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Mac
01-07-2014, 12:03 PM
Hoping someone here on the forum might have more information on this topic.

I missed the Bass Pro Shop's and the December Bluegrass Trout's Unlimited Chapter having a meeting with the Kentucky Fish and Game Department discussing this new project. Having a hard time finding any information about the project.

Any updates are greatly appreciated


Sparse Gray Hackle, :redface:

bigsur
01-07-2014, 12:41 PM
Not sure if this was what you were looking for this was part of a report in a newspaper up your way. Looks like recent info from Monday via KY Wildlife, hope this helps.

http://www.dailyindependent.com/local/x1186910445/2014-fish-wildlife-projects-announced


"The department is stocking more and bigger fish in Lake Cumberland and the tailwater below Wolf Creek Dam in anticipation of the lake returning to normal levels this year.

The prolonged drawdown was prompted by emergency dam repair work that started in 2007. While the lake remained low to help reduce stress on Wolf Creek Dam, bushes and trees that grew along its banks will provide good fish cover once it is flooded by the lake’s rising water.

“It will be almost like a new lake effect for the next several years,” said Fisheries Division Director Ron Brooks.

A project to improve and reroute Hatchery Creek downstream of the dam should get underway this year. Contractors will build a new one-mile channel featuring numerous pools and riffles extending to the Cumberland River."

Byron Begley
01-17-2014, 11:28 AM
I can’t find much about this online but I am hearing bits and pieces. Hatchery Creek runs from the Wolf Creek National Fish Hatchery a short distance through the campground below Wolf Creek Dam and Lake Cumberland. It has always been a great little trout fishery.

The plan is to extend the length by re-routing the stream which empties into the Cumberland River. I have heard it will eventually be about a mile long. From what I hear, some work has been done on Hatchery Creek already.

This seems like a great project, I just wish I knew more about it.

Byron

Grannyknot
01-17-2014, 05:53 PM
I can’t find much about this online but I am hearing bits and pieces. Hatchery Creek runs from the Wolf Creek National Fish Hatchery a short distance through the campground below Wolf Creek Dam and Lake Cumberland. It has always been a great little trout fishery.

The plan is to extend the length by re-routing the stream which empties into the Cumberland River. I have heard it will eventually be about a mile long. From what I hear, some work has been done on Hatchery Creek already.

This seems like a great project, I just wish I knew more about it.

Byron

Byron, is that the little creek that drains the fish rearing pools?
I cant for the life of me figure out how they could re-route it to add any significant distance. Is the river itself being considered a lost cause at this point?

Stonefly
01-17-2014, 05:57 PM
Sounds like Dry Run Creek over at Norfork in Arkansas. That one drains from the hatchery, contains huge fish eating the food that is flushed from the hatchery, and is restricted to young folk and handicapped.

steve

Hoosier
01-22-2014, 01:36 PM
It is the little creek that drains the fish rearing pools (Hathery Creek). And Byron has it right. Creating a mile length to be part of Hatchery Creek. Should be starting up as weather opens up shortly. Probably will see work in ernst later this spring and summer.

Project being paid for with KY In Lieu fee monies.

Joe Congleton
01-27-2014, 12:58 PM
current regs on hatchery creek allow same creel limits as main river, but the new one mile streambed of hatchery creek being created will be proposed as no kill to the Commision. Keep your fingers crossed. A good photo opp stream might be born

billyspey
01-30-2014, 03:14 PM
https://www.facebook.com/wade.daffron/posts/736996656312379

Joe Congleton
02-01-2014, 10:55 PM
speaking for the Facebook impaired and challenged, somebody tell me the link says? thanks :confused:

lauxier
02-17-2014, 10:41 PM
the new Hatchery Creek mile will offer great fishing for bait fishermen.I don't think it is being set aside as a fly fishing place.It will be open to the public,to be fished as is,using whatever methods,and techniques available...it'll be elbow to elbow for a while,during summertime holidays it'll be elbow to elbow again...on blue skied weekends.. elbow to elbow...which means for those of us who cast flies,the river will be ours once again....don't forget ...the Cumberland Tailwaters have been heavily stocked with smallmouth ...they are doing well...in another year or two these waters will offer the best smallmouth fishing in the Eastern USA(or so THEY say)

lexfly
02-18-2014, 02:03 PM
lauxier,
where did you hear that smallmouth were stocked in the cumberland tailwaters?

