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View Full Version : Best boat


smaples
01-13-2007, 06:13 AM
I would like to get everyoneís opinion on what would be the best all around boat to fish our local rivers (pigeon, holston, Watauga, clinch, French broad) and lakes and some inshore saltwater fishing in the Carolinas and Florida. There may not be a single boat that will cover this range of water. I am thinking that a jon boat might be the best choice.

RFowler
01-13-2007, 12:45 PM
smaples,

How much you looking to spend? There is a boat that will do all those things, and more, but it aint cheap.

Randy Ratliff
01-13-2007, 08:43 PM
................

Grumpy
01-15-2007, 09:46 AM
Grumpy

You got rid of yours, but get Arky to bring the Supreme over the the "Tauger" and give it a run. Now there would be some adventure especially if you let Red run the tiller.



:D *8-)

:o :o ah man, where's my therapist # at, i was almost over that frightful day :'(

Grumpy

Randy Ratliff
01-15-2007, 10:01 AM
................

smaples
01-16-2007, 07:53 AM
I am not considering cost yet. Just what is the best fit.

Grumpy
01-16-2007, 09:15 AM
I believe it's riverpro.com. There's a dealer over in E TN that build shallow water boats with jets or props on them.
One thing i've found out with the jets, you gotta be half crazy(like me) to run one to get the full effect of the boat & hope there isn't any wading anglers, they'll get miffed when ya blow through 6" of water that they're standing in :o

Grumpy

T1
01-16-2007, 12:57 PM
Grumpy,

Don't sell yourself short your not half crazy ;)

Byron Begley
01-16-2007, 02:35 PM
We have a customer who owns a Riverpro. He has an outboard that you he can change from a jet to prop drive. I think it takes about 45 minutes to make the change. The problem with the Jet is when there are a lot of leaves on the water. The pump gets clogged. Also, I fish in saltwater a lot and you never see a jet drive unless it's on one of those pesky jet skis. I don't know why and none of the guides I've talked to know. You do run through a lot of floating grass in the ocean. I've fished out of pump powered boats in Michigan. They seem to work fine up there unless you suck up some zebra mussels. I think the perfect solution would be to have both the jet and prop on a tunnel boat. A hydraulic jack plate would be nice too.

Byron

Grumpy
01-16-2007, 03:08 PM
yep, just like fly rods, one boat can't do it all, they're so blame costly though, we have to improvise.

Grumpy

RFowler
01-16-2007, 03:22 PM
Just so you'll know, there is a difference between a prop tunnel and a jet tunnel. I lost over $3,000 dollars because a dealer in Lenoir City didn't know the difference. I wanted to run a prop and a jet, like the guy Byron mentioned, but a jet will not work properly on a prop tunnel. You're better off getting a regular hull or jet tunnel. I didn't want the jet to be able to run on low water, I wanted to run it for peace of mind. There's no way I would go out on one of these tailwaters, during low flows, and run a jet.

The boat I'm talking about isn't anything like one of those jon boats. As far as I know, it would be the first of it's kind. If you've got $30,000, Jason Cajune can build it for you. In my opinion, $30,000 is cheap for a go anywhere boat. And I mean the Hiwassee to the Mosquito Lagoon.

Mike_Anderson
01-16-2007, 05:37 PM
I just bought this one so it hasnít been everywhere,,, yet! Went over some white water last Sat in it and she did wonderful. We saw water that has not seen a motor boat in a veeeery long time. If thereís enough water to cover your boots, you can run it. This is about my 6th river boat and so far is way superior to anything I've owned or ridden in yet. At 20í it has plenty of room yet it can maneuver through some pretty tight stuff. Nowhere near $30, 000 either. Sun three of us cast sink tips all day with only one collision and two of the guys had almost no experience casting a sink tip. One was a righty and one was a lefty so I kept the boat positioned so that they were whizzing by each others heads and not mine. ;)



http://www.trophyfishingtn.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/PC040008.JPG
http://www.trophyfishingtn.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/PC080019.JPG
http://www.trophyfishingtn.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/PC040007.JPG
http://www.trophyfishingtn.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/PC080033.JPG

Byron Begley
01-16-2007, 06:34 PM
Mike,

She looks great in the water. I'd only seen the driveway photos. I sent you a PM.

Byron

RFowler
01-16-2007, 07:13 PM
Yeah, that boat looks like it can handle whitewater really good. Fiberglass with all the bedrock in TN. Better you than me, a driftboat takes enough beating. I looked at those several years ago but declined. Good luck. I can just see that thing on Clinch with all the placid water.

Mike_Anderson
01-16-2007, 09:26 PM
Byron I got the PM. Thanks and I appreciate and will take your advice. Great site you have here!

