PDA

View Full Version : Clinch Monsters


Corbo
08-12-2012, 08:56 AM
After some trout fishing yesterday on the Clinch with Shawn we motored past an enormous herd of HUGE stripers; not a small one in the bunch, most easily 30 inch and some nearly 50 inches long.

I hope to be back next Saturday with the appropriate Fly Gear, Boat, and enormous flies.

Until then it will be difficult to sleep without dreaming about them. I have caught zillions of stripers in New England waters but they were all sea run fish in the rivers. I so want to hook-up with a totally salt-free striper.

waterwolf
08-12-2012, 06:13 PM
Just be sure to slit their stomachs prior to release. Benchmade makes a nifty blade called a Rescue hook, run into their anus and zip it to their gill plates. They won't go far...

Corbo
08-12-2012, 10:03 PM
Well there were hundreds of them so I doubt it possible to catch them all. There did not appear to be any shortage of trout around.

waterwolf
08-12-2012, 10:18 PM
Well there were hundreds of them so I doubt it possible to catch them all. There did not appear to be any shortage of trout around.
Hundreds?...

ChemEAngler
08-12-2012, 10:27 PM
Question...

I had heard that the stripers stocked in the lakes around here are sterile. Is this true? Is it possible that the stripers are making a spawning run up the tailwater?

I have fished for them on the lakes, but as far as the habits of stripers I am completely unfamiliar with.

waterwolf
08-13-2012, 06:46 AM
Question...

I had heard that the stripers stocked in the lakes around here are sterile. Is this true? Is it possible that the stripers are making a spawning run up the tailwater?

I have fished for them on the lakes, but as far as the habits of stripers I am completely unfamiliar with.
They are not sterile, but from what I have read the requirements for them to successfully spawn do not exist here and thus the reason they have to be stocked in order to sustain the population.

Flat Fly n
08-13-2012, 02:38 PM
They are not sterile, but from what I have read the requirements for them to successfully spawn do not exist here and thus the reason they have to be stocked in order to sustain the population.

You must have not seen the movie Jurassic Park then! :biggrin:

MadisonBoats
08-13-2012, 02:43 PM
Well there were hundreds of them so I doubt it possible to catch them all. There did not appear to be any shortage of trout around.

I think Corbo was just a bit excited about seeing the stripers. We saw probably about a dozen or so in scattered group.:smile:

waterwolf
08-13-2012, 06:54 PM
I think Corbo was just a bit excited about seeing the stripers. We saw probably about a dozen or so in scattered group.:smile:

Thank heavens, I was discouraged. I have been killing them off and felt for a moment like they were spawning from the gravel.

MadisonBoats
08-14-2012, 06:52 AM
Thank heavens, I was discouraged. I have been killing them off and felt for a moment like they were spawning from the gravel.

I hate to kill anything; but, these things do seem to have been upstream longer than normal and they are putting a hurt on the trout. Keep working them if it will help the trout population.

No Hackle
08-14-2012, 11:01 AM
Hey guys I talked to a guy over at Melton Hill dam one day and he was catching stripers for a cook out for the soldiers that were coming home. Maybe if you could donate the fish to them. It would solve two problems. I dont know who to contact,but maybe contact your local VFW and see if they have a contact number. Just a thought.
Lynn

jeffnles1
08-14-2012, 06:11 PM
It's odd that one man's game fish is another man's trash fish.

Guys fishing for stripers use trout as bait. Guys fishing for trout want to eliminate the stripers. Just kind of odd.

I live in Kentucky and don't fish the Clinch. I'm not taking sides here at all.

Jeff

waterwolf
08-14-2012, 10:25 PM
It's odd that one man's game fish is another man's trash fish.

Guys fishing for stripers use trout as bait. Guys fishing for trout want to eliminate the stripers. Just kind of odd.

I live in Kentucky and don't fish the Clinch. I'm not taking sides here at all.

Jeff

I fish for Stripers on the Clinch using trout as bait. Kill a few to save many. What is your point?

fourx
08-15-2012, 02:29 PM
Hey 'wolf.
The big question is... What are you finding in their stomachs?

4X

David Knapp
08-15-2012, 04:42 PM
It's odd that one man's game fish is another man's trash fish.

Guys fishing for stripers use trout as bait. Guys fishing for trout want to eliminate the stripers. Just kind of odd.

I live in Kentucky and don't fish the Clinch. I'm not taking sides here at all.