Joe Congleton
02-27-2014, 05:42 PM
The Ky state fisheries committee for the Commission has recommended a catch and release only regulation for the New Hatchery Creek. It is expected to be passed by the full Commission at the next Commission meeting in about a month.

As to smallmouth, there has been no smallmouth stocking and there are no plans for any smallmouth stocking; from the head fisheries biologist in the stat, today.

bredmon930
05-03-2014, 01:27 AM
Hello everyone,
Its been a long time since ive visited/posted on here. Between having babies and work, ive been so busy its not even funny. Ive barely had time to fish unfortunately, let alone make it down to the Smoky's to get a trip in. But finally as fate would have it, Ill be making it down for a trip next week for 4 days in the backcountry.... FINALLY!!!! after 2.5 yrs.

So I guess its also fate that I found this post upon my return.

My name is Brad,I live in Lexington, Ky and I am the Field Superintendent for the EcoGro/Ridgewater team (stream restortion Contractor/designers/speclists). Us along with Stantec (engineering firm) were awarded the contract for the Hatchery Creek Design Build Project last fall. I have personally been involved with the design process, and as the only true trout bum from both companies I have been a popular fella...lol. We finished the final design end of March/First of April. Construction has been slightly delayed as we have had alot of hoops to jump through with this project being on Corps. Property. As it stands we are awaiting for the Environmental Assessment to go to 30 day public notice, then hopefully we will be awarded our 404 permit (the last of many), and can begin construction. Hopefully around the first of June as long as there aren't any more set backs.

Now thats out of the way......down to the nitty gritty.

As far as the specifics: Presently the discharge from the hatchery, at a constant 28 CFS and 45-50 degress, goes down roughly 400 ft of a riprap channel, dumps down a concrete pipe into what we call the ravine that then dumps into the Cumby after flowing about 900 ft. What we will do is build a clay core/rock protected dam across the ravine in order to get the flow across. The NEW stream will then wind its way down the valley for about 5800 ft and dump into the Cumby through a series of step pools that will act as a fish ladder so the big hawgs in the river can access the creek to spawn. More on the spawning later.

As far as the creek itself between points A & B: We have designed a migration barrier between the upper 400 ft. and the rest of the stream so that the bigger fish don't make it up into that area and eat the stockers. This area will also be re-established as a more natural stream and the current regs. will remain the same and THE ONLY AREA OF THE STREAM THAT WILL BE STOCKED (more later). As far as the rest of the channel, Its like nothing most people will think of as being a trout stream. Its going to consist of numerous braided channel sections and connected wetlands. The grade change for much of the stream ranges from .01 to .1% Given the grades, and after many discussions, we decided to kind of model the Deschutes. Its going to be slower and more sluggish stream, and I picture it resembling North Eastern, beaver dam Brookie steams. Not to worry, there will only be between a 3-5 degree increase in water temp. base on our temp. models.

As Field Super. I am in charge of all surveying, grade shooting and work right beside the excavator during construction telling him what goes where. So essentially I'm responsible for building the creek. As such, Ive been given about 1000 ft. to construct a fisherman's dream stream. This area has more of a 1.0-1.5% (roughly) grade and create velocities that will allow us to create more of an idealistic trout stream. Steeper riffles, bouldery pocket water runs, deep pools etc. The last roughly 600 ft is about a 30 ft decent into the Cumberland river or about a 5- 6% grade. It will be a series of step pools to act as a natural fish ladder so that trout can migrate up from the Cumberland. During generation pool, about half this section will be completely submerged by the the river itself, making easier for the trout to make it up, but also makes it very difficult to design.

