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Corbo
05-06-2012, 09:21 AM
Had an awesome Saturday on the Clinch; started with SM just after the early rain up river running BHPT's under float and landed wicked awesome chunky brown about 19 or 20, several really nice bows and brookies . Just before Noon 30 I landed a very hefty bow as big as previous brown. As generation was to start we walked out for lunch.

After we moved down to Church we finally meet HH (Guru of the Holston) who was on his way out (recognized him from his manicure LOL) and asked to see his fly boxes! Hugh graciously shared several flies that I will certainly reproduce and add to my boxes shortly.

Fishing was tough through the afternoon; sparse hatch of tannish sulphers
but managed to land several chunky brookies and couple smaller bows on a flashback doing a dry/dropper with one laned on the dry.

Should have tied on Hugh's splitcase but decided to not risk losing it. Moreover I should tied on my own unweighted foam bubble surface nymph as the beads were runing under the fish that were mostly ignoring the dries and eating hard into the film on emergers.

An awesome day; sadly I have to work until at least Thursday and can do it again.

Flat Fly n
05-06-2012, 03:24 PM
Congrats!

Now you know why many us here are passionate about the Clinch.

mstone
05-06-2012, 09:50 PM
Corbo,

Glad you caught some decent fish on the river Saturday. I was at the church all day on Saturday and it was tougher this week for me. The hatch got going good around 3:00 and went till the water came up at 6:00. The fish I saw eating good insisted on feeding in the flat water above the riffles. They were especially tough. Emergers were about the only thing I could get a look with and there were not many at that. Split case took one fish. Puff daddy's caught a few more. Crackelback's were working pretty well for one guy fishing near me. Fun day all in all.

MadisonBoats
05-07-2012, 08:06 AM
Corbo,
Had a great time fishing with you man! Great amount of fly fishing information and a cordial fishing partner! You should have tried my mayfly spinner pattern and fished it mad skill style.:biggrin:

Hugh Hartsell
05-07-2012, 10:00 AM
Fellows,
It was good meeting all of you on the Clinch. It's nice to put a face with names. I hope to run into all of you again. I've sure seen some nice fish this year.
Hugh

Corbo
05-07-2012, 11:31 PM
Shawn; I would have to say that watching you throw a size 14 sulphur flat poly-wing spinner during the morning when there was no hatch and giving it a few twitches to entice a strike time and again was crazy awesome.... would not think it possible until I saw you do it several times!

So it looks like I will Need to tie up a few and try it myself; there is no doubt that the Clinch loves you as much as you love her....

Wish we had got a close-up photo of that chunky brown and looking forward to hitching up with a brown over 24 inches.... perhaps we trow those flat wing spinners and twitch them after dark some time?

If I were in charge of things at TWRA I would definitely stock more browns on the Clinch even if it meant reducing the rainbow stocking.

MadisonBoats
05-08-2012, 07:58 AM
Shawn; I would have to say that watching you throw a size 14 sulphur flat poly-wing spinner during the morning when there was no hatch and giving it a few twitches to entice a strike time and again was crazy awesome.... would not think it possible until I saw you do it several times!

So it looks like I will Need to tie up a few and try it myself; there is no doubt that the Clinch loves you as much as you love her....

Wish we had got a close-up photo of that chunky brown and looking forward to hitching up with a brown over 24 inches.... perhaps we trow those flat wing spinners and twitch them after dark some time?

If I were in charge of things at TWRA I would definitely stock more browns on the Clinch even if it meant reducing the rainbow stocking.

I love throwing dries right now even though they are prevalently taking nymphs. I think my dry technique makes them think there is a hatch starting or it works off their recent feeding instinct. Anyway; it was nice to see a large bow come up take it.

Yeah, I have some pictures of your larger fish; but, we were too far apart to really tell what was going on...

Nice to meet Hugh on the water. I a great ambassador for our sport!

Wilson10
05-08-2012, 10:39 AM
I think my dry technique makes them think there is a hatch starting

Care to expand on that?

tnflyfisher
05-08-2012, 11:04 AM
When you drift an area so many times that you create your own hatch and get the fish looking up... :biggrin:

In the park I am often too stubborn to tie on a nymph or even fish a dropper, so I resort to using repeated drifts and sometimes various versions of dancing dry fly kung-fu if necessary in order to get the fish to the surface.

