the hay day it was not uncommon to have 2-4 fish eaten off your line during a day of fishing by stripers. They were literally there by the thousands, **** there were more people guiding for stripers then guided for trout. I have not had a striper chase or eat a hooked trout on the Clinch in a long time, and no one I know has had it happen either. Back during the mid 90's during the 1 generator summer on the Clinch (wonderful summer of fishing BTW), I had atleast 6 different occasions where stripers took one of the fish I had hooked. I would say anyone that fished the cumberland from the early 90's until recently would agree that the fishing wasn't compromised by the stripers.

So I do not think the stripers are having any impact on the overall fishing, it is an easy excuse, but I feel the reality is that this is no different then past years and the slower fishing is a result of several factors, there is something I am missing that is causing the slower fishing, I am not going to blame it on anything other then me not uncovering the solution.....yet:smile:

MB Caddis
09-13-2011, 07:34 AM
Waterwolf, let me get this straight. You make a statement that you call "incredibly arrogant" and then get upset when you are called out on it. It my circle of friends, if you do something like that you better be ready to take some flack. Don't know why you felt you needed to be "incredibly arrogant" just to complant about a bad day.

Flat Fly n
09-13-2011, 08:23 AM
This guy is living on borrowed time, or very lucky.

Death from above....looks like an osprey had him for a bit. I caught this guy in less than 18" of water yesterday.
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee78/tnflyfish/IMGP1504.jpg

cockeye valdez
09-13-2011, 09:27 AM
I do not want to start a fire storm but when I read about strippers, low water, release schedules, fishing pressure it occurs to me that the basics of trout fishing begin with, "where food is you, will find trout"

My question is, where is the food? I do not see hatches, I see some subsurface activity and accept that midges are coming down the river. I throw soft hackles with and without beads (had success, swinging hackles) nymphs, emergers of every variety.

I am not a scientist or entomologist (sorry John) but as I stand in the Clinch and consider the feeding lanes as buffet lines, there is not much food coming down on a regular basis.

answer me this of "Lords of the river" where is the food?
c.v.

Flat Fly n
09-13-2011, 10:07 AM
In the grass or mud that is under your feet. Pull some up and look at it. Some species of grasses hold more insects than others. When you find thoses grasses in abundance...you find the fish....if you're hungry and want some food you don't take a drive into the GSMNP to find a restaurant, you go down Kingston Pike....KISS principle

food sources off the top of my head......for the Clinch and I am sure I will miss some.

1. midges...by the dump truck
2. scuds..... 1 of these is probably equal in kcals to 25 midges
3. sowbugs..
4. black flies and their larvae
5. caddis very few, but from time to time
6. ephemerella(sulphurs), but right now they are microscopic as they have just hatched from the spring/summer. They won't even become a factor for months. You might see a late blooming adult, but this ain't the South Holston
7. little red rockworms
8. craneflies
9. terrestrials
10. sculpins
11. minnows of varying kinds

some parts of the river have better food sources than others at varying times of the year. The Clinch although diverse as above is really an easy river to figure out for hatches as there are not 5 different mayflies along with caddis coming off at one time during the day or night. Why so limited in mayflies, caddis, etc...it's consistantly so cold, as say opposed the the Holston with its abundant food sources. But really make you pull your hair out at times is when there are rises all around and you can't figure out what they are "keyed" in on. surface, subsurface, tailing are all varying riseforms you need to try and figure out so that you can solve the problem.

may I suggest Dave Whitlock's "guide to aquatic insects".......for as the Chinese say....."to conquer your enemy, you must know your enemy"

cockeye valdez
09-13-2011, 10:43 AM
When I pull up grass on the So. Ho. I find aquatic insects, several varieties and until recently in abundance. Two weeks ago, I pulled up several hand fulls on the Clinch and found not very much at all. I have Dave's book, others also.

I suspect my problem is the section of the river I'm in. I fish the lower section near Lewallyn shoals, early spring it is great, love it, then about the end of April or first two weeks of May it gets tough.

Perhaps my problem is I need to locate buffet lines up the river.

Your point about food in the GSMNP is important. I have done stream samples and there is very little food most of the time.

Flat Fly n
09-13-2011, 11:22 AM
Then you need to change your restaurant and menu!

waterwolf
09-13-2011, 12:44 PM
Waterwolf, let me get this straight. You make a statement that you call "incredibly arrogant" and then get upset when you are called out on it. It my circle of friends, if you do something like that you better be ready to take some flack. Don't know why you felt you needed to be "incredibly arrogant" just to complant about a bad day.

