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Thread: Remote Smoky Mountains Brook Trout Waters

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Rock Hill, SC
    Posts
    992

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    benintenn--Don't hesitate to ask about specific campsites and streams. There are pros and cons on this matter, and I'd like to think I've given them about as much thought as anyone. The flat-out truth of the matter is that there are NO secrets in the Park. Moreover, the streams which might really be fragile are, for the most part, at such a remove from the nearest road that over-pressuring them isn't a problem.
    I once worried about maintaining secrets but eventually realized that anyone willing to do even a moderate amount of research can get basics (and likely much more) on about any stream. For that matter, my book covers every stream of any size in the Park.

    As for the map you mention, it is public record and indeed is shown in my book.

    With that off my chest, I will add that I cherish solitude and really prefer not to see other fishermen. But the places I find solitude are back of beyond and I don't figure many will exert the effort necessary to get there. If they do, they are my kind of people and I'm not only willing but happy to share what I know with them.

    In other words, in my view you can and should ask questions. I for one won't get all worked up, and if you are worried about getting hammered, I don't think you should be. What I see in this thread is a congenial difference of opinion, and that's what makes this site a delight (it's the only one on which I post with any regularity). Seldom do things get abrasive, and if they do, the most gracious Ms. Paula will tell all of us to shut our cyperspace pie holes. And no one wants to incur her wrath.

    Finally, in a moment of self-serving marketing, I'd encourage you to buy my book if you don't already have it. Also, if you have specific questions and still feel uncomfortable asking them here, e-mail me (you can reach me through my web sit).

    Jim Casada
    www.jimcasadaoutdoors.com

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    33

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    Ben,

    I believe the results of the brookie rehab project can be found online...I seem to remember seeing the report on a government website...but for the life of me I can't remember where. Perhaps Jim can provide direction.

    Regarding the naming of streams on the 'net.....I'd suggest one other method of finding a place to fish....and this is argueably better that any other. Post up a request to join other fishermen on their backcountry forays. Offer to buy breakfast, drive to the trailhead, etc. Get connected with folks on this website, attend functions, develop a repore. Not only will you learn where the productive water is...you'll quickly learn techniques, fly patterns, etc....and make a few friends in the meantime. It's a trade-of....you seem to be well versed in backpacking so you would have something to contribute as well.

    I'm going on a three or four day backcountry trip in the Park next month. You're more than welcome to join me. We will be fishing brookie water.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Lawrenceville, Ga
    Posts
    113

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    Ben,

    I wouldn't worry about being jumped on. Ask away. If I had the info, I would answer privately, not in the post for all the world to see. For me, it's not the sharing of the info, it's the forum in which it gets shared. As for there being no secret streams, as the saying goes, "You don't know until you know." It's a secret to someone. Just say'n


    But anyway, I'm out of here. I have the 3wt packed and I'm headed up to Smokies to fish a few of my favs. If you see a blue CRV from GA say hello.
    John

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Lenoir City, TN
    Posts
    990

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattblick View Post
    ...

    On a separate note, to JoeFred: how far down (campsite number) does your Upper Deep creek map cover? I am leaning towards staying at site 58 or 59 when I head down there in three weeks.
    mattblick, yes the Upper Deep Creek map does cover campsites 58 & 59. Rivers Edge Outfitters in the Cherokee area should have this map when you come down, but you may want to call and have them put you one back. I'm certain Joe, Steve and the others would appreciate your stopping in.
    “Joe” Fred Turner
    Southern Appalachian Stream Maps sasMaps.com
    Formerly SmokyStreams.com

  5. #15

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    There's no sense jumping anyone's case. The reality is our state land-grant universities uniformly publish scientific studies on some of the most remote water in every state. I wrote the "Headwaters" section of American Angler for several years; while I certainly didn't highlight any small water, I sure did turn a lot of it up in my searches for new rivers to talk about.

    I located my favorite Georgia brookie stream using a UGA fisheries department study.

    Truth is, Jim Casada is right: anyone willing to hike to the way back of beyond just to catch brook trout is not out there to harm the resource.

    Zach

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Bloomington, IN
    Posts
    67

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    I can see both sides of the argument. I think the lack of easy access to many of the "secret" streams in the park helps keep the crowds out, and only the dedicated actually make it out there. I'm not so worried about those people.

    On the other hand, if you know of some great hidden spot a quarter mile off a road with easy access, I wouldn't blame someone for not advertising it. I wouldn't. Popular spots get trashed.

    Zach, shouldn't you be working on some podcasts?

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    395

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    I learned so much from this board when I started fishing the GSMNP. But I spent alot of time on the easy acess streams trying the techniques I learned on the board, and I have fished some streams because they were posted on the board. Now that I do alot of outtings with MTFF I am a little more selective about who I give very specific information to. I have taken several fishermen to some of my favorite streams to only be disappointed by thier stream etiquette and lack of respect for the fishery. I even had one guy get upset because I was catching fish and he wasn't, and I finally had enough and turned and said " if you would keep your big feet out of the stream and don't stand in the middle of the run looking like a flag pole maybe a dumb fish will eat your fly."
    So I guess where I am coming from is that most will not have the skill to make an impact on the fishery, but thay can ruin your day if they are in front of you. so there are some streams I cring when they are mentioned on the board. Spend the money and buy Jim's book. Put the time in to learn the skills needed. And most of the better GSNP fishermen will help out by email.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Lenoir City, TN
    Posts
    990

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    Quote Originally Posted by benintenn View Post
    Since the sample was done by the NPS, is this information public record? Could anyone call up the park and get this info?
    benintenn, Jim answered correctly that this is indeed public record. Just to elaborate a bit... I shared with Matt Kulp of Fisheries Management my plans to produce maps of the park showing fish species and asked if he could provide me information on the results of the sampling. He kindly obliged with the only condition being that I credit the National Park Service for providing the data. He was willing to provide me pretty much all the data they had, but because I wanted to somewhat earn the right to the limited information I desired, I asked that he simply provide me a larger version of the map that Jim had reproduced in his great book. It is basically a map of all the steams highlighted with colors depicting the species, BUT WITHOUT the names of any of the streams. I then downloaded the numerous public domain USGS quad maps and one by one identified each stream by name. Now granted, that's a far cry from actually backpacking and boiling drinking water to do research, but I just wanted to point out that on the otherhand, it was not simply a matter of cutting and pasting the information here. And besides that, unlike when we drive across them outside park, there are no signs on the foot bridges naming the streams, nor, IMO, should there be.
    “Joe” Fred Turner
    Southern Appalachian Stream Maps sasMaps.com
    Formerly SmokyStreams.com

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    37

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    I hope you sell a lot of your maps.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Northern Kentucky
    Posts
    1,127

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    Time and time again, we hear from the fisheries biologists, the park service, and others on this board that 1) fishing has no impact on the overall fish populations, and 2) keeping fish is actually good for the stream.

    Now, if fishing has no impact and, indeed, it's good to keep some fish, why all the angst over naming a stream if the increased fishing is going to have no impact?

    It's a paradox that I just can't figure out.

    Jeff

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