Tight Lines,

Flat Fly n
05-08-2012, 01:44 PM
Old Adirondack Mt. trick of fishing "spiders"....look it up. Basically, the trout has a brain and can therefore learn after being stuck, pricked, hooked numerous times, therefore it learns that an insect moving/jerked is a REAL one and not going to hurt it.

A neuron is a neuron no matter what species it happens to be sitting in, except maybe a 15 y.o. male!

appalachian angler
05-08-2012, 09:53 PM
Glad ya'll had a good day! I was out the day before on Friday afternoon and did fantastic on the streach betwixt Mas. and the rif below Millers Is. Fly of the day was a Tung BH quasi-PT flash back tied on a sz 14 2457 TMC hook floated about 12" below a yarn indie. Caught two 17" bows back to back and quite a few in the 12-14" range though those runs. The supher hatch was marginal and the fish were getting in the lanes to sip the emerging nymphs as they struggled to hatch.

aa

Corbo
05-09-2012, 07:35 AM
AA; good call on your fly choice and depth, I did about the same area the same way the following day!

Corbo
05-09-2012, 07:47 AM
Wilson 10

Shawn had a size 14 sulphur SPINNER, NO Hackle just flat tie dun poly wings. He cast it into slow side water and chugged & twitched "bass bug style" and recieved savage strikes.

It is entirely possible that during the overnight hours there was a spinner fall so the fish are accustomed to seeing dying mayflies on the surface.

Actually fishing during a spinner fall is a rare event for most people; it has happened to me only a few times and I do not carry flies to "match" them.

Too often we ASSUME so much about trout behavior; surprises keep it interesting. While it's nice to just go out and catch trout on the seemingly can't miss times I much enjoy tougher fishing like saturday afternoon at the church when the fish had about seen everything by the time I got there... still managed several nice fish but boy did I need to work for them.

Hope to have some of HUGH's split cases made up by Saturday but the CABLE GUY is coming that morning to fix the mess he made last week so I don't know if I will make it.

MadisonBoats
05-09-2012, 08:27 AM
When you drift an area so many times that you create your own hatch and get the fish looking up...

I completely agree with this idea and I have utilized it many times with quick-subtle-repetitive casts.

Shawn had a size 14 sulphur SPINNER, NO Hackle just flat tie dun poly wings. He cast it into slow side water and chugged & twitched "bass bug style" and recieved savage strikes.

It is entirely possible that during the overnight hours there was a spinner fall so the fish are accustomed to seeing dying mayflies on the surface.

Actually fishing during a spinner fall is a rare event for most people; it has happened to me only a few times and I do not carry flies to "match" them.


Corbo, I was actually trying to not mimic a spinner and fishing size 12s:eek:. I have been wearing them out on this pattern/technique and I do not plan on throwing anything but dries for the next month or so....This is my time of year for dry humping it.

Here is the pattern I am throwing.


Size 12-14 hook
sulphur dry fly dubbing
wing (grey poly + strip of black antron)
figure 8 wrap the wing and then wrap several times parachute style to keep them up-swept-*the idea is not to mimic a spinner, but to mimic an adult dry with up-swept wings.
add some cement to the wing base to keep them high.
don't add hackle as it will mask the thorax profile-idea is to promote quick recognition for the trout
fish fairly tight and allow it to drift past your cast landing, then finger twitch to induce strikes.
also works spectacular in fast water...

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/525599_10150973445893319_718858318_11995897_206868 3894_n.jpg

waterwolf
05-09-2012, 08:37 PM
When you drift an area so many times that you create your own hatch and get the fish looking up.



If this were possible I could go to the Clinch or any other river, tie on any fly I choose and if I drift it enough times the fish will eventually think it is a hatch and start eating a fly no matter how absurd it might be for where ever I am fishing.

Anyone who believes the above please raise your hand?

tnflyfisher
05-09-2012, 09:10 PM
If this were possible I could go to the Clinch or any other river, tie on any fly I choose and if I drift it enough times the fish will eventually think it is a hatch and start eating a fly no matter how absurd it might be for where ever I am fishing.

Anyone who believes the above please raise your hand?

