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ttas67
06-09-2007, 11:50 PM
anyone fish the park today? if so, how did you do? I had a really rough time today. I only caught one fish. a 10" brown. oh, and 2 shiners. It could have something to do with the fact that I spent 90% of the time throwing ridiculous #10 parachute dries and various beetle patterns. I've been trying to find or design a beetle pattern that will drive the trout crazy, but have so far been unsuccessful. has anyone had any success in the park with beetles? if so, can you reccomend a pattern?

I first got turned on to beetles fishing the yellow breeches in pennsylvania. a tiny beetle up there will drive those trout crazy. I've tried to replicate that success in the park, but can't ever seem to get them to take one.

Gerry Romer
06-10-2007, 12:47 AM
Did I get it right, Paula? ;)

Had a great evening in the park! Stopped by LRO at about 5:30 to re-stock my nymph box and grab a couple more yellow dries, then headed up to Metcalf Bottoms. The plan was to fish below Metcalf for a couple hours and then maybe head over to Tremont. Never made it to Tremont because the fish at Metcalf were hungry!

I actually went back to where I caught my first tube and flip flop of the season. It seemed at the time to be a nice stretch of water. One of these days I'll give myself enough time to fish all the way back up to Metcalf. Believe it or not there was another tube there and two flip flops :eek: .

Anyway, I drifted a BHPT through a stretch of fast water and within my first 15 minutes I had 4 nice bows and one brown to hand. Just for the fun of it I switched over to a SMBBSH and they went nuts! Nothing all that big, mostly 8 to 9 inches, but they put up a nice fight all the same. It was just really nice to get a fish on with virtually every cast.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l233/gwrom/hotbow.jpg




http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l233/gwrom/6907bow.jpg



http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l233/gwrom/bowinwater0609.jpg

When I pulled in a wallfish followed by a warpaint, I decided to move upstream and try a dry and dropper setup - not my favorite.

Earlier tonight, I had decided to swap out reels and rods to mix things up and see if I had this fly fishing thing figured out or not. For some time I've been fishing an 8' St. Croix Avid 3 wt. with an Orvis BBS II reel loaded with a Rio 5 wt. Pocket water line. It's a great setup for dries in the park but not so good for nymphs or dropper rigs. I've also been fishing an 8'6" TFO 4 wt. Professional with an Orvis Mid-arbor loaded with a 6 wt. Rio Pocket water. It's been my go to setup for all around use in the park. So I swapped reels and ended up fishing my TFO with the BBS II and the 5 wt. line. THAT is my new go to setup! The feel and the precision is what I've been looking for. I had a lot more confidence throwing that dry/dropper rig and it really paid off!


This 10" bow hit a brassie dropped off a yellow foam bodied caddis in moderately fast water.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l233/gwrom/060907bow.jpg


Fished 'til dark and felt really good about this fly fishing business! The water's incredibly low but those fish are darn hungry. I don't ever really keep count but I'd guess it was maybe a dozen fish in an hour and a half... not bad!

Gerry Romer

ttas67
06-10-2007, 02:27 AM
gerry, do you drive a green pathfinder/rodeo? I believe I saw you down there this evening. I ended up fishing about a mile above you.

PeteCz
06-10-2007, 09:38 AM
Gerry, How does overlining help with the feel of casting/presentation? I've heard a few folks talk about it, but have never really asked the question before.

Gerry Romer
06-10-2007, 11:21 AM
Trevor --

Dark green Rodeo with a white "Fly" license plate on the front. Next time stop by and join the party!

PeteCz --

In general, if you've ever wondered what people are talking about when they say, "...the rod loading..." when you overline you'll find out. Specifically, overlining helps most in tight quarters with casts under 30'... at least for me. Keep in mind that both of my reels are overlined with Rio Pocket Water lines, which they don't make anymore unfortunately. The closest thing to it is Rio's new Nymph line which is basically a rocket taper sinking line so there's a lot more weight at the head. The Pocket Water is a floating line. I feel the advantage is that I'm able to roll cast with more speed and precision. I can feel the rod load better and target more effectively. I've noticed this on both My TFO and my St. Croix. When I'm not roll casting, I can get more line out with minimal false casting. The obvious advantage here is that I'm not risking spooking fish with a lot of line flying back and forth over their heads. On tailwaters the advantages are less dramatic - unless I'm sight fishing under 40'.