I made that statement to make sure everyone knew I was blasting with both guns, not holding anything back in reserve.

I would say that the folks on here that know me, and have known me for decades understand fully I take flak very well, and give it back as well.

Bluntly, I owe you no justification.



I do not want to start a fire storm but when I read about strippers, low water, release schedules, fishing pressure it occurs to me that the basics of trout fishing begin with, "where food is you, will find trout"

My question is, where is the food? I do not see hatches, I see some subsurface activity and accept that midges are coming down the river. I throw soft hackles with and without beads (had success, swinging hackles) nymphs, emergers of every variety.

I am not a scientist or entomologist (sorry John) but as I stand in the Clinch and consider the feeding lanes as buffet lines, there is not much food coming down on a regular basis.

answer me this of "Lords of the river" where is the food?
c.v.
Every where, literally.

I have been fortunate like most to fish all over the country for trout, and the Clinch has a much food in it as anywhere you want to name. Sure it doesn't have the varieties as other places. But what it lacks in variety it more then makes up for in shear volume, and quality of forage. Also, food sources which are there year round, not just during the warm months.

If you grab up a handful of grass anywhere from the Dam to 61 bridge it literally will drip with scuds and midge larvae. In one handful of weeds there is enough food to support several trout for weeks at a time.

If you didn't find food, then you either didn't look hard enough, didn't notice the food, or just grabbed the only piece of weeds that is empty.

Food is not an issue, those fish aren't fat as pigs, and don't grow at 2" per month because of a lack of food.

If anything the massive amounts of food make fishing tougher.

BIGBR
09-13-2011, 09:27 PM
After reading all of this i have decided that about 70% of the people on here are arogant know it alls, even the mighty one who gets praise and respect. Another 25% are only half know it alls and should shut up, quit crying on a msg board, and go out to do what we all should be doing, fishing. I get so sick of reading about a buch of cry babies who cant get along and are hiding behind a key board but wouldnt have the courage to face a 5 year old on the river. Suck it up and try to be men. Ill be parked in a silver nissan frontier at the bottom end of miller island on saturday ( water permiting ) if anyone has had their little feeling hurt to bad and want to discuse it. P.s. The remaining 5% that i know personaly are good men and women who would rather fish than complain.

waterwolf
09-13-2011, 10:34 PM
After reading all of this i have decided that about 70% of the people on here are arogant know it alls, even the mighty one who gets praise and respect. Another 25% are only half know it alls and should shut up, quit crying on a msg board, and go out to do what we all should be doing, fishing. I get so sick of reading about a buch of cry babies who cant get along and are hiding behind a key board but wouldnt have the courage to face a 5 year old on the river. Suck it up and try to be men. Ill be parked in a silver nissan frontier at the bottom end of miller island on saturday ( water permiting ) if anyone has had their little feeling hurt to bad and want to discuse it. P.s. The remaining 5% that i know personaly are good men and women who would rather fish than complain.
Wow, what spawned this wild eyed rant?

The folks I know on this board which is 90% or more, I get along with really well, **** I have fished or do fish with most of them.

I am arrogant (not really), and probably do a pretty good job of playing a know it all.

I haven't seen any complaining, more brainstorming by a group of pretty experienced fly fisherman trying to figure out what is going on, on the lower Clinch.

And BTW, I am not hiding behind a keyboard. As most know my name is Jim Jordan, formerly an employee of the creel for about 10 years, and a former guide for Mike Bone's Clinch River Outfitters for about 6 years. I row a Black Hyde drift boat, a blue 2 man Outcast cataraft, or a green 3 man cataraft. I fish out of Coldwater 70% of the time, and the other 30% finds me about 3/4 mile upstream of Lewellen Island.

No offense but the world would probably be ending if I were to EVER be found fishing at Miller's Island, not my cup of tea. But occasionally you can find me at the jail sneaking amongst the masses.

I'll be the one catching fish :biggrin:

pineman19
09-13-2011, 10:45 PM
Interesting, I generally stay out of this stuff, I am still pretty much a novice on the Clinch. I have some pretty decent days (my standards), and some dang poor ones (last Friday). Frankly, all the big talk doesn't impress me a lot, whether it's fishing or otherwise, generally those who say the least and do the most, tend to impress me. Some posts have really been off the wall lately, seems like trolling to me. Too bad that people don't have a better way to spend their time. After all, it's all just about enjoying the sport of flyfishing?

