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BlueRaiderFan
10-29-2011, 12:41 PM
I've tried this a few times without much success. I seem to do better with dry only because I get hung up less. I suspect that fishing slightly deeper runs is the key but I can find that out on my own if those in the know don't want to give away too much...but I have to ask; what is the best way to tell if a fish is on or taking? Do you watch the leader for movement? That's what I have done on the rare occasion I catch a fish with this method but I'm hoping to gain more insight into this. Also, is this method used elsewhere or is it indigenous to the smokies?

ifish4wildtrout
10-29-2011, 03:17 PM
When I double nymph, I do not use an indicator. I watch the tip of the fly line where it meets the leader. If part of the fly line has sunk, I watch the part just coming out of the water. I watch very closely, the slightest movement, twitch, anything, I set the hook.

BlueRaiderFan
10-29-2011, 08:14 PM
Ok, at least I'm doing that right. Thanks for the info.

No Hackle
10-29-2011, 09:27 PM
Blueraider watch the line if it moves,hesitates or just does something weird set the hook. It's free.You can set as many times as you want won't cost you an extra dime. That's the best advise I got when I started fishing w/o an indicator. Walter showed me how to nymph. the leader is really important also. This is the one I use 15'' of .017, 15'' of .015, 15'' of .013,12'' of 0X, 12'' of 2X, 12'' of 3X leave a long tag with this to attach first nymph 8'' or so on tag, 26'' of 4X for the second fly. Add 1 or 2 BB shot between the flies. Use a tuck cast so the flies hit the water first before the flyline. Keep up with the drift with your rod tip control your slack. The leader formula is a Harvey Leader by Joe Humphrey's. Check out his videos their awesome.
Listen I'm off all this next week and I live in Maryville. I will be fishing the Park at least 3 or 4 times. If you want to hook up and fish that be OK with me . I can show you some stuff that I do and you can go from there.
Lynn

BlueRaiderFan
10-30-2011, 12:19 AM
Ah thanks a lot...that really helps. I wish I could fish with ya, but I'm stuck in Nashville this weekend. I am going to try and get up one more time before it gets really cold. Let us know how ya do and thanks for the info. I'll check those vids out.

Rog 1
10-31-2011, 09:49 AM
BRF...you can also use what is called a "butt indicator loop"...this is a 6 or 12 inch furled leader loop to loop section that is attached between you line and leadeder...usually a highly visible color that can act like an indicator or give you a visible point to watch while high sticking....

BlueRaiderFan
10-31-2011, 01:31 PM
Is that cheatin'? :biggrin:

Rog 1
10-31-2011, 03:28 PM
Like to consider it a Senior Citizen handicap...just allows my older peepers to get locked in on the fly line a little quicker....it is still part of your leader....not bobber fishing....in one of my favorite fly fishing books..."Flying Fishing Through a Mid-Life Crisis"...one of the authors sons asked him about the use of indicators when using a nymph...wanted to know what the difference between that and bait fishing was....

jeffnles1
10-31-2011, 03:33 PM
Is that cheatin'? :biggrin:

Only if a purist is looking. :smile:

I'm no great expert on this but second what has been said. Pick any point from the tip of the fly line to the leader that you can watch consistently. If it does anything out of the ordinary, set the hook.

You're going to set the hook on a lot of bottom bounces and rock hops but after catching a few fish this way, the way the line behaves when a fish takes the nymph is different than when the nymph bounces over a rock. I can't describe it but it is just different and when you see it you'll know.

If you have a lot of slack in the leader and tippet, the fish will have taken it and spit it back out before you can react. If it's too tight, the drift may not be natural.

I know, pretty basic common sense stuff but it works for me (usually).

