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Rusty Hook
10-02-2006, 09:05 AM
I am interested in learning if other fly-fishers and visitors to our GSMNP are as troubled as I by the ever increasing number of overly loud motorcycles. Now before everyone gets their tippet in a knot, I want to reiterate the words overly loud. I am sure one of the best ways to enjoy our mountains is on the back of a motorcycle, but the bikes I’m asking you to comment on are the ones so loud as to be considered noise pollution, not the properly muffled average street bike. I would also not limit this to motorcycles…automobiles that are not properly muffled should be addressed as well.

I almost never fish the main body of the Little River anymore for just this reason. Our mountains are such a beautiful and serene place to come and shake off the rest of our world. Then the peace and sound of the river is completely obliterated by the sound of a motorcycle you can hear from over 300 yards away…then when it’s closer, the rider gives you the obligatory rev of the engine…nice.

Why has the National Park Service not instituted regulations controlling this noise pollution? Could it be because the average income of the American Harley Davidson owner is in excess of $75k/yr? I hope not. I know, I know…it’s not just Harley’s…that is the only data I could come up with. My point is if local municipalities can ticket teen-agers for their loud car stereos, why can’t our National Park Service do the same. Enforcement?? Sure, there are not enough rangers already…but if the penalty was substantial enough, it would probably discourage the vast majority of the guilty. I’m sure I’m opening up a can of worms here…but I would really appreciate your response. If there are enough like minded visitors to the park, maybe we can effect change.

Tight Lines everyone…
Rusty Hook

choctaw
10-02-2006, 10:24 AM
Rusty Hook, I agree with you about the bike noise! The excessive noise could be eliminated by the riders and most likely would be if they were made aware and reminded of the possibility of it annoying others by having signs posted along the park's right-of-ways saying something like "excessive noise pollutes, too", or "quiet area", or "minimum noise area", or something to that effect. After all there are quite a number of roadside signs in the park showing "quiet walk-way" suggesting a similar idea.

I have been riding and owning motorcycles for about 40 years, (mostly Harleys) and still do not like those noisey unbaffled mufflers! Of the thousands of very nice folks that I have met biking I cannot think of but just a very few that would not agree to willingly putting forth a serious effort to being quieter while in the park if signs suggest it.

As far as bikers making 75 grand or more a year, thanks for the compliment!
Your point there is well made, for the manufacturers both U.S and foreign have spent millions upgrading the image of bike owners and have succeeded in doing so, particularly Harley-Davidson. It is truly amazing to have witnessed this change from the riders being looked at with a jaundiced eye by the public at large to one of being looked at now with "I sure wish I could afford a Harley!" Hollywood created those earlier bad reputations starting with Marlon Brando as a maverick/outlaw type and then followed with the ****'s Angels glorification movies.

But: 'Tain't true not more'. As an example, I met up on Clingman's Dome area Saturday a former Lt. Governor from Florida on his Harley. He was meeting the Motorcycle Escort from a Florida Shrine Temple...twenty of them...to lead them on a trip to show them our area!

Additonally, Bikers do, indeed, bring a lot of money to our local economy individually as well as during their many large events and rallies.

And some of them, like me, have chosen to move up here where retirement let's me do the three activities that I love most: Flyfish in the Park, ride my Harleys on these beautiful mountain roads and live among and meet such friendly people that live here, fish here, ride here and operate their entrepreneurships...like Paula, Byron and Danial.

Would you do us all a favor and make a suggestion to the GSMNP officials to put up some signs?

May 'they' strike often for you!!!

Choctaw

Troutman
10-02-2006, 11:20 AM
I totally agree that the noise pollution from overly loud motorcycles and cars is out of control. I do not think the NPS will post signs though. I suggested a few years ago to the NPS biologist to post signs in the picnic areas about trash prevention and not damming the river beds for tubing channels. They said the NPS does not want signage because it is unattractive to visitors. I guess trash and siltation is better. I feel it would be very hard to get the park service to initiate a low decibel noise regulation and getting people to install temporary muffling devices on their vehicles. Soon there will be nowhere to get away from it all.

JoeFred
02-05-2011, 02:02 PM
Electronics have come a long way...:smile:

http://www.smokystreams.com/mbpics/thread07111_pic1.jpg
JF

ahighlan
02-05-2011, 02:46 PM
Doesn't really bother me. If I don't want to hear noise I just walk a bit further away from the road or go to a less traveled area of the park.

