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Thread: bait fishermen on a park stream

  1. #31
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    Question for Crockett and other who make it to the local meetings

    Did any discussion come up about poaching?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Streamhound View Post
    Question for Crockett and other who make it to the local meetings

    Did any discussion come up about poaching?
    Hey streamhound I have a friend name Kevin who covers the meetings for wbir and he is an avid hiker/backpacker too which is why I know the details of that particular meeting. I don't know if poaching was talked about but will ask him. He said the same idea of a backcountry camping fee was discussed back in the late 90s and they got some heat over the idea which is why it was dismissed back then. The thing that is concerning is that they would be bringing stuff like that up again so recently.

  3. #33
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    Jim,
    I wasn't talking about an entry fee. I'm aware of all the issues and past promises about that. I was thinking specifically of a park fishing permit type of thing with the funding going to fisheries and enforcement.

    No way would I expect a person to have to pay to visit a cemetary. I do like the fact access to the park is free (which I think all National Parks should be free because, after all, the parks belong to us.)

    I don't think a fishing permit would cause unnecessary howling and could be beneficial to the park fisheries department. I'd gladly pay a nominal fee for a park fishing permit and outside of poachers, I don't see where it would be a problem for the people who's ancestors once lived on the land.

    Jeff

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Casada View Post
    jeffnles1--While I wouldn't mind paying an annual fee, even up to $50 or so, rest assured it would be greeted with howls of protest from folks on both sides of the Park. Their argument would be (and it would have considerable validity) that they were promised free use of and access to the Park in perpetuity.

    Another side of this issue, and it goes to poaching as well as other matters, is the pervasive feeling, especially on the N. C. side of the Park, that Park bureaucrats have consistently failed to live up to their promises. There's more than a little truth in that, and a key example comes with maintenance of and access to cemeteries. While the North Shore Road agreement never mentioned cemeteries, both TVA and the Park assured folks that loved ones buried in the Park would be properly remembered and respected. Yet in recent years in particular the Park has done anything but a stellar job in getting people to the more remote sites (huge problems on Hazel Creek, for example). They also do not maintain sites very well, IMO.

    Just last week I walked up to the Mingus Cemetery as I returned to my truck after an evening's fishing on Luftee. It was badly in need of weeding, mowing, and a general clean up (and this is a site that is very easily accessible). The last time I visited it the cemetery which lies just a bit downstream from the Bone Valley campsite on Hazel Creek was a mess. Sam Macdonald, a regular visitor to this forum, may be able to offer more insight. He probably knows more about graves in the Park than anyone.

    My point is simply this. A certain portion of locals feel a lingering sense of grievance in connection with the Park. It doesn't in any way justify poaching (and that involves far more than using bait to catch trout and keeping too many trout; namely, game and things like "sang"), but it does give n'er do wells a sort of backdoor justification for shameful behavior. In other words, not only through neglect connected with lack of funding but through outright failure to do what has promised, the Park is sometimes its own worst enemy.

    To be sure, there's reason aplenty to expect folks to do their share to look after the graves of their ancestors, but even if fully willing there's the issue of access. Maybe the great poet of the Yukon, Rovert Service, put it best in a rew words: "A promise made is a debt unpaid." The Park has log had unpaid debts.
    I don't know whether this will make sense to many of you, but the lingering sense of being wronged is very real in small communities on the edge of the Park as well as with some descendants of those who were forcibly removed. Incidentally, my father, who will celebrate his 101st birthday this weekend, does not feel at all aggrieved. He thinks the Park was a great blessing, although he also feels that Park officials have often created public relations nightmares for themselves.
    Jim Casada
    www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com

  4. #34
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    Trip--I totally concur. I follow national affairs quite closely, but right now I am thoroughly disgusted, more so than any time in my life, with our purported "leaders" in both parties.
    Jim Casada

  5. #35
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    jefnless1--Gotcha. I misinterpreted what you wrote, although it was clear enough. However, I can assure you that the howls of protest I mentioned would still come, because folks would say they had already paid to fish North Carolina (or Tennessee waters) and that those waters were part of the respective states long before they were a national park. Personally, I wouldn't mind.

    Incidentally, I am happy to report I was actually checked this afternoon. But there's a big BUT. I originally headed up to Luftee about 4:00 intent on fishing for a few hours. I hadn't been in the creek five minutes when it came down muddy--not dingy but flat-out muddy. It wasn't coming from Bradley Fork or Toe String (I drove up to see), so it must have absolutely poured up around Newfound Gap.

    I headed back to Bryson City and decided, at the last minute, to spend an hour or two in the state part of Deep Creek. I did, although at 73 degrees is is way too warm. I only caught five or six fish in an area I'll often catch 40 or 50 in the springtime. As I was leaving the creek I saw a state game warden on the bank. I climbed out to him, showed him my lifetime license, and we talked about Park poaching problems a bit. In a diplomatic fashion (he's a local fellow) he said that it obviously wasn't a Park priority and that it wasn't like in was in the 1960s and 1970s.

    He also said something very interesting. As some of you may know, North Carolina Wildlife Resource Officers have authority in the Park, and this fellow often checks anglers in the area around the Deep Creek campground. He said he would venture to guess he checked more people in the Park on Deep creek than any Park rangers. I found that quite interesting.

    Incidentally, I didn't know about this authority until a year ago, and when the same fellow told me he had it I was sufficiently dubious to contact folks in Raleigh. I knew the right contacts thanks to work writing on the NCWRC in the past. Sure enough, a state wildlife officer has full authority, at least when it comes to fishing matters, in the Park.
    Jim Casada
    www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com

  6. #36
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    The rangers love to check people at the Y. Don't have to walk far to get some tickets written.

  7. #37
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    The Park is federal land....its waters are exempt from trout stamp fees from both NC and Tenn....I would much rather pay a standard, flat fee for fishing these waters to the Park for use in its fishery than pay it to either of the states...

  8. #38
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    Rog 1--When it comes to fees for trout stamps, so would I (although I hold a lifetime N. C. non-resident license and am, in effect, covered from now on), but when it comes to certain aspects of jurisdiction the dividing line between state and federal, in this case, is blurred. Federal land, yes, but if you haven't done so check my previous post about N. C. game wardens having full authority in the Park. I don't really understand this but there's no doubt such is the case.
    Jim Casada

  9. #39
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    Jim...I understood what you said about the game wardens...and that is not the only line that is blurred...the vendors at the campgrounds are now charging state sales tax on purchases...again this is federal property...a sales tax is not charged on campsite rentals and there is no sales tax on military bases...you can fish in the Park cheaper with a NC license than with a TN. license....for years now I have been purchasing an annual NC license than having to pay out more money for several short term non-res. licenses from TN....that's why I think a single permit for the park that would benefit the fishery would be OK....

  10. #40
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    Jim. Based on your discussion with the NC warden, what you are saying is that if we witness a fishing violation in the park we need to call the respective state's wildlife division for enforcement, rather than call the park?

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