Jeff

NDuncan
10-31-2011, 04:12 PM
Blueraider watch the line if it moves,hesitates or just does something weird set the hook. It's free.You can set as many times as you want won't cost you an extra dime. That's the best advise I got when I started fishing w/o an indicator. Walter showed me how to nymph. the leader is really important also. This is the one I use 15'' of .017, 15'' of .015, 15'' of .013,12'' of 0X, 12'' of 2X, 12'' of 3X leave a long tag with this to attach first nymph 8'' or so on tag, 26'' of 4X for the second fly. Add 1 or 2 BB shot between the flies. Use a tuck cast so the flies hit the water first before the flyline. Keep up with the drift with your rod tip control your slack. The leader formula is a Harvey Leader by Joe Humphrey's. Check out his videos their awesome.
Listen I'm off all this next week and I live in Maryville. I will be fishing the Park at least 3 or 4 times. If you want to hook up and fish that be OK with me . I can show you some stuff that I do and you can go from there.
Lynn


Thanks for the info! This is a technique I need to learn, maybe I'll spend some time this Nov with the 6 wt out and work on this.

In addition to the Tuck cast, what would be your go-to cast in situations where the overhang prevents a full out overhead cast or in other tight situations?

Barbara
10-31-2011, 07:26 PM
Inspired by this thread, I spent 4 hrs on Middle Prong nymphing without indicator. I don't know if I hate nymph fishing because I'm no good at it or if I'm no good at it because I hate it. Got 3 rainbow, lots of leaves and 2 rocks/logs that took my nymphs. I believe if I keep at it I will "see" the strikes. Maybe......

No Hackle
10-31-2011, 10:21 PM
Nduncan whatI try to do inthat situation when theres an overhang is to try to throw the loop under the hang and not the fly. This helps me most of the time and sometimes you just get hung. Thats part of it. Kind of a no guts no glory mind set. Your gonna lose flies if your not your only gonna catch average trout most of the time. Barbara has the right idea and this is what I did. Leave the indicators at home and make yourself nymph w/o them. I still use indicators although not that seldom in the park. There's just days I like to see it go under. Summer time in the park I almost treat the park like a tailwater go small and light and you pretty much have to use a strike indicator. The other 90% of the time I'm nymphing w/o the bobber.
Good for you Barbara. By the leaves, logs and rock you were where you needed to be. I know it's hard to start your nymphing w/o an indicator it will help you in the long run. You can adjust with your casting and not moving your bobber up and down your line.
Lynn

BlueRaiderFan
10-31-2011, 10:42 PM
Like to consider it a Senior Citizen handicap...just allows my older peepers to get locked in on the fly line a little quicker....it is still part of your leader....not bobber fishing....in one of my favorite fly fishing books..."Flying Fishing Through a Mid-Life Crisis"...one of the authors sons asked him about the use of indicators when using a nymph...wanted to know what the difference between that and bait fishing was....


I hear ya! I was joking around with someone on here a few years back about the size of the foam on their fly (just goofin around and didn't really mean anything by it), sure enough a year ago I find out I can't see my fly, can't get the tippet through the eye, can't see the instrumentation read out at work etc...I get checked and need BIFOCALS!!! :biggrin: Thanks for the tip. I'll use it.

BlueRaiderFan
10-31-2011, 10:48 PM
Only if a purist is looking. :smile:

I'm no great expert on this but second what has been said. Pick any point from the tip of the fly line to the leader that you can watch consistently. If it does anything out of the ordinary, set the hook.

You're going to set the hook on a lot of bottom bounces and rock hops but after catching a few fish this way, the way the line behaves when a fish takes the nymph is different than when the nymph bounces over a rock. I can't describe it but it is just different and when you see it you'll know.

If you have a lot of slack in the leader and tippet, the fish will have taken it and spit it back out before you can react. If it's too tight, the drift may not be natural.

I know, pretty basic common sense stuff but it works for me (usually).

Jeff

Thanks Jeff! I may give it a try next trip. I'm gettin' really good at a dry though. I'm even getting into bigger fish on average these days. I would like to get good at high stickin' too though. I think it will come in handy in the winter.

BlueRaiderFan
10-31-2011, 10:51 PM
Inspired by this thread, I spent 4 hrs on Middle Prong nymphing without indicator. I don't know if I hate nymph fishing because I'm no good at it or if I'm no good at it because I hate it. Got 3 rainbow, lots of leaves and 2 rocks/logs that took my nymphs. I believe if I keep at it I will "see" the strikes. Maybe......

You and I are in the same boat then...it's not easy...at least for me.

