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Hoosier
11-28-2012, 05:01 PM
Just curious if anyone has tried to make a custom map from either an NPS trail map or maybe one of JoeFred's fishing maps through GE and then downloaded it into a GPS unit. If so, what did you think of the results of meshing the two onto the GPS unit? I am just starting to learn how to do this and would love to look at trying it with one of these resources.

duckypaddler
11-28-2012, 05:45 PM
after seeing a post on Go Smokies, and the fact that I just recently had to replace my gps and was reading the manual led me to give it a shot. I first tried to copy the Sierra Club 70's map off Tom Dunigan's site (one that has most smokies manways on it), and while I succeeded in making a .kml file, the resolution of the photo was so big that it didn't work. I then tried to make a small one which was a snippet of the 36 map in upper raven fork hoping to find reminants of the old trail leading up middle fork of three forks to Dashoga. Should be remains of a cabin up there, and I have never heard of anyone going there in the last 30+ years. It was low resolution, but it still didn't work. I usually somewhat tech savy, but I've haven't figured this out yet.:frown: I wish (hint hint Joe Fred, or Mr Kirk) someone would have something out that we could load as I'd be willing to pay and save the hassle of the learning curve. If anyone has ones to share, I'd be happy to host the file if you have no way to share it with others:smile:

Good Luck, and someone in thier 20's or younger would most likely laugh at me since it really doesn't look that hard.
http://gosmokies.knoxnews.com/profiles/blogs/put-the-1931-map-on-your-hiking-gps

Hope that helps,

James

Don Kirk
11-29-2012, 09:59 AM
We're about two projects away from the maps like you are talking about. I just completed a book on Smoky flies and fly patterns for Stackpole, and one more book to do on N. Ga/NC for Wilderness Adventure Press. The latter has asked me to do a map book, but I do not believe print for maps is a good long term approach.

This week I received books by Steve Moore and Davis Ellzey. Moore does guide books on fishing streams in VA and MD. His four books are map/GPS heavy. Ellzey does guide books to the river in TX--again all three books are map/GPS heavy. In terms of an entertaining read they are light, but these books are chock full of hard info. There is certainly a trend here.

I believe that in long run, which is not too much in the future, the maps will be hosted free by people such as us at Southern Trout Magazine. The maps will be free because they will drive traffic to web sites, which is key to making money. Its still a bit in the future, but it will happen sooner than your think. Paper, ink and postage are going the way of the buggy whip.

Hoosier
11-29-2012, 04:05 PM
Thanks for the info. I agree I would be willing to put up something for quality resolution downloads, but I will mess with it a bit over the holidays and let you know how it goes.

JoeFred
12-02-2012, 08:10 AM
Just curious if anyone has tried to make a custom map from either an NPS trail map or maybe one of JoeFred's fishing maps...

Hoosier, thanks for the mention. Good topic. After looking into the options, I decided that since my maps are uniquely rich in content (using the original USGS quadrangle topo backgrounds) – as opposed to most GPS apps – to create PDF downloads for use of Acrobat Reader. Reader is now available from Adobe for Apple mobile devices, as well as Android. One of the downloads will be that of all 44 park maps plus interactive indexes. As with our printed ones, the stream maps will have latitude-longitude coordinates in the margins and full UTM grid. In order for the file size of the application to be reasonable for downloading, the backgrounds will have to be reduced to screen resolution. However, all the overlays (roads, trails, color-coded streams, etc.) will be vectorized, permitting liberal zooming. I hope to announce the availabilty of the product in about a week.

flyman
12-04-2012, 10:52 PM
I'm not a trained cartographer or anything, but I can draw some pretty good old school type maps. All you need is some scratch paper and some colored felt tip pins. Here is an example of one of my maps to my favorite fishing stream:biggrin:
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i16/nepal_flyfishing_guru/LinvilleGorge.jpg

NDuncan
12-05-2012, 10:37 AM
I use Avenza PDF maps for the iphone. I think it is $10 and you can download any USGS quad for the entire US for free. The iphone gps receiver works well enough in the park that I have been able to track myself everywhere I have been this year (regardless of if I have cellular service (different antenna) and had a fix on my location. Sometimes it takes a while but it works. If you have a KML file for that quad, you can import it/overlay it. It also allows you to add your own Geotagged photos to your quads and the way the quads are processed, each only takes up about 20 MB (trivial on an iphone)

duckypaddler
12-05-2012, 08:08 PM
I'm not a trained cartographer or anything, but I can draw some pretty good old school type maps. All you need is some scratch paper and some colored felt tip pins. Here is an example of one of my maps to my favorite fishing stream:biggrin:
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i16/nepal_flyfishing_guru/LinvilleGorge.jpg

So it seems you must fish in Pigeon Forge:eek:.

