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-   -   Don't Ask, Don't Tell???? (http://littleriveroutfitters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7128)

littlerivermike 10-05-2006 10:05 AM

Don't Ask, Don't Tell????
 
“Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”???

During the past several years we have all observed significant increases in the number of fishermen in the Park. * Certain streams, (or certain sections of streams), have experienced tremendous increases in the number of rods on the water. *These streams are the ones that receive regular (aka constant) write-ups on various web sites and in newsletters. * You know which streams these are.

“Joe and his buddy caught 150 fish, all over 12 inches, before lunch, on the lower prong of the Big ElkTree River.” * Next weekend, and probably for rest of the year, you will see that section of the Big ElkTree packed! * When its not packed, even on water that has been good to you in the past – it’s not so good now. * You never caught 150, but for years you would always get 20 or more, many of them keeping size. * Now you feel lucky if you get half a dozen on the ol’ ElkTree.

I understand that packed rivers are good for commerce. * Shops, guides, hotels, restaurants and gas stations all see a short term benefit from high numbers of fishermen in the Park. *Some even believe that constant high pressure on these streams is good for the fish. * *I don’t doubt that these people want to encourage more people to fish the Park.

My question is this. *What ever happened to time honored tradition that fishermen wouldn’t even tell their mother where the good water was? *In today’s internet world, regular write-ups on how good the fishing is on the lower prong of the Big ElkTree River will get that water slammed!! * Maybe that’s OK. *

David Knapp 10-05-2006 10:41 AM

Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell????
 
Great topic LRMike...I think you answered your own question to some extent, the part about it being a time-honored tradition. Many fisherman today are relatively new to the sport and probably have not had anyone to show them the great traditions associated with our pastime. I myself am almost totally self-taught except for one half day guide trip I took to learn to fish nymphs. I never had anyone to teach me fly fishing growing up. When I was first getting started a few years ago, I would ask questions on boards such as this and usually didn't get too many responses and wondered why no one was very friendly ::), now that I've had time to learn more about this great sport, I understand why people were somewhat tight-lipped. I think it is all a matter of education for the most part. When people realize how precious the resource is, they will be much quicker to protect it to the utmost. A lot of people just don't know any better...

I believe some discretion should be used by everyone when giving advice, stream reports, etc. However, people are going to find out about our water, so give some advice. Tell them were your favorite road-side stream is were you can see the traffic rolling by all day and tourists will stop and take your picture. If they know what they are doing, they'll still catch fish and think it was the greatest place ever. Save those remote streams that you have to hike several miles to for them to discover on their own. 8-)

So, I know of this brookie stream absolutely full of 10-12 inch brookies, no joke! It is in the vicinity of.......... ;D

justfishing 10-05-2006 10:46 AM

Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell????
 
LRM,

Hopefully in this age of the internet the fishermen will also be able to learn more about the 1,000's of miles of great trout water within a 50 mile radius of inside and outside the Park, and take some of the pressure off that Big Elk Tree River. *;)


justfishing
<'))))><

kylemc 10-05-2006 11:29 AM

Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell????
 
:-X :-X :-X :-X ;)

Kyle

tennswede 10-05-2006 12:36 PM

Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell????
 
This stuff has been beaten to death in the past and I have taken many abusive comments and emails over the years regarding this. I have fished for 30 years and fly fished for 15. I don't consider myself uneducated and I know my fly fishing history more than most. I just want to say that people who believe in witholding information are kidding themselves. Fishing and flyfishing is actually experiencing a decline. License sales are down in most states. If revenues are down the resources to protect and conserve are not there and this will ultimately have a trickle down effect and it will lead to taxpayers not wanting to spend money on conservation and wildlife. If PETA and others get more clout fishing will eventually be outlawed. I guess what I am trying to say is that I take an opposite view on this and respectfully disagree. I am in no way trying to start an argument just expressing my opposing view. I know for a fact that in Europe the governments have started to question fishing and if it is even ethical beacuse people have left the sport and the public have been persuaded to believe it to be a relic from the past which should be abolished. Just my 2 cents worth.


tbryan 10-05-2006 12:54 PM

Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell????
 
I used to be like littlerivermike and not tell where the really good holes are but after fishing for a while I realized I could catch fish, where people where that morning, you just have to figure out what the fish like. It is kind of like a challenge to me and that is what I love about flyfishing. Someone taught me so I figured I would help someone else out along the way. But don't get me wrong I do like to keep some of my peaceful and less crowded spots a secret jus to smell the fresh air and feel like it is just me and the wild.

Vern 10-05-2006 01:19 PM

Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell????
 
I have been fly fishing in the GSMNP for about 5yrs now. The First couple of years were rough, I would catch one or two trout per trip. I have improved my skills enough now that I catch several small trout per trip. Having said this, I started fishing the road sides spots then moved up some of the streams that have be suggested to me over the years, But now I am at the point where part of the fun is exploring new places and learning to read the waters. The general suggestions have helped me get started, but now I pefer looking on a topo map and plan a day hike to remote back country. I pefer to find the honey holes myself. I will ask for general information, which I feel does not hurt. But I want to find the back country honey holes on my own.

kylemc 10-05-2006 01:28 PM

Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell????
 
Quote:

I used to be like littlerivermike and not tell where the really good holes are but after fishing for a while I realized I could catch fish, where people where that morning, you just have to figure out what the fish like. It is kind of like a challenge to me and that is what I love about flyfishing. *Someone taught me so I figured I would help someone else out along the way. But don't get me wrong I do like to keep some of my peaceful and less crowded spots a secret jus to smell the fresh air and feel like it is just me and the wild.

Well said

Emp912 10-05-2006 03:36 PM

Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell????
 
I am new to fly fishing but have fished my whole life. I know in more populated areas those secret Honey Holes are more protected but everyone I know from bass fishing shares information. They may not tell everything about how they caught them and where but they do make suggestions.

Fly Fishing is a little different. Without information given on this board and given at LRO I would have quit already. People are little more tight lipped but most I have encountered are still willing to share and help. I appreciate that.

Anyway most people new to the sport (Including myself) are not very likely to get to far off the beaten path. I think sharing information is a good thing but also keeping a little spot special to yourself off the beaten path is good too.

littlerivermike 10-05-2006 04:16 PM

Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell????
 
Several have misread or misinterpreted my post. *Allow me to try again.

1) Can’t speak for anywhere else…..but by my observation, fly fishing in the Park has grown dramatically. *25 years ago it was rare to see a single fisherman on Park waters on any day. *Now I can see 20+ a day in the Park.
2) The largest percentage of increase is on 5 stream sections, all within sight or short walk of a Park road, easy to find, easy to get to. *Not surprisingly, they all shared a recent past history of good fishing.
3) There is a substantial difference between telling a friend where the fishing has been good, (every fisherman has done this and will continue to do this), and on the other hand, telling 7,000,000 people where same specific “hot spots” are in the Park.
4) That there may be the possibility that with so many people so willing and so able to tell so many other people where the “hot spots” are….that those spots, those 5 streams….could receive a disproportionately large part of this increased pressure. *
5) That maybe all this increase pressure on the same few miles of the 1000, could result in degradation in the fishing experience on those same streams. *And as I said…maybe that’s OK. *

These are more personal observations (ponderings if you will) than hard line positions. *If I have a point, and I’m not sure I do, it is that I will continue to tell my friends about my good days and where I have found fish….I just hope they decide not to tell their 7,000,000 internet buddies.


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