View Full Version : Elkmont Sat Sept 8, 2007

09-08-2007, 10:56 PM

Nice isn't it? I had a great day today, despite the obvious imbeciles who decided to do this. I ran in to this mess about a mile or so above Elkmont. It kills me to think that someone took the time to hike up there, then take the time to sit down and enjoy the river. Then when they are done they just left it like this.

Now for the more positive about the day. Well, almost positive because I managed to break my sunglasses. They were cheapos but still. How about the fishing you ask! Well, they took the fly pretty good this evening if you were able to present it drag free and with stealth. The water is back down again and it is tough fishing. I caught and released five bows, and they took the fly hard. I used a small yellow sally and the last fish took a larger orange stimulator. It was a very muggy afternoon but I was alone on the stream. I guess I'm right after all, most people are watching the game. I had a nice evening in the park but I sure wish people would bring their garbage back home.

09-08-2007, 11:21 PM
Are those bait containers, mixed up with the bottles? Man, that ticks me off.

09-09-2007, 09:25 AM
Hey Hans,

That's a pretty ugly scene, some people just don't give a hoot about the environment. Hard to understand for us folks that care about the Smokies and other areas. I'm glad you had a decent day on Elkmont. I am heading your way this Thursday to look for housing. Let me know if you want to hook up for some fishing on Sunday or possibly Sat. depending how the search goes.



09-09-2007, 09:47 AM
It's pretty sad these days that people can not pick up after themselves...... I hate to say it but I see this mainly where there is open fishing to live bait, etc.... I seldom see it in the fly fishing/artificial only areas...... Anyway I've started to carry a plastic garbage bag to haul out other peoples junk! What can you do?

Tennswede, my thanks for cleaning up after those folks....... Doug

Jack M.
09-09-2007, 11:27 AM
Since all the tourists kids are back in school, this must have been the work of locidiots.

09-09-2007, 11:56 AM
Careful Jack. There are still a large number of cars from non-Tennessee states appearing in the park. A number of these also have trash dumped on the side of the cars in the parking lots.

09-09-2007, 11:59 AM
Yeah, I usually carry a couple of plastic bags for the purpose of cleaning up. I don't get everything I see streamside but if I can get to it without risking life and limb I will try to carry it out. It is just so disheartening sometimes. I didn't put it on here for any kind of brownie points or anything. I also realize that most people on a board like this wouldn't do these kind of things anyway. I just thought it interesting to post this picture since it was over a mile up on the trail. I guess my point is; They took the time and effort to carry all this up there. There's was a paper bag a little further up belonging to this group also. I guess the bear had been in it since it was torn and I saw bear droppings in the vicinity. This is the same area where a bear was spotted last weekend.


I am doing an acid deposition sampling with TU on Saturday. I will be over in Cosby in the morning. I'm game for some fishing Saturday afternoon. Give me a call later this week and we can discuss. It all depends on if we are going to get any rain or not.

09-09-2007, 12:00 PM
Ijsouth: I also thought it was bait containers at first. It was cole slaw containers from a fast food joint.

David Knapp
09-09-2007, 12:29 PM
Hans, glad you were able to get out and that the fish are cooperative. I've got to get up to the park sometime soon, it has been way too long... It is really too bad that people litter like that. It always makes me upset to see scenes like this and unfortunately, they are only becoming more common...

09-09-2007, 01:52 PM
Ijsouth: I also thought it was bait containers at first. It was cole slaw containers from a fast food joint.

Yeah, after I posted that, I looked at it again - they almost look like the containers of egg-drop soup I get from my favorite Chinese place...talk about going out of the way just to litter.

We've found all sorts of junk streamside this summer - I bet someone could work a half-mile section of stream (pick any stream), and fill up a hefty bag full of garbage.

09-09-2007, 05:39 PM
That's a shame, kind of a contradiction to go the GSMNP to see the beauty and leave that crap behind!
After volunteering for the TU cleanup this spring, I was indeed shocked at the amount of trash we collected just on the roadways. I wish TU would have another cleanup this fall as the park could definitely use the help.

