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AL trout bum
01-09-2012, 09:14 PM
has anyone fished the tribal waters and/or trophy waters in Cherokee, NC? I am going with a group next weekend, and have no clue what to expect or what works there. Thanks in advance...
Matt

Flat Fly n
01-10-2012, 04:42 PM
yes last fall. Keep your money and go to the casino IMO. Better chance at striking it rich than catching a fish in those waters.

Rainbow Warrior
01-10-2012, 06:53 PM
Not necessarily. I fished it earlier this fall and it was real good. I just had to use really small flies on 7x. Fun fights. Just find deeper slow areas. You can usually see the fish.

AL trout bum
01-10-2012, 07:44 PM
Not necessarily. I fished it earlier this fall and it was real good. I just had to use really small flies on 7x. Fun fights. Just find deeper slow areas. You can usually see the fish.

What flies would you recommend? And when you say small, do you mean sz18? or smaller? I have never been to the area and don't do this often, so I want the trip to not be a skunking! :redface:

waterwolf
01-10-2012, 11:19 PM
yes last fall. Keep your money and go to the casino IMO. Better chance at striking it rich than catching a fish in those waters.
Haha, I wouldn't waste one nickel in that sewer water.

Nothing worse IMO then fresh stockers, crowds, and trash littered stream banks.

Save your money and dip into the park, fish Bradley's Fork or the Oconoluftee. You will be happier, trust me.

AL trout bum
01-11-2012, 01:21 AM
Well it seems plenty of people have caught fish there. And I doubt there will be crowds as cold as it's going to be. I just need some direction from those that have.....

waterwolf
01-11-2012, 08:07 AM
Well it seems plenty of people have caught fish there. And I doubt there will be crowds as cold as it's going to be. I just need some direction from those that have.....
I have fished it, quite a few times, and there are plenty of fish. Fish aren't the issue it is everything else.

Try nymphs of various kinds usually #14 PT's will work fine, but do not go without a bunch of egg patterns. Stockers love eggs.

War Eagle BTW.

AL trout bum
01-11-2012, 11:08 AM
Oh I have some egg patterns! That's my last resort. I heard there is a winter stonefly hatch there sometimes, but don't know if I can get away with sz14-16, or if I must use sz18-20.

War Eagle!!!

Wilson10
01-11-2012, 01:42 PM
War Eagle!!!


I thought ya'll were Tigers?!?

Sorry, couldn't resist:biggrin:

narcodog
01-11-2012, 08:40 PM
We stopped by there yesterday. The water was pretty high and that was before the rains came. We were not fishing but I did not see any trash along the banks.

We fished the Oconalufty, no hatches were seen.

Oh, I have not nor ever will fish the Ravens Fork, but that's just me.

waterwolf
01-12-2012, 08:03 AM
I thought ya'll were Tigers?!?

Sorry, couldn't resist:biggrin:
We are a multitude of critters, depends on the day :biggrin:

MadisonBoats
01-12-2012, 08:34 AM
Haha, I wouldn't waste one nickel in that sewer water.

Nothing worse IMO then fresh stockers, crowds, and trash littered stream banks.

Save your money and dip into the park, fish Bradley's Fork or the Oconoluftee. You will be happier, trust me.

Have you fished the Clinch in the past 20 years? Coal Creek seems to be Briceville's septic system. Plus; the hind's creek and the industrial park have all kinds of dumps in the river. After the 61 bridge; I notice an insane drop off of benthic and fish quality.

waterwolf
01-13-2012, 12:24 AM
Have you fished the Clinch in the past 20 years? Coal Creek seems to be Briceville's septic system. Plus; the hind's creek and the industrial park have all kinds of dumps in the river. After the 61 bridge; I notice an insane drop off of benthic and fish quality.
I think I have fished the Clinch once in the last 20 years, but I could be wrong.

Coal creek is a piss trickle which comes into the river most days, you are talking about 1/10 the flow coming out of that creek if that. It certainly isn't the whole river like the Cherokee streams.

What could possibly pollute Hind's Creek? A few cows? Hinds Creek doesn't flow through anything except for cow pastures and woods. Don't understand this example.