If you were to go back and reread my post, you would see that I made no mention of the Clinch or any other body of water for that matter, nor did I indicate that any random fly would work. I was specifically describing a technique that I use for fishing streams in the park. I know you can't see me but I am letting you know that I have my hand raised... :rolleyes:

I completely agree with this idea and I have utilized it many times with quick-subtle-repetitive casts.


Apparently others do as well... ;)

Tight Lines,

MadisonBoats
05-10-2012, 12:45 AM
If this were possible I could go to the Clinch or any other river, tie on any fly I choose and if I drift it enough times the fish will eventually think it is a hatch and start eating a fly no matter how absurd it might be for where ever I am fishing.

Anyone who believes the above please raise your hand?

I put $10,000 down on it if you have the balls to show up this time.

You drinking again Jim Jordan or experiencing that little man's syndrome again? I thought we had a talk about this last time and how you were going to try and do better(?) I saw your ride at Miller's Sunday and I am sure we will run in to each other...

I have one of the most varied fly boxes you will ever see and I catch fish consistently on anything I throw. Now your philosophy of throwing a bhpt would bore me to death and I would rather fish with worms if that is all I threw...

Corbo
05-10-2012, 01:18 AM
I think Brook trout are beautiful but they are so absolutely foolish, gullible and MOOCHIE that I do believe they will eat anything they might even imagine is food. It bores the crap out of me to catch them; and i consider them "by-catch".

No doubt TWRA stocks them in the Clinch so people can feel successful fly fishing when the rainbows are fussy and the brown trout are totally tight lipped.

I caught a pile of brookies Saturday afternoon at the Church in water that had been totally SPANKED ALL DAY. I fished a spot after two guys left in disgust and still caught brookies and a couple bows.

So then this dude (about 60 and old enough to know better manners) totally tramples in front of me across the flow I'm fishing into with a dry-dropper and says, "Excuse me; I'm just passing through" and then proceeds to CAST his way through 20 feet away from me and tramples over the water I'm fishing. Well the dude had a CREEL on his hip and the last I saw him it was still empty.... not talented enough to catch a fool brookie.

SO If ANYONE is making a claim that they can throw something long enough to give the appearance of a hatch to fish in a river (any river) and expecting to catch fish.... I would expect it to be brook trout that would put up with someone casting over them 200 times to "create the illusion of a hatch" and then catch the fish... fact is if brook trout are in the water you are fishing you will likely catch them regardless of fly. presentation or spanking the crap out of them.

withdraw your bet Shawn.

waterwolf
05-10-2012, 03:32 AM
I put $10,000 down on it if you have the balls to show up this time.

You drinking again Jim Jordan or experiencing that little man's syndrome again? I thought we had a talk about this last time and how you were going to try and do better(?) I saw your ride at Miller's Sunday and I am sure we will run in to each other...

I have one of the most varied fly boxes you will ever see and I catch fish consistently on anything I throw. Now your philosophy of throwing a bhpt would bore me to death and I would rather fish with worms if that is all I threw...


You didn't see my ride at Millers on Saturday, I haven't fished at Millers in probably 15 years, and haven't been on the Clinch since March. I was deep in the woods.

My wording was poor, and we can certainly catch fish on a wide variety of flies to each of our liking or choosing. And as I have said before, I am stuck in a horrible rut when it comes to pattern variations on our tailwaters. I do not doubt for one second that fish can be caught on any manner of patterns, and most of the patterns that you post up here would work.

I was referring to tricking fish into thinking a hatch is starting. Like a lot of wild critters, fish are pretty in tune with what is going on around them, and duping them into thinking it is a hatch is difficult to believe.

Duping them into eating a wide variation of flies is not hard to believe, and I absolutely agree that many many different flies will work, and many times something random can work better than an old stand by. Hope that clarifies my post from last night.

Don't be so touchy, I wasn't trying to start any pissing matches, not this time :biggrin:

MadisonBoats
05-10-2012, 09:55 AM
You didn't see my ride at Millers on Saturday, I haven't fished at Millers in probably 15 years, and haven't been on the Clinch since March. I was deep in the woods.

