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Thread: Heddon vs South Bend

  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    55

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    The nice think about bamboo rods is that every one has their own ideas. Both your statements on Grangers and Heddons are wrong. The higher grade Grangers had the strips for each rod taken from the same culm of bamboo.The lower grades used strips that were randomly taken. The amount of guides did increase on the higher models but the reel seats were the same. As for Heddons you must know that the model #20 and up were not the same as the lower grades. The cane was hand selected and each section was gone over by the man responsible for that rod.Again as I am sure you are aware the # 20 and up were made in the "hand made department" So there is a big difference in how both higher grade Grangers and Heddons are made other than the number of guides. I am not sure how many rods you have refinished or restored but if you must know that you cannot put an over coat of varnish on a Heddon.Any bamboo rod should and will cast a number of different line sizes. What a person uses more often is how they cast not how the rod casts. Come to Townsend on Sat of the of the Trout fest/bamboo blast and we can discuss it in much greater detail if you wish. Oh I was also wondering how many rods you have made not assembled?
    Last edited by canerod; 05-04-2009 at 03:08 PM. Reason: added more

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Livingston TN
    Posts
    18

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    The overall civility of this thread seems to be going down hill

    Cane rod if I have said something to offend you it was not intentional, but I will not take part in an on-line argument. If we have the ability to communicate through PM on this board I can't find, and since I am unwilling to post my home # on the internet.
    I accept your invitation to Troutfest. I just gotta call in sick You and I can fish, talk, agree , disagree , and then fish some more. Like you said everyone can have their own ideas that is not only the beauty of Bamboo but of fishing in general.


    ......Tentwing

  3. #13
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    55

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    I agree tentwing there should not be an argument and you have not upset me in any way. I also looked for a PM choice but as you said there is none. When someone is looking for help and is given an answer that is incorrect I do not see problem with trying to maybe correct it. Your statement that the only difference between the high end Grangers and Heddons is the ferrules and components just not true.I will add no more and again no hard feelings. As I said I will be in the classroom all day Saturday working on problem ferrules for people. I thank you for the fishing invite but I do not fish in the Park. Just introduce yourself to the fat balding blonde old man(me) dave

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tentwing View Post
    Artic Grayling;

    I may be wrong. I have not read extensively on Southbends, and while i have no expirience with the #323 I do own a #346, 359, #77 and a #290. My #290 is a 5 weight medium action and has a crisper action than my other three. The #77 is 7 weight while the #346 is a 5/6 and the #359 is a 6/7 weight and they are what I consider a medium slow for cane.

    All of my expirience comes from singlebuilt rods. Oh and BTW If you see a Doublebuilt rod out there that wont break the bank call me So far I have loved everything Wes Jordan ever worked on.

    Good thread goin here,....Tentwing
    I have to rely on reading since there aren't a whole lot of bamboo rods being used in the frozen wasteland! We are lucky in that we do have a local rod builder in Carlin.

    What really matters in these rods is what works for you. I think you just have to try different lines on vintage bamboo and fiberglass rods until you find one that you like. And that can vary across two or three line weights. I think that my 346 is marked for a HDH or DT6 line. To me that means that a WF7 line should also work for me.

    I do watch those double built rods. I just haven't been the high bidder on one yet! I've bid on a few 290s too without winning one. Now I have a W&M Victory 7030 so I probably won't chase them any more.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Paducah, KY
    Posts
    15

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    Hello Gents,

    First off, I'm looking forward to seeing everyone at the Bamboo Bash and Troutfest.

    Maybe I can clarify some of the facts for you.

