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View Full Version : New to Clinch and want to catch big fish!


joeisfly
09-18-2007, 11:11 PM
This last weekend was my first trip to the Clinch after being here in Knox for 7 years. I didn't have a clue! Did some research on the net and came up with a good since of what to expect. Even drove up the evening before and scoped out the place. - My day was full fishing from 8am till about 4pm. I started at the Dam moving down river because there were 5 dudes lined up catching one after another with I think salmon eggs or spinner?? My first catch was a double a rainbow on the end and a native Brooke on the dropper. That was fun! after that I moved down river catching small fish on midges and emergers #18-#20. Everywhere I went there were at least 5 people fishing around. Made it down below Weir and fished for about hr caught 3 small trout. 2 other guys were catching large trout with salmon eggs left and right. - How can I catch those same fish without going to salmon eggs and worms?:mad:

bcunnin1
09-18-2007, 11:31 PM
Go down to the river to the Church, the fish are much bigger down on that part of the river. It will be less crowded. Some will tell you to use midges(and you can not go wrong with a BHPT) but, I prefer to use a Woolly Bugger and just stand directly above a run or 45 degrees off it and just strip the WB back threw the run. I have had a lot of success with that method. Ben.

Oh yeah and just to specify I use the Orvis Woolly Buggers with a bead head and with out it. Both are pretty deadly in the olive green color.

RuningWolf
09-20-2007, 12:36 PM
This last weekend was my first trip to the Clinch after being here in Knox for 7 years. I didn't have a clue! Did some research on the net and came up with a good since of what to expect. Even drove up the evening before and scoped out the place. - My day was full fishing from 8am till about 4pm. I started at the Dam moving down river because there were 5 dudes lined up catching one after another with I think salmon eggs or spinner?? My first catch was a double a rainbow on the end and a native Brooke on the dropper. That was fun! after that I moved down river catching small fish on midges and emergers #18-#20. Everywhere I went there were at least 5 people fishing around. Made it down below Weir and fished for about hr caught 3 small trout. 2 other guys were catching large trout with salmon eggs left and right. - How can I catch those same fish without going to salmon eggs and worms?:mad:



There are plenty of larger trout in the upper two miles of the river. Many large trout (20+ in) are caught using midge and black fly patterns as well. Float tubes in the wier pool can produce some very nice fishing days as well as some of the runs from the Dam downstream to the weir pool

This time most fish leave the Clinton area and start staging more upriver for the attempted spawn run

Something else to keep in mind is the majority of the river flows across private land. The land you stand on in most spots in the river belongs to someone. He could be the bait or fly fisherman you are standing near (or close relative or friend) especially in the lower river. They do not take kindly towards off handed comments to the method people fish. Keep in mind most of the landowners do not mind most people fishing in the river, some do take exception to people accessing from their property. Also keep in mind most of the owners are opposed to special regs and the tensions are surely to rise as has occurred in the past

As a note most big fish are caught on bait and lures period. They represent 83% of the fisherman who pay the same for the privilege to fish as you and I do. There are also plenty of days where there are plenty of them in the Clinton area as well. As more learn that there is access from the church the numbers will start to increase again

Flat Fly n
09-21-2007, 07:37 PM
The kid wants some info not a lecture on streamside manners. Must you continue this rant about landowners, worm fishermen and the likes. Who cares how someone fishes, just that they buy a license, keep only their limit, and obey common rules for all. In twenty years only one flyfisherman ever ran up to a hole I was catching fish out of, but you and I together don't have enough fingers and toes for the time spin/bait guys almost drown me from their wake coming into my hole/run/ or shoal.

LUCRO has had their turn managing this river for their own use. I say if LUCRO wants to manage the river TWRA should quit stocking trout in the river and let LUCRO buy the trout, distrubute the licence, and let the people have it. There were NO TROUT in this river before 1938 and the building of Norris Dam, so return it to its original state, just like the GSMNP and brook trout restoration. All hail the smallmouth bass, darter, and carp! Slots limits and intense management work all over the country (and this state in the other tailwaters) and they can work believe it or not on the Clinch.