Next time you're headed to LRO, take your favorite rod(s) and try casting lines one to two weights heavier than what your used to. You should be able to feel it right away.
Gerry Romer

scflyfisher
06-10-2007, 05:35 PM
Trevor,

I must say that fishing terrestrials is one of my favorite things to do. I haven't fished a lot of different beetle patterns, but I have always had some success with disco beetles. I don't tie my own, the ones I have came from LRO. I haven't bought any recently, but I'm guessing they still have them at the shop. The best browns I have ver caught on Little River came on this pattern actually. Caught 5 browns, all 13-15" on the same day in about 1 hour on this beetle.

This is just my opinion of course. I have caught fish in the park on other beetles, but I seem to do best with this one so far.

Matt

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/belawela/Fish013.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/belawela/Fish011.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/belawela/Fish012.jpg

ttas67
06-11-2007, 12:26 AM
matt, I'll have to give that one a try. that's good to hear that you caught the nice browns on the beetle. that's actually what I was intending to do with it. I've been on a brown trout kick lately and have been thinking of different ways to get a big wise brown to rise. for some reason, I just got the feeling that a well placed beetle would be the ticket. I would like to figure out what kind of beetles are in the park (I'm sure there's numerous specied) but more specifically, which type of beetle may just happen to fall off a stone wall into the little river. I would also like to find out if there are any known beetle patterns developed specifically to match what would be commonly found in the park streams.

scflyfisher
06-11-2007, 09:01 AM
Trevor,

Fot some reason I feel like I have heard some info before that stated there are at least hundreds of different species of beetles in the park. I may be wrong, this number might have been even higher. All I really remember is that I was shocked when I heard the number. I'm sure there are more experienced people that can give some insight to specific patters for Little River. I have fished a lot of different beetle patterns that I have purchased over the years, and my limited experience is that I tend to do better with smaller beetles than really big ones. I don't know if you have seen the firefly patter that LRO sells, but you might want to try that. I have caught some decent fish, and had some pretty nice fish at least take a look at it on Little River.

I have had success with the disco beetle on every stream that I have thrown it. I also like it b/c it is easy for me to see. By the way, tie on a disco beetle and drop a green weenie off of it, and toss it under some over hanging trees against the bank.... enough said.

One last technique that can work on bigger browns with foam flies: Put on 3-4 big split shot and nymph with a foam beetle. Thats something that I didn't think about for a long time, but I was just messing around and tried it on the Davidson in N.C. one day and I actually caught fish on it. You just need a lot of shot to get it down. I have heard people say it a lot, "if your not getting bit, change depths before you change flies". Fish a beetle down deep.

I have to stop now, b/c I have no more secrets to give away.

Matt

Jack M.
06-11-2007, 12:45 PM
Just making an observation:

You fished a 5-weight line on a 3-weight rod, a 6-weight line on a 4-weight rod and "mixed things up" by using the heavier of the two rods (4-weight) with the lighter of the two lines (5-weight) and this is now your "go-to" combination.

In light of this, wouldn't it stand to reason that you may actually have best control and feel when you match the line weight to the rod class?

I understand overlining and underlining may have its place on rare occasions and with exceptionally fast and slow rods as the case may be, but generally, I think that matching the rod and line will give you better performance. Or am I just being a slave to fashion?

Vern
06-11-2007, 01:35 PM
I am personaly finding that for the Smokies that overlining works better for me. I mostly flip cast and roll cast. The Heavier line helps load the rod faster for the short little cast. For tailwaters I still like to use the line weight recomended for the rod and I like a faster action.

David Knapp
06-11-2007, 02:34 PM
I know a lot of people that overline and say it works great for them. Just be aware that the warranty on some companies rods specifically states that overlining causes extra stress on the rod and therefore voids the warranty. I doubt if you send a rod in for repair they'll ask whether you overlined or not:rolleyes: but it is something to think about... For those that like the feel provided by overlining, you can get the same effect if you find one of the old Orvis Superfine rods. Those are some wonderfully slow and responsive rods...:biggrin:

ttas67
06-11-2007, 11:55 PM
haha, this thread has gone from fishing report to photo essay to beetles to overlining.

david, that's just crazy them saying it "puts stress on the rod". what about when you catch a fish? doesn't that stress the rod?

scflyfisher, I tried a disco beetle today, no luck.

gerry, nice report, you're putting me to shame. next time I see you I'm gonna come down and spy on you to figure out what you're doing. last few days in the park have been tough on me.