Pretty much a given that 441 and LR road are going to be fairly loud, even if only road noise from tires.

That said, consideration from some riders/drivers to try to keep the revs lower would probably go a long way.

Crockett
02-05-2011, 04:12 PM
Actually I do a lot of backpacking miles off the roads and can still hear the motorcycles you guys are talking about there. If you think you can escape it going into the backcountry you are sadly mistaken. Maybe right next to a roaring stream but walk a few hundred yards away or hike a ridge top and you will hear them plain as day. Lots of times its just the sound of the wind, a stream in the hollow below, and some fool on an unmufflered bike 4 miles away who thinks he is a big man and needs attention with his loud bike. I think they should fine the **** out of those idiots.

ifish4wildtrout
02-05-2011, 04:51 PM
Fishing the Oconaluftee, in particular, can be a bit unpleasant with all the loud bikes and the burning brake smell. :frown:

whitefeather
02-05-2011, 05:13 PM
I'd like to comment here if I may. I agree with those who posted objecting to the motorcycle noise.

First of all, on this quote: "I suggested a few years ago to the NPS biologist to post signs in the picnic areas about trash prevention and not damming the river beds for tubing channels."

Both these activities are against the laws governing the GSMNP, with severe penalties if caught doing so! People don't respect the laws! The rules! Or anybody else's rights for that matter!

They are in the "wild, wild west"! The rangers are usually attending to matters of a higher priority or a myriad of other stupid things people do and hardly have time to enforce the rules, when every kid in the campground is doing it, despite the signs to the contrary, when their parents let them do whatever they want.

One year, I pointed out to a ranger when I flagged him down, that there were seven people "stealing" river rocks out of the Bradley Fork and putting them in the trunk of their full size sedan. The adults were promptly arrested for theft and their teenage children were ticketed! If I hadn't pushed the issue and I mean pushed to the limit, nothing would have been done.

Most of the promotion for the thousands and thousands of motorcycles comes from the Qualla boundary and their festivals. Not all, but most. Its spill over. The Qualla boundary is getting the money the bikers spend and the park the fallout of noise.

I am a biker, ride a souped up 1200 Harley Sporster, that can be as loud as a bad thunderstorm. I can also ride it in a manner that would barely suggest I'm even around. My choice, and I don't feel the need to "raise ****" but every once in a long while. My exhaust pipes are as legal as they can be, even in a big city.

The reason most Harley's are made loud is because "they get noticed" and by that I mean, from the standpoint of safety, "they get noticed" and are looked for. Make noise and heads will turn, brains will re-engage.

Most drivers of cars are very dangerous in the way they drive these days and tend to run over, force off the road, pull out in front of, stop too quickly in front of, run stop signs, run traffic signals, swerve in front of, pass on double yellow lines, pass on curves, etc. These are things, and I am not exaggerating, that I see and have to avoid every time I get on my bike. The same people will do these things to other cars, trucks, and even tractor trailers. They're in their magic, air conditioned, techno-bubble sedan, so they are fearless.... my take... just plain brainless.

The National Park system is the "peoples" parks and you're always going to have a disrespectful bad element in any group of people.

I have never ridden my bike in the Smokies. If I ever do, I promise, it will come in on a trailer to the campground and it will be ridden in the quietest manner possible out of respect to all the other fisherman, hikers, nature lovers, picnicker's, and anyone else who might happen to be in the park. It's just the right thing to do!

Get involved, make your voice heard, but please don't suggest a "police state" as a means to solving the problems! The rules that exist are not enforced now! Neither will any new ones!

Maybe all that loud noise helps to keep the bears in the woods and not on the roads. Just sayin...

Whitefeather
__________________________________________________ _
Blue skies, warm gentle winds, and trout filled waters to all!:smile:

Owl
02-05-2011, 07:07 PM
I am in total agreement with WhiteFeather. that is all.

GrouseMan77
02-05-2011, 07:16 PM
One year, I pointed out to a ranger when I flagged him down, that there were seven people "stealing" river rocks out of the Bradley Fork and putting them in the trunk of their full size sedan. The adults were promptly arrested for theft and their teenage children were ticketed! If I hadn't pushed the issue and I mean pushed to the limit, nothing would have been done.