Neal

BIGBR
09-13-2011, 10:50 PM
Wow you have three boats, worked at a fly shop, and are to good to fish at certain spots on the river. Btw you just proved my point, you are a bragging cry baby who thinks he deserves respect for being a has been and has to let the whole world know how special he is.

waterwolf
09-14-2011, 05:09 AM
Wow you have three boats, worked at a fly shop, and are to good to fish at certain spots on the river. Btw you just proved my point, you are a bragging cry baby who thinks he deserves respect for being a has been and has to let the whole world know how special he is.
I am not too good to fish in certain spots, I just don't like to fish at Miller's Island. No particular reason, but Miller's has never been an area I enjoyed fishing.

I have 1 boat the Black Hyde, the other 2 belong to one of the folks I fish with, however I have them at my disposal anytime I need them.Hence, the reason I said I "rowed" not that I own. The only reason I brought that up is to make sure you didn't think I was hiding behind a keyboard with a hidden identity.

A "has been", now that is pretty **** original I have to say.

You seem awfully angry, and frustrated. It's going to be okay, just take a few deep breaths.

waterwolf
09-14-2011, 07:31 AM
Here's an idea, rather then attack me or others offer an opinion on the subject.

Be assured you are not hurting my feelings or making me mad. I have grown past the age of worrying what others think, and certainly am not going to get mad at anyone over an internet forum.

MB Caddis
09-14-2011, 07:45 AM
I'd be grateful to carry the net and learn. I ain't too proud, I'll carry your net.


Dear Cockeye, just look at what you've done. The "Lords of the River" are upset. The river may never be the same. You must learn to always be humble when trying to talk to one of the Lords when he is holding court. You should know they are smart and you are not. They know all about the river (and message boards) and you don' t know squat. Please DO NOT make the Lords angry again or they may not let us back on the river.

waterwolf
09-14-2011, 08:16 AM
Dear Cockeye, just look at what you've done. The "Lords of the River" are upset. The river may never be the same. You must learn to always be humble when trying to talk to one of the Lords when he is holding court. You should know they are smart and you are not. They know all about the river (and message boards) and you don' t know squat. Please DO NOT make the Lords angry again or they may not let us back on the river.
no one is upset except you and br.

The folks I know who posted above could care less and have better things to worry about.

Now, bow to your master.

kytroutman
09-14-2011, 08:28 AM
Before this discussion gets silenced by Paula, I will say that Jim and Jack Gregory are two of the most knowledgable and successful fisherman in the area. I have fished most of these waters for more than 40 years and am comfortable saying that. That being said, there are also a few guides that know these streams well and can turn you on to fish, often when no one else is being successful. I would suggest that valdez look at hiring a guide for a half-day and choose one that doesn't mind teaching as part of the trip. Tim Doyle would be one that I would recommend.

MB Caddis
09-14-2011, 09:06 AM
no one is upset except you and br.



Now, bow to your master.

Maybe on your next trip down the river maybe you could bless the water for the rest of us.

Sorry, I'm not upset. Having a great time reading all the commits.

Have a nice day.

MadisonBoats
09-14-2011, 10:36 AM
To add clarity and my perspective to the tone of this thread; I was not trying to laud or dissaud anyone's opinion. I enjoy sharing my trips and adventures. Furthermore; I find it exciting to discuss different ideas and points of views. I felt my conversation with Jim Jordan (waterwolf) was very interesting and it helped me to gain insight on this topic. Additionally; his points were transparent and substantiated with an explanation. It does not mean he is preaching down to anyone or he is proclaiming to being the authority figure on this topic. It is just his opinion/thoughts based on his experience. I can respect that and digest it my own way. I personally enjoy participating in thoughtful and inspiring discussions on this forum. They have helped me gain new insight and information that I would have never found elsewhere.

Additionally; I believe I am about as transparent as can be on this forum. I have my picture included in my avatar, my real name, and my email address. So; I do not feel I am hiding from anything.

Friends; we have to remember that there are all types of personalities on these forums. Also; some of the people are juveniles and do not have the experiences of most adults. I think it is mindful to not post with emotion and to promote an ambassador approach to posting on these forums. After all; we share the same interest and support trout fishing.