Jswitow
06-12-2007, 09:40 PM
I believe is good for fast rods, some (most) line makers do the same thing with lines within a weight; ie: SA Mastery has the Trout (light) XPS (medium), GPX is a half line weight heavier than XPS and full line weight heavier than the Trout. I have an 8'-0, 4wt Reddington which loads well with the GPX or a DT. It is a stout 4 wt. All the rods I fish now for trout have the Trout line on them. I feel that when I go from the 3 to 4 or 5 or 6 that they are consistant and therefore less trouble to pick-up and use. The rods are all the same model in different lengths and weights, but with the same basic action. SA may have discontinued the XPS, not sure. I like a heavier line for throwing heavy nymphs and large indicators. With the indicator, nymph rig you need to open up your loop a little to stop the tailing loops.
Anyway this stuff is so open to personal interpretation and preference, if it feels good to you then do it. Of course this is not a morality discussion!
Best,
John

Jswitow
06-12-2007, 09:43 PM
Oh! as to the fishing; I had tons of refusals on my yellow offerings, I am pretty sure I should have dropped to 6X from the 5X I was using. I did catch some fish, but probably had 15 refusals to hookups. Usually fly is too large or tippet to heavy.
Best,
John

ttas67
06-13-2007, 12:17 AM
that's some really good info about SA lines. I've used a few different lines and have liked the SA the best. I currently have the trout line, but now knowing the difference believe I'll go with an xps or gpx next time.

rio makes a very nice line as well. I also have experience with orvis wonderline. it felt awesome at first, but went to crap pretty quickly. all my lighter lines are DT, I guess I can just turn them around, right?

line is one thing I always say don't skimp on, but I need to learn more about it, so I know what I'm actually buying! zach matthews has a podcast w/ SA line designer (I believe). pretty interesting.

Gerry Romer
06-26-2007, 11:42 PM
Just making an observation:

You fished a 5-weight line on a 3-weight rod, a 6-weight line on a 4-weight rod and "mixed things up" by using the heavier of the two rods (4-weight) with the lighter of the two lines (5-weight) and this is now your "go-to" combination.

In light of this, wouldn't it stand to reason that you may actually have best control and feel when you match the line weight to the rod class?

I understand overlining and underlining may have its place on rare occasions and with exceptionally fast and slow rods as the case may be, but generally, I think that matching the rod and line will give you better performance. Or am I just being a slave to fashion?

I probably didn't fully explain myself. By mixing things up I was referring to changing both the line weight and the rod/reel combination. My Avid 3 wt, matched with the BBS II and the 5wt Pocket Water line is a great setup for dry fly fishing and lightweight dry/dropper rigs. Unfortunately, for me it just doesn't have enough "backbone" for nymphing and/or heavier dry/dropper rigs. When I swapped the Mid-Arbor reel on my TFO Professional for the BBS II, I noticed a bit more sensitivity and a slightly better balance.

When I say that it's now my new "go-to" rod, I mean that it's a better multi-purpose rod/reel/line combination. I prefer the weight, balance and feel of the TFO with the BBS II to the TFO with the Mid-Arbor for working small mountain streams. Additionally, I know I can hike it in and have the flexibility to fish dries or nymphs or any combination. On those rare occasions when I can actually decide beforehand that I'm going to fish dries exclusively, then I prefer the Avid paired with the BBS II and either a 3 wt DT or the 5 wt Pocket Water. I especially like side arming it into tight cover and the feel and action of a 10" bow on the 3 wt rod.

I still prefer to overline my rods. I'm just getting a better feel for the rod/reel balance and a better understanding of my own personal fishing patterns. When I head up into the mountains, I usually will take a minimum of two rods and two reels to swap around and play with to see what works best on a given day on a given stream. I hope to some day settle on a simple working combination. Until then I guess I'll just continue to mix it up a bit. :biggrin:

Gerry Romer