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CinciVol
02-25-2008, 02:39 PM
I went for a hike up to Indian Flats falls this weekend (beautiful, btw) and I remembered that they are going to eradicate all of the trout on Lynn Camp some time this year to make it an all brookie stream (there is a long, informative thread about it from last January on this board). Does anyone know when this is scheduled to happen? Any special rules prior to the poisoning?

pineman19
02-25-2008, 09:13 PM
Hello Cincivol,

I believe the treatment is scheduled for late summer, early fall. They are supposed to have a special reg. harvest for the rainbows and browns before they treat Lynn Camp. The regs will be the same as far as using single hook lures and live bait won't be allowed. I think you'll be able to keep as many bows and browns as you want, as long as you use follow the other regs. The Little River Chapter of TU is going to be assisting with this project, including people helping on the special harvest periods.

Hope this helps,

Neal

ijsouth
02-25-2008, 09:31 PM
Pineman...I would add to what you said above - from what I understand, not only can you keep as many non-brookie trout as you like, you MUST keep all fish. At least, that was the pattern on Sams Creek, according to the park service's white paper. I think there will be a check-in point, and the fish will be measured, catalogued, etc.

pineman19
02-25-2008, 10:43 PM
Cincivol,

Here is a pdf on the restoration methods and assessment for Sams Creek which is a tributary of Thunderhead Prong. They will be using brookies form Sams Creek to restock Lynn Camp after the browns and bows have been removed.


http://www.nps.gov/grsm/parkmgmt/upload/Sams-Creek-Report.pdf

mtnman2888
02-26-2008, 07:51 AM
Thanks for the link pineman, that was a very informative read.

Craig

CinciVol
02-26-2008, 08:52 AM
Very interesting. Thanks for the great info guys. That would be really cool if they can establish such a large, lower elevation creek for brookies.

Rog 1
02-26-2008, 10:12 AM
I can remember when they tried to fish out the middle prong many years ago using the same methods...keep all but brookies no matter size or number....couldn't do it....what did happen was the next year the size of the average fish caught up there jumped from 6-7" to 7-8"....guess that is why they are going to poison the stream.....will be interesting to see if it works the way they say it will.

Sweepercts
02-26-2008, 10:48 AM
Hi,

I am a newer member here and saw the posting on Sams Creek. I was wondering if anybody could point me to any history on this creek. My name is Chuck Sams and my family comes from western NC and Eastern TN and I was just curious if there was anything unique about how the stream got it's name.

I visited the park last year but didn't get a chance to explore Sams Creek.


Chuck

(http://www.thecedarsweeper.com)

ijsouth
02-26-2008, 11:43 AM
Wow...that's pretty neat if it's named after your family. Geneology is fascinating - I got into it a number of years ago, and found one crypt in a cemetary in New Orleans that had 11 members of my family in it - my dad knew nothing of it. I don't know the history of the name of that stream, but I bet someone on the board does.

I think the "open season" on bows before they close the stream will be just to get an idea of how fishing pressure effects fish populations. In the white paper on Sams Creek, the indications were that it wasn't much of an effect.

Rog 1
02-26-2008, 12:04 PM
Always interesting to see how names and places come together....almost 50 years ago I caught my first trout on a fly wading in Porter's Creek over in Greenbrier....almost 16 years ago my son was born and given the name Porter...this was his grandfather's middle name and he was from Sevierville...later learned that Porter was his grandmother's maiden name and that he had a brother that lived in the Greenbrier area before the Park was born....figure there has to be a connection there in more than one way.

ijsouth
02-26-2008, 12:34 PM
That's pretty cool, too...I've seen the same trends in my family. Isn't Dolly Parton's family from the Greenbrier area too? I think I read that somewhere.

pineman19
02-26-2008, 06:05 PM
ijsouth,

You are correct about the Parton family being rooted in the Greenbriar area. They lived along Little Bird Branch, which is up from the Greenbriar trailhead for the Old Settlers Trail. The Parton Cemetery is located along Little Bird Branch as well. I am getting this info from the Hiking Trails of the Smokies book. That are was referred to as Parton -Town by the locals. I need to hike into this area, the trail eventually gives a good view of the Greenbriar Pinnacle and the Cat Stairs can sometimes be seen in winter. Interesting stuff, but I'll still be glad when the fishing heats up in the Smokies. Getting weary of working on gear, building fly rods, etc. I got the Jones bad for some wild trout.