I posted a video in another topic to illustrate some of my tips and thoughts on fly fishing the Clinch. I really do not know how more to explain my thoughts and posts than to post video of me doing them.:smile:

http://littleriveroutfitters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15533

Flat Fly n
09-14-2011, 02:26 PM
Interesting, I generally stay out of this stuff, I am still pretty much a novice on the Clinch. I have some pretty decent days (my standards), and some dang poor ones (last Friday). Frankly, all the big talk doesn't impress me a lot, whether it's fishing or otherwise, generally those who say the least and do the most, tend to impress me. Some posts have really been off the wall lately, seems like trolling to me. Too bad that people don't have a better way to spend their time. After all, it's all just about enjoying the sport of flyfishing?

Neal

Thank goodness for the vocal ones on this board or you would be still catching only dinks on the Clinch and not any slot fish.

Your welcome.

waterwolf
09-14-2011, 03:05 PM
Maybe on your next trip down the river maybe you could bless the water for the rest of us.

Sorry, I'm not upset. Having a great time reading all the commits.

Have a nice day.
I am a selfish individual, would never do anything to help others out.
Thank goodness for the vocal ones on this board or you would be still catching only dinks on the Clinch and not any slot fish.

Your welcome.
:eek:

pineman19
09-14-2011, 03:57 PM
Thank goodness for the vocal ones on this board or you would be still catching only dinks on the Clinch and not any slot fish.

Your welcome.

Wow,

Guess you thought my post was addressed to you in particular. Now you guys wonder why your taking some flak from others? Frankly, I think you and some others enjoy the feeding frenzy. Carry on, and I will be totally disrespectful and say that you'll never get a word of thanks from me sir:rolleyes: BTW, your welcome, I am sure that I just made your day with that statement.

Have fun,

Neal

Wilson10
09-14-2011, 05:00 PM
I would like to sum up this thread by saying that there aren't any fish in the Clinch River.

But the South Holston is on fire. :biggrin:

Flat Fly n
09-14-2011, 05:08 PM
HMMMM...for defending someone calling me a liar because i stated I caught 10 fish and broke 3 off? Good thing I didn't really catch a 20+ inch fish that day and not take a picture of it. That I might understand, but 10 lousy fish and the minions call you a liar? Sorry for the use of the word minion, but in my book that's a lot less than a liar.

See you on the river and no you didn't make my day. I could care less what you personally think of me.

I do apologize for stating I caught that enormous amount of fish that day(3hours and 40 min to be exact, so yeah, pretty slow) that brought doubt to the masses.

pineman19
09-14-2011, 05:43 PM
HMMMM...for defending someone calling me a liar because i stated I caught 10 fish and broke 3 off? Good thing I didn't really catch a 20+ inch fish that day and not take a picture of it. That I might understand, but 10 lousy fish and the minions call you a liar? Sorry for the use of the word minion, but in my book that's a lot less than a liar.

See you on the river and no you didn't make my day. I could care less what you personally think of me.

I do apologize for stating I caught that enormous amount of fish that day(3hours and 40 min to be exact, so yeah, pretty slow) that brought doubt to the masses.

Flat Flyn,

I never defended anyone that called you a liar. You totally misunderstood my post. That's all I have to say on this matter.

Neal

pineman19
09-14-2011, 06:28 PM
I would like to sum up this thread by saying that there aren't any fish in the Clinch River.

But the South Holston is on fire. :biggrin:

Wilson,

Have you fished since they started spill 600 cfs. Have heard good things about the action under those conditions. Hope to over that way this weekend, although I will avoid Saturday, I assume it will be a madhouse.

Neal

waterwolf
09-14-2011, 10:53 PM
HMMMM...for defending someone calling me a liar because i stated I caught 10 fish and broke 3 off? Good thing I didn't really catch a 20+ inch fish that day and not take a picture of it. That I might understand, but 10 lousy fish and the minions call you a liar? Sorry for the use of the word minion, but in my book that's a lot less than a liar.

See you on the river and no you didn't make my day. I could care less what you personally think of me.

I do apologize for stating I caught that enormous amount of fish that day(3hours and 40 min to be exact, so yeah, pretty slow) that brought doubt to the masses.
I would believe you, maybe. :biggrin:

In fact I would believe several that post here, but there are a few who wouldn't know a 20 inch fish if you handed it to them. They would call it 26" or something ridiculous of that nature. Whoops there comes that arrogant streak again....dammit:biggrin:

Wilson10
09-15-2011, 08:51 AM
Wilson,

Have you fished since they started spill 600 cfs. Have heard good things about the action under those conditions. Hope to over that way this weekend, although I will avoid Saturday, I assume it will be a madhouse.

