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rainshaker
01-19-2007, 06:23 PM
Finally, *a way to fight back

I'll try to remember to post this again the closer we get to summer.

Evidently, plans for a website where citizens can report littering, is also in progress .



http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/news/2007/011807.htm

DryFly1
01-19-2007, 07:54 PM
Rainshaker,

I could not agree more! Just today I saw several "buttheads" throwing cigarette butts out the window. In addition to that, how many times have you seen cars in the "mountians" throwing out trash!!! I don't get it!

Will put that # on speed dial... DryFly1

rainshaker
01-19-2007, 09:19 PM
Early last spring I was down by the GSMNP entrance fishing the Little River when I noticed a bigpile of garbage along side the river. I looked up to notice a drainage pipe that came under the road and on the other side, there it was. The GSMNP welcome sign. Didn't take a genius to figure out that tourons likely, after posing for their family photo, picked that spot to empty out their cars in the drainage conveniently located behind the sign.

If that isn't the purest definition of Irony.......

Here's the other website I mentioned in my earlier post....

http://www.tdot.state.tn.us//environment/beautification/litter.asp

doghaircaddis
01-19-2007, 09:58 PM
Finally a way to vent my frustration when I see people littering. I'm sure I'll be dialing in quite a bit.

Woody
01-19-2007, 10:45 PM
Great Idea, I hope it deters litterers, but I don't think it will be enforced. I commute to DC every day 32 miles, takes three hour one way some days. Yes three hours. VDOT has HOV lanes set aside for three riders or more to encorage commuting. For a long time the only people taking advantage of the HOV lanes were the violators (tax paying citizen wanting to use the roads they paid for). It got so bad; signs went up, radio annnouncements etc., "REPORT VILLATORS CALL 800 XXX-XXXX". Violator would get a stern letter. Three letter and some offical action would take place !!!! This lasted about a six month. Anyone that had a grude, with a co-woker, neighbor was reported. I never violated the HOV lane but was constantaly being report by by a disgruntled empolyee. I know a guy who every other day would report his ex-wife just for the heck of it. Needless to say the system was overwhelmed and the stern letters no longer are sent. Today if the police catch you; 1st offence $75 plus court cost and 2 points 2nd offence $190 plus court cost and points, Third $390, fourth within 3 years $900 and points, 5th $1500 court, cost points, probation.

I love East TN and support any effort to keep it as Beautiful as posssible. For some people a threatning sign is all it takes, for other it dosen't matter. But money out of your pocket gets everyones attention.



I hope it works

Giantfish
01-19-2007, 10:57 PM
Do you guys remember the post about my project? if so I studied this too. even if the litter is away from the river it will eventually reach it by erosion and other causes. The GSMNP is already bad enough, I don't want other rivers like it. If it keps going it won't bother you guys as much as It will me. When you are all gone and I'm old there will be no fish left! :o That would make me mad. Also sewage is bad too. a river in Pegion Forge is so dagerous you can't toush the water! That is not good. Great Idea!
Giantfish

rainshaker
01-20-2007, 02:09 AM
For now, the anti-littering campaign seems to be a positive idea although I can see how such a system might be abused. As someone suggested ealier, I too plan on putting this number on speed dial. Every summer The Little River turns into a floating Landfill<<<----slight exaggeration. At least now there's a way to report those we catch in the act. In the meantime, I'll keep carrying out (like a lot of good anglers do) the cans and wrappers I find along the streams and trails.


I'd like to encourage everyone to tell someone else about the program. Send a link to someone who also loves being on the water.

Fish on!

loomiscane
01-20-2007, 03:20 PM
Though the tubers dont really bother me much while out fishing and i feel it is their right to enjoy the streams in their way too, in the summer parts of little river have busted tubes, sandles and beer cans and such strewn all over the place. I feel like the tube/float rental places should be some what responsible for doing what they can to keep the main floating places cleaned up. If nothing else they should help organize a volunteer clean up crew several times durring the summer.

buckeyetrouter
01-21-2007, 12:01 PM
that is a great idea to suggest to the tube outfitters, it would only benifit them in the long run ........