The fish quality is outstanding below 61 bridge, and the benthic life takes a major hit from water depth which correlates to no weed growth which is vital to the limited species that inhabit the Clinch. Nothing related to run off or pollution is affecting the lower Clinch tailwater. The problem is the fish population is low (stripers/muskie) and poor habitat are the reasons, not water quality.

Sewage, pollution, industrial discharge, etc etc does not mean a reduction in benthic life or fish health. For example the Holston above Rogersville is seriously impacted by Kingsport and the Eastman plant, however it has huge hatches and a very healthy fish population. The Pigeon River which is still horribly polluted has monster insect hatches and unbelievable fish health. I could go on and on and on with examples.

The nastiness of Cherokee is more of an aesthetic nasty then anything else. The fish are straight out of the truck stockers which have little redeeming qualities other then they are a trout, and good for passing a little time.

MadisonBoats
01-13-2012, 08:08 AM
Coal creek is a piss trickle which comes into the river most days, you are talking about 1/10 the flow coming out of that creek if that. It certainly isn't the whole river like the Cherokee streams. True, but the quality of the flow out-ways the amount. One drop of oil can pollute gallons of water. Plus, the amount of debris the continually comes out of there is amazing.

What could possibly pollute Hind's Creek? A few cows? Hinds Creek doesn't flow through anything except for cow pastures and woods. Don't understand this example. Several of the factories in the new I-75 Industrial Park have been sited by the EPA for letting high levels of heavy metals get in to the sewer system and runoff. It gets all the runoff from the garbage dump and Clinton Exit. And; yes run off from livestock can cause problems; but, I believe that is a dying bunch with all the development.

The fish quality is outstanding below 61 bridge, and the benthic life takes a major hit from water depth which correlates to no weed growth which is vital to the limited species that inhabit the Clinch. Nothing related to run off or pollution is affecting the lower Clinch tailwater. The problem is the fish population is low (stripers/muskie) and poor habitat are the reasons, not water quality. I agree that the drastic water depth change changes the dynamic. Also; I do think the stripers have a huge affect in that region. Not sure about the muskies; as I have not seen any that far up yet. I know they are thick at the steam plant. I do notice all the factory discharge areas in the Clinch with their EPA Notices. I looked up some of the numbers on the internet and the chemical makeup was very alarming-even though most samples were within their permit levels. Also; the City of Clinton's sewer system overflows/leaches in the Clinch all the time. I can attest to that living along the river and seeing feminine products overflowing in to the streets and yards.

Sewage, pollution, industrial discharge, etc etc does not mean a reduction in benthic life or fish health. For example the Holston above Rogersville is seriously impacted by Kingsport and the Eastman plant, however it has huge hatches and a very healthy fish population. The Pigeon River which is still horribly polluted has monster insect hatches and unbelievable fish health. I could go on and on and on with examples.

The nastiness of Cherokee is more of an aesthetic nasty then anything else. The fish are straight out of the truck stockers which have little redeeming qualities other then they are a trout, and good for passing a little time.I was not trying to insult you; I was just trying to use this point to help illustrate that this is a huge issue for all of us and we need to work together to combat it to protect our natural resources. Anderson County and Clinton is willing to sell its soul to get some/any business. I believe we have to be careful and maintain our codes enforcement, EPA Reviews, Etc. A large coal plant was closed in Devonia-Briceville last week for dumping high levels of runoff in to the streams. We all need to think about this stuff and to speak our minds.

Sorry to side track the topic!

AL trout bum
01-13-2012, 01:24 PM
Back on topic....

So has anyone fished up there? Even in the park on that side? I would appreciate any help.

nunavut4
01-13-2012, 05:13 PM
I have fished there a few times over the last two years. Pink San Juan and trail a peach Egg to start with. Then try a black or brown stone fly trailed off of the worm. Black Wooly buggers with a pheasant tail or black wetfly trailed off. Now if you see one of those golden trout you can keep sane and ignore it or toss really bright buggers at it, orange, pink etc.
One of the few perks of fishing there nature wise is that you may see some of the Elk that live over there. Hope you have a good time with your friends.
Mark