Neal

I haven't of late, but I have heard its been fishing really well. Let us know how it goes if you make it up there this weekend.

cockeye valdez
09-15-2011, 09:14 AM
I have wade fished 800 c.f.m.s actually I should have said i tried to fish, about all you can do is stand near the edge a cast. Fishing 600 will be fishable about the same. If you wade, it will be tough but do-able. Floating is the best option if you have a boat. Be careful, if you go I would pay Judd and fish his section of the river it spreads out and will not be as difficult.

pineman19
09-15-2011, 11:50 AM
I haven't of late, but I have heard its been fishing really well. Let us know how it goes if you make it up there this weekend.

Wilson,

Hope to head that way Sunday or Monday or maybe both if I can find a place to camp Sunday night. I'll drop a report if head that way. I figure it will be packed on Saturday, have done it before, but usually there it's less crowded on a Sunday, early on anyway.

Neal

cockeye valdez
09-15-2011, 01:42 PM
pineman,
have you wade fished 600 c.f.m.s ?

pineman19
09-15-2011, 02:59 PM
pineman,
have you wade fished 600 c.f.m.s ?

CV,

I haven't waded on 600 cfs. On the average it has been around 300-400 cfs while I have fished. I did find a report on Hugh Hartsell's website on a trip he made during 600, from the pics the water level looked wad-able. I may drop an email to Hugh on this subject since I am the process of purchasing some flies from him.

Neal

waterwolf
09-15-2011, 03:51 PM
Why has a topic on CLinch fishing degarded into a topic about wading the South Holston?

Mundele
09-15-2011, 04:37 PM
Hey I'll venture to get this thread back on topic... Where is Llewelyn Island and shoals?

pineman19
09-15-2011, 05:20 PM
Hey I'll venture to get this thread back on topic... Where is Llewelyn Island and shoals?

Mundele,

It's upstream of the parking area of the Baptist Church fishing access parking area. Not too long of a walk, I have only been there once, last Friday, nice looking water. I didn't have much luck, either the fish weren't cooperating, the stripers had ate all the trout, or I basically suck as a trout fisherman. Take your pick:rolleyes:

Neal

Crockett
09-15-2011, 10:03 PM
Hey I'll venture to get this thread back on topic... Where is Llewelyn Island and shoals?

Mundele you suck and couldn't catch a stocker trout to save your life! I will be in a silver explorer sport track near the ruby tuesdays at northshore and pellissippi tomorrow around 8am if you are man enough to fight me!!

waterwolf
09-15-2011, 11:25 PM
Mundele you suck and couldn't catch a stocker trout to save your life! I will be in a silver explorer sport track near the ruby tuesdays at northshore and pellissippi tomorrow around 8am if you are man enough to fight me!!
Now that is freaking funny.

Question answered, and pineman, your guess is as good as many on the lower river right now.

I am going to give them a good shot again this weekend, maybe their attitude has improved.

pineman19
09-16-2011, 07:40 AM
Mundele you suck and couldn't catch a stocker trout to save your life! I will be in a silver explorer sport track near the ruby tuesdays at northshore and pellissippi tomorrow around 8am if you are man enough to fight me!!

I'll bet on Crockett on this one;) He looks like a "mountain man" with that beard:biggrin:

Neal

Rodonthefly
09-16-2011, 08:32 AM
Hey Paula, can we add a section for WWE, WWF, and Cage fighting to the board??????:rolleyes:

This tail water section has went from a simple question about the Clinch to whos going to be the biggest cry baby, and who wants to see who the bigger man is.

MadisonBoats
09-16-2011, 09:15 AM
Mundele you suck and couldn't catch a stocker trout to save your life! I will be in a silver explorer sport track near the ruby tuesdays at northshore and pellissippi tomorrow around 8am if you are man enough to fight me!!

That does not sound like the normal Crockett. I think he is just joking or trying to add a silly spin to the recent tone of this topic.

It is better to gain a new friend to earn a new enemy! This philosophy always wins and it builds up your soul with positivity. The other just eats away at you until you are wrought with apathy. Trust me; I speak from experience.

pineman19
09-16-2011, 09:20 AM
That does not sound like the normal Crockett. I think he is just joking or trying to add a silly spin to the recent tone of this topic.

