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-   -   Hot Water release on the Hiwassee (http://littleriveroutfitters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11154)

rainshaker 08-21-2008 09:08 PM

Hot Water release on the Hiwassee
 
"Most of this week TVA has been spilling extremely warm water over the top of Apalachia Dam on the Hiwassee River, potentially endangering the trout fishery. A TVA spokesman says the breakdown of one of two generators forced them to spill water over the top of the dam. He says however that the generator was repaired Wednesday afternoon and operation is back to normal."

also stated in the article: "...one of our supervisors is really concerned about what the warm water temperatures and low oxygen could do to the fish."

...I don't think it requires a supervisor to figure that one out :)

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_133655.asp

waterwolf 08-21-2008 10:43 PM

I agree and it is actions like this that prove to me that TVA has lost touch with the environmental impacts of some of their actions over the last 3 years.

The Elk River is about dead due to their generating regimes.

The Holston Trout fishery just got whacked again as temps have climbed into the middle 70's.

Now the Hiwassee takes a bath, because they are too ignorant to NOT SPILL 85 degree water down a coldwater fishery. Why that seemed like a good idea is beyond me, but would it have killed them to scale back generation for a few days while they got things fixed in order to save the fishery.

golfballs03 08-22-2008 11:41 AM

So was the lake so full that they had to dump it over the top while they were repairing the generator or was the water level below way too low? I don't get why they had to dump any

tennswede 08-22-2008 11:47 AM

I don't want this to turn in to an argument but we do need to realize that TVA doesn't exist to cater to our need to fish, raft, recreate etc. This is a side effect for our benefit. TVA is federal agency which has a mandate to establish flood control and to generate hydroelectric power.

I do know some people want to put politics in to this and I do regret that some streams were destroyed in the process of flood control and cheap power. The era of cheap electric is over and we are lucky who can enjoy trout fishing on some of these rivers. A few of these rivers wouldn't support a single trout if it wasn't for TVA. Clinch, and Holston prime examples.

It is currently very popular to trash anything TVA or government does, but put in to a reality perspective, they have a mandate and a rate of return to produce. If TVA mainly catered to a few trout fisherman and some rafters they would have to shut down.

waterwolf 08-22-2008 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfballs03 (Post 57048)
So was the lake so full that they had to dump it over the top while they were repairing the generator or was the water level below way too low? I don't get why they had to dump any

Heck no the lake is not too full, not even close. The reason they dumped is to make up for the one unit that went offline. Rather then just suck up the loss of outflow for a couple of days they idiotically spilled 88 degree water down the river system.

waterwolf 08-22-2008 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennswede (Post 57050)
I don't want this to turn in to an argument but we do need to realize that TVA doesn't exist to cater to our need to fish, raft, recreate etc. This is a side effect for our benefit. TVA is federal agency which has a mandate to establish flood control and to generate hydroelectric power.

This is incorrect to a degree, TVA was established under a much different mission then how they operate now. They used to be focused on the environmental and recreational aspects of their operations in conjunction with flood control and hydro to help fund their organization. In 1993 everything changed when the heads of TVA changed and they became super focused on Hydro $$$ and some other stuff.

It has only gotten worse. 3 years ago new legislation was passed which requires them to have 25,000 continuous CFS coming into Chattanooga. This completely derailed any other concerns they had, other then sellng off power to make more $$$. Now The Elk River has been virtually destroyed and the Holston below Cherokee as well as the French Broad below Douglas are taking a hit.

TVA used to be super focused on the ecology of their system. Hence weir dams, hub baffles, and oxygen infusion systems. All of these are found on Cherokee, Norris, and South Holston. All were designed to maintain min. flows and increase DO. There have been zero new projects of these types in over 10 years and none in the future are planned.


Quote:

Originally Posted by tennswede (Post 57050)
I do know some people want to put politics in to this and I do regret that some streams were destroyed in the process of flood control and cheap power. The era of cheap electric is over and we are lucky who can enjoy trout fishing on some of these rivers. A few of these rivers wouldn't support a single trout if it wasn't for TVA. Clinch, and Holston prime examples.

Yes the era of cheap power is over, as highlighted by the front page of the paper yesterday, a 27% increase in 2008 alone. What we should be asking as consumers and customers of TVA is how they can turn a deaf ear on the demise of fisheries and ecologies and jack up their rates. In other words what are all of us sportsmen and non-sportsmen getting in return.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennswede (Post 57050)
A few of these rivers wouldn't support a single trout if it wasn't for TVA. Clinch, and Holston prime examples.

Try South Holston, Watauga, Ft. Patrick Henry, and Hiwasee as well. What many fail to notice or care about is that entire native populations were wiped out because of the damming of these river systems. TVA created coldwater fisheries and they used to think it was their responsibility to manage them to the best of their potential.