Does LRO have a day set aside for FF to do river litter patrol? Would anyone be interested in something like this, say clean up patrol on a Friday or Saturday then FF on Saturday or Sunday?

buckeyetrouter

kytroutman
01-21-2007, 12:20 PM
We as flyfishermen and women can help with this too. I have been fishing the Smokies for more than 35 years and with the increase in the number of fishermen, I have also seen an increase in the amount of discarded tippets, fly lines, etc. on the banks. Not only should we report litterbugs, we also need to set the example.

DryFly1
01-21-2007, 01:05 PM
Good point on the discarded FF material. I would bet money that it isn't anyone on this board that is contributing to the problem. We are way too earth conscious! With millions of people visiting the park each year you can bet that some are not so concerned about the health and vitality of our mountain streams and trout population. Bottom line- Pack it in-pack it out!

O, and keep up the good work packing out other peoples litter.

DryFly1

tennswede
01-21-2007, 03:15 PM
This has been a bother to me from day one coming to this part of the country. I pick up trash on my city street regularily and I have to pick up litter in my drive way daily in Knoxville. On the drive to the mountains in the wintertime you have to look at a littered highway all the way in to the park and beyond. I carry a plastic bag with me and pick up what I can safely reach, while I am fishing. I feel like I am in the minority and it is an uphill battle. I used to drive down to Hiwassee to help the TU chapter down there with their annual clean up and it is a lost cause. It is a good thing to do but if we don't instill the same attitude in to everyone who visits these areas, then it is almost impossible to accomplish much. I had to resort to settle for a less ambitious plan. I pick up what I can and try not to be upset or let it ruin my day when I see all the junk stream side. I got really upset last fall when I stopped at Elkmont and fond no less than eight beer bottles stacked against a tree trunk right where people park. It is just a wonderful sight the moment you step out of your vehicle. I'm not trying to sound negative and I believe we could have more clean ups and I will do what I can to help. I just want everyone to be realistic and know that change the littering habit is not going to work unless laws are strictly enforced and the manpower is sufficient. In this day and age with budget woes all the time it doesn't look like it will happen any time soon. We are somewhat limited in what we can do without law enforcement.

ijsouth
01-21-2007, 08:10 PM
I know y'all get upset when you see litter up there in the Smokies, and for good reasons. However, be thankful that, for such a popular area, there isn't more trash. On the roads in to a lot of places I fish, I see discarded fridges, stoves, etc...and that was BEFORE Katrina. It is truly the "Sportsman's Paradise" here in Louisiana, but one thing I am ashamed of in my state is the cavalier attitude towards litter...it's everywhere, and it's always been that way.

tennswede
01-21-2007, 09:08 PM
I'm afraid you are right. I do know some places that have changed for the better. I don't know what happened in certain parts of KY, but when I'm comparing certain counties in eastern KY to how it was in the late eighties, it is a lot better now. I don't know if they have begun enforcing their laws better or what. It was so bad that one day when my wife and I was driving down a county road we had to slam our brakes in order to not run in to one fellow who had stopped in the middle of the road. Guess what he was doing? Dumping a black plastic bag of some sort right in the ditch in plain view. I hope it wasn't a body :)

Jack M.
01-23-2007, 03:48 PM
"Didn't take a genius to figure out that tourons likely, after posing for their family photo, picked that spot to empty out their cars in the drainage conveniently located behind the sign."

I'm surprised to learn that locals don't litter. ::)

rainshaker
01-23-2007, 04:40 PM
here's an obscure idea...



BE A PART OF A SOLUTION...

IF YOU WANT TO ARGUE OVER WHO LITTERS AND WHO DOESN'T , THEN YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM. IF YOU THINK THERE IS NO GOOD SOLUTION THEN AT LEAST TRY TO SUGGEST ONE OF YOUR OWN

(Sorry about the caps, but in this topic I felt they were needed)

kytroutman
01-23-2007, 05:00 PM
Jack M, I have seen from other posts that you are not a local. I would invite you to come to one of the cleanups that are periodically conducted in the park. I fish the Smokies nearly year round and the amount of trash gathered outside of tourist season is minimal compared to the Spring and Summer months. I now carry a 20 gallon trash bag in my fly vest and have never returned from a trip that it is not at least a third full. Although I won't type in all caps to get me point across, don't be too critical until you have spent a day hauling trash.

