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Thread: Otter vs. Trout, who will win out!

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Maryville, TN
    Posts
    740

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    While I very much agree with most of what you say Fishnhunt I will say the park is very much a natural environment. Humans are the only creature that God gave higher intelligence to and we are dominant over all the other creatures because of that. Unfortunately with that higher intelligence we often make mistakes (aka otter reintroduction). But humans have been moving animals from one place to another for thousands of years, killing off some species we didn't like and domesticating still others. If humans moving an animal somewhere or killing off existing animals makes it not a natural environment anymore then all natural evironments were gone thousands of years ago. It may take a few hundred years but the otter thing will balance out as all things do. As smart as we are we can't outsmart God and as much as we like to think we are playing God its intersting to me that no matter what mistakes we make they seem to be washed away with the hand of time or God.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    215

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    Whitefeather, here in Tenn. the "Cites" tag is free, and TWRA are almost always at our sales to tag cats and otters.

    Otter prices were around $100.00 - $200.00 several years back, they wanted the pale ones from West Tn. and farther south. Most of the otter in the mountainous regions are darker and get paler the farther East and West you go. Prices dropped off to about $30.00 and now are on a slight rise, but as you know, there has to be a market demand to bring the traps off the barn walls. Fact is, trappers numbers are declining as with hunters and fishermen. That's why youth programs are so important.

    NAFA only carries about 1/3-1/2 of all fur from the U.S., but they like for trappers to think they are the big dog. Local sales are with "country" buyers, and alot of ours will steal it if they can, not all...... but most.

    The otter market dropped out because of the Dalli LLama and the Chinese, think Peta got to the Dalli LLama and the Chinese was a customes issue. The Chinese couldn't tell the difference between a "sea otter" and a "river otter", you would think the Cites permit would have fixed that. Atleast that was the case when the market fell out.

    I still say trappers are the best management tool that the local agencies have at their disposal, they just need to figure out how to use them and work with them better. Only a small number of folks that trap will target otters and for a limited number of days at that, we all have families and time constraints etc. etc......

    The best thing you guys can do as individuals is to get a local trapper permission on some of these waters, your state trapping org. can help you get in touch with someone near you. If you do so, please ask for one that has good trapping ethics, seems to be a bad apple in every basket these days.

    just my 2 cents...... again

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Bean Blossom, Indiana
    Posts
    359

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    Fishnhunt, Pineman19, Crockett, Knik,

    Thanks guys for your inputs! I think we all pretty much agree. Fishnhunt, I will be in touch with you when the next season is approaching. Email me at rikwhiteffeather@yahoo.com. If I only make enough to break even and pay expenses, that's fine! I am retired and don't have to worry about a time clock anymore.

    All have made excellent points about the otter and the problems lying with man. I have gathered some statistics and this past year, in the 22 more western counties of NC, they were only 74 licensed trappers. Probably not all of them very active at any one time. Other stats on estimated otter numbers forth coming, but it doesn't look at this point, that there are enough trappers (given the success factor) to actually keep up with otter proliferation. Otters usually have between 2 - 5 young each year. Using 3 as an average based on a projected population of 1000 in any given county, and an average of 3. 6 trappers, they're not going to make much of a dent in the population as it goes.

    Thanks for any and all input you have given or can give in the future. Maybe I will not be able to help out all that much with the problem, but, I am willing to try and give it my best. It's a way to give something back for the enjoyment I have had down there in the park and other places in NC.

    The situation is what it is, natural or interfered with, however, I don't think any of us want to live with the consequences, waiting for nature to overcome it alone. She sometimes moves slowly, especially to achieve the balance that once was. Man as a predator must be put back into the equation as part of the solution vs. man being part of the problem. The otter will eventually decimate the fisheries and move on or die off, but then the fish will be gone too, and who's to say that the folly won't be repeated.

    Osiyo my friends
    Whitefeather

    -don't tell me why we can't, tell me how we can.- whitefeather
    _________________________________________________
    Blue skies, warm gentle winds, and trout filled waters to all!
    (Wilu Sgis, Wami Tsenitli Winidis, Ani Tiwuti Wiledi Weitas Do Ali!)

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    170

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    So if the otter eat all the trout and other fish they starve to death. If they cut back on the population of fish as a whole then more aquatic insects survive to reproduce and then there is more biomass in the rivers and streams. The remaining fish have more to eat and grow larger?

  5. #25
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Halifax, VA
    Posts
    778

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    Start tying up some 4-6 inch rainbow imitation streamers, bring your 10 weight, and hang into an otter or two! I'll bet there's no law on the book that would stand up in court against that one, at least not yet.
    <(((>< In tribute to Ben, Duck Hunter extraordinaire, and man's best friend.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    287

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    I already claim that the otters got em while I was retrieving them It sound like a better story than they broke off

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SE Tennessee
    Posts
    644

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    For all you trout anglers, I just thought of something in regard to otter movements- could they spread didymo/rocksnot?
    they can move overland between watersheds
    We have them in the Hiwassee and I have seen them around Towee Creek. I know of one guy who had them swimming around him- made him a bit uneasy as they have sharp teeth.
    Whatever- there is no easy answer or solution.

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