I've not fished either of those flies Lynn, but Kevin has another good all around, nymph pattern that seems to work well of trout and smallies. The "big nasty". It does not really look like anything in particulair but has all the right components. I like it as a "heggy ' pattern in black and have used it in a rust pattern as a molting crayfish. tied with lead wire running parrallel with the hook shank on each side, it sinks well and is a flat shape.
Another good "nymph" pattern I've had success with is those giant #6 or #4 beadhead prince nymphs with a red hackle collar that Jim Parks and Jack like to use for Yellowstone. I had some left over from a trip a few years ago and added some rubber legs behind the collar and "wah-lah" , a new smallmouth pattern.