Barbara
11-01-2011, 09:17 PM
Tried nymphing again today from Metcalf Bottom to Elkmont, no fish to hand, very few strikes. Or at least strikes of which I was aware. Switched to a dry and dropper with no better results. On the way home, I decided to stop at Metcalf and cast with just a dry. Caught one rainbow and had 2 more strikes.

What to do tomorrow? :confused:

No Hackle
11-02-2011, 07:32 AM
Barbara keep @ it. Momma said they'd be days like this. My son and I were looking around yesterday and didn't see alot of active fish. Were you fishing pools or riffles. By the way if you caught a fish on a dry @ Metcalf you've done something. Those fish are pretty educated by this time with all the flies they see.
Lynn

P.s. what to do tomorrow?------ Fish!!!!

Barbara
11-02-2011, 09:11 AM
No Hackle, you are right! When all else fails, go fishing! :smile:

I fished riffles mostly yesterday. It got cloudy and didn't warm up at Elkmont like I expected. I noticed the air temp got higher as I drove down towards Townsend so maybe the water was a bit warmer at Metcalf? Wish I had taken the water temp.

Can't decide where to go today. Sunny, water should warm this afternoon. I planned on Roaring Fork just for the fun but maybe Tremont would be better. Decisions, decisions.....

Byron Begley
11-02-2011, 12:33 PM
See that beautiful rainbow trout at the top of this page? Guess who caught it and took the picture? It was No Hackle, my buddy Lynn. Thought you all might want to know.

Byron

NDuncan
11-02-2011, 01:48 PM
That is a really amazing rainbow. Why does it have such distinct coloration compared other rainbows?

pineman19
11-02-2011, 05:57 PM
That is a really amazing rainbow. Why does it have such distinct coloration compared other rainbows?

Wild Guess. He ate his Wheaties every dang day:biggrin:

Neal

No Hackle
11-02-2011, 08:29 PM
NDuncan, I don't know what the deal on that bow is. I caught that fish @ the Clinch. I wonder if maybe he's a differant strain. I've fished that river a long time, never seen fish colored like that til the last 4 or 5 years. He was the most beautifully colored fish I've ever caught. I shared it with Byron and that's how it ended up on LRO sight. Very proud of that fish. It took me about an hour to catch him.
Lynn

BlueRaiderFan
11-02-2011, 10:11 PM
A guy posted a brown on the Drake last year that I would have never believed it was real if I had seen it in a magazine. It had browns on it that I didn't know existed in nature. You got to love what nature can do sometimes.

Barbara
11-24-2011, 12:03 AM
I apologize for this late post. Got a "rootkit" virus and thought I had lost everything on my computer. I hate computers.

I decided to give up highsticking and go over to the dark (dry fly) side for the last day of my trip. It was a beautiful day and the rainbows were hitting dry flies! Caught 14 which is a great afternoon for me.

One pretty deep pool had a log partly across the head of the pool, making a cast difficult. When I finally got the fly in there, a rainbow grapped it and shot towards me. For a second in that clear water I could see him, his sides flashing silver as he shook his head trying to rid himself of the hook. What an image!

Fly fishing is good for the soul.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x311/barbarahunter/roaring%20fork%202nd%20nov%202011/roaringforknov220111024x768.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x311/barbarahunter/roaring%20fork%202nd%20nov%202011/roaringforknov2201141024x768.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x311/barbarahunter/roaring%20fork%202nd%20nov%202011/roaringforknov2201161024x768.jpg

IMG]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x311/barbarahunter/roaring%20fork%202nd%20nov%202011/roaringforknov2201131024x768.jpg[/IMG]

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x311/barbarahunter/roaring%20fork%202nd%20nov%202011/roaringforknov2201121024x768.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x311/barbarahunter/roaring%20fork%202nd%20nov%202011/roaringforknov2201131024x768.jpg

BlueRaiderFan
11-24-2011, 12:56 AM
Wow! Beat my best day by two fish...nice. Dries are a ton of fun to me. I love to watch the water break when a trout hits a dry.