Thanks for grabbing the ranger! That is one that really bugs me.

steamnsteel
02-05-2011, 09:07 PM
Actually I do a lot of backpacking miles off the roads and can still hear the motorcycles you guys are talking about there. If you think you can escape it going into the backcountry you are sadly mistaken. Maybe right next to a roaring stream but walk a few hundred yards away or hike a ridge top and you will hear them plain as day. Lots of times its just the sound of the wind, a stream in the hollow below, and some fool on an unmufflered bike 4 miles away who thinks he is a big man and needs attention with his loud bike. I think they should fine the **** out of those idiots.

I agree! If I should drive my jeep with open headers it will be a guranteed ticket. If I am not mistaken there is already a law for overly loud bikes and vehicles, sadly it is not enforced for the loud blapping harleys. Adam is correct about the noise in the back country, unless you are in an isolated valley or hollow somewhere, the noise will still filter through the trees and across the water.

I don't agree with the statement loud pipes save lives either, most cars today are so quiet inside that the drivers don't hear the loud pipes coming and can barley hear them passing by as long as the windows aren't down. Ever notice how many drivers don't hear the sirens approaching? While in the jeep with the top off it can be really annoying alot of times, my son has acute hearing and those that go charging by just don't realize the pain that they are causing him. I have friends and relatives that think that it is funny that someone covers there ears while they pass them.

I am not trying to poke a stick in anyone's eye but it would be nice if the decible level was enforced. as an ending note, I used to have 5 bikes to ride at any given time and one of them were eyeball shaking loud. A little courtesy would be nice.

2weightfavorite
02-05-2011, 10:58 PM
motorcyclists love to blame cars for their crashes, as they pass in no passing zones, drive crazy fast, do stupid stunts, and **** ill even add park where ever they want. Bikers should be extra careful, THEY chose to drive the dangerous vehicle, not us car and tuck drivers. Cannot stand bikers. Wild Hogs! Banker by day, hells angel by night... rediculous

JoeFred
02-05-2011, 11:04 PM
And the noise doesn't always subside once the kickstands are down. Three drunk bikers ruined my overnight stay at Cosby Campground recently. They returned to their site near mine at 11 at night and after 2 hours of full throated cussing and threats of whoop a**, they finally passed out in, or near, their pup tents.

JF

whitefeather
02-05-2011, 11:49 PM
"I don't agree with the statement loud pipes save lives either, most cars today are so quiet inside that the drivers don't hear the loud pipes coming and can barley hear them passing by as long as the windows aren't down. Ever notice how many drivers don't hear the sirens approaching?"

I didn't say that in my post so you heard it elsewhere! And since most cars are that quiet, people who drive them will have a tendency to pull out in front of a bike without looking because they either have no idea they are there or are not looking.

"motorcyclists love to blame cars for their crashes,"

Maybe, but it's a statistically proven fact by thousands of police accident reports every year.

"as they pass in no passing zones, drive crazy fast, do stupid stunts, and **** ill even add park where ever they want."

You're one hundred percent right but not all bikers do this, and I've seen car drivers do the very same things!

"Bikers should be extra careful, THEY chose to drive the dangerous vehicle, not us car and tuck drivers."

I for one am as careful as I can be, but I can not control the careless actions of others. But guess what, the people who ride bikes also drive cars and trucks. And as far as the bike being the dangerous vehicle, I'd say you've got that one backwards. Just because you may be the biggest vehicle on the road does not mean you own the road and have all the rights to the road. With that kind of attitude, now who's the one that is dangerous?

"Cannot stand bikers. Wild Hogs! Banker by day, hells angel by night... ridiculous."

That one speaks for its bigoted self!

"And the noise doesn't always subside once the kickstands are down."

No, in some cases it doesn't! But that is a people mentality problem which can not be attributed to everyone who rides a bike. Why lump all bikers into the same pot?

Use your same argument logic for fisherman, campers, and hikers who litter and destroy nature and see how you come out on that one. I don't think you'd like being lumped into that group, would you? Then why are you doing so to all bikers? Kind of hypocritical if you ask me.