Grumpy
01-24-2007, 10:43 AM
I guess that's why Phil want's to raise gas & tobacco taxes, to pay for a program that won't work :o
If they enforced litter laws to begin with, we wouldn't have this problem. Now, somone is going to call a # to report a cigarette butt being thrown out, someone sitting in a nice office will answer, get the tag #, send them a litter bag & ashtray, remind them to use it, that one phone call will probably cost $20,000 a year & i have no idea how many folks will sit around handling these calls :-/
It don't add up >:(

Grumpy

rainshaker
01-24-2007, 11:52 AM
This is me throwing in the towel.

I can't remember why I thought this anti-litter campaign was any better than the old one. Looking back, I think maybe it was because the new program demanded public participation to be succesful, as opossed to a single government agency being asked to police every corner of every county in Tennessee---that was the old me. I now understand exactly what level of apathy any program (government or otherwise) is up against and realize that the majority of us would rather trash a new idea than be faced with changing our own attitudes.

That must be how the worst offenders think: One cigarette butt won't cause a landfill, one raindrop won't cause a flood, one person can't make a difference.



:'( * <<<-------------Iron Eyes Cody

Jswitow
01-24-2007, 01:11 PM
There is a clean up on the little river every spring. Most of the TU chapters in the area help out as well as other conservation minded groups and individuals. I have not seen the date published yet, but it won't be long.

Troutman
01-24-2007, 01:45 PM
The LRTU and Smoky Mtn. TU chapters usually have their annual LR cleanup day in March. It starts at the Entrance to the Park below the "Y" on LR and goes all the way through the Elkmont campground. I have seen well over 2 longbed pickup trucks full of garbage in bags piled high in the bed, that is picked up each year. I have picked up everything from portable grills stashed under tree limbs to a womens purse that was probably stolen and discarded out a window. The worst is the ever unpopular dirty diaper :( *I know that its not just tourist who litter these streams and I'm sure most of the MB members realize this also. I don't know if this program will work with the "call to report" offenders, but maybe it will educate some to the problem of trash in the Nat. parks.

Grumpy
01-25-2007, 09:12 AM
This is me throwing in the towel.

I can't remember why I thought this anti-litter campaign was any better than the old one. Looking back, I think maybe it was because the new program demanded public participation to be succesful, as opossed to a single government agency being asked to police every corner of every county in Tennessee---that was the old me. I now understand exactly what level of apathy any program (government or otherwise) is up against and realize that the majority of us would rather trash a new idea than be faced with changing our own attitudes.

That must be how the worst offenders think: One cigarette butt won't cause a landfill, one raindrop won't cause a flood, one person can't make a difference.



:'( * <<<-------------Iron Eyes Cody

Yes, i am trashing the new program, all i can see is a lot of $$ being spent on something that isn't enforced in the first place, kind of like game laws.
I spend a lot of time on the Interstate, witnessed coffee cups & who knows what else being thrown out with law enforcement vehicles right behind the offender, were they pulled over, NO :o
Our system is failing us right & left, deep down, i hope this new program works, i know i get tired of picking trash out of my fields & i only have 2 neighbors that live past me on a dead end road, it's against the law for me to shoot them, i'd go to jail.
They can throw their trash out & if i carried them to court, they will get their wrist slapped >:(

Grumpy

rainshaker
01-25-2007, 11:23 AM
I'm with you Grumpy, to **** with it all....

Here's a little diddy that I hope will brighten your day: *Everybody sing along....


I see trees of green, red roses too.........I see them bloom for me and you......And I think to myself ..........what a wonderful world....... I see skies of blue and clouds of white ....... The bright blessed day, the dark sacred night ..........And I think to myself what a wonderful world.........The colors of the rainbow so pretty in the sky ...........Are also on the faces of people going by ............I see friends shaking hands saying how do you do ..............They're really saying I love you..........I hear babies crying, I watch them grow ..............They'll learn much more than I'll never know .............And I think to myself what a wonderful world .........Yes, I think to myself....... what a wonderful world *:)

rainshaker
01-25-2007, 12:44 PM
i get tired of picking trash out of my fields & i only have 2 neighbors that live past me on a dead end road, it's against the law for me to shoot them, i'd go to jail.


Thank God some laws are still enforced. I'd hate to see Murder go unpunished----even against littering violators. *On the other hand, if you want to talk about something as serious as stealing another man's horse, that's a different story entirely.