AL trout bum
01-13-2012, 05:32 PM
I have fished there a few times over the last two years. Pink San Juan and trail a peach Egg to start with. Then try a black or brown stone fly trailed off of the worm. Black Wooly buggers with a pheasant tail or black wetfly trailed off. Now if you see one of those golden trout you can keep sane and ignore it or toss really bright buggers at it, orange, pink etc.
One of the few perks of fishing there nature wise is that you may see some of the Elk that live over there. Hope you have a good time with your friends.
Mark

Thanks Mark. I am not totally sold on the trophy waters yet. I might spend my time on deep creek, bradley fork and possibly the Tuck DH. We'll see. What size stones? Could I get away with sz14-16, or is it a must to go smaller?

nunavut4
01-13-2012, 05:47 PM
I have used a size 12 or 14 Stone fly the most. While I prefer to fish the park or a Smallie river, it is a lot of fun to hit pay water for big pellet feed pigs trout once in a while.

waterwolf
01-14-2012, 12:02 AM
Rather then clog this thing up with pollution jargain, let's start another topic if we want to get into that. I agree with Madison on that, we got to hijacking really bad.

Another fly I forgot about that is deadly on stockers is a hot pink hare's ear with a gold bead. When I say hot pink, I mean hot freaking pink. Before you laugh find some or tie some and try them, trust me they work and work well. Usually a 14 is fine, but sometimes a 12 is even better.

RuningWolf
01-15-2012, 05:05 PM
Back on topic....

So has anyone fished up there? Even in the park on that side? I would appreciate any help.

I have fished there a few times in the past. There is some nice water up river from town near the parks visitor center (If memory serves me correctly). There are some deep holes that required weighted nymphs.

There are also lots of areas where you can get away from the road. A word of caution, donít leave valuables where they can be seen in your vehicle. Despite the casino the people of the Cherokee Nation are relatively poor and money for drug/alcohol abuse runs high

RuningWolf
01-15-2012, 05:11 PM
I think I have fished the Clinch once in the last 20 years, but I could be wrong.

Coal creek is a piss trickle which comes into the river most days, you are talking about 1/10 the flow coming out of that creek if that. It certainly isn't the whole river like the Cherokee streams.

What could possibly pollute Hind's Creek? A few cows? Hinds Creek doesn't flow through anything except for cow pastures and woods. Don't understand this example.

The fish quality is outstanding below 61 bridge, and the benthic life takes a major hit from water depth which correlates to no weed growth which is vital to the limited species that inhabit the Clinch. Nothing related to run off or pollution is affecting the lower Clinch tailwater. The problem is the fish population is low (stripers/muskie) and poor habitat are the reasons, not water quality.

Sewage, pollution, industrial discharge, etc etc does not mean a reduction in benthic life or fish health. For example the Holston above Rogersville is seriously impacted by Kingsport and the Eastman plant, however it has huge hatches and a very healthy fish population. The Pigeon River which is still horribly polluted has monster insect hatches and unbelievable fish health. I could go on and on and on with examples.

The nastiness of Cherokee is more of an aesthetic nasty then anything else. The fish are straight out of the truck stockers which have little redeeming qualities other then they are a trout, and good for passing a little time.

Essentially all the trout in the Clinch are stockers

Coal Creek while dirty being slowly cleaned up and has had spawns recorded in it a few times.

Hines creek is about as dirty water quality wise as Coal Creek. There is tons of agricultural (chemical as well as fecal) run off as well as that from industry, commercial as well as developmental and people who for the most part treat the creek much like people along Coal Creek have

waterwolf
01-15-2012, 11:29 PM
Essentially all the trout in the Clinch are stockers

Coal Creek while dirty being slowly cleaned up and has had spawns recorded in it a few times.

Hines creek is about as dirty water quality wise as Coal Creek. There is tons of agricultural (chemical as well as fecal) run off as well as that from industry, commercial as well as developmental and people who for the most part treat the creek much like people along Coal Creek have
There is a ton of spawning which occurs in everyone of the feeder creeks which run into the Clinch, period. Success rates are unkown because of the ace game agency we have running the show.

If you are going to speak about a streams water quality, at least spell the name of the creek right. It is Hinds Creek, not Hines.