John M
01-16-2007, 11:03 PM
Anyone here ever used an outboard on a drift boat for slack water or motoring up river. I know they dont handle an outboard well due to hull design. I know that it has been done but haven't found much info on it. Any thoughts from anyone here.

RFowler
01-16-2007, 11:28 PM
John, try this link and look up Drifter. He runs a small outboard on his drift boat. NGTO is nonprofit so I hope LRO doesn't mind the link.

http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ngto/

billyspey
01-17-2007, 08:12 PM
you can not do what you want with just one boat.imho. a tunnel john with jet for the cumberland and holston between differnt areas suchs as indian cave and river bend,and the clinch with 1 generator or water off *peach orchard and miller island, the so holston with 1 generator. a prop tunnel works great with jet outboard. with proper setup. most boat dealers don't know how ,to do a proper setup,you can run ankle deep water but can not float this shallow. so you need a glass drift boat to slide through these *shallow area . the best jet set up is a river pro with 200hp mercury sport jet but you will pay around 30 grand. so i chose a smaller 16ft tunnel john with ribs running length ways with 60hp 2 stroke jet. and a older southfork skiff 14 ft.with a 6hp outboard to run slack water so i don't have to row my butt off. a good pair of waders i can cover all waters. i keep my prop so when leafs *are bad in the fall i can still fish. *i have try the ark boat w jet *and bigger john with 4 stroke 115 hp jet with ribs running across.you get a wash board effect to the bottom. from my experience you can not cover all with just one boat

Mike_Anderson
01-17-2007, 08:54 PM
Tell me about it Bill, I keep trying to convince my wife that one boat just isn't enough. As it stands now I have three, my Supreme, a Stratos center console, and the old Aluminum prop job. I moved the aluminum behind the garage in hopes she'll forget about that one. ::) What boat honey :-?

RFowler
01-17-2007, 11:14 PM
So Billy, you're saying that a jet drive will run fine on a prop tunnel? Then why do boat manufacturers make jet tunnels?

I agree that one boat won't do it all, but the boat I'm talking about will do more than anything currently available. Where there is a will there's a way. Heck, if there aint a book out there, write you own, I say.

RFowler
01-17-2007, 11:22 PM
Another thing, Mike. You were boasting about your boat being nowhere near $30,000. But you have 3, correct? I was under the impression that the topic starter was looking for a very versatile boat. Billy brought up the best answer with an aluminum prop jon, in my opinion. It's the most cost effective. If a man wants something more versatile then it's going to be a custom job that costs more money.

Grumpy
01-18-2007, 08:20 AM
I thought he said a prop tunnel works great with a jet outboard :-/

Grumpy

Mike_Anderson
01-18-2007, 08:28 AM
Well, the boat is a custom and it wasn't anywhere near $30, 000 and it is extremely versatile. My Stratos hasn't seen water since last spring and the aluminum hasn't been out since I got the Supreme. I have a sentimental attachment to the aluminum since itís been so good to me for so long. The Stratos is strictly a Striper boat. The Supreme is a boat built for shallow river fly fishing or guiding. It does everything they told me it would and more. See if you can find a same size boat that will do what a Supreme will do for less then $3200. You won't.

BTW, Iíll be glad to carry on this conversation but I would appreciate it if we could do it in a more gentlemen like manner.

Thanks
Mike

RFowler
01-18-2007, 03:36 PM
Well, the boat is a custom and it wasn't anywhere near $30, 000 and it is extremely versatile. My Stratos hasn't seen water since last spring and the aluminum hasn't been out since I got the Supreme. I have a sentimental attachment to the aluminum since itís been so good to me for so long. The Stratos is strictly a Striper boat. The Supreme is a boat built for shallow river fly fishing or guiding. It does everything they told me it would and more. See if you can find a same size boat that will do what a Supreme will do for less then $3200. You won't.

BTW, Iíll be glad to carry on this conversation but I would appreciate it if we could do it in a more gentlemen like manner.


Such is the case on a lot of these forums. If someone doesn't agree with whats being said then that person is flamming the other. I'd tell you the same if I were standing right in front of you in LRO. That boat is probably a good one while there's water being generated but unless it's some kind of remote stretch of water on these rivers, then I suspect that boat would disturb someones wade/float fishing. That's the reason I didn't buy a skinny water boat. I wanted to be a gentleman to my fellow anglers. I don't think there would be one person on this forum that wouldn't agree with that. They're just not saying anything. IMHO, low water is quiet time.

Another thing I disagree with is that boat being versatile. It's not. It's made for shallow water, that's it. Think you could float that boat from Townsend to Maryville on the LR? How about the Hiwassee? Pigeon, Nolichucky, Nantahala? Heck, float that boat on the Clinch or Holston on low water. The whole point I was trying to make is a tunnel jon, or a regular jon, will do high water just as good as the Supreme. Probably better if it's thick aluminum. The boat I speak of will do all those things and do a lake or salt flat as well. It eliminates the need for multiple boats. That's why I said I thought $30,000 was cheap for such a boat.