Jeff

Jeff, that is the big problem here. I actually really enjoy fishing for both species but have never found good trout fishing to coexist with a great striper fishery. I believe that the decline of the Hiwassee coincided with stocking of stripers in Chickamauga and their subsequent trips up the HI as far as the powerhouse. I'm sure someone who has been around longer can verify that for sure. I know the past few years on the Caney have been a little tough on the trout scene and stripers are very active up and down the river. Too bad there is not some way to limit the stripers to the lower end of these great trout tailwaters. Obviously the trout and stripers can coexist to some extent, but the trout fishery will definitely not be as good as it can with the stripers around...

Wilson10
08-15-2012, 04:59 PM
Announcing the 1st Annual Striper Catch and Kill Tournament on the Clinch River.:biggrin:



I'm confident that if this problem isn't addressed quickly our Clinch could be on the decline in a hurry! If it isn't already

Flat Fly n
08-15-2012, 08:10 PM
Sign me up!

I'll bring the grill and the beer!

BTW. I wouldn't eat a striper from BELOW Melton Hill dam if you paid me! above it or out of Norris well then it's GRILL ON!

Jeffnles1,
$1,800,000 (150,000 fishermen x $trout stamp) spent by trout fishermen in TN to supply or manage a trout fisheries program by way of a TROUT STAMP. $ 0.00 spent on STRIPER STAMPS. Why not kill an invasive species in a river managed for trout?

I do the same for coyotes. They cause an estimated 30% mortality among deer herds. If you manage a resource on the revenues raised by selling a "right" to fish or hunt for a given species, then an invasive species moves in.....that species should be eliminated.

One question. Where would the Great Lakes fisheries (along with all the money raised for license/food/lodgeing/guides) and all the unbelievable tributary fisheries be today IF the DNR of the surrounding states had ideally sat by and allowed the lamphrey to continue to spread?

I would love for TWRA to come shock and sample the stripers out of the Clinch River and prove me wrong that they are there and they are not eating the trout we paid for.

http://www.americanhunter.org/ArticlePage.aspx?id=2121&cid=47

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/apr/24/tennessee-trout-hatcheries-facing-threat-of-cuts/

waterwolf
08-15-2012, 10:31 PM
Hey 'wolf.
The big question is... What are you finding in their stomachs?

4X
100% trout, and the larger ones we have caught 30lbs+ usually have about 15 trout in their stomachs. The size range from 8"-16" and they do not distinguish species.

MadisonBoats
08-16-2012, 06:59 AM
100% trout, and the larger ones we have caught 30lbs+ usually have about 15 trout in their stomachs. The size range from 8"-16" and they do not distinguish species.

Jim, true that! Most of my friends that fish for them use large bait. You should post that big boy you landed a few weeks ago...I would like to see some severe thinning of their numbers. I have spotted a few 5-10# carp with huge bite marks on them. Here is a photo of one of the stripers I got a picture of last Saturday with Corbo.

If anyone wants to know were the striper schools are located; just send me a message and I can map each holding lie on the tailwater along with density.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/488230_306097672822144_455881661_n.jpg

Corbo
08-16-2012, 07:53 AM
Fellas Fellas Fellas

Didn't I mention that there was NO shortage of trout caught that day?

While I'm certain the stripers eat quite a few trout in the particular area we fished Saturday they were NOT occupying the same water as each species is looking for different habitat during the warm weather.

These were mostly LARGE stripers that NEED cool water to survive now so their primary reason for being in that particular spot was temperature not food.

I would like to go again this saturday and see where the stripers go on two generators; as on one generator and at low flow they were not in the trout waters as we would have easily seen them. I'm certain however that any trout that traveled through the holding lie would be taking a big risk.

While living in Maine for 25 years I caught tens of thousands of stripers on fly tackle; easy 100 fish days on sea run fish in the Kennebec River with triple hook-ups in my boat all day long.

These fish ought to be catchable HERE on fly tackle under the correct conditions like two generators; they more aggressive and feed better on moving water and are a bit less fussy as they must make a faster decision to take the fly.

Once I crack the code on them HERE and reliably hook them you will all want to catch them as a GAMEFISH.

STRIPERS ON THE FLY IN A RIVER IS THE MOST FUN YOU CAN HAVE WITH YOUR CLOTHES ON, (though I never tried it naked just for the record). Shawn would like object to me fishing naked anyway and I hate to get snagged by a 4/0 hook in the wrong place.

STAY TUNED.

David Knapp
08-16-2012, 12:04 PM
These were mostly LARGE stripers that NEED cool water to survive now so their primary reason for being in that particular spot was temperature not food.