My wording was poor, and we can certainly catch fish on a wide variety of flies to each of our liking or choosing. And as I have said before, I am stuck in a horrible rut when it comes to pattern variations on our tailwaters. I do not doubt for one second that fish can be caught on any manner of patterns, and most of the patterns that you post up here would work.

I was referring to tricking fish into thinking a hatch is starting. Like a lot of wild critters, fish are pretty in tune with what is going on around them, and duping them into thinking it is a hatch is difficult to believe.

Duping them into eating a wide variation of flies is not hard to believe, and I absolutely agree that many many different flies will work, and many times something random can work better than an old stand by. Hope that clarifies my post from last night.

Don't be so touchy, I wasn't trying to start any pissing matches, not this time :biggrin:

I can appreciate your clarification and I respect your point.

However, I do disagree about creating an artificial hatch. The logic and correct method allows for this to be possible. ....Not saying you can trick a trout to thinking there is a mayfly hatch in December....but, if you can trick them to taking a dry sulphur-why not trick them in to thinking there is a hatch with repetitive approaches of the same fly...?:cool:

I have tons of new video with my new HD Hero. However; my pc is super slow at editing the high-end video. I will try and put together a video illustrating my idea and how I fish it both from the fisherman perspective and the trout perspective underwater.

SM

waterwolf
05-10-2012, 10:06 AM
I can appreciate your clarification and I respect your point.

However, I do disagree about creating an artificial hatch. The logic and correct method allows for this to be possible. ....Not saying you can trick a trout to thinking there is a mayfly hatch in December....but, if you can trick them to taking a dry sulphur-why not trick them in to thinking there is a hatch with repetitive approaches of the same fly...?:cool:

I have tons of new video with my new HD Hero. However; my pc is super slow at editing the high-end video. I will try and put together a video illustrating my idea and how I fish it both from the fisherman perspective and the trout perspective underwater.

SM
Anything is possible, and having never tried it, **** it might be the missing link.

Look forward to seeing the new.vids

Wilson10
05-10-2012, 05:51 PM
I don't subscribe to the creating an artificial hatch either. I agree trout are in tune with their surroundings. I would enjoy seeing a video if one exists.

Heck it could just be THE missing link. hahaaha

I'm not trying to offend anyone, just a difference of opinion I suppose.

waterwolf
05-10-2012, 09:07 PM
I'm not trying to offend anyone, just a difference of opinion I suppose.

Same for me, and I worded my post last night in a manner which I could understand some taking offense to.

It is a worthy thing to try however, the only way to test the theory would be to take a green drake of some other odd ball imitation which generally won't work, and try it to see if it will work.

Flat Fly n
05-10-2012, 10:07 PM
I'm going to the Clinch tomorrow and throwing all my crappy flies in the water upstream and then running downstream and wait on the pseudo-hatch to get them going. Recycling with a purpose.....I like it!

tnflyfisher
05-11-2012, 09:53 AM
It is a worthy thing to try however, the only way to test the theory would be to take a green drake of some other odd ball imitation which generally won't work, and try it to see if it will work.

You guys are taking it in a completely different direction and I think are missing the point...

The idea is NOT to go out there and try to fool a trout with a green drake or other 'odd ball imitation' but instead to simulate a hatch that is currently in cycle. Heck, I don't even fish a green drake and yet there are rare hatches of drakes in the mountains. It is just not worth the effort and it is best to concentrate on stronger patterns. For instance, say quill gordons have been hatching recently but don't happen to come out when you are on the water. With the right timing and technique you can get the trout in a run coming up and taking your quill gordon dry consistently if you know what you are doing, even without a 'hatch' going on... ;)

Tight Lines,

Waterborn
05-11-2012, 11:24 AM
Artificial chumming...interesting...

I can see WW point...cause if you are already throwing a bug that's in season and the fish are already tuned onto it, are you really forcing an untimely response from the fish to deviate from its normal behavior? If its taking a bunch of cast for the fish to take a fly that is already in season, seems to me it could be more about getting the presentation right.
In the park, I think the fish are a bit more opportunistic and would eat most buggy looking flies if presented right, year around, hatch or not. I don't know if its forcing a hatch for them as much as its - "hey it looks food and acts like food, might be food-get it before its gone" I think that's why general/generic patterns and attractor patterns works so well.