How about a cataraft with a 15hp outboard? Anybody think that would be a versatile boat? It's not the boat I'm talking about but it's an inexpensive alternative to the boat I want.

Mike_Anderson
01-18-2007, 04:11 PM
Thatís cool, Iíd like to see that boat sometime.

RFowler
01-18-2007, 04:18 PM
Me too, Mike. Believe me, I've spent a lot of money on boats over the past 4 years. I was surprised that Jason said he could build such a thing. I would go into details but this boat would be the first of its kind (that I know of.) Unfortunately, I don't have the money to commission him at the time. If or when I can and I take delivery of this boat, you are welcome to join me, you seem very passionate about the same kind of fishing I enjoy myself. ;)

OLDBEAU
01-19-2007, 10:18 AM
HELLO FROM OLD BEAU IN KNOXVILLE.
I FISH THE CLINCH, HIWASSEE, CANEY, ETC. TOO MUCH OVER THE LAST 25 YEARS. MY SQUARE STERN GRUMMAN CANOE ISN'T AS STABLE AS IT ONCE WAS! I AM PRETTY SURE IT IS THE BOAT....NOT ME!!! I AM LOOKING FOR ANOTHER "WIDER" BOAT AND SAW THIS WEB SIGHT. I AM IMPRESSED... THANKS FOR HAVING ME...
I AM LOOKING @ A RIVER HAWK 13' OR 15'. THE SMALL 4 HP FROM THE CANOE MUST PUSH ME BACK UP THE CLINCH WITH BOTH GENERATORS....???
HAS ANYONE HAD ANY EXPERIENCE WITH THIS NEW "CANOE/JON" BOAT BUILT IN GEORGIA????
WOULD THE TUNNEL HULL WORK BETTER WITH 1 GENERATOR? SURE HAVE TORN UP A FEW PROPS, BUT HAVE ENJOYED EVERY SECOND OF IT....
THANKING YOU IN ADVANCE.
OLDBEAU

Mike_Anderson
01-19-2007, 11:14 AM
I've had a 13' Gheenoe and the Riverhawk B60 and they both are amazing boats. I would suggest you go with a larger motor however, at least a 10hp. The B60 is an extremely stable a platform as far as riverboats go. Two people can walk around with no problem. I used stand up and fish off the bow of mine. :o Iíve heard to stay away from the tunnel Hull due to performance issues.

Here is a pic of my old Riverhawk B60.

http://www.trophyfishingtn.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/Recent018%7E0.jpg

OLDBEAU
01-19-2007, 11:36 AM
THANK YOU MIKE.
QUITE A SET UP THAT YOU HAVE.....
ALREADY HAVE THE 4HP JOHNSON AND TRAILER.....
DO YOU THINK THAT THE 13' RIVER HAWK WOULD WORK WITH THIS POWER?
I FISHED IT WITH A 16' SCANOE FOR YEARS ON THE CLINCH....SLOW BUT IT WOULD GET ME BACK UP..EVEN WITH FULL GENERATION...
LET ME KNOW IF YOU WANT TO GET RID OF YOUR B-60 :)
THANKING YOU AGAIN,
OLD BEAU

billyspey
01-19-2007, 09:20 PM
i would think a 4 hp would be a struggle on most any boat against 2 generators or even one .i think you would need at least 9.9 to move at much of speed against any generation. a jet tunnel that most jon boat builders use is really to shallow for our rivers , the jet shoe is below the bottom of the boat where you can have damage running in our local rivers. a prop tunnels allows the motor to run 4 in or more above the bottom of the boat. a hydrolic plate on the motor allows movement of the motor up and down for better performance and protection these jet tunnels were not built for our type of low waters , most john boat builder are located in western arkansas or mo. they don,t have these rock infested rivers. if you were just fishing the cumberland where during low water, they have mostly gravel and sand bars a jet tunnel would be fine, the motor is the most expensive part it needs protecting. i am not saying [i am a know it all] just stating it works for me. not many boat dealers in our area know how or care to know how to do a proper setup. i have talked to all of them.

RFowler
01-20-2007, 02:01 AM
Thanks for the explaination, Billy. I know I lost money because a dealer was too proud to admit he didn't know what he was doing. I don't build or sell jet boats so I certainly don't. I have read where prop tunnels are ill suited for jets but from what you have written, it's all up to who's building it, or, setting it up. It's surprising how limited the information is on the subject in Tennessee, or the South for that matter. From my own personal boating, and experience with dealers, I have come to the conclusion that only a special custom-built boat will cover our waters most efficiently. When I say custom, I mean starting from scratch. Seeing input on the subject is enlightening. That's why I'm surprised when someone is put off by opposing comments. I've made embarrassing mistakes on the subject many times and relish solid information because of that reason. Others take offense. Thanks for knowing the difference.