Corbo, I would respectfully disagree......partly... :biggrin:

Having seen monster stripers busting trout in the riffles during a pulse of generation on some of our fine tailwaters, I know that they do feed heavily on the trout. In fact, the trout are the main forage species for the stripers while they are in the tailwaters. On low water you will definitely find them in different water than most of the trout but as soon as the current quickens, they are out hunting and can eat a lot of trout. So, yes, they do move up for the cool water, but they also have to eat and those big guys eat a lot.

I do love catching stripers on the fly, but I just hate to see them in the trout waters...

Flat Fly n
08-16-2012, 01:52 PM
Corbo.
You have a LOT to learn about Southern stripers! They are not there because of the cooler water. They are all over in Melton Hill lake and below the Melton Hill dam and resultant Watts Bar lake. They are in the TN river system as well, including Loudon and below the dam as well. Those are not cold water fisheries. They are there for one reason only, to feed.

Schoolies in the Kennebeck are one thing. Same schoolies I caught around Portland for years. Not much to them. That is a 20# plus fish there in the photo and is not there for sculpins or cool water.

Grannyknot
08-16-2012, 03:03 PM
This has been an interesting topic. I'm kind of suprised we haven't discussed this before considering I remember stripers near the jail as far back as the mid 90s. I was told that populations are so high in the clinch because a lot of fish escape from eagle bend fish hatchery....If this is true, how in the world does that happen? Same guy told me that stripers have never intentionally been stocked in Melton Hill. Yet, TWRA has established a 2 fish limit, as well as a slot for them in Melton Hill. Basically an invasive species that gets special regulations if all that is true. I guess the same can be said about the wild hogs in the mountains.

I don't know about grilling them, but if anyone can find some private property on the river to do this, i'll bring 2 large propane burners, pans, & oil.

Corbo
08-17-2012, 08:17 PM
Flat Fly In

Not to be argumentative or anything BUT.... I beg to differ on the COLD water analysis; none of these fish was less than 30 inches and most much larger.

Were we to go to Cherokee or anywhere else to fish large stripers NOW in east TN we would find them in COLD water as these large fish cannot tolerate warm water at their given size.

The large Stripers being caught in the lakes NOW are deep in cold water and most people fail to realize that they will likely die and sink after release NOW.

Smaller stripers and hybrids can tolerate the warm water better than these monsters.

That said I would agree that on generating flows these particular fish likely go on the prowl for trout. Large stripers prefer feeding on moving water when they can get it. In the lakes here Striper fishing is a whole different game as I'm am accustomed to either fishing them in a moving river OR on a tide change; preferably the "out going" tide.

While Maine HAD zillions of Schoolies there were plenty of 28 inch plus fish to be caught; the ticket to catching them in the river was always moving water and structure.

I have seen a few You Tube videos of guys catching huge stripers on the watauga river just up from Boone. It looked like a generating flow.

What we all need to do is position ourselves in boats on the generating flow on the Clinch; observe the feeding zone and have a good time catching these beasts!

Been too busy and tired all week to tie on 4/0 hooks but perhaps tomorrow and then I need a new battery for my boat so perhaps next weekend I will catch some.

waterwolf
08-17-2012, 11:18 PM
Corbo

The dynamics in Cherokee Lake and the Clinch below Norris are not even remotely comparable. Cherokee is a typical reservoir by all measures. The Clinch below norris which ultimately forms Melton Hill lake is entirely different. One dip into Melton Hill lake right now would bring the obvious counter answer to your views. The cold water discharged from Norris Dam maintains its temperatures well down stream of Bull run steam plant. The stripers in Melton Hill lake are not moving to see cold water and thus moving up stream, they live in cold water year round, and only migrate to the steam plant for warm water in the winter, which is false as well. They are actually moving to pursue food (shad) which seek out the warm water discharge from Bull Run.

The Stripers in the Clinch and Melton Hill are not stocked, they are brood fish which were dumped in and have survived 100% on trout above Clinton, and on shad primarily below Clinton. The population is relatively small and virtually are very large fish.

You are also wrong about the release survival rates of stripers in the lakes now. If a fish is properly handled then survival rates are extremely high.


Another thing which is incorrect in your post is that fishing is best at periods of high flows or changing flows. Having spent a considerable time on the Clinch killing stripers I can say with confidence that the water being dead low is the absolute best time to target these fish. See the below image for evidence by the banks showing mud behind me. This fish was caught at the bottom end of Donnies at around 11 am with the water being off 11 hours, high sun, and on an 8" live rainbow. He is dead along with most of the fish that lived in that hole.

