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olesmoke
12-08-2011, 07:08 PM
here is a couple I found last week that I thought I would share.
HOOK: SIZE 20 CURVED NYMPH
THREAD: RED 12/0
BREATHERS: WHITE CDC
THORAX:BLACK DUBBING COVERED BY TURKEY TAIL FIBERS
UNDERBODY: RED THREAD
RIB: BLACK ULTRA RIB


HOOK: SIZE 20 CURVED NYMPH
THREAD:BROWN 12/0
RIB: THREAD DARKENED WITH PERMA MARKER
THORAX: NATURALTURKEY BIOT
WING BUDS: TAN BIOT
THREE COATS SALLY HARD AS @#$%



http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/22midge/PICT0177.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/22midge/PICT0184.jpg

David Knapp
12-08-2011, 07:27 PM
Those are both great patterns...I particularly like the second one. Care to share the recipes?

BlueRaiderFan
12-08-2011, 09:32 PM
Very cool...I bet this in red would work well on the Caney...probably the black too.

troutmanbrook
12-09-2011, 01:25 PM
Awesome!! great flies. going to tie one right now.

5xtippett
12-12-2011, 11:55 PM
Where are mine?:biggrin::smile:

kentuckytroutbum
12-13-2011, 09:56 AM
olesmoke-

I like the first one, with the bent shank. Looks more realistic to me, though there is nothing wrong with the second one which is a more "classic" pattern.

I am curious as to why you tied the first one in reverse with the CDC post on the hook end and not the eye end. Is there something that you should share with us?

Bill

P.S.- Roy Christie, had an article in Hatches magazine's website, about tying reverse emerger patterns. Wonder if the bugs actually go downstream in a head first position, and not tail first. If this is true, maybe we tyiers have been doing all wrong for a long time. Anybody know for sure?

olesmoke
12-13-2011, 04:44 PM
Kentuckie to be honest it was one of those "what would it look like if I" tried this and when it went into the aquarium for the float test it just looked good.Thanks

5xtippett
12-13-2011, 10:46 PM
Have you tried them on the Smith?

kentuckytroutbum
12-14-2011, 08:36 AM
Kentuckie to be honest it was one of those "what would it look like if I" tried this and when it went into the aquarium for the float test it just looked good.Thanks

olesmoke-

That's fine, but I still think you may have stumbled onto something. I'd still like to know the head first thing. Madison Boats shot a lot of underwater videos of trout earlier this year, and I wonder if he noticed which way the nymphs were heading.

I'd like to find the DVD by the guy that did "The Underwater World of Trout" or something with a similar name. He may have noticed which way.
Anyone have the DVD?

Bill

silvercreek
12-14-2011, 09:39 AM
Here is a video of hatching midges. Notice how bright the heads are.
http://midcurrent.com/videos/the-life-cycle-of-midges/

kentuckytroutbum
12-14-2011, 10:19 AM
Here is a video of hatching midges. Notice how bright the heads are.
http://midcurrent.com/videos/the-life-cycle-of-midges/

silvercreek-

Thanks for the link, that was the video series that I was really thinking about!

Looks to me that the midge larvae were going headfirst up to the surface, and then headfirst downstream, until they hatch. It looked to me that the current was going from right to left. Is that what you saw?

Think I might be tying some reverse flies in the near future.

Bill

silvercreek
12-14-2011, 10:44 AM
Yep. I'm betting trout are keying in on the brightness of the head of the midge. The point about the midges attaching to the surface and making a "U" shape was interesting. I've tied a midge that floats hook point up at the surface, but I have yet to get a chance to try it. I suspect it will have some issues staying point up in flowing water.

5xtippett
12-14-2011, 12:53 PM
I have known Ole Smoke for a while now and have fished with him on the Smith and the South Holston. If he ties something it will catch a fish. He doesn't tie something for looks. He studies the bug and then ties the fly. Deny it Ole Smoke!:biggrin:

kentuckytroutbum
12-15-2011, 02:09 PM
Yep. I'm betting trout are keying in on the brightness of the head of the midge. The point about the midges attaching to the surface and making a "U" shape was interesting. I've tied a midge that floats hook point up at the surface, but I have yet to get a chance to try it. I suspect it will have some issues staying point up in flowing water.

You might try tying some lead or tungsten wire to the hook shank and see if it goes hook up for use as a nymph, or a small lead head jig hook. I tie saltwater flies also for bonefish, permit, etc. and you want the fly to go hook up without snagging turtle grass, sea weed, etc.