Neal

milligan trout degree
02-26-2008, 07:26 PM
Is there gonna be regulation about cleaning the fish caught out of lynn camp during the extermination of the bows? I'd hate to hike up the stream and just see fish heads and entrails laying about everywhere, and I'd hate to run across the feeding bears and copperheads it would attract.

Rog 1
02-27-2008, 10:16 AM
The traditional old time way of eating these little trout is to leave the heads on....while this was mainly to insure the fish met the minimum length requirements my grandfather always said he did it to use the eye sockets for finger holds while eating the fish like corn on the cobb....imagine my shock as a youngster looking at a plate of trout with heads still on and no eyes...the "inards" were usually tossed back into the stream for the crayfish to fatten up on to better feed the big boys....I have only found the mess you described on one occasion when my cousin and I spooked several locals up in the Three Forks area who were poaching and had clearly exceeded their limit on trout from the looks of the cleaning area...I can also assume that part of the process this time will be that the biologists will want to measure and count all the fish coming out so that any cleaning will probably take place elsewhere.....for those that practice catch and release exclusively and have never sampled one of these wild trout you are in for a treat.

sammcdonald
02-27-2008, 11:16 AM
actually the parton cemetery is off trail from the old settlers trail....chris parton, who married an emert and joined two of the older families in greenbriar, is buried there. the best access to the cat stairs is from the old barnes farm area which was directly below the pinnacle and, again, accessed from off trail. i climbed (correct wording) the cat stairs when i was younger....but i wouldn't do it again.

jross
02-27-2008, 11:50 AM
how will they poison a whole stream without damaging downstream? And can they actually keep the other trout out? Or did all these questions get answered already? And is the whole idea just to get Brookies back and thriving? Would a Brookie get good sized if it doesn't have to compete?

ijsouth
02-27-2008, 12:05 PM
The poision in question dissipates rather quickly, and there will be a barrier chemical applied to prevent it from moving downstream of the treatment area. Such treatments only work on streams with a barrier waterfall, like Lynn Camp has.

The Park Service has a mandate to protect and maintain native flora and fauna; rainbows and browns were stocked, and are therefore "invasive". Actually, brookies are doing quite well in the park, but their range is somewhat restricted to the higher streams, which tend to be a little too acidic for rainbows. The problem is, if you go up high enough, the streams get too acidic for even the brookies, so the goal is to try to get them re-established in lower elevation streams. Also, the lower the stream, the bigger it is, and therefore supporting more biomass - which translates into bigger fish, although bigger is relative - the Smokies just don't have the fertility of other areas to produce huge fish on a consistent basis.

gg1262
02-27-2008, 06:20 PM
I don't think I've ever made it up to the Lynn Camp prong. In general terms, what's the fishing like up there (ie, boulder hopping to plung pools or so tight you just set your fly on the water from behind a tree?). If it is going to be cleaned out anyway, I wouldn't mind assisting during our spring trip. The father in law is always on me to bring home some eaters!

Greg

pineman19
02-27-2008, 06:34 PM
Hello Greg,

Lynn is fairly easy to fish when compared to the Greenbriar or the W. Prong of the Little Pigeon, especially above the Cascades. I really enjoy fishing this stream and if you don't mind hiking a ways I would recommend hiking up to where Panther Creek enters the stream. Very pretty area, and the fishing is good as well. The gradient is not steep and boulder hopping is minimal, more like stone stepping in most areas. The bows are eager on this stream and I always seem to catch a few fish even after I haven't done well on nearby stream.