This isn't Maine, and our stripers do not act like ocean going stripers. I have fished for years below the dams, not as much as Flat Fly N, but a bunch. I have done extremely well on flies over the years normally during low water. I would fly fish on the Clinch, but my goal is eradication not sport. So I use the best method to kill the most.

Picture as promised, this fish had 100% trout in it's stomach and from my memory I believe it had 14 trout total that were fresh enough to distinguish species.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u52/limbhanger_photos/IMGP0623-1.jpg

Corbo
08-18-2012, 12:41 PM
I would imagine fish a live rainbow would work under any flow.

waterwolf
08-18-2012, 05:54 PM
I would imagine fish a live rainbow would work under any flow.

:confused:"......

Flat Fly n
08-18-2012, 08:03 PM
#1 Striper fly for years for me. Wonder what this fly looks like?

It's a six layer salad or my version of the Electric Chicken

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee78/tnflyfish/e2de5d16.jpg

"Only caught in current". BTW 10-15 feet max. Best day we ever had was 26 in the boat, NO CURRENT, 90 degrees outside temp on an afternoon in the summer.
5-6# schoolie

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee78/tnflyfish/IMGP1468.jpg


Dean with a 29#
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee78/tnflyfish/IMG_1337-1.jpg


22#
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee78/tnflyfish/IMGP0394-1.jpg

18# Do a close up on the fly. They LOVE rainbows!
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee78/tnflyfish/IMGP0392-1.jpg

waterwolf
08-18-2012, 10:07 PM
I was hoping you would post some pics. If anyone knows how to catch stripers on a fly in East TN it is you and that trash bird who sometimes stops in here.

You both deserve credit for doing something consistently that so many think is impossible.

Corbo
08-19-2012, 09:15 AM
Flat fly

Like your fly

Flat Fly n
08-19-2012, 11:13 AM
I was hoping you would post some pics. If anyone knows how to catch stripers on a fly in East TN it is you and that trash bird who sometimes stops in here.

You both deserve credit for doing something consistently that so many think is impossible.

Seagull stuck the needle in my arm and addicted me!!!! Hard not to be good when you hang out with the best!

We all have to get TWRA on our side with this or we can carp about it for years until the trout fishing goes down and all the work done to get slots/regs on the Clinch or surrounding tailwaters was for squat! i say get off this site and write your TWRA officials and ask for help on this problem. Seems to me the officials of Anderson Co. would get involved because to lose the trout is to lose the extra revenue pumped into the county from guys coming into fish, eat , and sleep in Anderson Co..

Mike_Anderson
08-22-2012, 06:23 PM
Soo,, Striper are new to our Tailwaters?? I remember some absolutely banner Trout years on many of our tailwaters (with special emphasis on the Cumberland river in KY). The TN state record Striper came from the lake below Wolf Creek dam and I can tell you with authority that large schools of Striper have been moving though that river system all the way to the Dam for many, many, years. Were they just dieting back then?? Why you guys would kill such a hard fighting and wonderful sport fish because you think they are responsible for a declining fishery is beyond me. It reminds me of the Salem witch hunts. The entity's that are controlling the water through our dams, and the construction projects (Caney and Cumby) or lack of construction projects (Emory River) is what's doing the most damage to our MANY Fishery's health. Where's the outrage over that??

Before you keep promoting the unethical practices and thinking you're making a change,, (hey they only stocked 400,000 Striper in many of the lakes in tn in 2011) you should consider that there are alot of Striper and wanna be Striper fishermen out there. So don't be surprised when they take the same attitude towards trout as you do with Striper.

Yes, I've caught my share of Trout and trophy Striper on the fly and I can certainly speak on the subject with plenty of experience to backe it up.

waterwolf
08-22-2012, 07:01 PM
Mike comparing the clinch with the Cumberland or the Caney is apples and oranges.

The Cumberland is vastly longer and larger than the Clinch and so is the Caney.

The Clinch being only 13 miles long makes it a much easier place for stripers to target trout.

Also the Cumberland and Caney both support large shad populations which take the pressure off the trout. The Clinch has no shad population at all, and the stripers feed 100% on trout.

Basically your opinion would be great if the river systems were even comparable.

As many like me have said over and over, we like stripers, but stripers who live where their only food source is a game fish and an expensive one at that, they have to go.