Regardless, to me one of the beautiful facets of fly fishing is the ability to make it your own. And as such - to each his own.

tnflyfisher
05-11-2012, 11:58 AM
I can see WW point...cause if you are already throwing a bug that's in season and the fish are already tuned onto it, are you really forcing an untimely response from the fish to deviate from its normal behavior? If its taking a bunch of cast for the fish to take a fly that is already in season, seems to me it could be more about getting the presentation right.
In the park, I think the fish are a bit more opportunistic and would eat most buggy looking flies if presented right, year around, hatch or not. I don't know if its forcing a hatch for them as much as its - "hey it looks food and acts like food, might be food-get it before its gone" I think that's why general/generic patterns and attractor patterns works so well.


Exactly, that's part of the whole point and I totally agree with you 100%... :cool: Just trying to make it clear that it was never mentioned anywhere that someone can take something completely foreign and try to fool, trick, convince a trout to think that magically there is some hatch going on that is out of the norm... I think words were added along the way and it became something it wasn't. And I know the mountains and the tailwaters are two different environments. All that was ever implied was that even if there are not any hatches coming off, you can still successfully catch trout on dry flies and mimicking a 'hatch' is a good technique to get them fired up and coming to the surface. That was all... :cool:

Tight Lines,

waterwolf
05-11-2012, 12:11 PM
Can a person go to the Clinch and catch a fish at 8 am on a sulfur dry right now? Absolutely, they are aware the bugs are hatching and are keyed into their presence, so they will take one if presented properly.

However, some of the fish won't until the nymphs become active, and adults begin to show up on the surface.

This goes back to the perpetual view that trout are stupid. In other words, some if not most can't remember what happen 12 hours ago, and it takes a good number of bugs to get them in the groove of eating them every day.

Thank god for the dumb ones with short memories, if not it might be impossible to catch more than 1-2 a trip.

Wilson10
05-11-2012, 05:01 PM
Can a person go to the Clinch and catch a fish at 8 am on a sulfur dry right now? Absolutely, they are aware the bugs are hatching and are keyed into their presence, so they will take one if presented properly.

However, some of the fish won't until the nymphs become active, and adults begin to show up on the surface.

This goes back to the perpetual view that trout are stupid. In other words, some if not most can't remember what happen 12 hours ago, and it takes a good number of bugs to get them in the groove of eating them every day.

Thank god for the dumb ones with short memories, if not it might be impossible to catch more than 1-2 a trip.

>>>>>>>Yup

MadisonBoats
05-12-2012, 10:24 AM
Fellas, I respect all of your opinions and I enjoy learning from them as well.

One thing to think of...Any pattern you throw and catch fish on is mimicking some type of aquatic activity or stimulating a reaction from trout. The patterns that generally work the most are in tune to the recent benthic activity.

That being said; what feeding trait tells the trout when it is time to start taking dry flies(?) In my opinion, it is an increased presence of emergent nymphs and actual adults on the water. There are correlating factors that trout could unknowingly relate as well-such as temperature, sunlight %, pH, oxygen content, etc...However; I think these factors are less influential than the basic desire to feed. As of recent; I have not witnessed any massive hatches. Most are limited and consist of a dry floating by every minute or two...So; it is very easy to repetitively induce a dry fly in to a feeding lie to simulate a hatch.

Fortunately; my personality is inventive and open to learning. I could not imagine fly fishing with 2-3 patterns and find that stimulating. But, that is the beauty of life and in choosing a fishing partner. I generally surround myself with positive and innovative people. Most of all; I shun negativity with a passion as it will eventually poison the soul and all those around it...
I Like this quote and I hope it some may enjoy it as well..."We all operate in two contrasting modes, which might be called open and closed. The open mode is more relaxed, more receptive, more exploratory, more democratic, more playful and more humorous. The closed mode is the tighter, more rigid, more hierarchical, more tunnel-visioned. Most people, unfortunately spend most of their time in the closed mode. Not that the closed mode cannot be helpful. If you are leaping a ravine, the moment of takeoff is a bad time for considering alternative strategies. When you charge the enemy machine-gun post, don't waste energy trying to see the funny side of it. Do it in the "closed" mode. But the moment the action is over, try to return to the "open" mode—to open your mind again to all the feedback from our action that enables us to tell whether the action has been successful, or whether further action is need to improve on what we have done. In other words, we must return to the open mode, because in that mode we are the most aware, most receptive, most creative, and therefore at our most intelligent."— John Cleese.:smile:

tnflyfisher
05-12-2012, 05:32 PM
So; it is very easy to repetitively induce a dry fly in to a feeding lie to simulate a hatch.