OLDBEAU
01-20-2007, 08:46 AM
WOW 8-)
I THOUGHT THAT MY KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE WAS UP-THERE!
NOT SO, COMPARED WITH YOU GUYS....
THINK THAT I WILL PURCHASE A 13' RIVER HAWK AND GIVE IT A TRY....
$800.00 IS A SMALL INVESTMENT, AND I CAN STILL USE IT ON THE CHILHOWEE AND CALERWOOD FLAT WATER.....EVEN IF IT IS TOO SLOW FOR THE CLINCH AND CANEY FORK.
I REALLY ENJOY AND FEEL BETTER AFTER YOUR FEEDBACK.
THANKING YOU AGAIN,
OLD BEAU
KNOXVILLE

stretch
01-20-2007, 09:58 AM
Old Beau, to give you an idea of the flow and hp regarded to the clinch. It takes approximately 45 minutes on a 2 turbine flow, in a 15ft drift boat w/ 6hp (one person sitting in the front to help keep the front down), from peach orchard to the bottom of millers island :-?. Obviously the riverhawkís hull design is totally different than a drift boat, but with a 4hp on a 2 turbine flow, I donít believe that it would be much quicker going up river.

OLDBEAU
01-20-2007, 10:13 AM
PRETTY SLOW..!!!!
MAYBE I CAN TROLL A 3" RAPALA BEHIND.....
THANK YOU FOR YOUR INPUT..... ::)

Mike_Anderson
01-20-2007, 09:11 PM
The big problem is finding solid information on the subject. Jets are a touchy subject it seems. For every opinion there seems to be an opposing opinion on the subject. For example this excerpt from one of the few articles written about jets on the web. http://www.sonarsearch.com/Jets.htm

ďThe mistake that I nearly made in the boat selection was that I almost ordered the "tunnel hull" version of the MV1860. *Both SeaArk and Alumacraft offer several of their jonboats with a "tunnel" built into the rear portion of the hull so that an outboard can be mounted higher on the transom, drawing its propulsion water from the tunnel area. With this arrangement, a conventional outboard can be mounted so high that only the skeg on the motor projects below the plane of the bottom of the boat, deriving shallow draft while on plane. I figured that if the tunnel was good for conventional outboards, it would be great for jets. WRONG! During my research into jets, I found two dealers who had sold tunnel hulls and jets to customers who ended up with pitiful performance from their boats. *I finally located a mechanic who could explain why. The positional relationship between the water intake foot of a jet outboard, and the trailing edge of the bottom of the boat hull is very important to the proper operation of the jet. A smooth flow of water from under the boat is imperative. *The tunnel hull, while on plane, presents a very disturbed flow of water to the jet intake.Ē

Every article Iíve read and every person Iíve talked to on the subject stressed that a smooth flow of water to the jet was of the utmost importance! Some even went as far to cut the aluminum keels off the bottom of the aluminum boats.

Supreme addressed this problem by raising the back of the boat up about 3 or 4Ē and adding a "jet" tunnel". Yes the bottom of the transom is about 3 or 4Ē higher then the bottom of the boat and the jet foot is even with the bottom of the jet tunnel. It makes it a pain to get water out of the boat when its in the driveway but *when itís in the water it keeps the jet up above the bottom of the boat and protected to an extent.

In this picture you can see the way the bottom is angled up at the transom.
http://www.supremeboats.com/images/2060one.jpg

In this picture you can see the tunnel
http://www.trophyfishingtn.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/PC040008.JPG

billyspey
01-20-2007, 09:55 PM
mike you are right , hot all prop tunnels work with jets that is why a dealer with expert knowlege aboutjet setup is so important. i only one such person who has this experience .he has advised several dealers all over the country about proper set ups. he will not except boats by his boat builder if not correct. i have bought 2 boats from him on both occasions he ordered my boats on both turned down the first of each order. because they didn't meet his demands. my boat is xpress 16ft. 50in bottom with prop tunnel and[ the ribs on this boat run lenght ways which is a great improve in ride performance ] with 60hp yamaha 2 stroke w hydrolic jack plate. thetunnel has about 1 in leading edge past tunnel you can bend this edge so you can achive proper water flow.to the jet without cavation. when on plane the motor runs about 3.5 to 4 inches above the bottom of the hull. the reqason for 2 stroke over 4 stroke is 2 reasons faster rpms quicker on plane and less weight. bigger gear case allows for larger jet pump better performace this is my third jet for the river. i have owned 2 other jet grive pleasure boats one was a 19ft boat with 455 olds engine w berkley jet.top speed was in the 70 plus mph range.

CanoeFlyGuy
01-21-2007, 05:27 PM
Fowler,
you have to elaborate on your boat idea