Jack M.
01-25-2007, 01:48 PM
kytroutman,

I don't follow your logic. Wouldn't you have to agree that the number of visitors to the Park in the Spring and Summer is much greater than other times. That alone accounts for greater litter. Locals visit more then as well. I promise you that blaming the litter on "tourons" won't do a darn thing to get it cleaned up, nor to keep it from occuring. I don't think my failure to travel 500 miles to help on a stream clean-up disqualifies me from being critical of someone who assumes litter was made by a tourist, nor from being critical of the use of the insult "touron" to describe them.

I organized a trip to the Park last April for 8 out-of-state anglers. We're doing it again this year. We left no litter, took no fish, and thoroughly enjoyed a NATIONAL park treasure. Collectively, we probably pumped over $5,000 into the local economy.

I'll make this offer to you: come to Pennsylvania for a fishing trip, treat the wild areas with the same respect we treated the GSMNP and you don't have to engage in any stream clean-ups, nor will I refer to you as a "touron." Deal?

rainshaker
01-25-2007, 02:01 PM
Just for clarification:


I think I was the one who initially used the term "touron." My use of that word was not an attempt to single-out any one group of people. I only blamed "tourons" since I found a mysterious accumulation of trash directly behind the GSMNP welcome sign.

For the sake of argument, we should use the term "touron" to describe any person who throws trash to the ground while inside the park boundary.


Thanks, I hope this helps *:)

Jack M.
01-25-2007, 02:05 PM
Just for clarification:

For the sake of argument, we should use the term "touron" to describe any person who throws trash to the ground while inside the park boundary.


Even if they are a local?

rainshaker
01-25-2007, 02:17 PM
I think it's important to first define the word:


"Local"


Then we can assign a phrase to represent locals who also litter inside the park boundary. Right now, I'm leaning towards the term:

"Loron"


Thanks, I hope this helps *:)

kytroutman
01-25-2007, 02:28 PM
Jack M, I travel to Spring Creek and Penn's Creek occasionally (at least once a year). Although I don't trash, I have picked up trash on both streams left by someone else. I was not singlling out the tourists but do recognize that there is littering by the locals and these same locals pass through the park nearly every day of the week, 12 months out of the year. If the litter was based on the number of passes through the park, it would be littered much more by the locals than is apparent from the accumulation of trash during the "off-peak season". All all the places I fish (I maintain annual non-resident licenses in WV, PA, VA, NC and TN), the trash issue is more prevalent in the Smokies than anywhere else. This is due in large part to the overall number of visitors the park receives. In a nutshell, anyone using the outdoors should tread lightly and leave it cleaner than it was when you got there, whether a local or a tourist.

Jack M.
01-25-2007, 02:33 PM
Then we are in agreement. :-*

rainshaker
01-25-2007, 02:33 PM
Thanks Troutman...

you summed it up nicely...

In a nutshell, anyone using the outdoors should tread lightly and leave it cleaner than it was when you got there, whether a local or a tourist.

Grumpy
01-26-2007, 09:01 AM
Guys, i just want to clarify that i am totally against litter. Everytime i hike in to one of my favorite Cherokee Forest streams, i see it.
One tiem we had gone 2 miles & there was a gazillon mini candy wrappers all over the ground, after spending considerable time picking those up, we procedeed to fish. We talked to a Forest Service guy later that day, he said it was probably a church or scout group, unacceptable behavior for either.
Beer bottles, whiskey bottles, food wrappers, the funny thing is, my water bottles weigh less empty than when they're full, i don't have a problem carrying them out, why do other folks have this problem?
I just see a program here with a lot of $$ to run it & no revenue coming in from it, if a fine is levied against a person, that fine will go to a local court system & not towards the program, it's another case of raising taxes for an underfunded program & more taxes to run it.
I won't even get into the case about all the idiot's running around acting like Barney Fife on their cell phones while driving.................... >:(

Grumpy

rainshaker
01-26-2007, 11:15 AM
Who's Barney Fife ?

kytroutman
01-26-2007, 05:08 PM
Who's Barney Fife? Only the greatest lawman known to mankind.

sammcdonald
01-30-2007, 12:10 PM
re: tubers. those tubing companies, beginning last year, were not permitted to transport the tubers into the park. they could, and did, drop them at the park boundry and have them walk to where they wanted to tube. this did cut down on some of the mess and alleviated some traffic problems at the wye. it also resulted in much heavier use of the little river within the limits of townsend by tubers and the resulting higher beer bottle/can count in that area.