I could be wrong but I think we are on the same page here... ;)
Maybe I need to come fish the Clinch with you and we can bombard those trout with an arsenal of dry flies... :biggrin:

Tight Lines,

waterwolf
05-12-2012, 08:45 PM
I could not imagine fly fishing with 2-3 patterns and find that stimulating.


To each their own.

I used to wear an Orvis Super Tackle Pack that every pocket was loaded with different fly boxes with all sorts of stuff I would use, with varying success. I have caught fish in the Clinch on Yellow Humpies to Bitch Creek's.

However, when I go to the river now, and for the past 10 years or so, I have one goal in mind. Catching the most quality fish I can, period. And after 20+ years I have found a handful of patterns that I personally have the most success with in achieving my goals.

We all have different things that make for an enjoyable outing. None are wrong as long as they don't interfere with others.

Fish what and how makes you happy, and forget the rest.

MadisonBoats
05-13-2012, 07:55 AM
..........

We all have different things that make for an enjoyable outing. None are wrong as long as they don't interfere with others.

Fish what and how makes you happy, and forget the rest.

I completely agree and I am just fortunate to be able to get on the water. Most people find my fishing style odd. I enjoy telling trout what I want them to eat.:smile: It does reduce the numbers; be feeds the soul.

I apologize for the alluding to the drinking comment. I usually see the worst posts out of good people when they are inebriated-not that you were when you posted. Unfortunately; I have made a few of them as well and I try to use it as a reminder to be a better person to others and the world.

Now, I hope everyone gets to go out and trick some trout and have a safe fishing experience.

I could be wrong but I think we are on the same page here... ;)
Maybe I need to come fish the Clinch with you and we can bombard those trout with an arsenal of dry flies... I am booked solid for fishing the next 2-weeks for some serious fishing. However; shoot me an email and I will add you to my contact list for future fishing outings if you really want to fish with me...


Blessings,
SM

Corbo
05-13-2012, 10:05 AM
"Booked solid"? Shawn; you are so funny.... you fish about any time the river will cooperate with a fly fish friendly flow.... and I AM JEALOUS!

I need to get some cheap wheels with good gas mileage.

BTW... everyone PREFERS dry fly fishing; myself included BUT NYMPHING always works for me as I think of it as hunting for trout... seeing them on the surface tells one where to cast... not seeing them you have to understand the dynamics of trout behavior while considering structure and reading the water.... many time I enjoy nymphing more than dry fly fishing as the fish generally run larger.

waterwolf
05-13-2012, 10:31 PM
I apologize for the alluding to the drinking comment.

I don't drink, been clean for about 10 years now. Had a little issue with the sauce.





BTW... everyone PREFERS dry fly fishing; .

Easy now, I much prefer nymph fishing over fishing dries, except for smallmouth.

Screwing with dries and trout makes me tired.

MadisonBoats
05-14-2012, 08:33 AM
"Booked solid"? Shawn; you are so funny.... you fish about any time the river will cooperate with a fly fish friendly flow.... and I AM JEALOUS!

I need to get some cheap wheels with good gas mileage.

BTW... everyone PREFERS dry fly fishing; myself included BUT NYMPHING always works for me as I think of it as hunting for trout... seeing them on the surface tells one where to cast... not seeing them you have to understand the dynamics of trout behavior while considering structure and reading the water.... many time I enjoy nymphing more than dry fly fishing as the fish generally run larger.

Corbo...you forgot my Romanian friend is in town Wed-10 days.

I agree that nymphing is strategic and equally stimulating. I just think my personality gets fidgety with longer presentations.:biggrin:

troutmanbrook
05-17-2012, 10:05 AM
Corbo...you forgot my Romanian friend is in town Wed-10 days.

I agree that nymphing is strategic and equally stimulating. I just think my personality gets fidgety with longer presentations.:biggrin:

Hit me up one day, I would love to see mihai (i think) again.