    Regarding South Bend, the rod model numbers are important for determining the "action" of the rod. South Bend didn't refer to "tapers" in their catalog - probably decided that saying "action" of the rod would mean more to anglers. Here's how it worked with the model numbers. I'll quote this next paragraph from my Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook:
    "South Bend rod model numbers are abit confusing, but there is logic to the system: each rod "grade" or "quality level" was made in three actions; Wet Fly, or Trout action,
    Bass Action, and Dry Fly Action. [These are South Bends' terms.] The model number designates the grade or quality and the series number represents the type of action. For example, #159 is Trout Action, #59 is Bass Action, and #359 is Dry Fly Action. All of these models have the same wraps, hardware, number of guides and other specifications - only the taper is different."
    "Usually the models follow this format: the 100 series = lightest (Trout) action,
    300 series = medium fast (Dry Fly) action,
    and the two digit model was the stiffest and fastest = Bass action. The two piece models use a 200 series number ( #260. #290 ) are two-piece rods and have a Dry Fly action.

    I hope that clarifies the South Bend numbering system

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Paducah, KY
    Posts
    15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tentwing View Post
    Dave;


    For instance As I'm sure you know all Grangers were basically the same taper they only differed in ferrule size and components when determining the difference in their highest end rod (The Registered) and their dimestore models (the Lake and Stream)

    .......Tentwing
    For the sake of accuracy, the Stream & Lake was not a Granger, but a pure Wright & McGill and was never marked as a Granger rod. (It was the same as the Champion except that it had no tipping wraps and used nylon instead of silk. These two minor variations were out of spec for the Granger designation per the agreement between W&M and Mrs. May Granger Stocks.) And, just as an FYI, no Granger rods were ever sold in a dime store or anything approaching that level of marketing.

    Regarding the tapers,Tentwing, you are right - the tapers were the same. Granger referred to each taper as a "model". Thus an eight foot rod was called model 8040, meaning 8.0 feet, 4.0 ounces (without reelseat). An 8.5 foot 4.5 ounce rod was called the model 8642, there were several nine footers with the most popular being the 9050.

    The names such as "Special, Aristocrat, Favorite, DeLuxe" etc were referred to as "Grades" by Granger. Except for the ultra-rare Registered rods, and the bottom of the line Champion, every Granger rod used the same reel seat and ferrules. The blanks were each inspected for node placement, cane beauty and overall quality. The better grade rods got the best cane, more guides and fancier wrap patterns. (Yes, the Premier is an exception to the fancier wraps.) DeLuxe, Premier and Registered rods were made from a single culm specially selected for its high quality. (GG era only ).

    To complete a Goodwin Granger rod's official designation, the rod would be referred to as "G" for Granger, "C, V, S, A, F, D, or P" for the grade name and finally the model number. That means that GS8642 = Granger Special 8.5', 4.5oz - and so on.

    Although Heddon rods also hold a special place in my heart, I'd take ANY Granger over ANY Heddon every time.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    15

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    Cool! I have good taste (Grangers) and didn't even know it!!!!

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Boone County, Kentucky
    Posts
    12

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    Hi FRW,
    I an a nooby here but I own and fish a number of different bamboo rods. I own and fish Hardy's(English), Heddon's, Orvis's, South Bend's, Sharps(British), H&I and have owned Montagues and Shakespeares. I can tell you that most South Bend rods I have owned, refurbished/refinished and fished with are **** for tough! Not often the most delicate casting but very sturdy. Most of the surviving SB rods are from the 50's and the glues they used then were of a more modern composition than glues from previous years. )(Paducah Michael might know more about that). My best SB rod is an 8.5 ft, 3pc #323 with fine tips and casts a wonderful 5 weight line. My next favroite SB rod is a #59-81/2 foot Bass rod, its great for stream/lake bass and casting streamers for trout in high water or lakes. Both real nice rods. If you can refurbish/restore the rod you get so much the better. I prefer (just MY opinion) SB rods over most others for good old fishing tools!

    I love ALL Bamboo rods for their history and nostalga but if you need a good fishing "tool" with SB you cant go wrong.
    (PS a lite, ie: 5wt SB 290 would be a great rod too!)
    Harry

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