I would love to hear what is unethical about killing and eating a legally caught legal limit of fish. Calling that unethical is quite a stretch.

Mike_Anderson
08-22-2012, 08:29 PM
My post was directed at the notion that the two can't co exist. They have been for many years. It just so happens that trout are fragile little gems that don't tolerate water quality issues, Striper simply don't have that problem. The biggest hit to our Trout stocking this year happened at the DH hatchery. I haven't heard much complaining about that.

I guess I've just heard so many excuses for our "artificial" Trout fisheries suffering (Otters, Osprey, Heron, too much water, too little water, too low DO, Didymo, silt, too warm water, too cold water, too drastic temp change, striper, grout, understocking, bait dunkers, foul hooking, bucket brigades, yada yada. ) that I've become jaded. I honestly think if you could go to any tailwater and catch 5 20"ers every trip people would still complain. Again, this isn't meant to be inflammatory.

Flat Fly n
08-22-2012, 10:13 PM
Mike,
Actually it's the dang otters stirring up the didymo AND the silt, along with the nasty baitfishing bank fishermen peeing in the river causing temp changes!

BTW....just where are those five 20" trout hanging out?

waterwolf
08-22-2012, 10:15 PM
My post was directed at the notion that the two can't co exist. They have been for many years. It just so happens that trout are fragile little gems that don't tolerate water quality issues, Striper simply don't have that problem. The biggest hit to our Trout stocking this year happened at the DH hatchery. I haven't heard much complaining about that.

I guess I've just heard so many excuses for our "artificial" Trout fisheries suffering (Otters, Osprey, Heron, too much water, too little water, too low DO, Didymo, silt, too warm water, too cold water, too drastic temp change, striper, grout, understocking, bait dunkers, foul hooking, bucket brigades, yada yada. ) that I've become jaded. I honestly think if you could go to any tailwater and catch 5 20"ers every trip people would still complain. Again, this isn't meant to be inflammatory.

In the Clinch the two can't coexist, that is a fact. Again, since you missed it earlier, there is NOTHING but trout for food for them in the Clinch, period. I have cleaned about 70 stripers over the past 3 years and the least amount of trout in one's stomach was 9.

It is naive to think they have no impact on the fishery, especially when combined with a very liberal 7 fish limit for humans with zero enforcement.

As long as a resource has the potential that the Clinch does and it is not being fully realized then there is reason to want the best out of what we have in this state. Settling for mediocre is unacceptable, especially when small tweaks could result in major beneficial impacts.

Again stripers are fine in areas where the food source keeps their sights off of the gamefish community. However, in areas where gamefish are the only prey base, then they must die, and I personally will continue to slaughter each one which I can get my hands on, until they exist no more in the Clinch.

MadisonBoats
08-23-2012, 06:04 AM
In the Clinch the two can't coexist, that is a fact. Again, since you missed it earlier, there is NOTHING but trout for food for them in the Clinch, period. I have cleaned about 70 stripers over the past 3 years and the least amount of trout in one's stomach was 9.

It is naive to think they have no impact on the fishery, especially when combined with a very liberal 7 fish limit for humans with zero enforcement.

As long as a resource has the potential that the Clinch does and it is not being fully realized then there is reason to want the best out of what we have in this state. Settling for mediocre is unacceptable, especially when small tweaks could result in major beneficial impacts.

Again stripers are fine in areas where the food source keeps their sights off of the gamefish community. However, in areas where gamefish are the only prey base, then they must die, and I personally will continue to slaughter each one which I can get my hands on, until they exist no more in the Clinch.

Agreed! Unfortunately; I think the striper populations and heavy presence on the upper Clinch this year have really depleted the trout stock in certain areas. The effects will be noticeable for years to come.

Mike_Anderson
08-23-2012, 08:00 AM
To each his own. Carry on with your witch hunt. I'll let you in on a little secret though. It's posts like these that are showing up all around the web that are going to hurt the Clinch Trout more then the Striper. A below average striper fisherman can catch 20 or 30 Trout to your one striper and I know they are watching these posts. Just something to think about.

Bran
08-23-2012, 08:52 AM
There are 2 lakes, Buggs Island Reservoir VA and Santee Cooper SC, that are able to contain a self sustained population of land locked Stripers. One of the main criteria that have to be met are for there to be a continuous flow of river to allow 48 hours for the roe to free float to arrive at the static water before hatching. I live on Buggs Island and nearby we have the Vic Thomas hatchery where they supply the majority of stocker Stripers to the rest of the U.S. They exchange these with other states for various other species to stock here in VA. They don't put any Stipers back in here.
As far as temp, they like colder water, but, the surface temp now is at 76 F and they crash the points for Threadfin Shad in the evenings so they tolerate warmer water just fine.