Redfish62
11-24-2011, 09:18 PM
I fished for bass for many years before taking up the fly for trout. I did a great deal of fishing with plastic worms and that requires line watching and filling the bump. When I high stick I am always filling for the bump with practice you can tell the difference between stones and strikes. While dry flies are top of my list for the smokies when it gets tough or the fish just will not come the the dry drifting a nymph and staying in touch with it works. I is easy to work up to a position of cover and drift the nymph into holes and I love the electric jolt communicated up the line to the butt of the graphite rod. It may be just a tic but I never tire of the anticipation of it. With that said I have found keeping and eye on the line in the moving environment of the steam difficult, so for me when I go to the nymph and high sticking it is fill. I know I miss many but I catch many. And with practice and many drifts you will learn the stone from the strike and it's fun getting there.

Happy high sticking,

Barbara
11-25-2011, 01:02 AM
Redfish62,

Never thought of connecting high sticking and worm fishing for bass. I will remember that next trip. I worm fished for years before I ever trout fished. I have been watching the line and in fast moving water it is hard. Will try "feel" next time more than "watch". (of course only if they aren't hitting dries! :smile:)

Grampus
11-27-2011, 12:01 AM
Things I've learned over the years that makes high-sticking easier. When teaching newbies how to high stick, the most common mistake they make is to not keep their rod tip up, thus keeping slack out of their line. If you allow slack, you delay the time you are able to detect a strike, if at all (depending on amount of slack). Keep your line as tight as possible without pulling the fly while allowing a natural looking dead drift. As a disclaimer, I've seen some get by with slightly pulling their fly...go figure!

Keep rod tip up, keep rod tip up, keep rod tip up!!
Keep slack out of line
Follow your fly with your rod tip. A longer rod (9ft) helps, but you will get hung up more. It takes getting used to.
Hold rod in one hand, fly line in the other. You can use your line hand to pull slack out and to help set the hook. Setting the hook with your line hand is helpful in tight quarters.
Don't pull the fly. It doesn't look natural.
Shorter leaders are easier to control. I rarely use over 7 1/2 ft tapered down to 4X in the Park. On smaller streams, I use 5 ft. Shorter tippets are also easier 12-18 inches. The faster the water, the larger tippet size you can get away with, because trout have less time to inspect. 3X to 5X works.
Wear camo or other drab clothing (including hats). High sticking is close quarters, so stealth is a must. I love a UT hat, but so do trout because they can see it:eek:
Weighted nymphs are easier to use because they provide resistance which assists in keeping slack out of leader
Polarized glasses.. they help reduce glare making it easier to see your line. Many fish can be spotted before during or after the strike. If you see a flash, but not a strike, cast back immediately!
When fishing tight quarters, overhanging limbs etc, the "bow and arrow" cast works well.
Practice roll casts, not just overhead but sideways
Watch for an "unnatural" twitch in your line. If you wait to feel the strike, you will miss a lot of fish.
The best place to watch your leader is where it comes out of the water.
Practice with 1 fly before going to a tandem rig.
If in doubt....jerk
In lieu of strike indicators, knotted leaders help you see your leader.
A great place to practice is in shallow pocket water where you have plenty of space behind you to prevent getting hung if you miss a strike. The pocket water above Metcalf Bottoms bridge is good.

Persistance pays off:smile:

Grampus
Jim Parks

BlueRaiderFan
11-27-2011, 01:39 AM
Thanks, Grampus...that helps a lot. I can't wait to get back to the park and try it.

MadisonBoats
11-27-2011, 08:41 AM
Things I've learned over the years that makes high-sticking easier. When teaching newbies how to high stick, the most common mistake they make is to not keep their rod tip up, thus keeping slack out of their line. If you allow slack, you delay the time you are able to detect a strike, if at all (depending on amount of slack). Keep your line as tight as possible without pulling the fly while allowing a natural looking dead drift. As a disclaimer, I've seen some get by with slightly pulling their fly...go figure!