BTW....83% is old data and was collected if I remember on one day. I am willing to take you in a canoe from Norris dam on a SAT/SUN of your choice to 61 bridge. What kind of sandwich should I pack? I will row and you count, if the number of baiters is 83% or more I will pay you $200 for your time. Fair enough? That data is older than this kid was that was asking for help!

Give it up, progress is coming! As I have said in previous post....LUCRO has controlled this river and the regulations for the past 15 years. If this present plan does not work in 2-3years return to the old put/grow/take.

Flat Fly'n

dps260
09-21-2007, 10:27 PM
Amen Brother. See you in Gatlinburg at the meeting with TWRA. Will LUCRO just give management a chance to prove what has been proven time and time again in other rivers and tailwaters.
I would also like to see the limit reduced. How long has it been at 7? How did the number originally get to be 7? Anything to give the fish a chance to grow. What a great resource we all have in the Clinch. Lets try something different that has been proven in this state and others. Better management improves the quality of the fishing experience for all types of fisherman.

RuningWolf
09-22-2007, 01:44 AM
Flat Fly’n says “The kid wants some info not a lecture on streamside manners. “

Did I not give him some info? Did you what I posted? Is there something wrong with giving someone some friendly advise that may prevent him from having problems? Many people are tired of the disrespect shown to other angling groups.

“Must you continue this rant about landowners, worm fishermen and the likes. Who cares how someone fishes, just that they buy a license, keep only their limit, and obey common rules for all.”

Seems you and some others do as they keep getting ran down, called names, denigrating remarks made about, etc. It si only fair that some of the other side gets told, is it not?

“In twenty years only one flyfisherman ever ran up to a hole I was catching fish out of, but you and I together don't have enough fingers and toes for the time spin/bait guys almost drown me from their wake coming into my hole/run/ or shoal.”

I have had much more disrespect shown by fly fisherman and have had it happen with a amazing regulaity than I have bait or spin fisherman.

”LUCRO has had their turn managing this river for their own use.”

That is a good one. I am sure TWRA will disagree with you. The only requirement I know of for LUCRO membership is that you believe regulations should be based on science.

“I say if LUCRO wants to manage the river TWRA should quit stocking trout in the river and let LUCRO buy the trout, distrubute the licence, and let the people have it.”

If the agency wishes suffer the consequences of stopping stocking the Clinch then so be it.

“There were NO TROUT in this river before 1938 and the building of Norris Dam, so return it to its original state, just like the GSMNP and brook trout restoration.”

This is correct to a degree but some tributaries of the Clinch did have wild trout in them at one time as did the upper reaches of the Clinch itself


“All hail the smallmouth bass, darter, and carp! “

The area that is now the Clinch river trout fishery was once a bass, crappie, carp, walleye, bluegill etc fishery. It still would make a fine walleye fishery without the trout

“Slots limits and intense management work all over the country (and this state in the other tailwaters) and they can work believe it or not on the Clinch.”

No one has said it does not raise the number of large fish and thus create an artificial trophy fishery on a artificial fishing river. Many do not see any need for change as there is plenty of big fish in the river. Per shocking and creel studies.

“BTW....83% is old data and was collected if I remember on one day.”

So the 2006 creel data is old!!!!! No where has it ever been taken over one day. Perhaps you should reread all the reports.

“I am willing to take you in a canoe from Norris dam on a SAT/SUN of your choice to 61 bridge. What kind of sandwich should I pack? I will row and you count, if the number of baiters is 83% or more I will pay you $200 for your time.”

No way does a one day trip get a cross section of the fishery over the seven days it is used and over the many months and at various times along the river. That is before you consider different flows and the differences in fishing styles then as well. That is why TWRA and others do multiple sampling periods at different times and different days of the week over months so as to get a good cross sampleAs a note the sampling methods TWRA uses are recognized as the standard protocol nationwide.