Glad you had a safe afternoon Hans! Iíll get back out there when the conditions improve.


09-10-2007, 09:07 AM
That's enough to tick off the good humor man! Lazy & thoughtless people. I always end up picking up other peoples trash when I leave an area.....whether its in the water or on the shoreline. These people need to remember to take nothing but pictures and leave nothing but footprints.

09-13-2007, 12:58 PM
Careful Jack. There are still a large number of cars from non-Tennessee states appearing in the park. A number of these also have trash dumped on the side of the cars in the parking lots.

Careful guys, an out of state car does not necesarily mean an idiot who's going to trash the park. I'm from Kentucky and my boy and I manage to fish the park three or so times every year. We have NEVER left a piece of trash in anything other than a trash can and have carried out a lot of trash from others.

It's a National Park and belongs to all citizens of the Untied States of America and is not the private fishing ground for the locals.

/rant off/ Sorry about the rant, but I have seen a definate "visitors are bad and locals are good" bias on this board. I've seen the phrase "touron" thrown around to describe anyone not from S. E. Tennessee regardless of who they are and let me assure you, not all of us from areas other than your back yard are "tourons" or trashing up the park.''

Again, sorry about the rant.


09-13-2007, 02:40 PM
Jeff, you are absolutely, 100% correct.

The term "Touron" has been used by several folks on the board in slightly different shades, but its mostly in reference to attitude, not latitude. Namely, its folks who come to the Smokies and mistreat the park, either through trash, noise pollution, disregard for speed limits, pestering the wildlife or any number of abuses to the park and those trying to enjoy it peacefully. I'm not sure what the exact numbers are, but there are quite a few folks from SE TN that would be considered "Tourons"

Anyone who mistreats the park is a "Touron" in my book. They think the park is there's alone and they can do what ever they please and could care less what impact their actions have on others. Unfortunately, its a statement that could be made about many folks whether they come to the park or not.

BTW, the term Tourist means "someone who travels for pleasure"; therefore all of us who go into the park are tourists...we just need to keep the "Moron" suffix off our actions.

:smile: my $.02

09-13-2007, 06:34 PM
Also, remember this works both ways, when some people say locidiots and some say tourons. I speak from experience, It doesn't matter where you are from some people litter and some don't. I have lived in Knoxville since 1994 and for the last eight years in my own home on a corner lot. I have to pick up trash in front of my house on a daily basis, enough said.

09-13-2007, 08:18 PM
Since I now own property in the area (officially, completed closing today via FedEx), I guess I no longer qualify as strictly a tourist, but I have been on both sides of the fence, so to speak. We fished a lot on Straight Fork this Summer; since it is more than a little out of the way, and separated from the main "tourist corridor", I would suspect that a lot of the activity there is by locals. We've picked up a lot of beer cans from there, so I would have to say that they probably came from locals - I can picture teenagers "parking" in that area easily. So, littering is an ingrained attitude, whether done by locals or tourists. Down here in New Orleans, the tourists take the locals' lead - it's commonplace for people to pitch their trash out the window, etc...up until a few years ago, the success of each Mardi Gras was determined by the volume of trash picked up from the streets on Ash Wednesday. We live in a disposable society - things aren't built to last, and the solution is always to pitch it and get a new one. Unfortunately, our lovely park suffers as a result. I don't know what the solution is - all I can do is bring a trash bag with me and pick up as I go along.

09-14-2007, 09:18 AM
:frown: I have traveled in 45 of our 50 states. Trashy people live everywhere. Tennessee is certainly no exception. Some states, like Oregon, do a better job of keeping things clean, but it just gets down to the attitude of the citizens. There aren't enough police or park rangers to ensure trash is not dumped, and given the lack of respect for law and life in our society, most people are afraid to say anything to trash tossers. I suspect most of them do the same in their home. The only answer is what most of you have indicated. We just have to clean up their mess. The good news is that the vast majority of the park remains clean and beautiful. Given the amount of visitors, it is remarkable it is so clean.:smile:

Paula Begley
09-14-2007, 05:10 PM
Gosh...Byron and I just got back from a fishing trip and I was reading up on the board to see what happened while we were away. I started reading this thread and gave a great big groan wondering what was going to be said that might be offensive.