Keep rod tip up, keep rod tip up, keep rod tip up!!
Keep slack out of line
Follow your fly with your rod tip. A longer rod (9ft) helps, but you will get hung up more. It takes getting used to.
Hold rod in one hand, fly line in the other. You can use your line hand to pull slack out and to help set the hook. Setting the hook with your line hand is helpful in tight quarters.
Don't pull the fly. It doesn't look natural.
Shorter leaders are easier to control. I rarely use over 7 1/2 ft tapered down to 4X in the Park. On smaller streams, I use 5 ft. Shorter tippets are also easier 12-18 inches. The faster the water, the larger tippet size you can get away with, because trout have less time to inspect. 3X to 5X works.
Wear camo or other drab clothing (including hats). High sticking is close quarters, so stealth is a must. I love a UT hat, but so do trout because they can see it:eek:
Weighted nymphs are easier to use because they provide resistance which assists in keeping slack out of leader
Polarized glasses.. they help reduce glare making it easier to see your line. Many fish can be spotted before during or after the strike. If you see a flash, but not a strike, cast back immediately!
When fishing tight quarters, overhanging limbs etc, the "bow and arrow" cast works well.
Practice roll casts, not just overhead but sideways
Watch for an "unnatural" twitch in your line. If you wait to feel the strike, you will miss a lot of fish.
The best place to watch your leader is where it comes out of the water.
Practice with 1 fly before going to a tandem rig.
If in doubt....jerk
In lieu of strike indicators, knotted leaders help you see your leader.

A great place to practice is in shallow pocket water where you have plenty of space behind you to prevent getting hung if you miss a strike. The pocket water above Metcalf Bottoms bridge is good.

Persistance pays off :smile:

Grampus
Jim Parks

Good Job on the tips! Maybe I will even get up in the mountains and try some high-sticking.

I was wondering if anyone has tried it with a bamboo stick and line only? I would like to give that method a try just to have on the experience list.

Jim Casada
11-27-2011, 10:25 AM
Shawn--I used that minimalist approach quite a bit as a boy, and there was an old fellow in Bryson City whom I mentioned on another thread who was a master at it. George Monteith could catch more trout with a nymph and a cane pole than virtually anyone. He also used the same "high sticking" approach to catch catfish in the shoals on the Little Tennessee River, with the only difference being that he used live bait rather than a nymph.
I don't know that I want to go back to days of a long cane pole, black line with a bit of monofilament, a piece of the lead covering for old-time roofing nails, and a Tellico nymph as my equipment, but it's nice to think back on it (and when it comes to effecitiveness, it flat-out works.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

J

duckypaddler
11-27-2011, 10:54 AM
Things I've learned over the years that makes high-sticking easier. When teaching newbies how to high stick, the most common mistake they make is to not keep their rod tip up, thus keeping slack out of their line. If you allow slack, you delay the time you are able to detect a strike, if at all (depending on amount of slack). Keep your line as tight as possible without pulling the fly while allowing a natural looking dead drift. As a disclaimer, I've seen some get by with slightly pulling their fly...go figure!

Keep rod tip up, keep rod tip up, keep rod tip up!!
Keep slack out of line
Follow your fly with your rod tip. A longer rod (9ft) helps, but you will get hung up more. It takes getting used to.
Hold rod in one hand, fly line in the other. You can use your line hand to pull slack out and to help set the hook. Setting the hook with your line hand is helpful in tight quarters.
Don't pull the fly. It doesn't look natural.
Shorter leaders are easier to control. I rarely use over 7 1/2 ft tapered down to 4X in the Park. On smaller streams, I use 5 ft. Shorter tippets are also easier 12-18 inches. The faster the water, the larger tippet size you can get away with, because trout have less time to inspect. 3X to 5X works.
Wear camo or other drab clothing (including hats). High sticking is close quarters, so stealth is a must. I love a UT hat, but so do trout because they can see it:eek:
Weighted nymphs are easier to use because they provide resistance which assists in keeping slack out of leader
Polarized glasses.. they help reduce glare making it easier to see your line. Many fish can be spotted before during or after the strike. If you see a flash, but not a strike, cast back immediately!
When fishing tight quarters, overhanging limbs etc, the "bow and arrow" cast works well.
Practice roll casts, not just overhead but sideways
Watch for an "unnatural" twitch in your line. If you wait to feel the strike, you will miss a lot of fish.
The best place to watch your leader is where it comes out of the water.
Practice with 1 fly before going to a tandem rig.
If in doubt....jerk
In lieu of strike indicators, knotted leaders help you see your leader.
A great place to practice is in shallow pocket water where you have plenty of space behind you to prevent getting hung if you miss a strike. The pocket water above Metcalf Bottoms bridge is good.

