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Don Kirk
11-27-2012, 10:58 PM
Things are way too quiet around here. Surely someone has something controversial to assail the board. Feeling a lot better here—frisky in fact. It’s been months since I said anything that got me into trouble and almost four years since the last time I was arrested for anything of consequence. May be this will do it…

If you are fishing in the park and are padded down by a ranger who finds what he deems to be --- ah yes--- a Yallarhammar fly in your vest. My questions are:

a. Does the ranger have the right to seize you and your fly, or just your fly?
b. If he confiscates said alleged Yallarhammar, does he have to give you a receipt for your property?
c. Once confiscated, what obligations does the NPS have to prove that the fly is indeed one constructed of yellow-shafted woodpecker plums?
d. If they must make such a scientific determination, who does it and how long does the NPS have to keep you fly to complete this task.
e. If rangers can cherry pick your fly box, what is to stop them from taking everything to be analyzed?
f. Is it advisable to ask these questions?

Bran
11-27-2012, 11:31 PM
I went, I posted. 224 views, not a single reply. I musta called somebody a bad name.

Oldman
11-28-2012, 07:45 AM
All fly fishing forumns are stagniant right now. Its like winter set in early. Expect spring fever early too. I think everyone stayed home to save thier money to shop with the wife on Black Friday and Cyber Monday. Also, expect a baby boom in nine months.

duckypaddler
11-28-2012, 08:50 AM
Things are way too quiet around here. Surely someone has something controversial to assail the board. Feeling a lot better here—frisky in fact. It’s been months since I said anything that got me into trouble and almost four years since the last time I was arrested for anything of consequence. May be this will do it…

If you are fishing in the park and are padded down by a ranger who finds what he deems to be --- ah yes--- a Yallarhammar fly in your vest. My questions are:

a. Does the ranger have the right to seize you and your fly, or just your fly?
b. If he confiscates said alleged Yallarhammar, does he have to give you a receipt for your property?
c. Once confiscated, what obligations does the NPS have to prove that the fly is indeed one constructed of yellow-shafted woodpecker plums?
d. If they must make such a scientific determination, who does it and how long does the NPS have to keep you fly to complete this task.
e. If rangers can cherry pick your fly box, what is to stop them from taking everything to be analyzed?
f. Is it advisable to ask these questions?


When we do the acid deposition samples we have to keep the radio on. Since hearing that under an ounce of weed will only get you a ticket, and court appearance without an arrest, I doubt you would get thrown in the pokey for the yellowhammer:rolleyes:

b - I think your ticket telling you court date serves as receipt

c - With the biodiversity team at the roaring fork, they actually might be able to figure that one out (after intense study)

d - I would guess if it turned out to be a legal one, your grandkids might get it back in 50 years or so

e - Hopefully DW doesn't fish

f - No - please delete ASAP - OOh no it's too late


And the rangers are bad enough to deal with - but PLEASE Don - Don't get Paula involved - She's the real Yellowhammer (well maybe redish yellow:biggrin:):eek:

Grannyknot
11-28-2012, 11:14 AM
I'll admit...I've been slackin' lately.
Been fishing a few times, and even a couple of trips that involved camping in the backcountry.
Just haven't really had the time to sit down, upload photos, and write anything worth reading.

AL trout bum
11-28-2012, 02:53 PM
I'll admit...I've been slackin' lately.
Been fishing a few times, and even a couple of trips that involved camping in the backcountry.
Just haven't really had the time to sit down, upload photos, and write anything worth reading.

Most people just look at the photos anyways! :biggrin:

Rob Johnson
12-02-2012, 11:45 PM
I have fake yellowhammers in my vest but how do you fish them? They don't float well and don't sink quickly. Mr. Kirk, are you feeling better or still on the meds?;) No rangers ever check my tags, little less my flies and I see folks fishing with live bait anywhere I go in the GSMNP. If the cops are checking you out, you must have a heck of a reputation. Don, the magazine's looking good. thanks ROB

Rog 1
12-03-2012, 10:47 AM
Once had a local fisherman give me a yallerhammer over on Roaring Fork....said that was the only fly he used....he told me to cast the fly into the white water at the head of the pool and hold on.

Byron Begley
12-03-2012, 03:13 PM
Eddy George gave me some real Yellow Hammers at a TU meeting about 15 years ago or longer. Jim was sitting next to me. The three of us looked them over, commented about how well they were tied and I stuck them in my pocket and thanked Eddy. We talked about the fact that they were tied using flicker feathers, not a substitute. Jim laughed when I asked if I could get into trouble in the Park with those flies. He didn't say anything, he just laughed.

Jim was a Federal Judge and a friend of mine who has passed away. Those flies are still in one of my fly boxes. I never used them.

Byron

fourx
12-05-2012, 01:59 PM
I was walking on my farm the other day, when I came upon a feather...
http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z468/fmf777/Snapbucket/9A478CEE.jpg

4X

AL trout bum
12-05-2012, 06:11 PM
To echo someone else's question, how do you fish these? I have a couple I bought at LRO and really wasn't sure if they are supposed to be dries or wet flies?

duckypaddler
12-05-2012, 08:36 PM
To echo someone else's question, how do you fish these? I have a couple I bought at LRO and really wasn't sure if they are supposed to be dries or wet flies?

