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Jack M.
06-25-2007, 04:52 PM
Section 2.35
ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES AND
CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES
(a)(3)(i) The possession or consumption of an alcoholic
beverage and/or the possession of a bottle, can or other
receptacle containing an alcoholic beverage that is open, or
that has been opened, or whose seal is broken or the contents
of which has been partially removed is prohibited. This
alcohol prohibition includes all park areas within the park
boundary except: government owned housing, overnight
lodging facilities, designated picnic areas, and frontcountry
and backcountry campgrounds and shelters as identified in
the current Great Smoky Mountains Trail Map, the official
Great Smoky Mountains folder, and the current park
newspaper. The Superintendent may authorize the
possession and consumption of alcoholic beverages as part
of a special event.

ijsouth
06-25-2007, 08:50 PM
Good information - it's clear that a lot of people either don't know about this policy, or ignore it; we found more than one beer can along the stream we were fishing this past weekend, and it was far from one of the more crowded areas.

russ
06-26-2007, 08:13 AM
If I understand that, you are allowed to have alcohol in a back country camp site but you're not allowed to have it on the trail leading to the back country campsite unless it is completely un-opened. Once you're at the back country site you can drink it, but then you're not allowed to pack out your empty cans because they are opened and not allowed on the trails.

So how do you get the alcohol cans out?

PeteCz
06-26-2007, 08:51 AM
Russ, That's pretty funny. You are absolutely right on your interpretation. Talk about a poorly written regulation.

russ
06-26-2007, 09:18 AM
I guess you could argue that if the can is empty then the contents have not been partially removed but totally removed. Then you could pack out the empty can. This is just an assumption though and when dealing with the government any assumptions that use common sense and logic are to be taken at your own risk.

Your best bet is just not to drink in the park. then you know you'll be safe!

Where did you find those regulations Jack M?

jeffnles1
06-26-2007, 09:41 AM
So how do you get the alcohol cans out?

Throw them on the ground alongside the stream? :smile:

Unfortunately, that seems to be the answer a lot of folks seem to think is appropriate.

I fished up by elkmont and tremont over the past weekend and was pretty suprised at the lack of garbage I saw around the streams. It was quite refreshing. I always carry a plastic grocery bag when I fish just so I can pick up after other people when I fish and usually, it's pretty full by the time I leave. Last weekend, I had a couple pieces of paper, a small plastic bag that looked like something a leader would come in, a strike indicator (that ended up in my fly box) and a plastic spoon. Other than that, no major trash and that was quite a good thing.

I'm not one of the locals but I do try to always leave a place a little better than I found it.

Jeff

Jack M.
06-26-2007, 09:46 AM
I guess you could argue that if the can is empty then the contents have not been partially removed but totally removed. Then you could pack out the empty can. This is just an assumption though and when dealing with the government any assumptions that use common sense and logic are to be taken at your own risk.

Your best bet is just not to drink in the park. then you know you'll be safe!

Where did you find those regulations Jack M?

I don't think there is any ambiguity in the fact that it does not violate this regulation to carry a completely empty alcohol container or even a full and sealed container anywhere within the park. Once it is open and prior to it being completely empty, you need to be in a designated area or you violate the reg.

I cut and paste the regulation from the PDF file "2006 Compendium" that can be found here: http://www.nps.gov/grsm/parkmgmt/lawsandpolicies.htm

PeteCz
06-26-2007, 12:58 PM
"can or other receptacle containing an alcoholic beverage that is open, or that has been opened, or whose seal is broken or the contents of which has been partially removed is prohibited."

Jack, you're right. As long as the container is empty you can carry it out. It doesn't matter what it used to contain if it no longer contains any alcohol.

Of course this also means that you can only bring in containers that are unopened and leave with containers that are completely empty. So if you bring in a 1/5 of scotch, (seal unbroken, of course), you have to drink the whole thing before you can leave the campsite. Interesting.

Jack M.
06-26-2007, 01:11 PM
Pete the hard liquor dilemma is a difficulty with most "open container" laws and I can't say I've surveyed such ordinances to see if it has ever been satisfactorily handled in statutory language. However, I would suggest that in order to bring a bottle of liquor or even wine into or out of the park once it has been "unsealed," you should place it inside a box or bag and store it somewhere that would not appear to be immediately accessible for consumption. I think most Park Rangers would be reluctant to prosecute you in such an instance. Additionally, keep in mind that you do not surrender your rights under the 4th Amendment when entering the Park. They would need a pretty good reason to search inside boxes and bags, and if they have a good reason, you are probably in enough trouble that an open container violation is the least of your worries. Some people feel the 4th Amendment is as important as, let's say, the 2nd Amendment.

Thunderhead8
07-04-2007, 08:24 AM
Quote:

"Of course this also means that you can only bring in containers that are unopened and leave with containers that are completely empty. So if you bring in a 1/5 of scotch, (seal unbroken, of course), you have to drink the whole thing before you can leave the campsite. Interesting."

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