The other idea, for a surface midge is to use small foam cylinders for the body.

Bill

olesmoke
12-15-2011, 07:43 PM
Ok here is what I found with the float tests today........the CDC becomes the axis and the hook bend acts like a cantilever to lift the tail of the fly.Nice look for an ole hairball.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/22midge/PICT0211-2.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/22midge/PICT0216.jpg

silvercreek
12-15-2011, 08:39 PM
Interesting, but I wonder what will happen if a leader is attached. It's a neat looking pattern. I like the pics too. I tried taking some photos from the underside of a fly floating, but did not get the good results you did.

olesmoke
12-15-2011, 08:53 PM
set a mirror under a petri dish and photograph the image in the mirror

kentuckytroutbum
12-16-2011, 09:21 AM
olesmoke-

Great photo, really shows how the midge will float in the surface film.

Thanks for sharing that with us, I'll be tying some reverse flies soon.

Bill

flyman
12-16-2011, 12:40 PM
Interesting information and photos. Midges in the surface film are prime targets, much more so than the larva or adult stage IMO.

silvercreek
12-20-2011, 11:47 AM
Here is my attempt at duplicating an emerging midge as seen in the video.
The fly:
http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss334/silvercreek_01/UMidge2001.jpg
As the trout sees it.
http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss334/silvercreek_01/Umidge009.jpg

olesmoke
12-21-2011, 08:07 PM
very nice .Appreciate you sharing your ideas & showing your pattern

MadisonBoats
12-22-2011, 12:26 PM
olesmoke-

That's fine, but I still think you may have stumbled onto something. I'd still like to know the head first thing. Madison Boats shot a lot of underwater videos of trout earlier this year, and I wonder if he noticed which way the nymphs were heading.

I'd like to find the DVD by the guy that did "The Underwater World of Trout" or something with a similar name. He may have noticed which way.
Anyone have the DVD?

Bill

Bill,
I have noticed that midges swim and move in all directions from reviewing my videos. Well, most of the time I shoot video in a feeding lie that is behind a shoal or obstruction. This causes the underwater vortexes to move the midges/food in all directions. Also; I have noticed that the midges move sideways, forward, etc. in their quest to move to the surface.

*You really should try and get a copy of "The Underwater World of Trout". It is the best video I have ever watched in regards to teaching me something about trout.
------
I think some of these flies look great and it is a great idea to see how they look under water. I would suggest adding some tippet to them to see how it affects their presentation. I love the reverse ties of the midges.

kentuckytroutbum
12-22-2011, 12:42 PM
Shawn-

Regarding "Underwater World of Trout", I sent an e-mail to Ozzie O. who filmed & produced Underwater World, and posed the question to him regarding aquatic insects and trout. His response was that he didn't key in on the behavior of the bugs that the trout were feeding upon. He also said that he was concerned about using too much high intensity lighting for shooting videos, and that it might affect the natural behavior of trout. (Wish I had saved his e-mail, and I would have posted it).

So, I quess that the question is still unanswered about bugs going head first or tail first down the current. I'm tying some reversed FB BHPT's and Prince's to try them out, still think that it's an interesting idea from OleSMoke. Proof is in the catch.

Bill

P.S. At first, its a little weird tying a reversed fly because you have to think and then tie it backwards. You have to build a thread dam in front of and behind the bead to hold it in position, and use head cement to hold it, otherwise it slides down the hook bend.

MadisonBoats
12-22-2011, 01:15 PM
Bill,
This video shows how diverse the movement of benthic life is on the river. You will notice bugs, sediment moving in all directions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7ikzMNIRDA&list=UUKYPu34NylI3pjfXUQHl-lg&index=12&feature=plcp

kentuckytroutbum
12-22-2011, 04:03 PM
Shawn-

Thanks for the link.

Bill

flyman
12-23-2011, 02:06 AM
I'm more interested in what level in the water column my fly is in verses it's orientation.

MadisonBoats
12-23-2011, 07:28 AM
One new technique I have discovered is bumping a midge! I have started to bump my midges to give them swimming action and to act as a catalyst for the fish to strike. It works fantastic on my maggot midge.:biggrin:

Visualize this fly being bumped erratically to mimic the benthic life in my aforementioned video!

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/249336_10150342709273319_718858318_9596276_7805081 _n.jpg

Kytroutbum
12-24-2011, 12:13 PM
The ascending larvae in the video reminded of Gary La Fontine's Bowtie ( halo?)Midge. His pattern seems to copy not only the look but also the movement with the maribou tail.