Enjoy,

Neal

gg1262
02-27-2008, 07:11 PM
Thanks Neal! Sounds like I can now add one more stream to the list that I must get to! I'm beginning to think more than one trip to the Smokies a year is quickly becoming in order!!

nvr2L8
02-27-2008, 09:04 PM
Greg,

Nothing like pictures to understand what pineman was describing.

First, stone stepping on Middle Prong. This was taken yesterday when the stream was pretty full but you can see that, while there are some fairly big boulders, there are also a lot of rocks to walk.
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd70/nvr2l8_chuck/MiddleProng007.jpg

Here's another shot from a bridge over Middle Prong.
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd70/nvr2l8_chuck/MiddleProng004.jpg

As opposed to boulder hopping on the West Prong of the Little Pigeon (taken earlier this month).
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd70/nvr2l8_chuck/WPLPScout003.jpg

pineman19
02-27-2008, 09:14 PM
Thanks for the visual support Charlie. Nice to see a good flow of water on this stream.

Neal

gg1262
02-28-2008, 09:57 PM
Hey Charlie B, thanks for the pics. The stream looks good. Another question, if I may......Turns out a good friend is getting married in Gatlinburg the last weekend in March and the wife and I are considering witnessing the blessed event. Lovely would like to do a little hiking in the park. Being the everloving husband that I am, I immediately began looking at the trail map and I am thinking the Middle Prong Trail would make for a lovely afternoon. What can I say, I'm a giver!!! The question I have is how difficult is the hiking on the Middle Prong Trail? Does it remain close to the Middle Prong most of the time? Back before we had kiddos she would hike along with me and read a book on a rock while I would fish. Maybe we can go back in time, even if it is just for a little while.

Thanks again for the pictures. My fishing Jones is at an all time high right now!!! I'm going to set down at the bench and tie some more!!!!

Greg

nvr2L8
02-28-2008, 11:32 PM
Greg,

Middle Prong Trail is actually an old road bed built during logging days. It is wide with a relatively gradual grade most of the time. It is a very pleasant walk for at least 3 miles either directly by the river or within earshot of the river. All along the river, there are great spots to fish with large flat rocks that are ideal for one to read, watch, enjoy the surroundings while another fishes. Just a beautiful place.

This whole area along the trail obviously saw a flurry of activity during the logging days. If you know where to look, there are remains of old structures, bridge pilings, etc. Just under 2 miles up the trail on the right side of the trail (away from the river) there is a large rhodadendron by itself with a fallen tree behind and a small foot trail back to the fallen tree. Behind there, you will see this:
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd70/nvr2l8_chuck/MiddleProng006.jpg

Just one of the remnants of another time.

CinciVol
02-29-2008, 08:57 AM
Greg, I think you'll like the Middle PRong trail because not only is is a relatively gentle grade and close to the stream most of the time, but it's nice and wide. I'd say at least 4 people could walk side by side and not be crowded. A very nice trail for strolling and chatting, and hey, if a fish is rising, no harm in throwing a fly its way...

Rog 1
02-29-2008, 11:53 AM
Another great hiking trail is the Little River trail above Elkmont....same type as Tremont...old road bed that follows the river up to the fork with Fish Camp Prong....water is a little bigger than Lynn Camp Prong but will make for a great outing....also a little closer to Gatlinburg.

gg1262
02-29-2008, 03:31 PM
Hey, thanks to Charlie B, Rog1, and CinciVol (as in Cincinnati like me?)! You guys were very helpful. I believe I know what I need to now to be sure both lovely and I have a great day!

jeffnles1
03-01-2008, 12:23 AM
GG,
you in Cincy? I'm in Florence, KY.

Jeff

gg1262
03-01-2008, 10:09 AM
Yep.....grew up over in Indiana but wife and job has me living in the friendly confines of Delhi. Heading over to Fly and Shot this morning / afternoon for the seminar on Brookville. Mostly just to feed the Jones a little.