It is better to gain a new friend to earn a new enemy! This philosophy always wins and it builds up your soul with positivity. The other just eats away at you until you are wrought with apathy. Trust me; I speak from experience.

Madison,

Him and Mundele are buds. If I remember correctly, Mundele built a fly rod for Crockett. That's why I responded in a joking manner.

Neal

MadisonBoats
09-16-2011, 09:25 AM
Madison,

Him and Mundele are buds. If I remember correctly, Mundele built a fly rod for Crockett. That's why I responded in a joking manner.

Neal

I see...:smile: Good to clarify as I did not seem to think it was his style....

Mundele
09-16-2011, 10:02 AM
Mundele you suck and couldn't catch a stocker trout to save your life! I will be in a silver explorer sport track near the ruby tuesdays at northshore and pellissippi tomorrow around 8am if you are man enough to fight me!!

I may not be able to catch a stocker, but I sure can catch some bluegill, if I can dig some redworms first...

Mundele
09-16-2011, 10:05 AM
Madison,

Him and Mundele are buds. If I remember correctly, Mundele built a fly rod for Crockett. That's why I responded in a joking manner.

Neal



Yep we're friends. He's pretty accurate on the not catching stockers though, my last trip to the clinch was pretty dismal. (the two before were pretty good though)

--Matt

Crockett
09-16-2011, 10:13 AM
Mundele is right we are friends we mostly fish in the smokies together but have fished the clinch together before. We have been friends for years and work in the same building which is right up from the Ruby Tuesday's. He didn't see my post last night so I just froze out there waiting for him this morning and he never even knew we were going to fight (so does that mean I win). Neal you were right about Matt building me a custom rod I do owe him a lot and now I feel bad about making that joke. Paula can you start a makeup or counseling therapy thread too?

By the way on a serious note it is really I that can't catch a stocker in the Clinch to save my life but I am trying to learn. Lots of your alls posts and Shawn's videos have really helped educate me. Just wanted to say thank you.

FishNHunt
09-16-2011, 08:21 PM
Cockeye tried to carry my net once while fishing with me but, became to exhausted from landing and releasing my fish that he gave up. He is my father and he's actually a dedicated flyfishermen, maybe even border line obsessed and can catch fish. I'm positive that he didn't mean any harm when he "called B.S." and I'm also positive that he truely meant it when he said that he would "carry the net" because he truely wants to learn something.

If you aren't a liar or have something to hide then take the man (I'd say you would actually like the guy). Normally when he calls B.S. on me the first words out of my mouth are "get your old *ss up here and I'll show you".... Of course I don't wear my fly fishing feelings on my my shirt sleeve thou.

MadisonBoats
09-17-2011, 08:37 AM
Cockeye tried to carry my net once while fishing with me but, became to exhausted from landing and releasing my fish that he gave up. He is my father and he's actually a dedicated flyfishermen, maybe even border line obsessed and can catch fish. I'm positive that he didn't mean any harm when he "called B.S." and I'm also positive that he truely meant it when he said that he would "carry the net" because he truely wants to learn something.

If you aren't a liar or have something to hide then take the man (I'd say you would actually like the guy). Normally when he calls B.S. on me the first words out of my mouth are "get your old *ss up here and I'll show you".... Of course I don't wear my fly fishing feelings on my my shirt sleeve thou.

I chatted with him and we are going to try and fish in the next week or two...He does not sound like he needs any pointers from me.:smile: I think he can probably show me a few tips. Atleast it would be nice to make a new friend.

old east tn boy
09-17-2011, 08:13 PM
Have another uncle James story perhaps folks can relate to on this subject.

We're fishing Douglas in the early 60's and it's slow going in late summer. Being an early riser, uncle James had us there at dawn and now it was almost noon and we didn't have anything on the stringer. So when he finally asked if I was ready to call it a day, I was elated. I mumbled something about better luck next time and maybe we needed to ask our neighbor where he was catching his fish because he seemed to always do well, never had a bad day and never, ever got skunked. Uncle James stopped in the middle of securing things for the ride back to the ramp, glared at me and right then I realized I had stepped in it.