No Hackle
08-23-2012, 10:10 AM
There are 2 lakes, Buggs Island Reservoir VA and Santee Cooper SC, that are able to contain a self sustained population of land locked Stripers. One of the main criteria that have to be met are for there to be a continuous flow of river to allow 48 hours for the roe to free float to arrive at the static water before hatching. I live on Buggs Island and nearby we have the Vic Thomas hatchery where they supply the majority of stocker Stripers to the rest of the U.S. They exchange these with other states for various other species to stock here in VA. They don't put any Stipers back in here.
As far as temp, they like colder water, but, the surface temp now is at 76 F and they crash the points for Threadfin Shad in the evenings so they tolerate warmer water just fine.
I've read reports that striper will follow bait anywhere. Even when the bait goes into level of water that does not have enough oxygen for their survival. The bait will stay in this level not to get eatin and in turn die from lack of oxygen. The stripers will follow suit with their focus on eating them and in turn die also. Their focus is one thing, eating. Trout have much more protein.I believe where oyu have trout and shad the striper will pick the trout everytime.
I have a friend who striper fishes. He does great with shad patterns @ Ft.Loudon Dam but when he fishes Tellico below the dam and down stream he only does well on rainbow lures especially the larger fish.I think the proof is in the pudding.
Lynn

Mike_Anderson
08-23-2012, 11:02 AM
I've read reports that striper will follow bait anywhere.

This is fact. So does that mean the Striper follow large schools of Trout from MH up into the Clinch?


Trout have much more protein.I believe where oyu have trout and shad the striper will pick the trout everytime.

A good analogy to this would be next time your starving give a marathon runner a prime rib and at the some time give 10,000 school kids a hamburger. Now try to catch the runner for your steak dinner. Bet you end up eating a hamburger.

I've spent the last 12 years studying and learning the habits of these fish. That they encounter Trout is purely coincidental. They are going through the same migration movements that nature imprinted on them from the beginning. I understand the concern but again you have to consider that these fish have proven to co exist in other tailwaters where Trout thrived (again I use Cumby as a prime example). There are as many who enjoy fishing for Striper as there are people who enjoy Trout fishing. Both are stocked. There has to be a happy median. Advocating slaughtering of any non invasive fish so that we might enjoy "sportfishing" for another is irresponsible at best, [in my opinion].

No Hackle
08-23-2012, 12:57 PM
This is fact. So does that mean the Striper follow large schools of Trout from MH up into the Clinch?


A good analogy to this would be next time your starving give a marathon runner a prime rib and at the some time give 10,000 school kids a hamburger. Now try to catch the runner for your steak dinner. Bet you end up eating a hamburger.

I've spent the last 12 years studying and learning the habits of these fish. That they encounter Trout is purely coincidental. They are going through the same migration movements that nature imprinted on them from the beginning. I understand the concern but again you have to consider that these fish have proven to co exist in other tailwaters where Trout thrived (again I use Cumby as a prime example). There are as many who enjoy fishing for Striper as there are people who enjoy Trout fishing. Both are stocked. There has to be a happy median. Advocating slaughtering of any non invasive fish so that we might enjoy "sportfishing" for another is irresponsible at best.
Can you or anyone tell me why a trout pattern works better than a shad one on striper where they both exist as food for stripers. Hey i fish for stripers also. They're great game fish. I'm just pointing out the reports that I have read and results of my friends fishing.Whether their meeting is coincidental or not. Then why have they not left that section of the Clinch. I believe that the food source is there. Why dont they just drop back down and eat all those shad.
Lynn

Mike_Anderson
08-23-2012, 01:14 PM
Color has very little to do with to lure selection. It's action and size is what you should be using to dictate fly/lure choice. The Cumberland River Striper are used to eating Skipjack and Shad and when available Trout.

Should we also start slitting open the bellies of the big Clinch Browns? What exactly do you think they are eating?? Fingerling on up to stocker sized Trout perhaps... Caught my largest Caney Fork Brown on a Brown Trout wiggle minnow. FWIW, I didn't cut it's belly open and spill out all the Trout it had eaten.


I've done my best to speak in a non confrontational manner on this forum. For some reason my posts are getting edited in a manor that is leading me to believe my "opinion" is not inline with those who own and operate this forum. With that I'll refrain from further comment out of respect.