You can make them be whatever you want. I never had much luck with the dry fly version. Never liked the fakes from LRO, but Hugh Hartsell had some died crow feathers that looked as good as you can get legally. If you look at Don's first or 2nd issue of his online magazine there was an article and tying instructions. I fish them as a nymph from June through August whenever you see bees around:smile:

AL trout bum
12-06-2012, 02:33 PM
Cool, thanks.

D-Drake
12-07-2012, 02:03 PM
To echo someone else's question, how do you fish these? I have a couple I bought at LRO and really wasn't sure if they are supposed to be dries or wet flies?

AL Trout Bum, the Yellarhammers we sell are wet flies. The feathers, whether they are the real thing or dove, crow etc are too soft of feathers to float a dry. The dry fly versions of the Yellarhammer are usually tied with a dyed dry fly hackle.

The Yellarhammer flies that Rob Fightmaster ties for us are done from dyed dove feathers. They are prettier than the commercially tied ones.

Daniel

Grannyknot
12-07-2012, 02:15 PM
......but Hugh Hartsell had some died crow feathers that looked as good as you can get legally....

I thought Hugh tied these with Starling feathers?
He did a tying demo one day at the shop where he gave a quick tutorial on how to dye these.

duckypaddler
12-07-2012, 09:43 PM
I thought Hugh tied these with Starling feathers?
He did a tying demo one day at the shop where he gave a quick tutorial on how to dye these.

No your right, my bad:redface: Still much better than the comm version. I don't think I saw the local version at LRO so they may be much better.

Rob Johnson
12-07-2012, 11:36 PM
The oldtimer that tied these for me did not explain but they have a pretty stiff hackle and tail. The palmer style body wrap is clipped fairly tight but it is labeled "yellahammer" and all the other flies in this box are certainly dry flies.I have seen the wet flies called Yellahammer but was wondering if anyone else knew of the Yellahammer being fished as a dry fly. No wing and it is hard to float. Maybe it is a wet fly. :confused:

Don Kirk
12-09-2012, 10:06 AM
I just completed a book titled Flies and Fly Patterns of the Great Smoky Mountains for Stackpole Books that will be published in 2013. It covers about 60,000 words and is a pretty detailed work on a fairly narrow subject. An entire chapter is devoted to the Yallarhammar fly. I included everything I could dig up about the fly. Much of the tidbits of information are contradictory, but I included them any way.

After making a fairly comprehensive study of the pattern, my theory is that the Yallarhammar was tied as a wet fly, more than likely with a peacock herl body as opposed to a willy nilly, palmer hackled sprig. This is not say that the two styles did not evolve at the same time. However, if you look at the flies used in the waters of GSMNP between 1840 and 1900, you cannot help but see that fly patterns with long bodies were most prevalent. I am strongly of the opinion that the earliest fly tyers of the region drew inspiration from the flies they saw used rather than setting out on creative courses. It’s just my opinion.

Rob Johnson
12-11-2012, 12:11 AM
Don Kirk, I have about gone broke buying your books. Impecunious as I am and not really wanting to wait until next year, can you just tell me if you know of the Yellowhammer being tied as a dry fly? Clipped palmered body and stiff hackle? Your help would be much appreciated. ROB

duckypaddler
12-11-2012, 08:53 AM
Don Kirk, I have about gone broke buying your books. Impecunious as I am and not really wanting to wait until next year, can you just tell me if you know of the Yellowhammer being tied as a dry fly? Clipped palmered body and stiff hackle? Your help would be much appreciated. ROB

Just an amateur answer here. But when I first tried to tie the fly, I had no instruction, just went off what I saw. I forgot to lead wrap the body before the peacock hurl, and what I ended up with was a dry fly (well I first intended it to be a dropper, but it wouldn't sink) It had no other hackle, which contradicts what many more educated people seem to be saying, but that's my story, and I'm sticking to it:smile:

If you find Don's recipes, I'm pretty sure he had a dry recipe in that first or second installment of his online magazine

Rob Johnson
12-12-2012, 01:13 AM
I was thinking that if it was a floater that anyone used, I might try tying some parachutes. Doesn't seem to be getting a lot of votes as a dry. Thank you for your response Mr. Paddler. You re right (as usual) about the magazine article. Don K. started this thread and I was just trying to poke him some to finish it with some useful information. Fishin is slow around here and I have read all his books. :smile:

Don Kirk
12-13-2012, 07:56 AM
This is just a WAG (wild *** guess) on my part, but the Yallarhammars we used to buy and fish in the late 1960s and 1970s had the plump peacock herl wrapped bodies and rather short hackled collars were fished wet. Even then you could get them tied weighted or not weighted, with the latter being what the old tyers said that they personally preferred. We fished them wet in tandem, usually with a Tellico Nymph. The catch rate was about 50/50.

The full palmer patterns appear to me to suited for fishing on top or subsurface. Most of the ones I have seen are tied using long wing splits that many tyers back then simply discarded. Kirk Jenkins and Ernest Ramsey both told me you got less than a half dozen “decent” Yallarhammars from a single wing. I recall Kirk having only the peacock herl versions, while Ramsey had the those and full palmered version. Kirk was more of an artist at the vise, while Ramsey tied and sold flies as sideline to his cockfighting business.

Which is older I do not know.

I do believe that the old tyers understood what made a dry fly pattern set atop the water—fine neck hackles and a stiff tail—which clearly is not what you get from a soft hackle Yallarhammar. By the way, I am very flattered that so many of you note having read my books. Thank you.