Persistance pays off:smile:

Grampus
Jim Parks

Great advice, and thanks for posting. :biggrin:

Now if I could only put your words to practice

Let me know when you have some free time. I'd love to learn some more from you.

Knothead
11-27-2011, 03:35 PM
I did this on the North River several years ago, but didn't know the technique had a name. It was a very successful technique. It was a bit like bass fishing with plastic worms; watch the line. Believe it or not, I caught a 12 inch rainbow from a pool about the size of a bathtub on Gee Creek, off the Hiwassee, in the widerness area. Talks about a surprise! I have also used it with dry flies.

MadisonBoats
11-28-2011, 09:41 AM
Shawn--I used that minimalist approach quite a bit as a boy, and there was an old fellow in Bryson City whom I mentioned on another thread who was a master at it. George Monteith could catch more trout with a nymph and a cane pole than virtually anyone. He also used the same "high sticking" approach to catch catfish in the shoals on the Little Tennessee River, with the only difference being that he used live bait rather than a nymph.
I don't know that I want to go back to days of a long cane pole, black line with a bit of monofilament, a piece of the lead covering for old-time roofing nails, and a Tellico nymph as my equipment, but it's nice to think back on it (and when it comes to effecitiveness, it flat-out works.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

J

Jim,
I remember a [Heartland Series] Episode that featured one of the Smoky Mountain great 'High-Stickers'. I used to see many of the locals in Campbell/Anderson County doing this back in the creeks for bluegill and other fish when I was younger.

Jim Casada
11-28-2011, 09:20 PM
Shawn--Man I would have loved to have seen that show. I almost never watch TV (I'm an avid reader) but that's the kind of program which really strikes my fancy.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

MadisonBoats
11-28-2011, 11:05 PM
I think this is an excerpt of the story line for the first-show.

The First Heartland Story: The Bohanan’s “There were two old guys fishing. We could see them from the bridge. They kept catching trout, one after another. It was pretty cool. They didn’t look like fishermen. They looked like mountain men. And that’s exactly what they were.


One was tall and lanky. He wore hip boots. He didn’t have on full body waders that fancy trout fisherman wear. Not this tall drink of water. He was a lean mountain man and wore old school black hip boots that tied to his belt.


The other guy, his brother, was a little heavier and shorter. He fished with two little split shots for weights. He used nymphs and wet flies that sunk the fly down near the bottom of the river, because they always told me that’s where the trout are!


The tall guy used, and this is unbelievable, twelve-pound monofilament fishing line on his fly reel! He had it tied to a little leader, then to two flies separated by a split shot. The flies looked like doodlebugs or big gobs of knitting wool with a little thread around them. Because that’s about what they were: big gobs of wool tied to a huge number 4 or 6 size hook. Boy, did they catch trout!


… That’s when The Heartland Series was born.


… Like he was befriending us, A. D. proceeded to tell us what it was like to grow up in the Great Smoky Mountains. He said, ‘Tell those park rangers, if they want some of these brook trout, tell ’em to go away up in the high mountains and catch some. These trout they got down here, they ain’t brook trout. They’re the rainbow. They got them big heads. Those brook trout got them little bitty heads. These trout down here they’re all mixed up! They’re not the native trout. Now my brother, he’s been here fishing for ’bout sixty-nine years. I reckon he’s been here long enough to be called one of the natives! Ha! Now, we don’t want to argue with no one. Trout’s trout! We like to fish.’


We showed Steve the interview with A. D. and Walter Bohannon… Steve got real excited and completely forgot about the brook trout story for the time being.
‘Here’s the show,’ he said. ‘Listen to what they’re saying. They’re telling you what it was like to grow up in the Great Smoky Mountains! They’re as good as any man and they know it. Listen to how they talk, like they’re sons of these mountains, and they know them because they are!’



It wasn’t so much what they said, but how they said it that Steve was talking about. Quickly, Steve wrote a little introduction for me to say, and we began putting together the story and called it “Fishin’.” It began with me saying something like, ‘I’d like you to meet two new friends of ours, A.D. and Walter Bohanon, streamside philosophers.’
And then, we simply aired the interview and let A.D. talk. We didn’t interrupt him or overwrite the story. This is important: WE LET HIM TELL HIS OWN STORY.”