Paula Begley
08-23-2012, 01:40 PM
Mike, I don't want anyone to stay out of the conversation. By the same token, I'd like for this not to turn into WWIII here. I've edited your posts, as well as those of others, to remove flat-out in-your-face challenges or to add in language that eliminates stating opinions as fact.

Please, I beseech you all, keep this civil. You know, it's not hard. Please, everyone, read this site rule:

6. Please reread your posts before you post them.

This should go without saying, but you might be surprised. Seriously, read your post before you post it. Think about how it reads to others, and whether it's relevant to the topic. Also, it is not cool to be intentionally offensive. Don't do it. It's also not cool to be sarcastic, "joke around" or any other form of language in order to provoke someone. Don't do it.

If you feel you are provoked, DO NOT respond. This will make you equally wrong. Instead, contact the administrator of the board or report the post via the "report post" button.

Thank you.

Paula

Bran
08-23-2012, 03:16 PM
I've read reports that striper will follow bait anywhere. Even when the bait goes into level of water that does not have enough oxygen for their survival. The bait will stay in this level not to get eatin and in turn die from lack of oxygen. The stripers will follow suit with their focus on eating them and in turn die also. Their focus is one thing, eating. Trout have much more protein.I believe where oyu have trout and shad the striper will pick the trout everytime.
I have a friend who striper fishes. He does great with shad patterns @ Ft.Loudon Dam but when he fishes Tellico below the dam and down stream he only does well on rainbow lures especially the larger fish.I think the proof is in the pudding.
Lynn

No Hackle, they may very well do that in places but you would think if that happened here in my home lake you would have dead Striper turning up commonly in the areas that these fish run shallow after the shad every evening. It's not the case, at least not here. You rarely see a dead Striper roll up, but commonly see catfish floating up. Not sure why but I figured they must tolerate the low O2 and hot water fairly well. It would be interesting to know for sure but I suppose each body of water holds it's own unique set of criteria and so the fish may react a little differently.

No Hackle
08-23-2012, 03:28 PM
No Hackle, they may very well do that in places but you would think if that happened here in my home lake you would have dead Striper turning up commonly in the areas that these fish run shallow after the shad every evening. It's not the case, at least not here. You rarely see a dead Striper roll up, but commonly see catfish floating up. Not sure why but I figured they must tolerate the low O2 and hot water fairly well. It would be interesting to know for sure but I suppose each body of water holds it's own unique set of criteria and so the fish may react a little differently.
I was just sharing what I had read before. I dont know if its true or not. Just thought I would try to give us something more to think about. Do I
believe everything I read.No. I just know I'm interested in other peoples opinions. Whether I agree or not. There is always room to learn. I know every body of water is different. That's why we fish. If it was all the same it would be a fishermans nightmare.
Thats whats great about this forum. We can learn from differant people from different parts of the country.
I've caught lots of fish and none of them were the same. Now thats Heaven.
Lynn

waterwolf
08-23-2012, 06:11 PM
This is fact. So does that mean the Striper follow large schools of Trout from MH up into the Clinch?


A good analogy to this would be next time your starving give a marathon runner a prime rib and at the some time give 10,000 school kids a hamburger. Now try to catch the runner for your steak dinner. Bet you end up eating a hamburger.

I've spent the last 12 years studying and learning the habits of these fish. That they encounter Trout is purely coincidental. They are going through the same migration movements that nature imprinted on them from the beginning. I understand the concern but again you have to consider that these fish have proven to co exist in other tailwaters where Trout thrived (again I use Cumby as a prime example). There are as many who enjoy fishing for Striper as there are people who enjoy Trout fishing. Both are stocked. There has to be a happy median. Advocating slaughtering of any non invasive fish so that we might enjoy "sportfishing" for another is irresponsible at best, [in my opinion].
Mike, again I will try and inform you that there is no comparison between the rivers you frequent and the Clinch. Apples and oranges.

Your rivers are long diverse rivers , the clinch is not either.
Your rivers have gazillions of shad to offer alternate food sources, the Clinch has only trout.
Your rivers are stocked with stripers or the lakes downstream are, the Clinch is not nor is Melton Hill.


I think the lack of understanding lies in the lack of knowledge you possess with regards to the Clinch. Don't take that as a shot, it is not meant that way, I state that because it would be easy to assume the Clinch is similar to other rivers where the two species coexist. Simply stated the two cannot because of he lack of forage.