We normally fish from daylight until the water gets to high or it gets dark which ever comes first. The numbers vary greatly due to time as to what type of fishing is going on. I have been at Clinton and Millers Island both and been outnumbered 20-1 by bait and spin fisherman.

The percentage of fly fisherman on the Clinch has remained according to all surveys including the 06 creel report at 17%. 100-17 does still equal 83. That fact has been well documented and noted by the agency. By the way the report also showed the Clinch for that year had the 2nd highest catch rate ever recorded in Tenn as well as they size of the fish had increased

At some point in the not to distant future I will respond to some of what was posted in another section about some issues.

Now tell me why the Clinch should have special regs that the majority of the users by past surveys do not want. After all 4 of the 6 tailwaters in East Tn already have them. The Smokies and National Forest have them and most fisheries in the surrounding states have them. As the Clinch is primarily a local fishery and most of the fishermen do not travel to other areas for their experience. Why should they have to be under regulations they do not want?

If you feel the need to respond to the above questions please start a post in the management thread so Paula will not get a headache deciding if this thread belongs here or there after all it started as a question about the fishing with replies about fishing

lar
09-22-2007, 10:57 AM
Running Wolf-

Let me guess.... You are a biat fisher? While I have nothing against bait fishing, all of my bad experiences on the Clinch have been with bait fishers. In my 10+ years of fishing on the Clinch, I have never seen a Fly Fisherman leaving with over the creel limit, never has my space been invaded by and never have I been cused by a fly fisher.

The Clinch needs regulations to protect the future health of the river. As mentioned above in one of the posts; as more people learn of the church access we will see more and more people fishing, thus more fish leaving the river.

We should all be thinking of the best intrest of the river, not your personal intrest. Do you think Deer and Turkey hunters "wanted" regulations? Probably not, the regulations have led to increased popualtions and over all health of the populations. This would be true for the Clinch. The point of the Clinch being a "local" fishery has no relavance. "Local" holes need to be protected too.

Your name Running Wolf suggests an Indian heritage. Do you not believe in the Indian ways of protecting the land and it's inhabitants, or did you think the name sounded cool?

RuningWolf
09-22-2007, 02:00 PM
Lar I will respond latter in the Fisheries Management & Biology (http://littleriveroutfitters.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=89) section as your questions primarily fall into that category. So if you see a header that says lar do not think I am calling you out it will be to get your attention. I just wanted to let you know I saw you post and will get back to you

I will also as I have stated earlier be responding to some other posts in that section in the not to distant future

Byron Begley
09-22-2007, 05:36 PM
Flat & RW,

You guys are my friends and I do love to read your debate. I do want to remind everyone to let TWRA know how you feel about changing the regulations. It is important that they get your comments in writing, pro or con.

Byron

twra.comment@state.tn.us

RuningWolf
09-22-2007, 07:24 PM
Flat & RW,

You guys are my friends and I do love to read your debate. I do want to remind everyone to let TWRA know how you feel about changing the regulations. It is important that they get your comments in writing, pro or con.

Byron

twra.comment@state.tn.us

My thesis has been sent to TWRA

As I said this debate needs moving to the other section and I will respond to some of what has been posted there. I’ll bet you a cold coke that no matter what happens Oct. 24 that this issue will not be settled then, no matter what TWRC votes. Now what say you ;)

I am a "biat" fisherman LOL

joeisfly
09-23-2007, 02:04 AM
Well, guess I have alot to learn about the Clinch and its future. Thanks for all the input an + +. Sorry, if I came across as looking down on bait/spin fishing I'm not. I tie my own flies and enjoy seeing them catch fish. Just wanted some tid bits from you all. I'm headed back out today and using woolybuggers and others.

I had a wonderfull time at the Clinch! I was very respectfull to others and the river and expect others to do the same. I'm sure you guys do as well. I'll let you know when I catch those big-N-s.