One of the main goals of this project: TO MAKE KY'S FIRST SELF SUSTAINING TROUT FISHERIES. The goal is for this stream to never be stocked. It is to act as a headwater stream for the trout in the Cumberland to migrate into to spawn. We are bringing in natural river washed gravel, specifically screened for ideal size for trout spawning. This gravel will be used to dress a certain percentage of the riffles, specifically the glides and ideal trout spawning areas. Its expensive, and thats why there is only a percentage of the riffles/glides that will get it. As a little research, we will also use just regular quarry limestone (roughly 57 sized) thats more angular to see if trout will also spawn in it. The braided channels and connected wetlands sections are great rearing habit for fingerling and juvenile trout and give them refuge from the bigger, hungry trout. The goal is also that many of these will remain in the stream most of their lives and become "resident" trout. These areas also offer numerous other benefits.

According to the state Trout Biologist, given the 3 familes of trout stocked in the Cumberland; Brooks, Browns and Bows, and the several different species of each, its very possible for there to be active spawning about 10 mos. out of the year. I'm personally a little skeptical of that. But if he's right there should always be trout in the stream no matter what.


THE REGS: The upper 400 ft will remain stocked and all regs will remain the same as a put/take fishery. Still have the kids "Catch a Rainbow" fishing derby, handicap access, and allow bait fishing. BUT, from the end of that, From the migration barrier to the Cumberland will be a Catch and Release, artificial fly/lure only stream year round. KY's first stream with these regs. One thing that it has going for it is there is little to no vehicle access and will only be accessible by foot which hopefully will deter alot of lazy bait chuckers. It will also not be an easy stream to fish, especially as it grows in and the veg takes over in the next few years. Also making it difficult is that fact that there is only about half a foot the top of the banks from the waters edge, which will make it a boggy mess and difficult to walk along the banks.

This is not a stream designed for bait fishermen to just pull up and start pulling out fish. ALOT of money is being spent for this and is the first of its kind in the nation. Something like this, at this magnitude has never been done. The man in charge of this project for KDFWR is also an avid fly fisherman and intends for it to be maintained as such. And given my passion for trout and fly fishing, is a project im proud to be a part of.

Well, I hope that answers some questions for you fellas, and if you have anymore don't hesitate to ask. I will try to answer to the best of my ability. I'll try to keep you updated also as to the progress and when construction will start. This truely is a dream project for me and im super excited about it and can't wait to get started!!!!!

Tight lines and High Sticks.

David Knapp
05-03-2014, 08:36 PM
Great information there Brad! Thanks for sharing some inside info on what is happening up there. I look forward to checking out the results of your efforts!

silvercreek
05-04-2014, 09:59 PM
Thanks for taking time for this detailed report. Wish you success.

bmadd
05-05-2014, 10:18 AM
Great report. Sounds like an awesome job you have. I'm sure it has it's difficulties but that's pretty awesome.

lauxier
07-01-2014, 04:26 AM
it was heresay---could have just as easily walked up to the hatchery and asked

bredmon930
08-02-2014, 09:48 PM
Just wanted to post an update. We received the Notice to Proceed on the Hatchery Creek Project last Thursday. We started falling trees on Friday and starting full steam on Monday Aug. 4. Hopefully everything goes smoothly and 6-7 months from now we are turning the water loose in it. I'll more or less be living down there with limited internet access but will try and post updates as things progress. And hopefully some pics of some big Cumby browns from my after work hours excursions!!!!!

David Knapp
08-02-2014, 10:37 PM
Just wanted to post an update. We received the Notice to Proceed on the Hatchery Creek Project last Thursday. We started falling trees on Friday and starting full steam on Monday Aug. 4. Hopefully everything goes smoothly and 6-7 months from now we are turning the water loose in it. I'll more or less be living down there with limited internet access but will try and post updates as things progress. And hopefully some pics of some big Cumby browns from my after work hours excursions!!!!!

Bredmon, shoot me an email at the address below in my signature if you can. Thanks!

bredmon930
08-02-2014, 11:05 PM
Bredmon, shoot me an email at the address below in my signature if you can. Thanks!

Email sent

Byron Begley
08-27-2014, 03:00 PM
Hi Brad,

Just got back from a 2-day float on the Cumberland River. My buddy Frank Brown and I stayed at Lake Cumberland State Resort Park. We went down to Hatchery Creek Sunday afternoon and looked around. We have been there several times and even fished there years ago.