Whitefeather
________________________________________________
Blue skies, warm gentle winds, and trout filled waters to all!:smile:

steamnsteel
02-06-2011, 12:47 AM
Whitefeather, I didn't say that you had made a statement about loud pipes saving lives. I have heard the comment from different bikers and I have even seen a few vehicles sporting a bumper sticker stating the same. I was just trying to show the mentallity of alot of bike riders that I have made the comment.

A motorcycle can be hard to spot in traffic and even on clear country roads the visual cue of a bike won't always registar with some drivers. Yes it is a spooky, scary feeling taking evasive action to keep from plowing a vehicle. I know, I have been there and could almost count the bugs on the front of the car or truck.

It doesn't matter what vehicle is on the road, driving and riding is a pleasurable experience and also a dangerous proposition.

whitefeather
02-06-2011, 01:25 AM
steamnsteel,

Okay, no problem then!

Looking back I think automotive technology, while being good in many ways, has in many ways, made things bad on the road. People just don't seem to be as attentive as they were years ago. The technology tends to distract us or make us lazy and relegate us to our own little "tunnel visioned" world if we let it.

I used to drive tractor trailers for a living also. Seen a lot of craziness out on the road. Stories I could tell most people would not even believe.

For someone on a bike to do some of the stupid things that were mentioned and believe me, I've seen them too, is suicidal. Some riders are just asking for it and one day may get their wish.

Getting creamed by another vehicle just isn't my idea of a peaceful way to "check out."

Driving is said to be a privilege, not a right. That's true, but I also see it as a grave responsiblity which could have life altering or life ending consequences if not taken seriously.

"Ride to live, live to ride!" says it all!

Whitefeather
__________________________________________________
Blue skies, warm gentle winds, and trout filled waters to all!:smile:

JoeFred
02-06-2011, 08:59 AM
"...
"And the noise doesn't always subside once the kickstands are down."

No, in some cases it doesn't! But that is a people mentality problem which can not be attributed to everyone who rides a bike. Why lump all bikers into the same pot?
...


My apologies, whitefeather, I can see your point and have since deleted the name of the state the guys were from. And I would have been upset had they arrived in a minivan that late and that drunk.

JF

jeffnles1
02-06-2011, 09:03 AM
I, too, really dislike the whole loud pipe thing. It seems to have become the fad in the past 10 or so years. I don't remember bikers punching the baffles out years ago.

I had a bike for a couple years but finally realized I wanted some steel between me and whatever may hit.

In addition to excessively loud pipes, there are just far too many weekend warriors on the bikes these days. They take the test, get a license, and ride their bikes 10 or so weekends out of the year. I see a lot of stupid on bikes and much of it is because of inexperience and a bike that's far too big/powerful for their experience level.

You're not going to be giving a Ferrari 458 to a person who just got a driver's license (well, if you're an oil millionaire or drug kingpin maybe). Why does a guy with a couple hundred hours biking experience think he's safe on a big hog bike? Crazy.

Last summer, I saw 2 bikes on their sides on the same day. It was raining and both bikers carried too much speed into the turns. One was on Little River Road below Elkmont, and one was on 441 just below Chimney's picnic area. Fortunately, both parties (man/woman each bike) were wearing helmets and from what I saw, other than some road rash and a scratched up / dented bike, nothing was hurt outside of the ego.

I'm not anti-bike. They are fun and I had fun on mine. However, I am very much against loud pipes and very much in favor of common sense.

Jeff

whitefeather
02-06-2011, 01:59 PM
Jeff,

First of all I agree with you!

I don't know about other states, but in Indiana, it has been a requirement for a long time that a person has to take and pass a certified motorcycle course before getting a license (endorsement) to ride a motorcycle. Many of us old timers were "grandfathered" to receive an endorsement if we wanted it. The course isn't cheap and its pretty comprehensive. But all that proves is a person can manage to ride safely within the confines of a closed course setting, not actual highway or street conditions, and certainly not with a safe guarantee.

After over fifty years of riding I don't even go out ten weekends a year, mainly for two reasons. It's getting too darn dangerous and I usually have more important things to attend to. But its nice to get on the bike on a Sunday evening after all the tourist traffic goes home and take a relaxing (but mentally exhausting) cruise.