Those aren't rescue copters, but you get extra points for the use of felt (hope you properly sanitised it so you don't spread the didymo) so I won't harrass you about that. And let me know if you are willing to teach these skills, my 3 year olds can use some more training, and it's never too early to teach good map skills:smile:

JoeFred
12-10-2012, 11:39 AM
Hmmm. flyman's is a tough act to follow.

Mac
12-11-2012, 10:40 AM
JoeFred,

Wow, Its been a little while since i last visited your website. You sure have made a lot of changes. I guess you have not been sleeping or out fishing all last year. ;)

My Xmas Stocking is getting fuller.

muskrat
12-11-2012, 06:44 PM
That's mighty kind of you Mr. JoeFred and much appreciated. Thank you

JoeFred
12-12-2012, 12:03 PM
You're welcome, muskrat.

Now back to Hoosier's original topic... GPS


...post on Go Smokies, and the fact that I just recently had to replace my gps and was reading the manual led me to give it a shot. I first tried to copy the Sierra Club 70's map off Tom Dunigan's site (one that has most smokies manways on it), and while I succeeded in making a .kml file, the resolution of the photo was so big that it didn't work....

... I wish (hint hint Joe Fred, or Mr Kirk) someone would have something out that we could load
James

Very interesting, James. We may be on to something here, team!:smile:
Here are two snipits that might work for you, they are of the Raven Fork Three Forks area from the Mount Guyot 7.5 min series quad at an approximate scale of 1:15,000, or about 160% that of the original.
300 pixels/inch (http://www.smokystreams.com/mbpics/thread16547_pic2.jpg)
72 pixels/inch (http://www.smokystreams.com/mbpics/thread16547_pic2.jpg)
You may need to, among other tweaks, reduce the color saturation some so the shadows are not too dark.
Good luck!
JoeFred,

Wow, Its been a little while since i last visited your website. You sure have made a lot of changes. I guess you have not been sleeping or out fishing all last year. ;)


Hey, Mac. Unfortunately I didn't get in a lot of fishing this year, but I did get to camp at both 'monts finally, and log some hiking miles in the 'Luftee, Deep Creek & Cosby Creek watersheds. I did manage to get in some sleeping. Guess much of my late 60s is centered around maps, aps and naps.:biggrin:

Brook Fan
12-12-2012, 02:46 PM
JoeFred
The website and product look great. However do not forget the importance of field trials. All work and no play keeps the Brookies away.

JoeFred
12-15-2012, 11:23 AM
Sage advice (not just the famous gear manufacturer's kind) from such a young man.Thanks, BF!

JoeFred
02-03-2013, 10:56 AM
Figured it out! I have produced some test files for Lower Forney Creek using JPGs and Google Earth (pretty cool.) However, to produce the .kmz files I have to connect to a GPS device from my computer. Malcolm Morrison, author of the blog referenced by duckypaddler, used a Garmin Oregon 400t (now discontinued). There's a refurbished one on eBay for $170.

When it comes to the handhelds, I'm prettty much "lost." So any advice will be much appreciated.

– JF

duckypaddler
02-03-2013, 07:57 PM
:eek:You don't need a gps to save it. Just save the file in Google Earth after you calibrate it and it will be a .kmz file.:smile:

As for GPS, I love the Garmin Etrex. If you need a bigger screen and want to spend more money, or have to have a touch screen, then by all means go with a fancy one. Since I lost my old etrex in the West Prong last year, I got the new Etrex 20. Has the shaded relief, and gets the russian satellites to boot. Just make sure you get one that allows to to add a micro sd card. Also I don't think the money spent for the altimeter is ever worth it. You constantly have to re-calibrate it, and the topo lines on the map are usually more accurate.:smile:

Send me or post a few of what you make, and we can try it out even if you can't YET:biggrin:
For some reason I have a calibration problem:eek:

JoeFred
02-03-2013, 11:44 PM
Well duh, JoeFred. Thanks, DP! I will post some after a bit.

Also, thanks for the GPS tips. And where 'bouts on the West Prong were you? :biggrin:

NDuncan
02-04-2013, 01:11 AM
Near the tunnel... He keeps trying to get me to find his list gear for him...