"Let me tell you a story," he said, "about a man I used to work with." Seems there was a man, Charlie Mac, who had joined uncle James' crew from somewhere out west TN way. This fellow early on commenced to tell his work buddies how he liked to fish, knew where to find the best spots and could trick an ole bass into practically jumping into his boat. Well those old boys he was talking to knew a thing or two about fishing too but just kept quiet and listened. Every Monday morning the men would discuss weekend fishing and asked Charlie Mac how he did. "Three five pounders!" he would exclaim but he never would say from where or how he had caught them. Week after week, as the dog days of summer dragged on the other men in the crew lamented their bad luck but not Charlie Mac. "Three five pounders!" was always the reply until it got to the point where his nickname became ole Three Five Pounders. He never fished with anyone from the crew (always making excuses), never produced any photos of his fish and never invited anyone to a fish fry. And of course, after a time, no one believed him either.

"Son, everybody has a bad day," uncle James remarked. "Most mortal men will have a lot of them. It is a stand-up guy who won't mind in the least admitting it. The man that won't doesn't deserve your respect and that is a far worse thing to lose than any fish swimming."

fourx
09-18-2011, 09:11 AM
Fishin's been slowwww down lowwww.

4X

tn hound
09-18-2011, 12:01 PM
Have another uncle James story perhaps folks can relate to on this subject.

We're fishing Douglas in the early 60's and it's slow going in late summer. Being an early riser, uncle James had us there at dawn and now it was almost noon and we didn't have anything on the stringer. So when he finally asked if I was ready to call it a day, I was elated. I mumbled something about better luck next time and maybe we needed to ask our neighbor where he was catching his fish because he seemed to always do well, never had a bad day and never, ever got skunked. Uncle James stopped in the middle of securing things for the ride back to the ramp, glared at me and right then I realized I had stepped in it.

"Let me tell you a story," he said, "about a man I used to work with." Seems there was a man, Charlie Mac, who had joined uncle James' crew from somewhere out west TN way. This fellow early on commenced to tell his work buddies how he liked to fish, knew where to find the best spots and could trick an ole bass into practically jumping into his boat. Well those old boys he was talking to knew a thing or two about fishing too but just kept quiet and listened. Every Monday morning the men would discuss weekend fishing and asked Charlie Mac how he did. "Three five pounders!" he would exclaim but he never would say from where or how he had caught them. Week after week, as the dog days of summer dragged on the other men in the crew lamented their bad luck but not Charlie Mac. "Three five pounders!" was always the reply until it got to the point where his nickname became ole Three Five Pounders. He never fished with anyone from the crew (always making excuses), never produced any photos of his fish and never invited anyone to a fish fry. And of course, after a time, no one believed him either.

"Son, everybody has a bad day," uncle James remarked. "Most mortal men will have a lot of them. It is a stand-up guy who won't mind in the least admitting it. The man that won't doesn't deserve your respect and that is a far worse thing to lose than any fish swimming."

great story that most of us can relate to, I know a few Charlie Macs personally, have seen a few on here as well. You can learn as much or more from the guy that didn't catch anything than the guy that did(even if he's telling the truth).

waterwolf
09-18-2011, 11:28 PM
Fishin's been slowwww down lowwww.

4X
I did fair yesterday. Not great but okay. I fished at Coldwater for about 2.5 hours and probably landed 15, and hooked another 6 or so. Not bad, not great, but tolerable.

fourx
09-19-2011, 04:28 PM
I did fair yesterday. Not great but okay. I fished at Coldwater for about 2.5 hours and probably landed 15, and hooked another 6 or so. Not bad, not great, but tolerable.

That's not "lowwww" bro.

4X

Rodonthefly
09-19-2011, 06:47 PM
I think I had 12 or 13 Saturday. I fished from 7 ish till the horns went off. It was slower for me then it has been

Rockyraccoon
09-19-2011, 10:26 PM
I floated yesterday and it was noticeably slower than the last few trips I've had. Fish were hunkered down.....nothing like the normal view of fish darting away from the boat as we passed them. We did better in the deep slow stuff than the good drift lines.

MadisonBoats
09-20-2011, 08:51 AM
I fished for about 2 hours Monday Morning. They were a little off pace with the barometer changing because of the storm front moving in. However; I see that it has settled and they should be back in the groove. I landed about 15 and missed just as many.:eek:

Fished Friday Evening on the lower end with the water on 2 generators. It was insane. Most of our fish were in the upper teens with only two around 10 inches. We were running up in down the lower tail-water with a motor. The last drift down did have a noticeable drop off in fish takes. It was much darker and I like to think this was the cause.:biggrin: Saw some big striper lurking around too...