Loud pipes was at one time a big issue here as I live in the southern part of the state and we have a lot of tourists, especially in the fall months. At one time back a number of years ago we had a "bikers rally" called the Bean Blossom Boogie, stage at our drag strip every third week of July, about one mile from my house in the country. 35,000 motorcycle enthusiasts would descend on us and clog all our back roads with mayhem and noise, 24 hours a day. One year there eight motorcycle fatalities during the two week period.

The first couple of years everyone was up in arms about it, including law enforcement, until they started seeing the bottom line on their income statements from all the money that was being spent by the bikers. The sanctioning club would also drop off a check to local charities from donations collected statewide by the bikers and fund raising events they organized. The checks were on the order of $250,000 to $270,000 each. To my knowledge the noise abatement ordinance was never levied against a loud bike, except in a case when it was deliberate over and over nonsense from a drunk. But they did enforce it against teenagers with loud thumping car stereos.

When the club bought their own land in another adjoining county, the biker fest moved out for good, along with all their money. The howling and gnashing of teeth and agony over the loss of income from the county merchants and county government, who had originally spearheaded the protest in the first place was enormous and the crying went on for a year afterward.

My point is we all have to live in this world and try to get along, although our current geography seems to be getting more and more crowded, with more and more obnoxious attitudes.

Money talks and unfortunately, too many times it drowns out reason and common sense. After having lived through over eighteen years of loud motorcycle noise two to three times every summer within a mile of my home, I learned to "tune it out". If a person can do that, its the best first defense I can think of.

We are always going to be surrounded by obnoxious, selfish, and discourteous people. Unfortunately there were times down in the park that I was just about ready to leave the campground early to get away from them. I decided that I was going to "refuse to be" their victim by giving up what little time I had to spend in the Smokies. And in the mountains it always sounds really bad, especially if you are fishing the Luftee right on 441 or Little River on the other side of the park. My bones vibrated more than once as I tried to fly fish. Sometimes it sounds like the starting line at a drag strip. With but one poor aggravated looking Park Ranger, parked in his car trying to do something about it.

I am very sensitive to this issue, having spent nearly 20 years in the fallout of "gun barrel" politics in my county because of it.


Whitefeather
_________________________________________________
Blue skies, warm gentle winds, and trout filled waters to all!

Knothead
02-06-2011, 03:42 PM
I, too, have fished close to roads and heard the two-wheelers before they came into sight. I find it distracting at best and can't understand why someone would want to ruin their hearing. I had a motorcycle back in the early 60's. Took 19 years for the scars to go away. Wait- I was only going about 5 mph and slid in some pea gravel after letting a car go by on the circle by our house. Still haven't figured out exactly what happened. Now.....too many cars on the road for my comfort. Sold my bass boat 5 or 6 years ago because of too many boats on the water. No one knows the rules for watercraft. In closing, I think a noise ordinance would be extremely hard to enforce, given the number of staff at the GSMNP or any park for that matter.

Jim Casada
02-06-2011, 06:41 PM
Crockett--My brother, Don, hikes a great deal in the Park, as you know. He says there are many places in the Park where you can hear, all too clearly, the roar of bikes even through you are four or five miles from the road.
I have heard, via the grapevine, that the Park is at least looking at the problem of noise pollution. Looking and doing, however, are two strikingly different things.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoudoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoudoors.com)

ZachMatthews
02-06-2011, 10:25 PM
I helped with a trial in Forsyth County, Georgia, in 2006. A motorcycle cop *with his siren on* (allegedly) was not heard by a lady trying to make a left turn. He was (stupidly) driving up the centerline on a two lane road to try to reach a fight (he would have been the fourth responder--not exactly a critical call). Unfortunately for him, his bravado cost him his life.

So while I understand that motorcyclists have a good faith belief that "loud pipes save lives," I can point to a very specific example of that not being the case. And I think that's the norm.

In my experience, the motorcyclists who disobey the traffic laws the most are the speedbike/crotch-rocket set, who are very different from your Harley riders with loud pipes.
I think the Harley guys like the pipes simply because it's part of the image/fun of operating that equipment. And I don't even mind the occasional roaring bike. But the Smokies have become so popular with riders, it may very well be time to enforce a decibel limit. I'm sure there's got to be a device a cop could use to measure the sound of a bike and issue warnings/tickets accordingly.