Flying Trout
09-23-2007, 09:32 AM
Glad to have you to the board and hope you have much luck on the river. Sorry that you stepped in the middle of a passionate debate/topic on your first post. I hope you got all the information you needed and keep posting. Show some pics and reports if you have any.

UofMontanaAlum
09-23-2007, 09:41 AM
JoeIsFly,

If you are ever looking for someone to hit the Clinch with, a buddy and I are there almost every weekend, both Saturday and Sunday. Shoot an email to ScottJPaulson@gmail.com.

UMA

RuningWolf
09-23-2007, 10:13 AM
Well, guess I have alot to learn about the Clinch and its future. Thanks for all the input an + +. Sorry, if I came across as looking down on bait/spin fishing I'm not. I tie my own flies and enjoy seeing them catch fish. Just wanted some tid bits from you all. I'm headed back out today and using woolybuggers and others.

I had a wonderfull time at the Clinch! I was very respectfull to others and the river and expect others to do the same. I'm sure you guys do as well. I'll let you know when I catch those big-N-s.

My wife and I have seen and experienced a few near horror stories that don’t need to be. I meant the warning as friendly advice not a lecture. I know all but the foolish few even if they disagree keep their opinions to themselves but some just cannot seem to help themselves and that is from all types of fisherman.

We use to take lots of sandwich meat and all the fixings and invite everyone around regardless of fishing types to come eat. It developed some good friendships between various fishing groups. There was some good discussions on fishing and life in general. Some good friendships where made. After that most bait fisherman would alert us to any poaching and we would call TWRA or others who had cell phones that they where aware of on the river, with good descriptions given to the agency we saw several violators apprehended. Some may have not been caught that weekend but they came looking the next for them as a rule.

The advice given you about the woolly boogers is good as well as what I told you about the weir pool and up river. There is some good water below the shoals at the weir dam as well between it and Millers Island some of it is wadeable but watch where you go and leave before the water arrives.

Realtyman
09-23-2007, 12:47 PM
joeisfly: Never fished the Clinch but I have wanted to for awhile now. Since the Caney is not fishing well, I am looking East. I have a liitle experience with big trout though. It's not easy! I know of a handfull of people that can catch them on a consistent basis. I'm talking 20" plus on fly gear, consistently.

The best advice I'm not qualified to give is to learn the river. I'm talking about the terrain under the surface, know it like the back of your hand. Walk it, if you can't get somebody to help you with it.

Learn to read the water and where the fish hold, as it changes over and over throughout the day depending on the generation and it's schedule. I am of the opinion that the big boys are found in very similar conditions whether we are talking about the White in Arkansas or the Clinch in TN.

The best water conditions I have found on a tailwater that produce large fish on the fly? Falling water when they turn off the generators and the flow subsides but the river is still full of water:biggrin:

I won't even get into the moon phases, fasting, and pure blind luck!

I am excited to see that we are back on topic. Nothing ticks me off worse than to see a thread get hijacked by people that know better!

lar
09-23-2007, 02:12 PM
Running Wolf-

I see you found my spelling error, "biat".

Please don't get me wrong the river is there for all fishermen, fly or bait, to enjoy. We all need to be looking towards the best interest of our TN fisheries. I look forward to more debate on this post. Did not mean to sound like I was "attacking" you. I am very passionate about the Clinch subject. I look forward to your future post.

Hope I did not offend you or any others on the post.

RuningWolf
09-23-2007, 02:57 PM
Running Wolf-

I see you found my spelling error, "biat".

Please don't get me wrong the river is there for all fishermen, fly or bait, to enjoy. We all need to be looking towards the best interest of our TN fisheries. I look forward to more debate on this post. Did not mean to sound like I was "attacking" you. I am very passionate about the Clinch subject. I look forward to your future post.

Hope I did not offend you or any others on the post.