JoeFred
02-04-2013, 01:59 AM
With your headstart it looks as though I will have get an Etrex the old fashioned way.:smile: To that end, see if the following KMZ will hunt:
http://www.smokystreams.com/mbdocs/lower_forney_creek_w_flat_source_quad.kmz 3MB

2/4 UPDATE:
Here's some others:
http://www.smokystreams.com/mbdocs/forks_of_river_opaque.kmz 600KB
http://www.smokystreams.com/mbdocs/below_elkmont.kmz 600KB

Anyone is welcome to try these out on your device. If you prefer to not comment here, you may e-mail your feedback to me at address below. Thanks JF

Google Earth snipits:
http://www.smokystreams.com/mbpics/thread16547_pic2.jpg

http://www.smokystreams.com/mbpics/thread16547_pic3.jpg

http://www.smokystreams.com/mbpics/thread16547_pic4.jpg

Hoosier
02-08-2013, 05:00 PM
JoeFred

Thanks
I imported the maps into my oregon and the overlay location over the BaseCamp/Topo US maps were spot on.

Of the three maps the Elkmont map seemed to hold its resolution the best as I zoomed in but still fuzzy as I work in closer before my Topo US Maps take over as the primary view. At about where my screen allows for a 1000' feet, maybe 1200-1500' is where the resolution starts to drop the view quality. Wish I could figure that out. But regardless, these are alot better than any custom map I can come up with and any of the others I have seen.

Hope this is worthwhile feedback.

JoeFred
02-08-2013, 10:48 PM
Very worthwhile feedback, Hooiser. Thanks.

I'd like to do another Elkmont KMZ. The JPEG used was approximately 700 (horizontal) x 500 pixels (vertical) at 72 pixels/inch. Coverage: about 2 x 1.5 miles. Should I up the resolution to something like 150 ppi? Feel free to suggest other changes. JF

Hoosier
02-10-2013, 09:25 AM
Worth a try.

Mind you again I am still figuring this out so I am not likely the best opinion out there but I wonder if there is a way to create a layer where the tracks and points of interest could be mapped on a clear overlay that when imported to a handheld device allows the overlay to rest on the already existing base map, topo or birdseye in your unit and those maps serve as the base layer to be the background.

I guess it could always be done as a series of tracks and waypoints but not sure that that is what you would want to put out there from a business perspective.

Thanks!

JoeFred
02-10-2013, 07:53 PM
I think I follow. Sound to me to be practical goals.

For me to better grasp the basics I need to be able to see the results of my attempts at generating files. As it is I sorta feel as though I am bowling through a curtain. :smile:

I am hopeful I can get a much needed jumpstart on the subject in general using my Droid Razr. Please see the new thread "Need Help Re. Custom Maps for Android Phones" (http://littleriveroutfitters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16676).

JoeFred
02-23-2013, 12:38 PM
It is not GPS handheld-worthy still, but some progress has been made in that direction.

I created a custom map of our subdivision using the Android CustomMaps app (www.custommapsapp.com). Using it's KMZ on my Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 7.0, I am able to observe my location coordinates and heading as I make my way from my man cave (excuse me) my office to the bathroom, an oft travelled path. More field testing planned today... I may venture out as far as my shed… armed, of course.

Mrs. Maps and I made some inroads into things last tonight using her iPad 2, but it's a steep learning curve for us older folks.

For Android device owners who are current LRO forum members, but just for a limited time, I will make you a free rough 1 mile x 1 mile test map of an area of your choosing that you can get to readily. To take advantage of this exclusive offer :rolleyes:, e-mail me the coordinates of the approximate center point of the area as in this example: 35.855436,-83.811951 (No. 1 Green at Bays Mountain Golf Course in Seymour). For when your approach shot lands a half mile from the cup. :smile:

JoeFred
02-24-2013, 04:09 PM
Here is a test KMZ that works on my Andriod device:
abrams_horseshoe_sat3.kmz (http://www.smokystreams.com/mbdocs/abrams_horseshoe_sat3.kmz)
Please someone, let me know if it does on your Garmin and any comments.

Caution: Even the best in GPS and night vision technology won't necessarily get you out of the "shoe" the same day if darkness falls on you. There's no camping there. There's awesome fishing, but some awfully slippery wading. I suggest that if you venture there do so at first light and with a buddy.

This is a scaled down version of the image used to create the KMZ.
http://www.smokystreams.com/mbdocs/abrams_horseshoe_sat3_thumbnail.jpg

JoeFred
12-07-2013, 03:14 PM
JoeFred
...
Of the three maps the Elkmont map seemed to hold its resolution the best as I zoomed in but still fuzzy as I work in closer before my Topo US Maps take over as the primary view.

.....

Hoosier, please try this larger KMZ.
http://www.smokystreams.com/mbdocs/below_elkmont_2.kmz

Thanks, JF