Zach

ZachMatthews
02-06-2011, 10:30 PM
One more thing re: stupid on bikes. Kinda unrelated. I was sitting at a traffic light on a very low hill near my house the other day. There was a lady in front of me, maybe 5'6" 150 lbs., on a bike that would have been normal for a 250lb. man. As she was forced to stop for the red light, it became obvious she could not get her feet all the way to the ground and hold the bike up. She started to roll backwards toward me, then lost her balance and fell over. Lucky for her, she got her leg out of the way or it probably would have snapped.

I put it in park and got out to help. Seriously - it took everything I had and whatever little bit she could give to stand that bike back up. She had damaged the tailpipe and scratched the paint, and it was obvious this was a brand new bike.

I felt bad for her, but at the same time, she really did not need to be on that bike. Some salesman somewhere really took advantage of her unrealistic hopes and dreams.

Zach

Owl
02-07-2011, 02:40 AM
Oh brother.
Are we just looking for something to complain about lately? Is cabin fever really that bad this year?
First it's horses, then bears, now Harley's? What next guys - dang hikers ruining the feeling that you're in the middle of Alaksa?


As a motorcyclist myself and a guy who's heard these arguments before...I think trying to lump riders into categories based on what they ride is as ignorant as trying to make assumptions about individuals because of their race or religion. There seems to be an underlying arrogance among some who might think that they can stake more claim to the National Park than others, simply because they feel that they are more in harmony with the natural world. In truth, there is no decree or law that says that a visitor to their National Park must enjoy the Park in some specific way, be that by standing in a stream, riding a loud motorcycle, driving a hybrid car, walking a path or running a trail. I understand the complaints, but the desire to create a restriction on the volume of a vehicle because you, the fisherman or hiker can hear said vehicle....I mean, is that really a sound or wise use of the power of government? The older I get, the more I think that some people will not be happy until everyone on the planet is being told when they can eat, drink, and poop. ( and in what order!)

Just because you can hear their vehicles, it doesn't give you the right to outlaw their use of their park. I figured I'd have to be the one to bring this up, but fly fishermen, despite all their common sense and usually friendly nature, and the quickest to want to tell everyone else what they should and should not be able to do in THEIR Park.

Perhaps next you'd like the Park Service to outlaw RV's? Ban talking? Little shiny bells on bicycles after that?

Or just ban all traffic except foot traffic? And if for some reason the Harley Riders decided that people slinging brightly colored line around distracts them and causes accidents - and should be banned - OH the MIGHTY OUTCRY we would hear! " They can't tell us we can't fish! It's OUR Park! Who are they to think they can dictate how we use the Park?! "

I think some people get so wrapped up in their own little world ( or their own self-important hobby?) that they forget that the Park isn't there just for them.

pineman19
02-07-2011, 07:21 AM
Owl, hmmmmm, you forgot the otters:rolleyes: Myself, I have been killing time by building a few fly rods. Keeps my blood pressure down and helps the cold dreary days go by the wayside:biggrin:

Neal

Jim Casada
02-07-2011, 09:39 AM
Owl--I think if you will go back and carefully re-read the various posts on motorbikes and the noise associated with them, you will find that most posts contain valid points, make it abundantly clear they are not condemning any and all motorbikers, and show considerable restraint.

Beyond that, on a more generally philosophical basis, as someone who is an arch-conservative in most of my outlook on life, I generally agree with you take on government intrusion. However, when the behavior of one person or a group of people "enjoying" a Park directly detracts from the enjoyment of another group, it is at the very least worthy of consideration and comment. Also, it is a great stretch to equate bright-colored lines (I personally happen to prefer earth tones) with motorbike noise as a potential irritant.
One other point, I don't belive many if any of the posts proposed "outlawing" motorcyles; they just wanted a restriction in noise level. Incidentally, I'm the party who first brought up the subject of bears and horses, not to mention the otters, and I did so because I feel they merit discussion. That's what a forum is for--discussion and polite interchange (and you obviously enjoy the discusson because you participate). So if you want to be mad at someone, I guess I'm elected, and I'll conclude by adding that I find the noise of loud motorcyles a great irritant. The fact that it is under serious discussion by Park authorities may not make you happy, but it does indicate they are hearing a great deal about it from Park users. I don't think they've had many complaints about folks standing in streams and waving wands.
Jim Casada
www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com (http://www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com)

Crockett
02-07-2011, 09:41 AM
Owl you make a good argument and you are probably right for sure they won't do anything about the noise this is just a cathartic way to voice some frustrations for me. I feel the same way when I am having a picnic with the family in a picnic area and some kid comes by thumping rap music so loud our plates bounce off the table. I think the kid is a freaking idiot no different than those loud pipe bike fellows are but nothing I can do about it except give em (I would like to cut your heart out) stares which I do haha.