I was having fun with that “biat” I knew what you meant. My spelling and grammar are not the best. I also knew you did not mean it as an attack. It may be a few days before I respond but I will when I have the time as I want to throw some info your way and it will take a little while to compose.

Flat Fly n
09-24-2007, 03:55 PM
RW,
Without writing a "thesis" please just answer this simple question....Do you seriously believe that the Clinch is the ONLY tailwater in TN were just locals fish it on a regular basis? So the other 5 tailwaters in the state(with the Clinch being the most fished according to TWRA) deserve regulations and the Clinch's policies should be mandated by LUCRO with threats of suing to get their way, by a $300-400 an hour attorney? Look him up, this guy works for a law firm in Ktown that defends against malpractice suits. These are not your typical ambulance chasers. "Proven by science?" I guess every state that manages salt/freshwater fisheries with a slot limit is wrong according to you and LUCRO. Please. I may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night!


JOEiSFLY,
May I also go along with Realtyman on learning river structure, runs and areas between the rocks and shoals that hold big fish. Read/fish a tailwater as you would a small stream and you will be successful. 6x-7x tippet, long 15' leaders, and small indicators that are not bright pink or orange or anyother color that sticks out like a sore thumb. Dress in drab colors. Big fish don't get big by being dumb. Also look at the macroinvertabrates, the scuds, sowbugs, midges, little red rockworm, caddis, and of course the mayfles(although limited in species, not in number per say.

Byron Begley
09-24-2007, 06:21 PM
RW,

You build those beautiful cane fly rods and fish with "biat" with them? When did you start doing that? :biggrin:


Lets start a new thread in Fisheries Biology and Management.

Byron

RuningWolf
09-24-2007, 10:06 PM
Byron I might even build spin roads out of cane and definitely own a few that I do use on occasion, but I throw lures with them. Someone we both know may try to take them back if he found bait on them. But who knows some day I might use some bait again. I don’t rule that out As a note I have a couple old bait surf rods in cane is well



I also own a very special “plastic” 10 ft rod and so does my wife, who uses hers a lot more than I do. But mine gets its share depending on how I am planning to fish, weather, etc.

I had asked one to respond to me in the appropriate section and will respond to him and others in the thread that is already started latter (in the "Fisheries Management & Biology (http://littleriveroutfitters.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=89) section). I will also make a special response to lar there as I promised

Realtyman
09-24-2007, 10:16 PM
If anybody's got any info to help out with catching a 20" on a #20, then please jump on here, since other people can't seem to post in the appropriate section.

Hey Byron, how long you gonna let your two friends hijack this thread on top of a new guy that's trying to learn something. Put up , or shut up!:confused:

joeisfly
09-24-2007, 11:54 PM
You guys crack me up! I love it! You can defiantly tell who is passionate about what they love. Look now you have got me interested in what’s going on. And no I don't have an opinion yet but hang in there. Thanks for the much-needed info! Also, I'll prob. take someone up on the partner deal - just will need to schedule it in.

Thanks again guys!

RuningWolf
09-25-2007, 12:14 AM
You guys crack me up! I love it! You can defiantly tell who is passionate about what they love. Look now you have got me interested in what’s going on. And no I don't have an opinion yet but hang in there. Thanks for the much-needed info! Also, I'll prob. take someone up on the partner deal - just will need to schedule it in.

Thanks again guys!

Go with UMont if you can. I think he has some things figured out by some other posts of his and I think he can teach you a thing or two.

You know we could have talked about something less controversial, like Tennessee Football

Flat Fly n
09-27-2007, 07:25 PM
Realtyman,
I used to and I can name about 10 other guys that fished that river religiously in the late 80"s and 90's that caught fish 18-22' about every 10th fish landed! It WAS an incredible fisheries, it isn't anymore. That's why we are all so passionate about this and so upset when one group of individuals has done nothing to help the river just threaten to sue everytime the boogy man says the bad word "regulations".

I will move to the appropriate links.

Flat Fly'n