Frank was the Kentucky Wildlife Commissioner who pushed for and got the slot limits on the Cumberland many years ago. He was the only trout fisherman on the commission at the time. He served 12 years.

We drove around the back roads and found the construction entrance.

This morning, we went back hoping to see you. I did talk to one of the guys who works on the project. He was leaving to catch an airplane to take photos of the project from the air. He said you were really busy so I gave him my card to pass on to you.

Please send me an e-mail. I would like to highlight this project on our website but I would need feeds from you.

There must be many other locations suitable for a project like this one. This seems to me to be a very important model for the future and I want to let others know, using our website, what can be done.

I grew up in Kentucky near Lexington and spent much of my childhood fishing Lake Cumberland. That is a very special place to me. I am thrilled to see what you guys are doing.

Frank and I floated with guide Hagan Wonn Monday and Tuesday. Fishing was awesome Monday and slower yesterday. Hagan is an excellent guide and a good guy to spend two days with on the river. It was with him that I hooked the largest trout in my life probably 10 or more years ago, on the Cumberland.

Thanks,

Byron Begley

Byron Begley
08-27-2014, 03:22 PM
Grannyknot,

I am so sorry I missed your post and question. Hatchery Creek is the outflow from the National Fish Hatchery. This weekend we hiked as far as we could where the new stream bed will be built. It is flat where we were and looked to be perfect for a future stream.

The Cumberland River is not a lost cause. Now that the dam has been repaired, flows are mostly back to normal. Fishing is good. The river is coming back. An angler caught a 30" brown there a few days ago. We caught rainbows, browns and brook trout. They all looked healthy and fought hard.

Byron

Joe Congleton
08-27-2014, 05:52 PM
Byron- saw Hagan today on the river and he was bragging on you. :smile:

It doesn't take a genius to see a nice catch and release stream meandering down through the Walnut Orchard below Norris; or a spawning channel/catch and release stream. Only take s money and a plan….

Byron Begley
08-28-2014, 05:05 PM
Byron- saw Hagan today on the river and he was bragging on you. :smile:

It doesn't take a genius to see a nice catch and release stream meandering down through the Walnut Orchard below Norris; or a spawning channel/catch and release stream. Only take s money and a plan….

He was probably bragging about the fact that I fished in his boat two days and did not hook him once. Now I'm bragging!

You are right about the money and the plan. What would be needed first is the plan. Then, it would be brought before TWRC and TVA. If TWRA was willing and got the green light, they would go to TDEC to find mitigation money. I think that is how it worked in Kentucky except the Corps was involved more than TVA. KFWC was all over this idea from what I heard. I wonder if you could tap into the source of a completed dam for the needed flow? I've been told they did that at Flaming Gorge, UT and maybe Tims Ford, TN.

Byron

Joe Congleton
08-29-2014, 06:14 AM
The concept has been around a while. Thirty plus years ago I proposed that TVA consider a spawning channel/catch and release stream at the Norris dam reservation when the working group was drafting the Alternatives to Tellico dam economic study ; without re-reading the report, i'm not sure it made it into the final report. Idea was to use some of the minimal outflow from the dam and create a serpentine stream/"perfect gravel spawning bed " through the walnut orchard area. At that time in the it was (and maybe still is) viewed as sort of a wild idea in the minds of the TVA engineers who said too expensive, waste of hydro water, and the usual arguments. The biologists said at the time that the spawning area (even if built on a large scale) could not replace the hatchery supplement fish in order to maintain the volume of fish that the river can support. The idea of a stream -spawning area could be applied to any Corps or TVA dam where the downstream areas below the dams is government owned.

The biologist who manages all the trout fisheries in the state of Ky told me yesterday that the working group for the Hatchery Creek met on monday for an extended session and the plan is moving forward, but still has a lot of design issues to work out. Example:The new portions of the stream at wolfe creek are being built through what is basically a dirt field, and stabilizing banks and controlling erosion and water clarity is a huge issue; rock and gravel will be imported and used but they want the place to appear natural…tough balancing act with limited funds.

Hoosier
10-07-2014, 02:43 PM
http://youtu.be/wOqa8tNK88s?list=UUdJM0sHqyWOmjsPtRhFS15Q