I will say that most bikers even the harley guys don't ride the kind of bikes I am talking about here. I don't think I could hear the average harley 4 miles off the road but some of them that do the loud pipe thing can be heard back in there and its a shame. Just like with fishing most guys are courteous and good but you have a few morons too. Same way with about anything I suppose.

Mac
02-07-2011, 12:21 PM
Whitefeather

{Quote} "brains will re-engage."

Excellent , Plan to steal this one from you and use it this summer. ;)

For both myself and others. :biggrin:

Wait one minute please while my "brain re-engages".

JoeFred
02-07-2011, 02:03 PM
As most know, Great Smoky Mountains is the most visited of all the national parks. What this home boy didn't realize until now is that it is only the 20th largest* based on total acres.

Here are some very unofficial stats on the number of Visits per Year per Acre of a few parks based on year 2008 visits for the most part:

Great Smoky Mountains 17
Yosemite 5
Badlands 4
Grand Canyon 4
Olympic 3
Yellowstone 1
Big Bend <1

Granted, the percentage of acres readily accessible will vary as will the length of the main visiting seasons, both of which should be factored in before reaching any firm conclusions.

Soooo... jus' sayin'

JF

*http://www.nps.gov/bibe/parkmgmt/park_sizes.htm

Additional Smokies visitation data http://www.nps.gov/grsm/parkmgmt/visitation.htm

whitefeather
02-07-2011, 02:33 PM
"Whitefeather

{Quote} "brains will re-engage."

Excellent , Plan to steal this one from you and use it this summer. ;)

For both myself and others. :biggrin:

Wait one minute please while my "brain re-engages".

Mac,

Just give me the credit and pay the royalty fees and you can use it all you want! LOL! Just kidding! :biggrin:

I am known to throw out an colloquialism now and again off the top of my head. I tend to make them up as I go along, but not everyone gets them!

Guess their "cranial transmission fluid" is a little thick because of the cold weather and they have difficulty re-engaging their brain. I know I do!

Whitefeather
_________________________________________________
Blue skies, warm gentle winds, and trout filled waters to all!:smile:

Streamhound
02-07-2011, 02:51 PM
JoeFred
You also have to factor into the mix the proximity to population density and it adds another layer to your analysis

501
02-07-2011, 11:31 PM
I'm sure many of you have driven the "Dragon." I enjoy driving it in my pickup
truck. I always seem to have motorcyclist drive up fast behind me wanting to pass. I try to give them the road and they pass me at recklessly high speeds. I
continually watch for them thereafter to see if they splattered on a rock or wrapped around a tree. An emergency room nurse I knew said that they often refer to motorbike riders as "organ donors." Maybe the reckless, outlaw types are their own worst enemy.......................?

Lee

flyguys
02-08-2011, 09:40 PM
Never have ridden a "street bike", just dirtbikes in my younger days. I do have a brother in law that is an ex-harley rider. He now rides a super quiet BMW touring bike. He says the loud pipe days are behind him and his buddies. He has gone from one extreme to the other. I agree with the sticker he has on his saddle bags, "LOUD PIPES SUCK!"

JoeFred
02-08-2011, 10:56 PM
Great story, flyguys.

Saddlebag and bumper stickers are examples of how we can freely express ourselves and I am all for that right we have as Americans. Other ways include what some might view as vulgar, irreverent or insensitive bumper stickers and tee shirts. Some may choose to express themselves by driving a tricked out Lincoln Mark LT pickup or head-to-toe body art and hardware. In all these cases, if we are so minded, we can simply look away. Ignoring ridiculously loud pipes is another matter. I am not speaking strictly as a solitude-seeking angler, but also as one in the rapidly growing number with gray, blue or no hair whose budgets and health limit the range of getaway destinations.

JF