Hans I know you aren't from here and may not be aware of this, but do some research on the Little T and the atrocity that TVA committed by damming a perfectly healthy river system for nothing more then residential development. One of the great tragedies in this area and one which TVA and their supporters should be embarrassed to have on their record.

Embrace TVA all you like, and there was a time when they did a lot of great things for the system, but in the last few years they have totally lost focus and our fisheries are suffering because of their greed.

You are right that a handful of us and some paddlers have an uphill battle but if we want to maintain the quality of our fisheries we have to speak out about this stuff and do so now. We cannot just rollover or we will get steamrolled and our fisheries will suffer the brunt of the weight.

tennswede 08-22-2008 01:28 PM

I was waiting for that one, Yes I am an outsider but it is irrelevant. I know all about the Tellico project and I can even put Hungary on a map.

Anyway, What you fail to understand is the fact that before TVA these rivers were not trout fisheries. If we relly want to be stewards of the environment we should breach the dams and everything will revert to warm water fisheries. Your points are moot because you are facing an artificially created fishery. I love the trout fishing as much as you do and yes I think the Tellico project was a work of politicians but still, the rivers we are talking about were not trout rives except Little T.

kytroutman 08-22-2008 02:02 PM

You can't have electricity at some of the lowest rates in the nation without generating schedules. Without the cheap electricity, you don't have the majority of the business existing in the South or looking to locate in the South. TVA was the selling point for Mercedes, BMW, Toyota and KIA to locate their manufacturing plants in the South. Without those plants, a dismal employment picture would be even worse. Also, consider the fact that the generation schedule is due to the increased demand for electricity in other areas. How much generation could be reduced if every house in East TN would turn the A/C off for a while and just open the windows?

waterwolf 08-22-2008 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennswede (Post 57054)
I was waiting for that one, Yes I am an outsider but it is irrelevant. I know all about the Tellico project and I can even put Hungary on a map.

Anyway, What you fail to understand is the fact that before TVA these rivers were not trout fisheries. If we relly want to be stewards of the environment we should breach the dams and everything will revert to warm water fisheries. Your points are moot because you are facing an artificially created fishery. I love the trout fishing as much as you do and yes I think the Tellico project was a work of politicians but still, the rivers we are talking about were not trout rives except Little T.

I was not making light of the fact you were from somewhere else merely probing to see if you were familiar with the project that is all.

I clearly said your second statement in my post, you must have missed it. For me and what I like to do, it would be fine with me if there wasn't another trout stocked in our rivers and they were converted back to warmwater fishers. People like me can only imagine what it would be like to have that much, that size, and that many more super rich smallmouth centric fisheries.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennswede (Post 57054)
I think the Tellico project was a work of politicians but still, the rivers we are talking about were not trout rives except Little T.

Hans this statement is completely false. The Little Tennessee was not a "trout river", it was another tailwater just like the Clinch, Holston, Hiwasee, Caney Fork, Elk, Duck, South Holston, Watauga, Ft Patrick Henry, and Cumberland. No difference except TVA slapped a dam up which doesn't even have generators, has no real means of flood control, and was only erected to created hundreds of miles of shoreline for development. The Little T was another artificially created trout stream from a TVA dam.

tennswede 08-22-2008 02:56 PM

Kytroutman,

exactly what I try to say. As much as I love the tailwater trout fishery and I do not agree with the Tellico project, but other than that I'm fine with it. TVA has to operate in order to produce power for the ever increasing demand. Yes, I'm an outsider and I have added to the demand, but like it or not if no one wanted to live here we will have to revert to the old ways. I'm not saying that is necessarily bad but you won't have the amenities and luxuries we have now. My in-laws are from eastern KY and they still live there. They still don't have the jobs and infrstructure that we have. I know some of those people like it that way but they sure have a hard time to make a living. Tobaccoo and "that other crop" is just not doing it for them anymore.

Development and such is a two edged sword but I get a little tired of so called experts who think that they have all the answers as long as everyone go along with them. Enjoy what we got and try to see the positive in TVA. I know the rate increase is going to hurt business and residents a lot but TVA has a budget and mandate to follow.

I'm sorry but I can't just sit idle when people on the one hand says, I just don't understand when someone is complaining about a coldwater fishery being destroyed and then says that TVA damaged a bunch of warmwater fisheries. Don't forget that little t was not a natural fishery either. All trout in this part of the world is exotics. Brown, Rainbow, Lake, and you name it.

Brook Trout is not even a trout. It's a char and I seriously doubt Little T supported many of those in it's lower reaches where Tellico is nowadays.


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