We all love this place, the Great Smoky Mountains. We all abhor trash throwers (I won't even tell you what I hauled out of the Park last weekend - I seriously wanted gloves). And I think all of us equally should dislike name calling. To me, it is unnecessary and just inflames sensibilities. I understand the desire to create labels for a certain type of behavior, but those behaviors are not limited to one group or to one type of visitor to the Park.

So, let me thank those of you who did, for bringing it all back into perspective. Thanks.


09-14-2007, 08:30 PM
Paula and all. I guess I'm going to have to clarify my post. My english is not that good since I'm not a native speaker. I meant to say that I dislike both "labels" locidiots or tourons. In no way did I mean to give the impression that I use any of these two labels. Sorry if I stirred it up.

Paula Begley
09-14-2007, 09:23 PM
Hans, I was not meaning to imply that you said anything offensive.

I was referring to the fact that we all agree that trash in our Park is offensive. We can agree on that without calling names, because I would hazard a guess that visitors and locals alike litter in the Park.

I was also referring to the fact that this thread could have gotten out of hand, and I was happy to see you handled yourselves beautifully in keeping it on topic and did not get derailed by labels or blame throwing.


09-16-2007, 11:04 AM
I am from IN and have been fishing the park for around 16 years now. Usually my wife and I visit, she is also a flyfisher person, 3-4 times per year. As Paula and others stated, trash comes in many sizes and it is not always the visitors that have created the problems. Trash could also be lack of respect to others as well as the environment. I used to go to Berrien Springs in MI to fish the St Joe river, a great steelhead as well as brown trout stream. After my last visit about 9 years ago, I could not stand the trash in around the stream area, fish that had been clean, food wrappers, cans and many items I would not mention on line. For the most part, the cars all had MI license plates and If I was a MI resident I would be very upset my area looked like this. This does not mean the MI people have no respect for their enviroment, it means trash comes in all sizes.
I was in Townsend during the week of Labor Day and I dont have to mention the garbage I saw on the Little River, Middle Prong and other areas visited. Some of the garbage I saw on the trail close to Abrams Falls was discusting. unable to get to some of it. One of my main concerns was the number of people that would enter the water to swim, dive and play while people were fishing. I feel this has become a major problem in the Smokies over the past several years, DISREPECT. While fishing on Middle Prong on Sat Sept 1, there were numerous visitors that had the disrepect to jump in the water around various areas that did not help the fishing or the enviroment of the streams in the park. I have not seen any mention of what this type of activity will do to the watershed in years to come. I did notice that for the most part, they had TN plates on their cars. I do not hold this against the state of TN, I do not feel this represents the state of TN, it just represents the fact that people only care about themselves and not others.
I am not offended by the fact of being a visitor in the original email, however I feel one should have all of the facts reviewed properly prior to making a statement. I will be back in the Smokies later in Oct for a long weekend of fishing in the park and I do not expect anything different, I just hope to find a little more solitude.
Here come the leaf people.

09-16-2007, 04:43 PM

I understand your dilemma, the only remedy to the problem with overcrowding and such is to choose your fishing destination according to the season. I.e. lower elevation areas with ample road access is pretty much a no no during the warmer months. I know this from experience, so I avoid these areas during those times. I know this is frustrating but we have to remember that from a swimmers, or any other users point of view, we are the intruders. Fly fishermen or any other fishermen does not have automatic right to the water any more than any other user if it is done in a legal way. I don't mean to say that you are not considerate of others but we must not forget that the park belongs to all users when they use it in a legal way. I can agree that most non fishing persons don't show the proper stream etiquette, I believe they do that out of not knowing the proper way of things.

09-19-2007, 09:36 PM
People that leave trash behind should be banned from beautiful places like the park. I am a construction super. people have become too used to just dropping stuff and others pick up after them ie me. It is job security.