I wish things were different as I am almost exclusively catch and release except for a few spring crappie and Clinch stripers. I love the species, but hate their presence in 13 select miles of river. Everywhere they are fine and should be released .

Bran
08-23-2012, 09:33 PM
Lynn,
This is the one bad thing about a forum, just like an email, you can't hear my tone so I think I sounded rude or condescending to you. Nothing could be further from the truth. I was just throwing it out that I don't see any dead but it certainly could be true what you read. I'm an electrical engineer, fishing is just my hobby, I wouldn't try to assert that I know anything more than you. To the contrary I can probably learn a lot from you. I'm definitely not arguing, just curious and trying to fuel the conversation. That's all. Please accept my apology if I came across that way, I'm one of those people that doesn't meet a stranger and tries not to upset anyone. Cheers!!

MadisonBoats
08-24-2012, 07:44 AM
Mr. Anderson,
I respect your point of view and the fact you took the time to explain your viewpoint. I appreciate your input about striper and the information about other rivers in TN that have striper. However; I agree with Waterwolf in discerning the Clinch tailwater as a unique, cold-water, river. I believe there are differences in the characteristics of the Clinch River that separate it from other tailwaters in TN that contain striper. Maybe we could expand on this topic by looking at this subjectively(?) Are there differences in fishing techniques for striper on the Clinch? Is the catch-rate, size, and fishing calendar similar to other striper rivers?

I believe the increase in striper presence has been due to longer-low flow periods and water conditions that induce striper to feed/habitat in the upper tailwater. Fortunately; I believe this is cyclical and will remedy itself when the river is operated with a regular flow of CFS rates throughout the year. My only worry is that TVA's data is historical and they have changed their winter pool levels in the past decade. This will make it challenging for them to forecast Spring and Summer flows. Well; at-least until they get many years of data to increase the accuracy.

I agree that big brown trout eat trout as well. However; their physiological structure inhibits the amount of feeding they can perform. I believe the daily feeding rate of trout is about half of striper. (0.5 to 1.8% vs. 3.0-4.0% striper/ percent of body weight): suggested maintenance feeding rates for raising fish in ponds. Striper seem to have a gorging feeding behavior and can really impact the trout habitat of a short-tailwater like the Clinch River. I know very little about striper from a scientific view or as an experienced angler. Most of my opinions are based on river interactions and casual knowledge of the fish. So; I appreciate your input and respect your passion for supporting striper fishing. Also; I hope you can see that you are discussing a controversial topic on a fly fishing forum.:smile:

No Hackle
08-24-2012, 09:11 AM
Lynn,
This is the one bad thing about a forum, just like an email, you can't hear my tone so I think I sounded rude or condescending to you. Nothing could be further from the truth. I was just throwing it out that I don't see any dead but it certainly could be true what you read. I'm an electrical engineer, fishing is just my hobby, I wouldn't try to assert that I know anything more than you. To the contrary I can probably learn a lot from you. I'm definitely not arguing, just curious and trying to fuel the conversation. That's all. Please accept my apology if I came across that way, I'm one of those people that doesn't meet a stranger and tries not to upset anyone. Cheers!!
Bran you didnt come off as rude to me. I appreciate everyones opinion and respect it. I won't accept your apology because none was needed, but thank you. I do agree with you that alot of things come off the wrong way through typed messages.
As far as you lerning from me, I think we can use this forum to learn period. You can take ten fisherman to the same fish and they'll all catch it ten different ways. Thats whats great about our sport.
Lynn

NDuncan
08-24-2012, 10:25 AM
Semi on topic:

How long of a river do stripers need to reproduce? I feel like when I was in Texas someone told me it was like 50 or 100 river miles of free flowing river. Maybe someone with more experience and knowledge about this species can chime in.

Just hungry for knowledge here, I have always wanted to try fly fishing for striper but really haven't known where to start

Corbo
08-25-2012, 11:30 AM
Any gamefish is a terrible thing to waste... this includes trout eating stripers.

Wish I had not started this thread.

Bran
08-25-2012, 12:08 PM
It's my understanding from the game biologists here that it's 48 hours of free floating in moving water to hatch the eggs. That would be different lengths of river for every system because of grade and volume affecting current I would think. Here they have about 27 or 28 miles on one river and a little more on the other and both rivers produce every year. The too we're in the piedmont and both rivers are tail waters so the COE and the VGDIF work together to regulate water flow for the stripers to be able to swim up to a point where they have enough free run river to support hatching the roe.
When we catch them in April on the way up they're just squirting eggs, looks like they're about to pop.